My view of class balance

vichoi

In my opinion, class balance should divide into offense and defense balance, and I'd like to talk about the defense balance between the 4 classes( in PVP)

All classes have their unique defense abilities to stay alive in a fight.
DK have healing and reflect
Templar have healing and shield
Sorcerer have shield and BE
NB have cloak and maybe some self healing skill (never played NB, pls let me know if NB have any other good ability to stay alive)

As you can see all classes have 2 unique defensive skills, any people asking for a nerf or buff on top of those skills could make the class too strong or too weak.
For that reason, I think some sorcerers asking for giving sorcerer a healing class skill will not success as that will make sorcerers too powerful( as they'll have 3 class defensive skills)

However, what makes a class looks weaker than others is the way their defensive skill countered by others,
For example NB's cloak can be easily countered by inner light or detection potion, together with the bugs of cloak skill make them the worst in survivability. (However I think some NB are quite strong now if the know how to play their class, I met one call Ninja San in NA server, for many times I saw him solo more than 5 players and vanish)

Sorcerer's shield is good but damage or critical resistance do not apply, so they always down by one or 2 hits.
BE can be easily countered by any charge skill, and it only take I slot to counter make it quite useless for escape( not to mention the high cost and short distance and everyone is using 2handed stamina build now)

DK are a bit stronger because their reflect is harder to counter (usually need sword/shield or whole skill bar to counter)
And there's no good ways to counter healing

Templar is the strongest because there's not good ways to counter both shield and healing

I think NB and sorcerers may need some love on their survival skills, because they're bugged and too easy to be countered.

Just my 2 cents, please feel free to leave any opinion.

Kas

vichoi wrote: »

Just my 2 cents, please feel free to leave any opinion.

You break class balance down to very basic things. Those things tell 10% of the story at best.
Where is defense against CC, where is mobility?
Different builds can make entirely different things out of the same class (just compare 2h/bow stamina templars like from that "blood knight" build to high HP magicka templars - either is more similar to popular builds for other classes than they are to each other).

Finally, every single class should build differently for solo, small groups or larger groups and each build will have entirely different strengths / weaknesses

AbraXuSeXile

vichoi wrote: »

In my opinion, class balance should divide into offense and defense balance, and I'd like to talk about the defense balance between the 4 classes( in PVP)

All classes have their unique defense abilities to stay alive in a fight.
DK have healing and reflect
Templar have healing and shield
Sorcerer have shield and BE
NB have cloak and maybe some self healing skill (never played NB, pls let me know if NB have any other good ability to stay alive)

As you can see all classes have 2 unique defensive skills, any people asking for a nerf or buff on top of those skills could make the class too strong or too weak.
For that reason, I think some sorcerers asking for giving sorcerer a healing class skill will not success as that will make sorcerers too powerful( as they'll have 3 class defensive skills)

However, what makes a class looks weaker than others is the way their defensive skill countered by others,
For example NB's cloak can be easily countered by inner light or detection potion, together with the bugs of cloak skill make them the worst in survivability. (However I think some NB are quite strong now if the know how to play their class, I met one call Ninja San in NA server, for many times I saw him solo more than 5 players and vanish)

Sorcerer's shield is good but damage or critical resistance do not apply, so they always down by one or 2 hits.
BE can be easily countered by any charge skill, and it only take I slot to counter make it quite useless for escape( not to mention the high cost and short distance and everyone is using 2handed stamina build now)

DK are a bit stronger because their reflect is harder to counter (usually need sword/shield or whole skill bar to counter)
And there's no good ways to counter healing

Templar is the strongest because there's not good ways to counter both shield and healing

I think NB and sorcerers may need some love on their survival skills, because they're bugged and too easy to be countered.

Just my 2 cents, please feel free to leave any opinion.

Blazing Shield is crap now btw fyi.

guybrushtb16_ESO

vichoi wrote: »

In my opinion, class balance should divide into offense and defense balance, and I'd like to talk about the defense balance between the 4 classes( in PVP)

All classes have their unique defense abilities to stay alive in a fight.
DK have healing and reflect
Templar have healing and shield
Sorcerer have shield and BE
NB have cloak and maybe some self healing skill (never played NB, pls let me know if NB have any other good ability to stay alive)

As you can see all classes have 2 unique defensive skills, any people asking for a nerf or buff on top of those skills could make the class too strong or too weak.
For that reason, I think some sorcerers asking for giving sorcerer a healing class skill will not success as that will make sorcerers too powerful( as they'll have 3 class defensive skills)

However, what makes a class looks weaker than others is the way their defensive skill countered by others,
For example NB's cloak can be easily countered by inner light or detection potion, together with the bugs of cloak skill make them the worst in survivability. (However I think some NB are quite strong now if the know how to play their class, I met one call Ninja San in NA server, for many times I saw him solo more than 5 players and vanish)

Sorcerer's shield is good but damage or critical resistance do not apply, so they always down by one or 2 hits.
BE can be easily countered by any charge skill, and it only take I slot to counter make it quite useless for escape( not to mention the high cost and short distance and everyone is using 2handed stamina build now)

DK are a bit stronger because their reflect is harder to counter (usually need sword/shield or whole skill bar to counter)
And there's no good ways to counter healing

Templar is the strongest because there's not good ways to counter both shield and healing

I think NB and sorcerers may need some love on their survival skills, because they're bugged and too easy to be countered.

Just my 2 cents, please feel free to leave any opinion.

You seem to operate under the assumption that the number of unique skills is an indicator of their added effectiveness, which IMO is a pretty ridiculous idea. 1 imba spammable self heal will beat a thousand awkward alternatives, especially with the incredibly limited hotbar space we have.

AltusVenifus

NBs have cloak, but it is garbage for survival, awesome for the 100% crit chance...

Mumyo

LOL BOL from templar heals for 6k or max 7k and costs tons and a single shard from sorc does around 15k.
Shieldstrength is around 6k aswelle except u go for full health and suck in dmg and ressources.
Open ur eyes in pvp and watch what happens to templars, u only get to see them thanks to radiant destruction and thats it.

Soulac

Nb is fine

Mumyo

Soulac wrote: »

Nb is fine

i agree

Tankqull

Mumyo wrote: »

LOL BOL from templar heals for 6k or max 7k and costs tons and a single shard from sorc does around 15k.
Shieldstrength is around 6k aswelle except u go for full health and suck in dmg and ressources.
Open ur eyes in pvp and watch what happens to templars, u only get to see them thanks to radiant destruction and thats it.

thats a "critical hit" on a nearly depleted shield.
thx to the inability of zos to code properly spellpierce does not pierce existing resitences but buffs the dmg to compensate for the resitance. in combination with how shields are implementet and dmg overflow is handeled you sometimes see these big shard hits. a normal shard is inbetween 5-7k depending on targets armor and thus in between 7-10k critical hits using 7/7light+apprentice+sharpened weapon (as buged nirn should not be a balance factor).