Soft Caps Removed in 1.6? Can I effectively stack Fire Resist then?

Vaerth

I am a Dunmer and decided to give Vampire a try for some reason, even though the lack fangs and look more like Zombies at rank 4 than Vampires. I read the soft caps were removed, and Vampire fire weakness was brought down to 40%. As a Dunmer can I toss on a legendary grade (Kuta) fire resist with my Dunmer fire resist to reduce fire damage down to the normal non Vampire damage?

Is it worth being a Vampire in this game for the passives? I know Invigorating Drain can be great while questing but what about in PvP an boss fights?

Vaerth

Also, how is Invigorating Drain in PvP?

Black_Wolf88

even though the soft caps is gone there is still a hard caps. but I dont know the numbers for hard caps.

Merlin13KAGL

Up to max 50% mitigation, same as you always could, same as for an other type of mitigation.

It's not possible to be immune, if that's what you are asking.

And ID is unlikely. If you are within range to use it, they are in range to interrupt it. It's a slow channeled attack that also renders you vulnerable. Not as usefull in 1vX, less useful in 1v1, as it's a one shot deal.

Vaerth

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Up to max 50% mitigation, same as you always could, same as for an other type of mitigation.

It's not possible to be immune, if that's what you are asking.

And ID is unlikely. If you are within range to use it, they are in range to interrupt it. It's a slow channeled attack that also renders you vulnerable. Not as usefull in 1vX, less useful in 1v1, as it's a one shot deal.

That sucks, I am not really seeing any benefit to being a Vampire then aside for the sneak increase, which, appears to just be a passive of the crafting set Nights Silence. We take more damage from fighters guild passives, fire is all over this game in PvP and PvE, and no skill from the Vampire line is worthy other than Devouring Swarm...No to mention the crushed health regen...

Merlin13KAGL

It's not as useful as it once was, but it's not without benefit, either.

Fire is extremely biased in this game. All elements should have equal representation, and they don't.

The primary benefits are:

• Full speed sneak without need for gear.
• Increases stealth at night.
• Increases regens x 2
• A very inexpensive Ult (at Stage 4) that hits like a truck and heals you. (Figure 10k-12k per target damage)

Honestly, throw on one Gold Fire Resist enchant where you need to (don't even need it all the time) and it's manageable.

Also, while the FG passives do make things hit harder (Silver shards/bolt, specifically), it doesn't hit nearly as hard as it used to, just more often. If you block it, there is no knock down.

How far along into the line are you?

Also, on a side note: The good news is you can always choose to get cured (respec first or your skillpoints go into limbo). The other good news is, you can always get re-gifted later.

Vaerth

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

It's not as useful as it once was, but it's not without benefit, either.

Fire is extremely biased in this game. All elements should have equal representation, and they don't.

The primary benefits are:

• Full speed sneak without need for gear.
• Increases stealth at night.
• Increases regens x 2
• A very inexpensive Ult (at Stage 4) that hits like a truck and heals you. (Figure 10k-12k per target damage)

Honestly, throw on one Gold Fire Resist enchant where you need to (don't even need it all the time) and it's manageable.

Also, while the FG passives do make things hit harder (Silver shards/bolt, specifically), it doesn't hit nearly as hard as it used to, just more often. If you block it, there is no knock down.

How far along into the line are you?

Also, on a side note: The good news is you can always choose to get cured (respec first or your skillpoints go into limbo). The other good news is, you can always get re-gifted later.

I have Vampire rank 10, fully maxed out. my problem is I cured it when I came back to the game 2 months ago. I picked it back up to try it again as I am a big fan of Vampires from games like Legacy of Kain and movies like Underworld. I was bitten yesterday in Riften by Bloodfiends and figured I would give it another go, and from what I can see it is not very beneficial. I am a stamina build NightBlade and thought Invigorating Drain could help in PvP because it surely lacks in boss fights.

I love Vampires, but in this game they are so very weak compared to mortals and werewolves. I mean, werewolf has a 15% stamina regen in human form with NO negative effects at all. I get 10% of each Stamina and Magika as a Vampire, but I do not rely on Magika so it is not better in that regard.

Cons:

Mist Form Removes my healing, as a NightBlade I only have HoTs no instant heals
Fire Is all over in this game, and Vampires wither away faster (even Dunmer)
Invigorating Drain is not useful vs Bosses or in PvP, waste of skill points or slot.
Reduced Health Regen
Increase damage from fighters guild passive
Weak against an entire class skill line Ardent Flame

Pros:

Bat Swarm
Sneak Speed


Do not get me wrong, I really WANT to enjoy and be a Vampire but I feel like it is so very weak compared to Werewolf and mortal players...I want someone to convince me it is worth while.

Samadhi

Vaerth wrote: »

...
That sucks, I am not really seeing any benefit to being a Vampire then aside for the sneak increase, which, appears to just be a passive of the crafting set Nights Silence. ...

This is reason my character is presently a vampire.
Choice between equipping Night's Silence or Hunding's Rage on a Nightblade/Stamina/Burst build was fairly easy.

Personally only using my Warrior points for Elemental Defender Fire Resist and not bothering otherwise.

In PvP fire damage hurts a bit but is not terrible for me; rarely is there any fire-oriented skills on my death recap.

Fighter's Guild passive with no softcaps and Dawnbreaker are a bit more brutal though.

Shooting Star might cause problems since it is so prevalent now, but have not had issues with it myself.

Vaerth

Samadhi wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

...
That sucks, I am not really seeing any benefit to being a Vampire then aside for the sneak increase, which, appears to just be a passive of the crafting set Nights Silence. ...

This is reason my character is presently a vampire.
Choice between equipping Night's Silence or Hunding's Rage on a Nightblade/Stamina/Burst build was fairly easy.

Personally only using my Warrior points for Elemental Defender Fire Resist and not bothering otherwise.

In PvP fire damage hurts a bit but is not terrible for me; rarely is there any fire-oriented skills on my death recap.

Fighter's Guild passive with no softcaps and Dawnbreaker are a bit more brutal though.

Shooting Star might cause problems since it is so prevalent now, but have not had issues with it myself.

Why not be non vampire with Concealed Weapon then for 25% increase to sneak? Continue using Hundings Rage and do not lose out on the perks of Hundings Rage and get a sneak boost?

Merlin13KAGL

It is less beneficial for Stamina heavy character builds, true.

The fire damage is the big thing, and again, you can counter most of that with a single piece of jewelry. (You'll take 25% less fire damage than a mortal would with 50% resist - this is still much better than 50% more with no fire resist.) Also, there are CP passives that will help with this.

Personally, I think it's made me a better player. Many of the attacks can be blocked (for additional mitigation) or avoided (wall of flame, fire rune). It requires you to be more aware of your surroundings and mobility.

In those fire intensive scenarios, Elusive Myst can shine, as you will eat 75% less damage outright It does suck that it kills your health regen and magicka regen in the process (HR made sense, as you are immune to healing, MR was just wrong and unnecessary nerfing). It's good for mobility (since you don't use magicka, losing MR or having smaller pool won't affect you as much) - consider it a combination of Immovable, shield, rapid movement all in the form of a Sprint that costs Magicka vice Stamina...a good thing for a Stamina based character. It's a free opportunity for your primary pool to regroup.

Since you can not longer 'sprint' while in mystform, it will rarely be a PvP escape mechanism, as someone else with plenty of Stamina can sprint and match your speed.

Drain isn't completely useless, it's just more situational. Anywhere there are mobs or adds, there is still potential there. It's more of a filler than a primary damage device. (Invogorating helps with Ult Generation, too...don't forget about that perk).

Last caveat, low Health Regen:

Pro tip: Health Regen is almost never going to be the difference between winning and losing a fight, because it requires more time. If you are already that low on resources, time is likely a luxury you don't have.

Consider the timing on things. Don't know if you use Restro or not, but you can fire off Healing Ward, Mystform to mitigate/move. By the time you're out of Mystform, your Ward has popped (with almost full value thanks to Mystform's damage mitigation) and you can resume being the NB you are. This is just one example.

It all comes down to your build and your playstyle. I've complete DSA, Trials, and every Vet and Normal Dungeon out there in Vamp form (Incineration Beetles anyone? and in Vet CoA and Volenfell, even the damn lions and tigers are playing with matches.)

It may take a bit to get it to click for you, but it can be done.

Make sure you have all points in Supernatural Recovery and Undeath... Undeath directly translates to a larger effective health pool, especially with both points.

If you enjoy it, grab a ring or two and figure out how to make it help your build. If it only causes you grief, take your experience, get cured, and don't feel bad one way or the other.

Personally, I refuse to give it up unless I absolutely have to. If that time comes, I'll likely just roll another character.

Hope this helps.

Stay dark.

Vaerth

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

It is less beneficial for Stamina heavy character builds, true.

The fire damage is the big thing, and again, you can counter most of that with a single piece of jewelry. (You'll take 25% less fire damage than a mortal would with 50% resist - this is still much better than 50% more with no fire resist.) Also, there are CP passives that will help with this.

Personally, I think it's made me a better player. Many of the attacks can be blocked (for additional mitigation) or avoided (wall of flame, fire rune). It requires you to be more aware of your surroundings and mobility.

In those fire intensive scenarios, Elusive Myst can shine, as you will eat 75% less damage outright It does suck that it kills your health regen and magicka regen in the process (HR made sense, as you are immune to healing, MR was just wrong and unnecessary nerfing). It's good for mobility (since you don't use magicka, losing MR or having smaller pool won't affect you as much) - consider it a combination of Immovable, shield, rapid movement all in the form of a Sprint that costs Magicka vice Stamina...a good thing for a Stamina based character. It's a free opportunity for your primary pool to regroup.

Since you can not longer 'sprint' while in mystform, it will rarely be a PvP escape mechanism, as someone else with plenty of Stamina can sprint and match your speed.

Drain isn't completely useless, it's just more situational. Anywhere there are mobs or adds, there is still potential there. It's more of a filler than a primary damage device. (Invogorating helps with Ult Generation, too...don't forget about that perk).

Last caveat, low Health Regen:

Pro tip: Health Regen is almost never going to be the difference between winning and losing a fight, because it requires more time. If you are already that low on resources, time is likely a luxury you don't have.

Consider the timing on things. Don't know if you use Restro or not, but you can fire off Healing Ward, Mystform to mitigate/move. By the time you're out of Mystform, your Ward has popped (with almost full value thanks to Mystform's damage mitigation) and you can resume being the NB you are. This is just one example.

It all comes down to your build and your playstyle. I've complete DSA, Trials, and every Vet and Normal Dungeon out there in Vamp form (Incineration Beetles anyone? and in Vet CoA and Volenfell, even the damn lions and tigers are playing with matches.)

It may take a bit to get it to click for you, but it can be done.

Make sure you have all points in Supernatural Recovery and Undeath... Undeath directly translates to a larger effective health pool, especially with both points.

If you enjoy it, grab a ring or two and figure out how to make it help your build. If it only causes you grief, take your experience, get cured, and don't feel bad one way or the other.

Personally, I refuse to give it up unless I absolutely have to. If that time comes, I'll likely just roll another character.

Hope this helps.

Stay dark.

Devouring Swarm does has my interest to be sure, but as my OP in this thread, as a Dunmer already, will it still be beneficial enough to use a gold Resist Fire Glyph and to throw points in Elemental Defender on the Champion System? I am just trying my best to work around the negatives. Honestly, the cons greatly outweigh the pros by a land slide in PvP. But I WANT to be a Vampire because I like the lore and am a big fan. I think I am just disappointed with how it is treated in PvP, and how Werewolves get 15% stamina regen with no penalties in Human form...

Samadhi

Vaerth wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

...
That sucks, I am not really seeing any benefit to being a Vampire then aside for the sneak increase, which, appears to just be a passive of the crafting set Nights Silence. ...

This is reason my character is presently a vampire.
Choice between equipping Night's Silence or Hunding's Rage on a Nightblade/Stamina/Burst build was fairly easy.

Personally only using my Warrior points for Elemental Defender Fire Resist and not bothering otherwise.

In PvP fire damage hurts a bit but is not terrible for me; rarely is there any fire-oriented skills on my death recap.

Fighter's Guild passive with no softcaps and Dawnbreaker are a bit more brutal though.

Shooting Star might cause problems since it is so prevalent now, but have not had issues with it myself.

Why not be non vampire with Concealed Weapon then for 25% increase to sneak? Continue using Hundings Rage and do not lose out on the perks of Hundings Rage and get a sneak boost?

That would result in sacrificing both speed (Concealed Weapon provides less bonus than vampire or Night's Silence) as well as damage (Stamina build where Surprise Attack is pretty vital -- Concealed is Magicka, lower damage, no armour reduction debuff).
My Magicka Healer build uses Concealed Weapon though -- it stacks with the vampire passive making all my Sneak movement equivalent to base sprint speed.

Vaerth

Samadhi wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

...
That sucks, I am not really seeing any benefit to being a Vampire then aside for the sneak increase, which, appears to just be a passive of the crafting set Nights Silence. ...

This is reason my character is presently a vampire.
Choice between equipping Night's Silence or Hunding's Rage on a Nightblade/Stamina/Burst build was fairly easy.

Personally only using my Warrior points for Elemental Defender Fire Resist and not bothering otherwise.

In PvP fire damage hurts a bit but is not terrible for me; rarely is there any fire-oriented skills on my death recap.

Fighter's Guild passive with no softcaps and Dawnbreaker are a bit more brutal though.

Shooting Star might cause problems since it is so prevalent now, but have not had issues with it myself.

Why not be non vampire with Concealed Weapon then for 25% increase to sneak? Continue using Hundings Rage and do not lose out on the perks of Hundings Rage and get a sneak boost?

That would result in sacrificing both speed (Concealed Weapon provides less bonus than vampire or Night's Silence) as well as damage (Stamina build where Surprise Attack is pretty vital -- Concealed is Magicka, lower damage, no armour reduction debuff).
My Magicka Healer build uses Concealed Weapon though -- it stacks with the vampire passive making all my Sneak movement equivalent to base sprint speed.

Yes but I do not use Surprise Attack because the damage is much less than Wrecking Blow, and the 40% armor debuff is now only applied when attacking from stealth or invisible. Wrecking Blow provides the stun and twice the damage without requiring me to use Shadowy Disguise.

My build plan as of right now is

Ambush
Wrecking Blow
Vigor
Killer's Blade
and last spot is undecided

I would consider Mist Form but I fear it will just mess up the heal from Vigor since it cancels all HoTs.

If I decide to use Surprise Attack that would require me to have Dark Cloak or Shadowy Disguise to make it useful, since the 40% debuff requires attacking from Stealth or Invisible to reduce armor now, which really stinks lol.

Khaldar

I just cured 3 of my 4 alts of Vampirism (2 were NBs). I feel less squishie and feel like I didn't lose any power. I really like being normal again.

Merlin13KAGL

Vaerth wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

It is less beneficial for Stamina heavy character builds, true.

The fire damage is the big thing, and again, you can counter most of that with a single piece of jewelry. (You'll take 25% less fire damage than a mortal would with 50% resist - this is still much better than 50% more with no fire resist.) Also, there are CP passives that will help with this.

Personally, I think it's made me a better player. Many of the attacks can be blocked (for additional mitigation) or avoided (wall of flame, fire rune). It requires you to be more aware of your surroundings and mobility.

In those fire intensive scenarios, Elusive Myst can shine, as you will eat 75% less damage outright It does suck that it kills your health regen and magicka regen in the process (HR made sense, as you are immune to healing, MR was just wrong and unnecessary nerfing). It's good for mobility (since you don't use magicka, losing MR or having smaller pool won't affect you as much) - consider it a combination of Immovable, shield, rapid movement all in the form of a Sprint that costs Magicka vice Stamina...a good thing for a Stamina based character. It's a free opportunity for your primary pool to regroup.

Since you can not longer 'sprint' while in mystform, it will rarely be a PvP escape mechanism, as someone else with plenty of Stamina can sprint and match your speed.

Drain isn't completely useless, it's just more situational. Anywhere there are mobs or adds, there is still potential there. It's more of a filler than a primary damage device. (Invogorating helps with Ult Generation, too...don't forget about that perk).

Last caveat, low Health Regen:

Pro tip: Health Regen is almost never going to be the difference between winning and losing a fight, because it requires more time. If you are already that low on resources, time is likely a luxury you don't have.

Consider the timing on things. Don't know if you use Restro or not, but you can fire off Healing Ward, Mystform to mitigate/move. By the time you're out of Mystform, your Ward has popped (with almost full value thanks to Mystform's damage mitigation) and you can resume being the NB you are. This is just one example.

It all comes down to your build and your playstyle. I've complete DSA, Trials, and every Vet and Normal Dungeon out there in Vamp form (Incineration Beetles anyone? and in Vet CoA and Volenfell, even the damn lions and tigers are playing with matches.)

It may take a bit to get it to click for you, but it can be done.

Make sure you have all points in Supernatural Recovery and Undeath... Undeath directly translates to a larger effective health pool, especially with both points.

If you enjoy it, grab a ring or two and figure out how to make it help your build. If it only causes you grief, take your experience, get cured, and don't feel bad one way or the other.

Personally, I refuse to give it up unless I absolutely have to. If that time comes, I'll likely just roll another character.

Hope this helps.

Stay dark.

Devouring Swarm does has my interest to be sure, but as my OP in this thread, as a Dunmer already, will it still be beneficial enough to use a gold Resist Fire Glyph and to throw points in Elemental Defender on the Champion System? I am just trying my best to work around the negatives. Honestly, the cons greatly outweigh the pros by a land slide in PvP. But I WANT to be a Vampire because I like the lore and am a big fan. I think I am just disappointed with how it is treated in PvP, and how Werewolves get 15% stamina regen with no penalties in Human form...

It hits hard and hits often. If you're confronting Daedric/Undead with the FG passive maxed, it almost refills itself.

Throw a AoE with DoT on with Destruction Mastery and you get a nice Magicka Refill when everything dies.

Not sure how much you get from just Dunmer since the change. Glyphs are cheap, and if you are still having trouble with Fire, it's worth the addition. If you don't think it will make that much of a difference along with the Racial, go with Spell Resist and cover everything. You can always downgrade to purple for cost. Better yet, hit me up in game and I'll make you a glyph for the cost of the rune alone.

Just bear in mind that you will get double the effectiveness out of specific resistances vice Spell Damage.

Also, Elemental Defender is still worthwhile, as it protects you from all elements. Fire reigns supreme right now, but it may not always be that way. Things like Force Shock hit you with all three. Elemental will reduce the effect of the other two, as well.

Use the gift to complement your skills, not as a replacement for them. The skill line as it stands cannot be successful by itself.

Devouring Swarm has brought me back from the brink on more than one occasion and is still a very effective AoE. This can be huge in PvP. Don't underestimate a well placed CC followed by Swarm.

Regarding downside, block flame lash/silver shards/leash. Due to the damage reduction, Shards are not spammed as they once were, so they are less of a threat.

Also, don't forget about the passives that increase healing initiated and received - those will amp up the heal from Swarm even further.

Samadhi

Vaerth wrote: »

Yes but I do not use Surprise Attack because the damage is much less than Wrecking Blow, and the 40% armor debuff is now only applied when attacking from stealth or invisible. ...

The tooltip says that, but the skill still presently applies the debuff without going invisible. Also provides passive health increase for being slotted, as well as armour/spell resistance buff after every use.
My build already uses Shadowy Disguise anyway if they change the debuff proc though.

Vaerth

Samadhi wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

Yes but I do not use Surprise Attack because the damage is much less than Wrecking Blow, and the 40% armor debuff is now only applied when attacking from stealth or invisible. ...

The tooltip says that, but the skill still presently applies the debuff without going invisible. Also provides passive health increase for being slotted, as well as armour/spell resistance buff after every use.
My build already uses Shadowy Disguise anyway if they change the debuff proc though.

You can confirm for sure that this does NOT require stealth or invisible to apply the debuff? Even in regards to what the tooltip says? I am happy to use it once more if it is indeed working without requiring stealth / invisible. I am considering tossing Shadowy Disguise back on my bar, but I am unsure still at the moment. So far this is my plan if I remain a Vampire, what do you guys think?

Ambush
Surprise Attack
Shadowy Disguise
Wrecking Blow
Vigor
Devouring Swarm

5 set Hundings Rage rest Nights Silence since this is a Stamina build, Bar two would have a bow for ranged combat needs. If i can ever get my Undaunted to level at all I would love the passive for Undaunted Mettle for the 2% increase in all stats with 1 of each armor type as well, maybe one day lol.

xaraan

I believe vampires still have a minimum resistance barrier where they always take more damage than a non-vampire from fire still in 1.6, even with stacking enchants you'd hit that hard cap.

Samadhi

Vaerth wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

Yes but I do not use Surprise Attack because the damage is much less than Wrecking Blow, and the 40% armor debuff is now only applied when attacking from stealth or invisible. ...

The tooltip says that, but the skill still presently applies the debuff without going invisible. Also provides passive health increase for being slotted, as well as armour/spell resistance buff after every use.
My build already uses Shadowy Disguise anyway if they change the debuff proc though.

You can confirm for sure that this does NOT require stealth or invisible to apply the debuff? ...

Tested it to verify before making that post.
Target's health bar got the cracked display and all subsequent hits did higher damage than prior to using it.

f047ys3v3n

Vaerth wrote: »

I am a Dunmer and decided to give Vampire a try for some reason, even though the lack fangs and look more like Zombies at rank 4 than Vampires. I read the soft caps were removed, and Vampire fire weakness was brought down to 40%. As a Dunmer can I toss on a legendary grade (Kuta) fire resist with my Dunmer fire resist to reduce fire damage down to the normal non Vampire damage?

Is it worth being a Vampire in this game for the passives? I know Invigorating Drain can be great while questing but what about in PvP an boss fights?

Sure you could stack fire resist. If you enchant all 3 peices of jewelry and add to that your Dunmer resist you will be roughly where one peice of jewelry was in 1.5. The magnitude of resist from all of these sources was nerfed roughly 75% each (never seems like ZOS goes with the light touch on balance does it).

Honestly, if your going to go vamp your just better dealing with the consequences unmitigated as these new magnitudes are just a waste of an enchant slot. The change from 50% to 40% extra fire damage for a vamp is dwarfed by the relatively lower health we now have and relatively lower fire resist from fire resist sources. You will take relatively far more fire damage, measured as a % of your total health now as a vamp than in 1.5. This is why many PVE players, myself included, have dropped vamp entirely. It is much harder to survive in PVE with vampire than it was before. I should also note that the regen also has less relative value now as we are just not running shy on magica as much. This is especially true since most players have switched to stam for the greater survivability and higher DPS. Stam regen from wherewolf comes without any downside by the way.

My opinion, Vamp is useful for PVP speed sneek and batswarm only. It is a big liability in PVE so if you do both a bunch you should probably avoid the curse.

Vaerth

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

I am a Dunmer and decided to give Vampire a try for some reason, even though the lack fangs and look more like Zombies at rank 4 than Vampires. I read the soft caps were removed, and Vampire fire weakness was brought down to 40%. As a Dunmer can I toss on a legendary grade (Kuta) fire resist with my Dunmer fire resist to reduce fire damage down to the normal non Vampire damage?

Is it worth being a Vampire in this game for the passives? I know Invigorating Drain can be great while questing but what about in PvP an boss fights?

Sure you could stack fire resist. If you enchant all 3 peices of jewelry and add to that your Dunmer resist you will be roughly where one peice of jewelry was in 1.5. The magnitude of resist from all of these sources was nerfed roughly 75% each (never seems like ZOS goes with the light touch on balance does it).

Honestly, if your going to go vamp your just better dealing with the consequences unmitigated as these new magnitudes are just a waste of an enchant slot. The change from 50% to 40% extra fire damage for a vamp is dwarfed by the relatively lower health we now have and relatively lower fire resist from fire resist sources. You will take relatively far more fire damage, measured as a % of your total health now as a vamp than in 1.5. This is why many PVE players, myself included, have dropped vamp entirely. It is much harder to survive in PVE with vampire than it was before. I should also note that the regen also has less relative value now as we are just not running shy on magica as much. This is especially true since most players have switched to stam for the greater survivability and higher DPS. Stam regen from wherewolf comes without any downside by the way.

My opinion, Vamp is useful for PVP speed sneek and batswarm only. It is a big liability in PVE so if you do both a bunch you should probably avoid the curse.

Perhaps I will just cure it then, which is really messed up that I wont enjoy Vampirism because it will make the game harder, when it should not matter if I am Vampire or Normal to enjoy combat, seems really wrong to me but oh well, guess I will go Werewolf.

Vaerth

Samadhi wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

Yes but I do not use Surprise Attack because the damage is much less than Wrecking Blow, and the 40% armor debuff is now only applied when attacking from stealth or invisible. ...

The tooltip says that, but the skill still presently applies the debuff without going invisible. Also provides passive health increase for being slotted, as well as armour/spell resistance buff after every use.
My build already uses Shadowy Disguise anyway if they change the debuff proc though.

You can confirm for sure that this does NOT require stealth or invisible to apply the debuff? ...

Tested it to verify before making that post.
Target's health bar got the cracked display and all subsequent hits did higher damage than prior to using it.

Awesome, thank you!

Vaerth

This game is 70% fire so vamps suck

Jitterbug

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

(respec first or your skillpoints go into limbo).

Skill points are only in limbo until you respec the next time - then they re-appear.

Septimus_Magna

Vamp is not so viable anymore, the benefits just dont outweigh the disadvantages.
There are multiple reasons to explain why vampire isnt viable anymore, especially for LA users.

First, fire does 40% more damage to vampires.
Second, the LA nerf reduced spell resistance drastically which causes spells to do more damage. Before LA got you close to the softcap mitigating about 35% spell damage (incl. fire damage), now LA offers about 9k spell resist which only mitigates 14% spell damage (incl. fire damage).
Third, fire resist glyphs have been nerfed significantly. They now offer only 5% fire mitigation per gold vr14 glyph.
Forth, siege weapons ignore all armor and spell resist, so fire ballista's, oil pots and fire trebuchets will do very high damage to vamps. A vamp sorc guild mate of mine was emperor yesterday and even he got killed by fire ballista's a couple times, if you dont purge the dot will simply kill you in 1-2 ticks.

So lets say a normal fire attacks hits for 8k without any mitigation on a non-vamp, this attack will hit a vamp for 11.2k damage without mitigation. With LA on this will hit a non-vamp for 6.9k and a vamp for 9.6k. Even with 3x gold fire resist glyphs the attack will hit the vamp for 7.9k damage. Thats 13% more fire damage than a non-vamp without any fire resistance. The 10% extra magicka and stamina regen from the vamp passive is too little to make up for the drop in fire damage mitigation. I use 3x gold cost reduction glyphs which gives 21% cost reduction and this is essential for my sustain.

Vamp might be viable for a Dunmer in 5MA/2HA who can afford to loose some mitigation but I havent tested this myself.


Formula I used for calculating mitigation: (resist value - (resist value /50)) / 630* = % mitigation (*630 value for VR14)

MornaBaine

Vaerth wrote: »

Do not get me wrong, I really WANT to enjoy and be a Vampire but I feel like it is so very weak compared to Werewolf and mortal players...I want someone to convince me it is worth while.

No one is going to be able to convince you of that because the fact is that vampires STILL need a TON of work.

Vaerth

MornaBaine wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

Do not get me wrong, I really WANT to enjoy and be a Vampire but I feel like it is so very weak compared to Werewolf and mortal players...I want someone to convince me it is worth while.

No one is going to be able to convince you of that because the fact is that vampires STILL need a TON of work.

Unfortunately you are 100% correct. I love vampires, I love the lore and the style of play, but it is very true that they are in a very bad state right now.

psufan5

Vaerth wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

...
That sucks, I am not really seeing any benefit to being a Vampire then aside for the sneak increase, which, appears to just be a passive of the crafting set Nights Silence. ...

This is reason my character is presently a vampire.
Choice between equipping Night's Silence or Hunding's Rage on a Nightblade/Stamina/Burst build was fairly easy.

Personally only using my Warrior points for Elemental Defender Fire Resist and not bothering otherwise.

In PvP fire damage hurts a bit but is not terrible for me; rarely is there any fire-oriented skills on my death recap.

Fighter's Guild passive with no softcaps and Dawnbreaker are a bit more brutal though.

Shooting Star might cause problems since it is so prevalent now, but have not had issues with it myself.

Why not be non vampire with Concealed Weapon then for 25% increase to sneak? Continue using Hundings Rage and do not lose out on the perks of Hundings Rage and get a sneak boost?

That sneak boost is only good if you have rapid maneuver. 25% is not nearly as good as completely removing the stealth penalty all together.

Vaerth

psufan5 wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

...
That sucks, I am not really seeing any benefit to being a Vampire then aside for the sneak increase, which, appears to just be a passive of the crafting set Nights Silence. ...

This is reason my character is presently a vampire.
Choice between equipping Night's Silence or Hunding's Rage on a Nightblade/Stamina/Burst build was fairly easy.

Personally only using my Warrior points for Elemental Defender Fire Resist and not bothering otherwise.

In PvP fire damage hurts a bit but is not terrible for me; rarely is there any fire-oriented skills on my death recap.

Fighter's Guild passive with no softcaps and Dawnbreaker are a bit more brutal though.

Shooting Star might cause problems since it is so prevalent now, but have not had issues with it myself.

Why not be non vampire with Concealed Weapon then for 25% increase to sneak? Continue using Hundings Rage and do not lose out on the perks of Hundings Rage and get a sneak boost?

That sneak boost is only good if you have rapid maneuver. 25% is not nearly as good as completely removing the stealth penalty all together.

Faster sneak is not a good trade for this games love of fire, and the passive damage increase fighter guild provides to vamps. Now that siege does more, and is fire based most of the time, if you are hit as a vamp your down.

glavius

Funny thing is 1.6 nerfed fire resist enchants and racials to near useless values.
And fire resist actually wasn't affected by softcap in 1.5.

So things got way worse for vamps.

Vaerth

Its like ZoS is trying to favor werewolves.