Maintenance for the week of November 19:
• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: North American and European megaservers for patch maintenance – November 19, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC)
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – November 20, 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox One: North American and European megaservers for maintenance– November 21, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®4: North American and European megaservers for maintenance– November 21, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC)

Scale World to Player Level.

  • Jroc
    Jroc
    ✭✭✭
    Seraphyel wrote: »
    Jroc wrote: »
    Sorry this isn't Skyrim. Doing this would create large complications and basically result in a single-player game as every zone would be instanced.

    Guild Wars 2 is scaling your character down to the level of the zone. That's quite nice when you want to go back or just develop your character through lower level zones - and guess what, it works totally fine.

    No it doesn't, read my second comment for why scaling is not fair, and won't work.
    Edited by Jroc on April 1, 2015 12:24PM
    It's all good Bollywood
  • Armethius
    Armethius
    ✭✭
    [/quote]
    The other thing you can do, is have sub-zones with different leveling. So maybe you go through Rivenspire at level 20 and there are hints of a war, but mostly the quests deal with other things. Then at level 40, the war is in full swing, and you have to go put down an uprising or kick out the Dominion or whatever. I think it would work better though if the questing wasn't split by faction. Maybe you have to come back to Daggerfall at VR6 for a quest chain, instead of never looking back after level 50.

    This way, you're not really getting more content, but it means you're seeing old zones in a new light, plus it makes the zones feel more alive, like people are actually able to progress their lives without your immediate assistance.[/quote]
    That's exactly the kind of thing I meant when I mentioned "one-time quests that send you back there." There was another thread some time ago where I suggested things like a quest for Ebonheart characters to go back and re-take Bleakrock, or a quest for Daggerfall characters to go back and investigate sabotage that's delaying the rebuilding of Camlorn, and similar things. I'd love to have reasons to go back and re-visit those locations, and this type of quest is one of the ways that this could be achieved (with phasing). From the point of view of content creation, it's less work for ZOS to re-use an existing location for a quest than it is to create a brand new location for a quest, so theoretically this type of content could be produced much more quickly.[/quote]

    this is a great idea @ZOS_GinaBruno, i hope you get a chance to read through this thread!
  • Aett_Thorn
    Aett_Thorn
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    City of Heroes did something similar with their Giant Monster code that allowed for people of most levels to contribute in their fights. Certainly, very low-level characters could get stomped still, but that was mostly because of a lack of powers and enhancements more than their powers not scaling well.

    If applied to most enemies in a given zone, it could allow for people to team with others that are over/under their level and have everyone still contribute fairly evenly.

    The problem with this is that it would also possibly allow for fresh level 3s to go to level 50 zones and skip most of the content in the game without much worry, and this could leave the low-level zones as ghost towns.
  • darthbelanb14_ESO
    darthbelanb14_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    The only effective way to scale the world to a player's level is to instance everything. Star Trek Online does this, everything is instanced except social areas. This defeats the point of an open world. I say no. Sometimes I want to grab my higher level friend and faceroll through an area just to get through it. Or come in at a higher level to take out world bosses and dolmens I may have missed.

    If this was ever considered, then I would want an option to shut it off. Also, it should only work one way, scaling the level back. I don't want to see some level 10 character taking out level 50 mobs, unless it's in pvp, where everyone is scaled up.
  • PKMN12
    PKMN12
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    The only effective way to scale the world to a player's level is to instance everything. Star Trek Online does this, everything is instanced except social areas. This defeats the point of an open world. I say no. Sometimes I want to grab my higher level friend and faceroll through an area just to get through it. Or come in at a higher level to take out world bosses and dolmens I may have missed.

    If this was ever considered, then I would want an option to shut it off. Also, it should only work one way, scaling the level back. I don't want to see some level 10 character taking out level 50 mobs, unless it's in pvp, where everyone is scaled up.

    STO is made completely differently though as well. There are no enemies anywhere but in the instanced area's and a couple small examples but those enemies are NOT leveled to the player, they are a static level. each mission/quest is an an instanced area.

    again OP, what you are asking CANNOT WORK IN AN MMO, not sure why it is hard to understand.
  • Jeremy
    Jeremy
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Everyone keeps talking about returning to finish things 8)
    Why not just do everything when you're in that zone ;)
    Haven't missed a quest ever 8)

    That's not a solution because I do take the time to finish everything while I'm in that zone. I still out-level the content and end up getting zilch for drops. This has happened to me in every zone so far.
    Edited by Jeremy on April 1, 2015 3:06PM
  • Roechacca
    Roechacca
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Scale player to world level instead
    Roechacca NB DC
    Jurassic Punk Sorc DC
    Stelios Rhodes Templar DC
    BEEATINGYOU Stamplar DC
    Bromkar StamDK DC
    Guild Leader KungFu DC
    Guild Officer LynchMob DC
  • Aett_Thorn
    Aett_Thorn
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    PKMN12 wrote: »
    The only effective way to scale the world to a player's level is to instance everything. Star Trek Online does this, everything is instanced except social areas. This defeats the point of an open world. I say no. Sometimes I want to grab my higher level friend and faceroll through an area just to get through it. Or come in at a higher level to take out world bosses and dolmens I may have missed.

    If this was ever considered, then I would want an option to shut it off. Also, it should only work one way, scaling the level back. I don't want to see some level 10 character taking out level 50 mobs, unless it's in pvp, where everyone is scaled up.

    STO is made completely differently though as well. There are no enemies anywhere but in the instanced area's and a couple small examples but those enemies are NOT leveled to the player, they are a static level. each mission/quest is an an instanced area.

    again OP, what you are asking CANNOT WORK IN AN MMO, not sure why it is hard to understand.

    You say that it cannot work, but I've played an MMO where this very thing happened on a small scale (i.e., with certain enemies that were flagged to do so). While there may be some issues in doing this on a wider scale in a non-open world, the technology does exist for a company to do this kind of thing.

    Edit -> Link:

    http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Giant_Monster
    Edited by Aett_Thorn on April 1, 2015 3:10PM
  • PKMN12
    PKMN12
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Aett_Thorn wrote: »
    PKMN12 wrote: »
    The only effective way to scale the world to a player's level is to instance everything. Star Trek Online does this, everything is instanced except social areas. This defeats the point of an open world. I say no. Sometimes I want to grab my higher level friend and faceroll through an area just to get through it. Or come in at a higher level to take out world bosses and dolmens I may have missed.

    If this was ever considered, then I would want an option to shut it off. Also, it should only work one way, scaling the level back. I don't want to see some level 10 character taking out level 50 mobs, unless it's in pvp, where everyone is scaled up.

    STO is made completely differently though as well. There are no enemies anywhere but in the instanced area's and a couple small examples but those enemies are NOT leveled to the player, they are a static level. each mission/quest is an an instanced area.

    again OP, what you are asking CANNOT WORK IN AN MMO, not sure why it is hard to understand.

    You say that it cannot work, but I've played an MMO where this very thing happened on a small scale (i.e., with certain enemies that were flagged to do so). While there may be some issues in doing this on a wider scale in a non-open world, the technology does exist for a company to do this kind of thing.

    yeah, exactly, what i am saying is that it would NEVER WORK for everything, yeah, CERTAIN enemies it might work, everything being instanced it works. IT would never work trying to apply it to a while open MMO like ESO.
  • Amsel_McKay
    Amsel_McKay
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    One of the best thing's about Skyrim was that the game would scale to your character's power. Would be great if all the old content wasn't a complete waste. I mean, there is a huge diversity of content, and we're pretty much pigeon holed into Craglorn, which isn't so diverse.

    That is the worst part of Skyrim... I HATE the fact that every mob is easy to kill and the gear levels as well, I like a challenge I go out of my way to find mobs higher level then me in almost every game I play.
  • Aett_Thorn
    Aett_Thorn
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    PKMN12 wrote: »
    Aett_Thorn wrote: »
    PKMN12 wrote: »
    The only effective way to scale the world to a player's level is to instance everything. Star Trek Online does this, everything is instanced except social areas. This defeats the point of an open world. I say no. Sometimes I want to grab my higher level friend and faceroll through an area just to get through it. Or come in at a higher level to take out world bosses and dolmens I may have missed.

    If this was ever considered, then I would want an option to shut it off. Also, it should only work one way, scaling the level back. I don't want to see some level 10 character taking out level 50 mobs, unless it's in pvp, where everyone is scaled up.

    STO is made completely differently though as well. There are no enemies anywhere but in the instanced area's and a couple small examples but those enemies are NOT leveled to the player, they are a static level. each mission/quest is an an instanced area.

    again OP, what you are asking CANNOT WORK IN AN MMO, not sure why it is hard to understand.

    You say that it cannot work, but I've played an MMO where this very thing happened on a small scale (i.e., with certain enemies that were flagged to do so). While there may be some issues in doing this on a wider scale in a non-open world, the technology does exist for a company to do this kind of thing.

    yeah, exactly, what i am saying is that it would NEVER WORK for everything, yeah, CERTAIN enemies it might work, everything being instanced it works. IT would never work trying to apply it to a while open MMO like ESO.

    Why not? It seems like there would just need to be a change in the mindset of players, and a few other changes that would be necessary for this to happen, but it could work.

    Issues that I see, and solutions:

    1) Players would just flock to the same zones to do the content there and farm. Solution: none needed, really. Since you could still get scaled rewards if done right, then completing quests in any zone would still earn you XP at your current level. So while some would flock to certain areas to farm, others could do content in any order they liked.

    2) But lower-level characters can't get to the higher level areas quickly enough unless they have friends/guildmates, so new players would be at a slight disadvantage? Solution: like in Skyrim, have carriages in each capital city that would take you to the capital city of any other zone in your alliance. OR, allow us to have the wayshrine in each capital already unlocked on each character.

    3) How will resource nodes be handled, if I'm only level 10, but am questing in a higher-level zone? Solution: there are ways that this could be handled, none of them perfect. For instance, nodes could be made instanced like crates and such are now. Or they could be generated based on the player levels around them when they spawn, or they could just be random, which would actually make a lot of sense, given that right now there is no jute at all growing in the Rift, for instance, and that seems odd.

    4) But should low-level characters not have a sense of progression in the content they are doing? Solution; this is more of a game ethics question, and I don't think this is the place to argue it.
  • Aett_Thorn
    Aett_Thorn
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    One of the best thing's about Skyrim was that the game would scale to your character's power. Would be great if all the old content wasn't a complete waste. I mean, there is a huge diversity of content, and we're pretty much pigeon holed into Craglorn, which isn't so diverse.

    That is the worst part of Skyrim... I HATE the fact that every mob is easy to kill and the gear levels as well, I like a challenge I go out of my way to find mobs higher level then me in almost every game I play.

    This would still be easy enough to handle in a game like this. Overworld enemies could scale with player level, but instanced content like Delves, Group Dungeons, and such could be set at a specific level and don't scale with you, allowing for tougher content even if many enemies scale with you.
  • jircris11
    jircris11
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    BBSooner wrote: »
    I more enjoyed Morrowind where the world didn't scale. Some areas felt definitively more dangerous than others, it gave a sense of danger as opposed to a sense that everything is more or less my equal.

    morrowind had those areas you walked in to only to freeze and look around with the thought "not good..must go back" echoing through your mind.
    IGN: Ki'rah
    Khajiit/Vampire
    DC/AD faction/NA server.
    RPer
  • Alexium
    Alexium
    ✭✭✭
    ZOS, please give me ability to enter veteran version of my initial Alliance!
    Winged Twilight, Winged Twilight, will you sing for me?..
  • k9mouse
    k9mouse
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    PKMN12 wrote: »
    MMO's CANNOT work that way, there is no maybe here.


    I like the feeling of power if I visit lower level zones. With zone level with the char, I will lost all sense of power and progression.

    Zone Leveling to play is a bad idea.
  • vyndral13preub18_ESO
    vyndral13preub18_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Why would you go to all that trouble? If your goal was truely never to out level or under level anything, i would think the best thing to do would design a rocking alternate leveling system with skills and unlocks and what not. But have no actual levels. So everyone and every mob would forever be level 1.
  • Sallington
    Sallington
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    One of the best thing's about Skyrim was that the game would scale to your character's power. Would be great if all the old content wasn't a complete waste. I mean, there is a huge diversity of content, and we're pretty much pigeon holed into Craglorn, which isn't so diverse.

    That was the single WORST thing about Oblivion and Skyrim.
    Daggerfall Covenant
    Sallington - Templar - Stormproof - Prefect II
    Cobham - Sorcerer - Stormproof - First Sergeant II
    Shallington - NightBlade - Lieutenant |
    Balmorah - Templar - Sergeant ||
  • Danikat
    Danikat
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    I would like it if there was a system that made playing in zones below your level a viable option.

    I'm fine with zones and creatures above my level not scaling, that just means I'll get to it later. But it seems a shame to know that I'll never have a reason to go back to Stros M'kai and Betnikh and once I finish/outlevel Daggerfall I'll probably never go back there either. It means eventually I'm going to be restricted to just a few designated 'end-game' zones and have to create a new character if I want to make use of the rest of the world.

    Especially since I'm already running into a problem where I've only done about 1/2 the quests around Daggerfall and I've already out-levelled the rest. I'm doing the rest anyway because the last thing I want to do is skip content completely on my first play through, but it means I'm going to out-level the next area even faster.

    A good alternative IMO would be to have vet level versions of our chosen factions areas, so at least we get to play through them again. But I don't mind too much what the actual mechanics of the system are, it just seems a waste to spend so little time in the majority of areas.
    PC EU player. | PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    "Remember in this game we call life that no one said it's fair"
  • coldreactive_ESO
    coldreactive_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    I really disliked the scaling of player level to world level in GW2, similarly, I would not like it if the world was scaled to my level, since that would be unfair to the world.
    NA PC Megaserver
    Lucradia Valeri (D.Summoner) / Saeko Meina (T.Healer)
    GMT -0600 (Central Time, Wisconsin) - PvE Only
  • IrishGirlGamer
    IrishGirlGamer
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    UrQuan wrote: »
    I've hardly ever missed a quest in a zone, but that doesn't mean that I don't ever want to visit those zones again. What I'd really like to see is more replayability of lower level zones. There are various ways to achieve this (daily quests, one-time quests that send you back there, raids, events, etc), but for any of those to work there would have to be some sort of scaling involved. Otherwise you're just facerolling everything and getting no XP or loot, which combines to make it all feel like a waste of time.

    Yes, this. While my dream game would allow me to go where I want and fight at a level consistent to mine, I would certainly settle for this as an alternative.
    Edited by IrishGirlGamer on April 1, 2015 7:04PM
    Valar Morghulis.

    Someday I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull. Arya Stark

    You're going to die tomorrow, Lord Bolton. Sleep well. Sansa Stark

    If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. Desmond Tutu
  • TheShadowScout
    TheShadowScout
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Eh, I am opposed to scaling the world to ones character. It sems like a lot of coding effort that needed to be paid for to add an extra bunch of calculations to mess up the game and add lag for little return...

    Now, if they had made the whole game level-less to start with... but they didn't, so wishing they redo it even further now is kinda not the best thought. Much of it will become "level 50" anyways in due time if one believes the announcements about the last phase of the champion system...

    I would like it to have the old "home" zones revisited, true... perhaps in an "veteran" version to make it worth ot, unlocked for players who complete the main story, or cadwells gold, perhaps? Though I can see how some may want to revisit the low level zones too to gather crafting materials for lower level projects, to make something for friends and guildmates... but that could be done by making all crafting mats in "veteran zones" of random type instead of level-conform type as usual...
    "True understanding can be found only in the Shadow between Light and Dark..."
    Leskandera - Sneaky Dunmer Bounty Huntress
    Kelasendar - Sorcerous Dunmer Goth Librarian
    Kes dre-Lana - Amazonian Orsimer Craftsmistress
  • Eliteseraph
    Eliteseraph
    ✭✭✭
    Jroc wrote: »
    Seraphyel wrote: »
    Jroc wrote: »
    Sorry this isn't Skyrim. Doing this would create large complications and basically result in a single-player game as every zone would be instanced.

    Guild Wars 2 is scaling your character down to the level of the zone. That's quite nice when you want to go back or just develop your character through lower level zones - and guess what, it works totally fine.

    No it doesn't, read my second comment for why scaling is not fair, and won't work.

    You can't say it won't work when there's already a clear example of a successful game where it does. o_0 Have you even played GW2, or know how it works? Each zone has a max level. If you're too high, you get scaled down to the maximum for that zone. You can still 'overlevel' the earlier parts of the zone, or overpower the area by having access to higher level abilities and equipment options such as runes and more options for stats.

    Something like that would VERY easily work in ESO. Each zone has a level range. A higher level person would be scaled down to the max for that zone, and still be able to overlevel parts of the zone if they wanted. A higher level character would also potentially have access to higher level abilities, enchants, foods, equipment sets, and champion points.

    I don't think your argument holds up at all.

    Also, this:
    Aett_Thorn wrote: »
    This would still be easy enough to handle in a game like this. Overworld enemies could scale with player level, but instanced content like Delves, Group Dungeons, and such could be set at a specific level and don't scale with you, allowing for tougher content even if many enemies scale with you.

    Edited by Eliteseraph on April 2, 2015 10:12PM
    "What a sad world we live in, where politeness is mistaken for weakness." - Usagi Yojimbo
Sign In or Register to comment.