The road ahead: A farming game with high inflation

lishiping84

No joke.

This game is way better than it launched. However the new update of 1.6 will change this great same as other grinding MMO.

Right now people can steal things very easy, just get into a building and checking containers in the blind sopts of NPCs, and sell them are very profitable.

and CP system, well i have to say maybe half year later only pople who has farmed more than certain CPs will be invited to join a trial or some other ending game content.

For now my main toon only earned 2 cps. And meanwhile I am raising another toon in same faction. Still I'm happy to repeat all these quests again despite it will slow my leveling and the reward of solo quest is so poor (seriously the reward for finishing all main quests in three factions really pissed me off), because i think its more fun than farming mobs. And meanwhile people are forming farming teams in Craglorn. some people aready farmd like 30+ CPs.

TehMagnus

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/149933/why-champion-system-will-kill-the-game-if-its-implemented-as-is Been saying it since CS was on PTS.

Valmond

My level 8 nightblade can make 10k+ a day, from vendoring crap she stole
More likely she ends up with 3 to 5k, if i fully use her interactions with the fence (which i rarely do), but that's still fairly high for that level.

AlnilamE

You can make about 5k an hour stealing, which is not out of line with what you'd get questing or dungeon crawling in the same period.

Rook_Master

I don't think inflation will be that bad, you can make just as much grinding mobs IMO.

Oughash

TehMagnus wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/149933/why-champion-system-will-kill-the-game-if-its-implemented-as-is Been saying it since CS was on PTS.

Magnus is right. Many in my PvP guild are now experiencing the Champion System without having tried it on PTS -- and they don't like it. Here's the deal: 1.6 fixed a ton things that needed fixing. It broke some stuff, too. But the Champion System is a fundamental gameplay device which people will tire of quickly.

Digiman

lishiping84 wrote: »

N
Right now people can steal things very easy, just get into a building and checking containers in the blind sopts of NPCs, and sell them are very profitable.

Except there is a cap on how much you can sell and some players may not like stealing for RP reasons. CP systems seems like a step to help me get motivated into doing dailies. At most when you have expierence the whole game and trials you left spinning your wheels repeating stuff.

The problem is how you get CP, right now its centered around quests and Craglorn mob grinding. Not in the other areas, like PvP and trials. So there is no benefit to doing them if you hope to get stronger from it.

Guppet

Choose non participation. It's simple, it's only a rat race if you let it be. Exactly what content is currently out that can't be completed with a low number of CP? What content is due out that we need high levels of CP for? Future content won't even need you to be a set level.

The only place it matters in the slightest is PVP, even then only in a fair fight and how often do they happen?

You can let CP rule your playing time, or you can look past it and just have fun.

firstdecan

Guppet wrote: »

Choose non participation. It's simple, it's only a rat race if you let it be. Exactly what content is currently out that can't be completed with a low number of CP? What content is due out that we need high levels of CP for? Future content won't even need you to be a set level.

The only place it matters in the slightest is PVP, even then only in a fair fight and how often do they happen?

You can let CP rule your playing time, or you can look past it and just have fun.

This is really the crux of it. IMO - if PvP players feel too hamstrung by the champion system, if they feel there is too high of a barrier of entry to be reasonably competitive, they simply won't play. PvP was my favorite aspect of the game since beta, and it seems to have died out (only 1 serious running campaign in North America). There are many other issues with the PvP aside from the CS system, but the disparity that will grow and become apparent in a few months is like throwing fuel on the fire.

Outside of PvP who really cares, the content you're playing is not competitive. For many people, PvP was the real draw to this game, and its failure is the reason many people have gotten bored of the game and quit. Adding another hurdle to enjoying this aspect of the game is not going to attract new players. Granted, my entire post may be a moot point since ZoS does not seem willing or able to make PvP the premier feature it was intended to be.

edit: typo.

eventide03b14a_ESO

firstdecan wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Choose non participation. It's simple, it's only a rat race if you let it be. Exactly what content is currently out that can't be completed with a low number of CP? What content is due out that we need high levels of CP for? Future content won't even need you to be a set level.

The only place it matters in the slightest is PVP, even then only in a fair fight and how often do they happen?

You can let CP rule your playing time, or you can look past it and just have fun.

This is really the crux of it. IMO - if PvP players feel too hamstrung by the champion system, if they feel there is too high of a barrier of entry to be reasonably competitive, they simply won't play. PvP was my favorite aspect of the game since beta, and it seems to have died out (only 1 serious running campaign in North America). There are many other issues with the PvP aside from the CS system, but the disparity that will grow and become apparent in a few months is like throwing fuel on the fire.

Outside of PvP who really cares, the content you're playing is not competitive. For many people, PvP was the real draw to this game, and its failure is the reason many people have gotten bored of the game and quit. Adding another hurdle to enjoying this aspect of the game is not going to attract new players. Granted, my entire post may be a moot point since ZoS does not seem willing or able to make PvP the premier feature it was intended to be.

edit: typo.

For me personally the thing that made PvP fun is exactly what the problem is. Large scale battles like we had pre 1.3 are near impossible for any extended period because they have yet to correct the lag issue effecting Cyrodiil. Another problem is that since they removed forward camps you basically just run back an forth between an outpost and a keep with neither side holding one or the other for any real length of time. Instead of simply making it so that the forward camps had a spawn radius and prevented death porting, they removed them entirely as a solution. So yeah PvP has become a bit tedious and boring when you can actually participate in it.

firstdecan

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Choose non participation. It's simple, it's only a rat race if you let it be. Exactly what content is currently out that can't be completed with a low number of CP? What content is due out that we need high levels of CP for? Future content won't even need you to be a set level.

The only place it matters in the slightest is PVP, even then only in a fair fight and how often do they happen?

You can let CP rule your playing time, or you can look past it and just have fun.

This is really the crux of it. IMO - if PvP players feel too hamstrung by the champion system, if they feel there is too high of a barrier of entry to be reasonably competitive, they simply won't play. PvP was my favorite aspect of the game since beta, and it seems to have died out (only 1 serious running campaign in North America). There are many other issues with the PvP aside from the CS system, but the disparity that will grow and become apparent in a few months is like throwing fuel on the fire.

Outside of PvP who really cares, the content you're playing is not competitive. For many people, PvP was the real draw to this game, and its failure is the reason many people have gotten bored of the game and quit. Adding another hurdle to enjoying this aspect of the game is not going to attract new players. Granted, my entire post may be a moot point since ZoS does not seem willing or able to make PvP the premier feature it was intended to be.

edit: typo.

For me personally the thing that made PvP fun is exactly what the problem is. Large scale battles like we had pre 1.3 are near impossible for any extended period because they have yet to correct the lag issue effecting Cyrodiil. Another problem is that since they removed forward camps you basically just run back an forth between an outpost and a keep with neither side holding one or the other for any real length of time. Instead of simply making it so that the forward camps had a spawn radius and prevented death porting, they removed them entirely as a solution. So yeah PvP has become a bit tedious and boring when you can actually participate in it.

Completely agree - and to bring it back around to the thread topic (I started the derail, my fault), PvP was the only aspect of the game that didn't become predictable. Everything else is repeating the same quests, running the same dungeons over and over, collecting mats, or now thievery. It's just farming, over and over and over.

Robbmrp

1.6 has only been out a week now and there are already people with 150 CP, double more than we started with. CP is a great idea but it's not going to do anything except further distance players from one another. People you gamed with last week will be running with a different group next week because you don't have the same amount of CP as they do. This is going to make it harder to find groups yet again because if your not a V14 with X amount of CP you won't be invited to groups.

Seriously, why should someone with 150 CP run with those at 70-90? They can kill things faster, manage their resources more and will want to do the harder content faster to maximize their XP.

As for PVP, what's the point in doing it when there's a huge CP gap? Who want's to get one shotted over and over again. I sure don't as it's just not fun.

asteldian

Why would you group with someone with less CP? Coz they are friends? Guildies? Fun people to be around?
I group with VR1-14 for dungeons or whatever we fancy doing.
The only people who exclude low CP guys are the hardcores that grindthis crap out for faster leaderboard times. If you are one of those player types, chances are you already don't group with them anyway. For non leaderboard types CP is not an issue.

For competitive PvP it is an issue. Lucky for me my PvP skills are average at best, when I die I assume its coz I suck, now it may be because they have lots of CP...or it could still be coz I suck, at least I have something to blame it on though!
Likely in time PvP will bolster CP to even the playing field and minimise the disparity.

AlnilamE

Robbmrp wrote: »

People you gamed with last week will be running with a different group next week because you don't have the same amount of CP as they do. This is going to make it harder to find groups yet again because if your not a V14 with X amount of CP you won't be invited to groups.

People I gamed with last week will still game with me next week regardless of how many CP each of us has and vice-versa.

Ashigaru

Ishammael wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/149933/why-champion-system-will-kill-the-game-if-its-implemented-as-is Been saying it since CS was on PTS.

Magnus is right. Many in my PvP guild are now experiencing the Champion System without having tried it on PTS -- and they don't like it. Here's the deal: 1.6 fixed a ton things that needed fixing. It broke some stuff, too. But the Champion System is a fundamental gameplay device which people will tire of quickly.

EverQuest has the same thing except called AA's or Alternate Advancements and it was a huge hindrance after awhile you were not looked at as a player but by how many AA you had when it came to grouping, raiding or getting into a guild. It is a huge hindrance to a new player and EQ finally setup bonus xp on AA till a certain number were attained and to boost people up.

Dont kid yourselves its just a device to keep you playing (grinding) and keep you here also its a great mechanic to make you pay real cash for xp potions in the store.

Ashigaru

Robbmrp wrote: »

1.6 has only been out a week now and there are already people with 150 CP, double more than we started with. CP is a great idea but it's not going to do anything except further distance players from one another. People you gamed with last week will be running with a different group next week because you don't have the same amount of CP as they do. This is going to make it harder to find groups yet again because if your not a V14 with X amount of CP you won't be invited to groups.

Seriously, why should someone with 150 CP run with those at 70-90? They can kill things faster, manage their resources more and will want to do the harder content faster to maximize their XP.

As for PVP, what's the point in doing it when there's a huge CP gap? Who want's to get one shotted over and over again. I sure don't as it's just not fun.

Who really care how many they have, i know people that have done nothing but grind since 1.6, if thats what they want to do then its their right to choose to do that. Just because it makes you feel bad because someone has more than you is no reason to screw with people or the xp of the game.

lishiping84

Guppet wrote: »

Choose non participation. It's simple, it's only a rat race if you let it be. Exactly what content is currently out that can't be completed with a low number of CP? What content is due out that we need high levels of CP for? Future content won't even need you to be a set level.

The only place it matters in the slightest is PVP, even then only in a fair fight and how often do they happen?

You can let CP rule your playing time, or you can look past it and just have fun.

yeah we can ignore CPs since its too hard to get

but ppl who grinding all days wont ignore their effort. they will set bars for gouping.

lishiping84

firstdecan wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Choose non participation. It's simple, it's only a rat race if you let it be. Exactly what content is currently out that can't be completed with a low number of CP? What content is due out that we need high levels of CP for? Future content won't even need you to be a set level.

The only place it matters in the slightest is PVP, even then only in a fair fight and how often do they happen?

You can let CP rule your playing time, or you can look past it and just have fun.

This is really the crux of it. IMO - if PvP players feel too hamstrung by the champion system, if they feel there is too high of a barrier of entry to be reasonably competitive, they simply won't play. PvP was my favorite aspect of the game since beta, and it seems to have died out (only 1 serious running campaign in North America). There are many other issues with the PvP aside from the CS system, but the disparity that will grow and become apparent in a few months is like throwing fuel on the fire.

Outside of PvP who really cares, the content you're playing is not competitive. For many people, PvP was the real draw to this game, and its failure is the reason many people have gotten bored of the game and quit. Adding another hurdle to enjoying this aspect of the game is not going to attract new players. Granted, my entire post may be a moot point since ZoS does not seem willing or able to make PvP the premier feature it was intended to be.

edit: typo.

PvE is not that simple as u imagine. The rage between teammates it happens all the time. The complaining of low DPS and incompetent Healer or fail tank is always happening. I just failed today's pledge on the last 2nd boss, which never been a problem before, and i don't even know what's wrong there.

TehMagnus

lishiping84 wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Choose non participation. It's simple, it's only a rat race if you let it be. Exactly what content is currently out that can't be completed with a low number of CP? What content is due out that we need high levels of CP for? Future content won't even need you to be a set level.

The only place it matters in the slightest is PVP, even then only in a fair fight and how often do they happen?

You can let CP rule your playing time, or you can look past it and just have fun.

yeah we can ignore CPs since its too hard to get

but ppl who grinding all days wont ignore their effort. they will set bars for gouping.

Even id they didn't, once people get 500 CP they won't want to group with people who have 100 and people who have 100 won't like the fact that even if they are @ max level, they aren't accepted in groups because they actually really aren't max level.

EQ might have introduced potions & stuff for people to catch up but that didn't make many new players join.

If you want to look at a successful game, look at what FF XIV is doing, they got more than 3M players, no F2P or B2P and the max level is still 50, they might not have wasted millions to have actors voice over their NPCs but they invested the money instead into a plentiful of lore and an interesting story (and they had the decency to drop subs after the initial failed launch and while they where basically remaking the whole game).

In one year, this game will be to new players what EQ or DAOC was to new players after 5 years of existence, the "old MMO symptom".

jeevin

Besides a game that is set within The Elder Scrolls universe, what does this game really offer? A great 1-50 experience built on substandard software. Laggy combat. Bugs galore(still). Unplayable pvp. RNG in dungeons that stifles rewards. The biggest grind ever seen, it's like the devs don't actually want players to gain Champion Points that they spent months developing. The biggest Nerf bat I've ever seen deployed by a game developer, if there's something to gain for a reasonable time looking within the game, be it rare mats, items or motif drops, Zos will nerf it. No reward for you. The road ahead is one of utter confusion for me as Zos seems to do everything within their power to try to stop players from playing the game.

Edhelas_Naven

Ever wondered now why you have 8 character slots?

Doing the math, let us ignore that you can have a maximum of 100 points in a star and just focus on achieving 120 points in one constellation of each Warrior/Thief/Mage. Any more point past 120 in a given constellation I think will not necesarry give you more huge bonuses, would probably be best to spend it on another constellation in the same star system.

We already have approximately 20 CP in Warrior/Thief/Mage from the 70CP we get.
(120 - 20) * 3 = 300CP needed to achieve 120 in each Warrior/Thief/Mage system.

400K XP for each CP
300 * 400K = 120 Mil XP

14 Vet Ranks, each with 1 Mil XP + an extra 1 Mil XP after Vet 14 = 15 Vet Ranks

120 / 15 = 8, That is 8 Vet 15 character.

But wait that is not all. Another way to see this. Assume you had only one Vet character that earned you the 70CP after launch of 1.6, your next Vet 15 character will earn you approximately 37 CP (15Mil / 400K). So 7 Vet 15 (7 * 37 CP) plus the conversion 70CP is 329CP.

I see alot of people, especially in guild and zone chat focusing too much on attaining the maximum 3600 CP, that is 4 stars in all 9 constellation with a maximum of 100 CP each. GOD MODE FTW!

Yes it is a grind but I believe that once they open up the map of Tamriel, there will be enough to earn an optimal 329CP to build each character up. Perhaps they could put a limit on how much CP a Character spends to be 300 so that PVP at least will be fair after some time when alot of players have been able to gain that amount through the various content that will become available in time.

We just need content and I believe once there is more places on Tamriel to go and hopefully they limit every character to about 300CP then many may stop raging about it. Regardless, I still hate Cadwells Silver and Gold method of getting to Vet 12, but I really enjoyed listening to the, hmm soul shriven, when I first played it through on my main.

The question now is, how will this play out when they remove Vet ranks? As long as the 400K XP for each CP remains, the calculations are almost the same.

Yes I have not considered the time factor. Unfortunately every adventurer needs time to hone in his/her skills, thats all I can say.

Edit typo.

Messy1

firstdecan wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Choose non participation. It's simple, it's only a rat race if you let it be. Exactly what content is currently out that can't be completed with a low number of CP? What content is due out that we need high levels of CP for? Future content won't even need you to be a set level.

The only place it matters in the slightest is PVP, even then only in a fair fight and how often do they happen?

You can let CP rule your playing time, or you can look past it and just have fun.

This is really the crux of it. IMO - if PvP players feel too hamstrung by the champion system, if they feel there is too high of a barrier of entry to be reasonably competitive, they simply won't play. PvP was my favorite aspect of the game since beta, and it seems to have died out (only 1 serious running campaign in North America). There are many other issues with the PvP aside from the CS system, but the disparity that will grow and become apparent in a few months is like throwing fuel on the fire.

Outside of PvP who really cares, the content you're playing is not competitive. For many people, PvP was the real draw to this game, and its failure is the reason many people have gotten bored of the game and quit. Adding another hurdle to enjoying this aspect of the game is not going to attract new players. Granted, my entire post may be a moot point since ZoS does not seem willing or able to make PvP the premier feature it was intended to be.

edit: typo.

Yes, I agree, I was so excited for PvP. I still love PvP, but it needs to be a smoother experience. The silence we get in return to our inquiries on PvP progress is horrendous. Cyrodil is the center of Tamriel it needs attention big time!

Seraphyel

Road Ahead? Milk customers whilst announcing stuff that never ever will hit live servers like they did the last year.

Kragorn

Ashigaru wrote: »

Dont kid yourselves its just a device to keep you playing (grinding) and keep you here also its a great mechanic to make you pay real cash for xp potions in the store.

I gotta say I think this as well, it has so many echoes of what Turbine did to LoTRO when the Store came into being, not long after we began to see this sort of thing, where the game's design was deliberately and overtly focused on 'driving' Store sales.

It seems to me the fact ZOS haven't made Enlightenment into REAL rested XP, but a bastardised version simply aimed at giving a relatively trivial boost to CP production, clearly show their design decisions are now based on the same principle as Turbine: 'boost' potions are their future revenue stream.

lishiping84

Edhelas_Naven wrote: »

Ever wondered now why you have 8 character slots?

We just need content and I believe once there is more places on Tamriel to go and hopefully they limit every character to about 300CP then many may stop raging about it. Regardless, I still hate Cadwells Silver and Gold method of getting to Vet 12, but I really enjoyed listening to the, hmm soul shriven, when I first played it through on my main.

Edit typo.

I believe some of the crazy players will get full CP even before the new content available. For a lot of them, Full CP is the start of the ending content.

and don't mention Cadwell, I hate him. The reward he gave me for finishing gold is a typical blow. Even the ending of Mass effect 3 is better than that lol.

Anyway, i've subscribed this game for 1 year, despite half year afk. maybe its time to afk again...of course with canceling the sub. There are plenty of other things need to be attend. Don't even mention that there are plenty of other games there. Maybe MMO is not for me.