Why and How to Remove the Pain of Veteran Ranks - It's SImple

Jando

Why: Player Separation. Player separation is the number one reason why vet levels need to be removed/adjusted. I've had too many real life friends simply give up because the road is too long to get to max level. The reason why becoming max level is so important in an MMO is because that pool of max level characters is the largest pool of players in the game as compared to each other individual level prior to max level. I would be very surprised if there weren't more vr14 characters than any other single level in the game (other than level 1 , or perhaps VR1). Being max level means that when you are looking for a group you don't have to find a tiny sliver of the population that is the same level as you are, instead there is a large pool of people that have reached end-game content which also happens to be the best content in the game.

How: Simply reduce the XP required to gain each vet rank from 1,000,000 to the amount of xp needed to go from 49-50 (not sure what that is). This essentially just makes vr14 the equivalent of level 63. No other changes to the game would be required. No retroactive granting of vet levels for xp gained prior to the change.

Why not do it....next patch?

OrphanHelgen

I have a better idea. Give the rewards for gadvels gold something people avtually want. Im doing those zones and quests the second time because the reward for me are the skyshards and skillpoint quests. Make cadwells gold reward something unique, a masters weapon or something idk.

7788b14_ESO

Perhaps the cash shop will come out with instant level v14 potions.

pecheckler

The best solution is to merge the PC and console players in a cross-platform game, at least for non-PvP, or even non-group finder based dungeon/trial, content. That would increase the player population a great deal, allowing the megaserver concept to actually make sense. Then we'd have several instances of each veteran zone and the world would feel more populated. Sure there are issues with cross platform (think FFXIV concerns), but they are not all that bad. Not as bad as having a barren game world.

RoyJade

Cross platform server will come with a totally unbalanced problem : addons. Actually, you can't play without addon on hl content and pvp. Console players will not have these addons, so they will not be competitive.

But I totally agree with Geoffrey's idea : make veteran rank faster to gain it's almost necessary, and simply lower the xp needed is the easier idea. No need to re-think veteran stuff, no need to nerf veteran character, no need to change the entire hl content, just lower one parameter and mostly everyone will be happy.

NewBlacksmurf

I don't want to see any cross platform on this game. One platform is a year+ ahead of two others even with account copy for a few

I do like the suggestions of the OP although the silver n gold quests I'd rather see go away if they keep VR levels.
My idea (in another post) is to support what ZOS has started and convert VR into champion levels using the prior exp conversion. This would change the UI cosmetically for all characters, items and NPC's without penalizing anyone.

I like the different approaches that people keep putting out.
Hoping to hear and see more sooner than later

Earthwardzilvox_ESO

It's even worse with the *** vet zones. First off, it's stupid that we're fighting for the enemy faction. Second, those zones have like 10 people in them at a time. Player separation is god damned right. You're essentially alone for the longest portion of the levelling process. It *** sucks.

Jando

I like the idea of slashing the xp to gain veteran ranks instead of removing VR's entirely. With this approach, ZoS doesn't need to worry about the itemization issue, which is probably the biggest obstacle to removing VR.

I bet this could even be done with a simple hotfix.

IMHO....Problem solved.

Seraphyel

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I have a better idea. Give the rewards for gadvels gold something people avtually want. Im doing those zones and quests the second time because the reward for me are the skyshards and skillpoint quests. Make cadwells gold reward something unique, a masters weapon or something idk.

Something unique like the incredibly strong weapon you get after finishing the main story?

ItsGlaive

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

I like the idea of slashing the xp to gain veteran ranks instead of removing VR's entirely. With this approach, ZoS doesn't need to worry about the itemization issue, which is probably the biggest obstacle to removing VR.

I bet this could even be done with a simple hotfix.

IMHO....Problem solved.

Not really, you're still questing through enemy territory, helping them out, with no clear coal or main story to carry you through.

They should do away with Vet entirely, making silver and gold optional questing areas at lvl 50.

Regarding items, they of course would also have to be levelled at 50, it would be a bigger job sure, but certainly possible to do.

Suru

YES, CHAMPION LEVEL WILL BE THE NEW LEVEL OF SEPERATION OMGS!

Endurance

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

Why: Player Separation. Player separation is the number one reason why vet levels need to be removed/adjusted. I've had too many real life friends simply give up because the road is too long to get to max level. The reason why becoming max level is so important in an MMO is because that pool of max level characters is the largest pool of players in the game as compared to each other individual level prior to max level. I would be very surprised if there weren't more vr14 characters than any other single level in the game (other than level 1 , or perhaps VR1). Being max level means that when you are looking for a group you don't have to find a tiny sliver of the population that is the same level as you are, instead there is a large pool of people that have reached end-game content which also happens to be the best content in the game.

How: Simply reduce the XP required to gain each vet rank from 1,000,000 to the amount of xp needed to go from 49-50 (not sure what that is). This essentially just makes vr14 the equivalent of level 63. No other changes to the game would be required. No retroactive granting of vet levels for xp gained prior to the change.

Why not do it....next patch?

actually VR14 is not the equivalent to level 63, its level 50 + veteran rank 14.. just like in anarchy online they have level 200 and shadow level 20

theweakminded

Ooooooooorrr..... people could stop complaining and just lvl. I spent 2hrs grinding mobs and gained a full vet rank. Its not as bad as people make it out to be. More than likely a bunch of people used to modern mmos that never learned what grinding was. Yes it takes effort to hit v14 but it isn't the end of the world. Biggest issue is questing is far slower than just aoe grinding mobs. 2h grinding vs 4hrs questing. Pick your poison and quit crying about it...

Jaxsun

theweakminded wrote: »

Ooooooooorrr..... people could stop complaining and just lvl. I spent 2hrs grinding mobs and gained a full vet rank. Its not as bad as people make it out to be. More than likely a bunch of people used to modern mmos that never learned what grinding was. Yes it takes effort to hit v14 but it isn't the end of the world. Biggest issue is questing is far slower than just aoe grinding mobs. 2h grinding vs 4hrs questing. Pick your poison and quit crying about it...

I have a v14 leveled before the original vet level nerf. I still want the xp needed to gain the next vet rank scaled the same as 1-49 so I don't have to waste my time leveling alts doing content I already did.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Takes maybe a couple weeks of playing to hit max level. If thats too long then too bad.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Jaxsun wrote: »

theweakminded wrote: »

Ooooooooorrr..... people could stop complaining and just lvl. I spent 2hrs grinding mobs and gained a full vet rank. Its not as bad as people make it out to be. More than likely a bunch of people used to modern mmos that never learned what grinding was. Yes it takes effort to hit v14 but it isn't the end of the world. Biggest issue is questing is far slower than just aoe grinding mobs. 2h grinding vs 4hrs questing. Pick your poison and quit crying about it...

I have a v14 leveled before the original vet level nerf. I still want the xp needed to gain the next vet rank scaled the same as 1-49 so I don't have to waste my time leveling alts doing content I already did.

So what you are saying is that it should only take a day or so to hit max level? Because thats all it takes to hit lvl 50. So what you want is everyone to be able to have a max level character in less than 4 days of playing? Really? Because you dont want to be bothered leveling alts?

Maybe the solution is to offer you guys prebuilt characters for crowns instead? How bored will people get if you can max out a character in less than 5 days?

Wolfshead

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

Why: Player Separation. Player separation is the number one reason why vet levels need to be removed/adjusted. I've had too many real life friends simply give up because the road is too long to get to max level. The reason why becoming max level is so important in an MMO is because that pool of max level characters is the largest pool of players in the game as compared to each other individual level prior to max level. I would be very surprised if there weren't more vr14 characters than any other single level in the game (other than level 1 , or perhaps VR1). Being max level means that when you are looking for a group you don't have to find a tiny sliver of the population that is the same level as you are, instead there is a large pool of people that have reached end-game content which also happens to be the best content in the game.

How: Simply reduce the XP required to gain each vet rank from 1,000,000 to the amount of xp needed to go from 49-50 (not sure what that is). This essentially just makes vr14 the equivalent of level 63. No other changes to the game would be required. No retroactive granting of vet levels for xp gained prior to the change.

Why not do it....next patch?

It should have been remove when CP system was be fully integrity to game which should have been done in patch 1.6 but i have to agree with MMORPG.com the ZoS like to put in half done content

Jaxsun

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Jaxsun wrote: »

theweakminded wrote: »

Ooooooooorrr..... people could stop complaining and just lvl. I spent 2hrs grinding mobs and gained a full vet rank. Its not as bad as people make it out to be. More than likely a bunch of people used to modern mmos that never learned what grinding was. Yes it takes effort to hit v14 but it isn't the end of the world. Biggest issue is questing is far slower than just aoe grinding mobs. 2h grinding vs 4hrs questing. Pick your poison and quit crying about it...

I have a v14 leveled before the original vet level nerf. I still want the xp needed to gain the next vet rank scaled the same as 1-49 so I don't have to waste my time leveling alts doing content I already did.

So what you are saying is that it should only take a day or so to hit max level? Because thats all it takes to hit lvl 50. So what you want is everyone to be able to have a max level character in less than 4 days of playing? Really? Because you dont want to be bothered leveling alts?

Maybe the solution is to offer you guys prebuilt characters for crowns instead? How bored will people get if you can max out a character in less than 5 days?

If there was a reason to spend that much time leveling then maybe. But as it stands all the content I want to do is end game so it makes no sense to me. Questing is ok but I get bored with it very quickly especially after having completed the content once already. Therefore leveling alts is very unappealing with the current vet. level system.

darthbelanb14_ESO

DIE HORSE, DIE!!!!!!!!

Betahkiin

The separation between players will always exist.

It is because the playing time of each is a very important factor and that no patch that can change:

VR.

CP.

Armor.

Weapon

Skyshards.

Skill points.

Points of statistics.

Level professions.

Materials profession.

Oro.

Achievements.

etc.

All this creates division between players and is the purpose of the progression of a character, become more powerful over time. The real enemy of balance or equity in any MMORPG is the amount of hours and style of gameplay that each player uses.

There is no way to balance this without hurting one of two extremes.

If reach the maximum level is simple, it can be positive for those who play little but at the same time prove be boring and simple for those who play a lot.

If reach the maximum level is difficult, it may be good for those who play a lot but at the same time prove be tedious and complicated for those who play little.

I think the solution is not to make things easier, but find a way to generate a competitive place for those to not reached the summit and are in the process of progression.

Maybe look for a mechanic that will allow those players enjoy a competitive PvP of intermediate level.

Cogo

geoffreyb14_ESO wrote: »

Why: Player Separation. Player separation is the number one reason why vet levels need to be removed/adjusted. I've had too many real life friends simply give up because the road is too long to get to max level. The reason why becoming max level is so important in an MMO is because that pool of max level characters is the largest pool of players in the game as compared to each other individual level prior to max level. I would be very surprised if there weren't more vr14 characters than any other single level in the game (other than level 1 , or perhaps VR1). Being max level means that when you are looking for a group you don't have to find a tiny sliver of the population that is the same level as you are, instead there is a large pool of people that have reached end-game content which also happens to be the best content in the game.

How: Simply reduce the XP required to gain each vet rank from 1,000,000 to the amount of xp needed to go from 49-50 (not sure what that is). This essentially just makes vr14 the equivalent of level 63. No other changes to the game would be required. No retroactive granting of vet levels for xp gained prior to the change.

Why not do it....next patch?

BEEEP

Wrong answer! The correct answer to your inquiry can be found at any number of Paul Sage interviews from July 2014 - Sep 2014 and Nov 2014.

The whole idea with ESO and higher "level" is to always improve something without gimping old content and separate players.

Champion system is a fantastic way to do this when done correct. Proven by EverQuest 2001 - 2004 (When SoE started their dumb "easy like hell AA".)

Further more, ESO players are able to do anything they like. As long as they earn 1 XP (1!!!!), its worth something to do X. Since you will always have Champion points to put them on.

The removal of Vet ranks is in phase 3 currently. Paul Sage, as you can read for yourself, explained that its not just to delete ranks, but all content, items, PvP, on and on, must be syncronized at least somewhat.

They will do this by adding different "seasons" to items and even sell "older" seasons for gold/points. This works today as you see in Cyrodiil.

You do state quite alot of suggestion for someone who claims themselves to "not sure what that is".

FREE RESPEC!

Guppet

[/quote]

So what you are saying is that it should only take a day or so to hit max level? Because thats all it takes to hit lvl 50. So what you want is everyone to be able to have a max level character in less than 4 days of playing? Really? Because you dont want to be bothered leveling alts?

Maybe the solution is to offer you guys prebuilt characters for crowns instead? How bored will people get if you can max out a character in less than 5 days?[/quote]

Care to post a screenshot of a new VR14 with a player of less than 100 hours? Since that's what you say can be done. I'm betting no one does.

Such utter exagerations from people to try to justify keeping VR. No one at all achieved under 100 hours to VR14 on their first play through, without exploiting.

Guppet

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Takes maybe a couple weeks of playing to hit max level. If thats too long then too bad.

Utter rubbish. A couple of weeks playing 100+ hours a week maybe. But some people clearly think that's acceptable. Newsflash, most people don't spend more time in games than they do in work or sleeping.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Jaxsun wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Jaxsun wrote: »

theweakminded wrote: »

Ooooooooorrr..... people could stop complaining and just lvl. I spent 2hrs grinding mobs and gained a full vet rank. Its not as bad as people make it out to be. More than likely a bunch of people used to modern mmos that never learned what grinding was. Yes it takes effort to hit v14 but it isn't the end of the world. Biggest issue is questing is far slower than just aoe grinding mobs. 2h grinding vs 4hrs questing. Pick your poison and quit crying about it...

I have a v14 leveled before the original vet level nerf. I still want the xp needed to gain the next vet rank scaled the same as 1-49 so I don't have to waste my time leveling alts doing content I already did.

So what you are saying is that it should only take a day or so to hit max level? Because thats all it takes to hit lvl 50. So what you want is everyone to be able to have a max level character in less than 4 days of playing? Really? Because you dont want to be bothered leveling alts?

Maybe the solution is to offer you guys prebuilt characters for crowns instead? How bored will people get if you can max out a character in less than 5 days?

If there was a reason to spend that much time leveling then maybe. But as it stands all the content I want to do is end game so it makes no sense to me. Questing is ok but I get bored with it very quickly especially after having completed the content once already. Therefore leveling alts is very unappealing with the current vet. level system.

So you join a game where the main focus is questing and then do not want to quest. I never understood this.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Guppet wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Takes maybe a couple weeks of playing to hit max level. If thats too long then too bad.

Utter rubbish. A couple of weeks playing 100+ hours a week maybe. But some people clearly think that's acceptable. Newsflash, most people don't spend more time in games than they do in work or sleeping.

Go into the game and type /played. Then you will understand what I mean by couple weeks played time.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Guppet wrote: »

So what you are saying is that it should only take a day or so to hit max level? Because thats all it takes to hit lvl 50. So what you want is everyone to be able to have a max level character in less than 4 days of playing? Really? Because you dont want to be bothered leveling alts?

Maybe the solution is to offer you guys prebuilt characters for crowns instead? How bored will people get if you can max out a character in less than 5 days?[/quote]

Care to post a screenshot of a new VR14 with a player of less than 100 hours? Since that's what you say can be done. I'm betting no one does.

Such utter exagerations from people to try to justify keeping VR. No one at all achieved under 100 hours to VR14 on their first play through, without exploiting. [/quote]

I can show you a screenshot of a character with 9 days 15 hrs played time thats VR11. Every quest, every delve, every dolmen and I have two crafts maxxed out. almost have enchanting done. Maxxed both mages guild and fighters guild. Plus numerous other achievements.

Also they are talking about leveling alts not your first play through.

Exstazik

1)remove vr levels
2) after removing "old vet zones" scale to character CP.(alot of mirrors but no leechers)

Jabber

It's in the plans, and it's far more complicated to do than what people think. Getting so tired of these threads.

Jando

Jabber wrote: »

It's in the plans, and it's far more complicated to do than what people think. Getting so tired of these threads.

My proposed solution is simple. They don't have to touch anything other than drastically reduce the xp to gain VR's. They don't need to remove them entirely - which, I agree, would be very complicated.

The fact that they haven't done this already means either that they didn't realize this was an option (doubtful), or that they haven't really decided that they are going to remove vet ranks.

edit: I suppose there's one other option, that they decided that they are really going to remove veteran ranks and go through all of the effort, hassle, and risk of actually removing VR's - which in my opinion would be a really bad call by decision-makers at ZoS.

Guppet

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Takes maybe a couple weeks of playing to hit max level. If thats too long then too bad.

Utter rubbish. A couple of weeks playing 100+ hours a week maybe. But some people clearly think that's acceptable. Newsflash, most people don't spend more time in games than they do in work or sleeping.

Go into the game and type /played. Then you will understand what I mean by couple weeks played time.

You most definitely did not say a couple of weeks played time. If you had that would be reasonable enough. 14 days played (336 hours) is pretty fair for your first run to VR14. Might even be a little quick.

You did also claim earlier that it could be done in 4 days played (you said level cap in 4 days played), so that's a large change in claim.

Rune_Relic

.