1 Hour of PvE Grinding = 4 Champion Points, 4 hours of Cyrodiil = 1/8th a point

Ezareth

So after I spent about 4-5 hours in Cyrodiil after 1.6 and racked up a total of 57K towards my first Champion Point. I got sick of the lack of progression, put on my robe and wizard hat and headed out to care bear land. I did a single Undaunted Vet dungeon and made about 200K. Not too bad considering it worked out to about 8 times the exp I was making PvPing even with the many PvE failures of our group. However I hate vet dungeons, so I wanted to try something else. I grabbed a grinding partner and decided to AoE grind. I made 1.5 Million exp in an hour. I'm earning literally 100 times the exp AoE grinding mobs than I was making PvPing.

Now I'm faced with a choice. Do something I hate that greatly improves my character or do something that I love instead and become weaker as time goes by and everyone else passes me.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler this needs fixed! Exp in Cyrodiil cannot remain so low with the new Champion System progression.

Oughash

But Ez... don't you just love pushing the impulse button ten thousands times in a row to kill mobs? I mean, think of all the artwork that went into those monsters! They're scary and tough! Can you feel yourself getting stronker every time you impulse? I know I do. Its like getting a pump in the gym, but all day long. I feel sooooo strong and swoll. Just pumping all day long.

Talcyndl

I get CP many times faster just running around Craglorn collecting mats and killing the mobs that get in the way compared to even intense PvP in Cyrodiil. That's just casually running around Craglorn.

Combined with the broken nirnhoned trait, radiant destruction spam and severe large keep battle lag...

This is the first time I've really lost interest in Cyrodiil.

Huntler

Ezareth, an undaunted dungeon doesn't give 200k exp unless you're enlightened so I think your numbers might be a little skewed. Besides that point obviously grinding is much better than pvp when it comes to exp thought. You shouldn't expect 4 champ points an hour doing undaunted dailies its actually pretty garbage exp compared to actual grinding.

Talcyndl

Huntler wrote: »

Ezareth, an undaunted dungeon doesn't give 200k exp unless you're enlightened so I think your numbers might be a little skewed. Besides that point obviously grinding is much better than pvp when it comes to exp thought. You shouldn't expect 4 champ points an hour doing undaunted dailies its actually pretty garbage exp compared to actual grinding.

Obviously grinding (by definition) is going to give the most CP. The problem is that PvP gives much less CP than doing almost anything outside of Cyrodiil.

Heck, running around stealing oats out of barrels seems to give more CP than fighting in Cyrodiil.

Elsonso

Wow.

They really need to nerf PVE CP grinding. That is way too fast, as people predicted.

RinaldoGandolphi

True, they do need to up Exp gain in Cyrodiil. they gotta be careful though, as in PVP you could have huge zerg fests netting 400,000k Exp every 15 mins(including massive dticks) if you make players worth too much, everyone knows how easy it can be to farm pugs at resources and outposts at times.

While the PVE side is more Exp gain, its also more controllable as ZOS can simply nerf grinding, changing trash respawn rates and numbers, make them stronger, Exp gains, etc, and also long as the shiny gear folks want is their, folks will still go after it...in other words, ZOS has much more wiggle room with the carrot in PVE then they do in PVP.

If they up Exp gains in Cyrodiil to match current PVE gains, then they will have to make it where you can't get Enlightened or Enlightenment bonus at all while your in Cyrodiil as it will be easy for some groups to farm pugs indefinitely and outpace PVE CP gain's Exp by 2-3x what they are currently getting PVE.

This is a really tough position for ZOS to be in. As much as i hate to say it, i think they need to leave it as is for right now. This is something that is going to take a lot of thought to get right, as players find ways to farm Exp, and Cyrodiil will be the easiest place by far to do that due to human nature and tendencies.

I think maybe lowering the gains in PVE may be the better route to go sadly. I don't envy ZOS position, thats for sure. I think this may be why Exp gains are how they are in PVP because they probably identified internally quite a few ways folks could farm insane amounts of CP and they didn't want folks doing that, not saying i blame them mind you.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

How did you manage to get so much out of a vet dungeon? I got like 25k, and that includes the pledge quest.

Manoekin

You had Enlightenment EZ, which gives you around 4x the amount of exp.

Huntler

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

How did you manage to get so much out of a vet dungeon? I got like 25k, and that includes the pledge quest.

As both mano and I stated he was clearly enlightened. The math for 1 vet daily equates to in the 200k range if you're enlightened, and about 60k total if you are not (quest, mobs, etc.)

Ezareth

Huntler wrote: »

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

How did you manage to get so much out of a vet dungeon? I got like 25k, and that includes the pledge quest.

As both mano and I stated he was clearly enlightened. The math for 1 vet daily equates to in the 200k range if you're enlightened, and about 60k total if you are not (quest, mobs, etc.)

Yes in all examples I was enlightened, and sadly my group had some issues with the dungeon (and I haven't done PvE in 4 months so I was pretty rusty too) so we also had some mob respawns in there. I spent 2 hours and many many wipes for something that an optimal group could have completed in 15-30 minutes(or probably less). There is definitely room for improvement in my vet dungeon numbers.

As with everything, the more you do something the better you get. I'm sure that many other players can grind exp much faster than I can while I was playing in Cyrodiil too, but I also feel that most players will be doing worse than I have.

On the AoE Grinding I'm confident that even without Enlightened I can get 2 Champion Points an hour. I probably wasn't even in that best possible farming spot, just the first one we tried. I think even the top groups and players in Cyrodiil will be lucky to get a single champion point in Cyrodiil in a Day.

I'm not sure exactly what determines Enlightened or how much of it we'll all get every day but it is a force multiplier that rewards players equally no matter what they do. Getting anywhere from 15-25 times the (unenlightened)Exp grinding mobs compared to PvPing is something that I feel actually *punishes* you for doing what you enjoy.

Unlike the V10, V12, and V14 grinds, the Champion point system isn't something that you keep your nose to the grindstone on until you're at the end in a week or two. This is something where the light at the end of the tunnel is years away...not weeks away.

DeLindsay

• 4 Hours of Ranking up Legerdemain = CP counter barely moved.
• Farming mats for hours = No CP at all.
• Roleplaying = No CP at all.
• Crafting/Research/Deconstructing gear = No CP at all.
• Vet Dungeon clears = CP counter barely moved.
• Trial clears = CP counter barely moved.
• Crafting Writs (all 6) = CP counter barely moved.
• PvP = CP counter barely moved.

The only valid way to gain CP is to hope and pray to find a spot to Grind tirelessly or do the same repeatable/daily quests over and over again because you've already completed all of Silver/Gold and every Zone quest. We gave very good feedback during PTS about how ZoS could remedy this and they literally didn't listen.

Lord_Hev

Ezareth wrote: »

I grabbed a grinding partner and decided to AoE grind. I made 1.5 Million exp in an hour.

WHERE? 1.5 mill exp an hour??

Joy_Division

I earned like 1 and 1/2 champion points last night while being enlightened doing regular DSA and Vet pledge.

I think the main reason Cyrodiil pales in comparsion is the removal of forward camps has dramatically deceased the amount of time people are in combat. Last night I estimated I spent more than half of my time waiting at keeps and looking at my map trying to figure out where the big battle would show up.

Zenimax never adjusted the amount of AP and XP gain to compensate for the removal of forward camps.

WRX

We all knew it'd be like this. Lets just keep it quite and move on, won't be seeing any fix soon. Thanks.

Huntler

Its why they designed the enlightenment system, it seems like they don't want players to really be able to push leveling it. You get 1 free point a day, couple extra if you really grind hard... but don't worry... those who grind hard will get burnt out and quit long before they hit 3600

Ezareth

Huntler wrote: »

Its why they designed the enlightenment system, it seems like they don't want players to really be able to push leveling it. You get 1 free point a day, couple extra if you really grind hard... but don't worry... those who grind hard will get burnt out and quit long before they hit 3600

What I don't understand is how I got so much Enlightenment. I got almost 3 enlightenment worth of exp in a single night.

The odd thing is the partner I was grinding with got 1 point to my 4. I don't know if this was intended or a bug but I'm not feeling good about the stability of this system right now.

Tripwyr

Ezareth wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Its why they designed the enlightenment system, it seems like they don't want players to really be able to push leveling it. You get 1 free point a day, couple extra if you really grind hard... but don't worry... those who grind hard will get burnt out and quit long before they hit 3600

What I don't understand is how I got so much Enlightenment. I got almost 3 enlightenment worth of exp in a single night.

The odd thing is the partner I was grinding with got 1 point to my 4. I don't know if this was intended or a bug but I'm not feeling good about the stability of this system right now.

Originally they were playing around with 300-400% increased champion point experience for enlightenment, it looks like they went with 400%. However, I have not seen this stated officially, so I'm not certain what the precise numbers are.

Ezareth

Tripwyr wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Its why they designed the enlightenment system, it seems like they don't want players to really be able to push leveling it. You get 1 free point a day, couple extra if you really grind hard... but don't worry... those who grind hard will get burnt out and quit long before they hit 3600

What I don't understand is how I got so much Enlightenment. I got almost 3 enlightenment worth of exp in a single night.

The odd thing is the partner I was grinding with got 1 point to my 4. I don't know if this was intended or a bug but I'm not feeling good about the stability of this system right now.

Originally they were playing around with 300-400% increased champion point experience for enlightenment, it looks like they went with 400%. However, I have not seen this stated officially, so I'm not certain what the precise numbers are.

Yes I figured that it was 400% but 400% *and* ~1.4 million exp worth in a single night? I wish there was more transparency around how this system works.

How could it be possible that two people with active subscriptions who play every day can have such disparate levels of enlightenment? I hit Champion Point level 74 and the person I was grinding with who was present the entire time only hit Level 71. I'm concerned that I experienced some sort of bug that others could be exploiting for insane CP right now. If this is the case, the first few weeks of this system is going to be crucial and there is no taking away points from people once they've earned them (as was the case with people getting VR14 in the first day of the patch by exploiting scorpion farming etc).

cozmon3c_ESO

running around solo and small group i netted around .6 to my first cp level on the first night after 5 hours of play, no enlightenment. the next day i played for a few hours same style, with enlightenment and netted 1 cp (.6 to 1.6). so im looking at earning only one cp point a day lol, how long is that again? over 2 years or something to max out. i have guildies grinding some place and pve and they are getting 4-5 champion points per day over the last 2 days. so, pretty big disparity there, why is zos making us do stuff we hate if we want to be competitive, not many people like grinding mindlessly.

i wouldnt be surprised if they have it this high on purpose so when march 17th hits those people can catch up. so about around april 17th they will adjust it down becuase thats when a good chunk of those new players will be v1 to v14. were all just wasting our time because they all have it planned out to drop the amount you need to get one cp point to about an hour, like they initially said was the goal they were shooting for back during the guild summit.

Pirhana7_ESO

If you really want to spend most your time doing PVE to get a minor advantage in PVP go for it. I will be having fun doing what i want which is PVP and gain C XP fast enough which is really just like a very small bonus for playing the game.

On another note.. all this time you spend PVE grining will put you so far behind in Alliance ranks and campaign score competatition and rewards that you will never be able to catch up to those that just PVP for C XP

Pirhana7_ESO

DeLindsay wrote: »

• 4 Hours of Ranking up Legerdemain = CP counter barely moved.
• Farming mats for hours = No CP at all.
• Roleplaying = No CP at all.
• Crafting/Research/Deconstructing gear = No CP at all.
• Vet Dungeon clears = CP counter barely moved.
• Trial clears = CP counter barely moved.
• Crafting Writs (all 6) = CP counter barely moved.
• PvP = CP counter barely moved.

The only valid way to gain CP is to hope and pray to find a spot to Grind tirelessly or do the same repeatable/daily quests over and over again because you've already completed all of Silver/Gold and every Zone quest. We gave very good feedback during PTS about how ZoS could remedy this and they literally didn't listen.

The problem is you are looking at Champion points like you need them all before you can play and compete... You dont! Just play the game. They are like a small bonus for just playing and over a very long period of time you will get slightly stronger.

Huntler

Ezareth wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Its why they designed the enlightenment system, it seems like they don't want players to really be able to push leveling it. You get 1 free point a day, couple extra if you really grind hard... but don't worry... those who grind hard will get burnt out and quit long before they hit 3600

What I don't understand is how I got so much Enlightenment. I got almost 3 enlightenment worth of exp in a single night.

The odd thing is the partner I was grinding with got 1 point to my 4. I don't know if this was intended or a bug but I'm not feeling good about the stability of this system right now.

Originally they were playing around with 300-400% increased champion point experience for enlightenment, it looks like they went with 400%. However, I have not seen this stated officially, so I'm not certain what the precise numbers are.

Yes I figured that it was 400% but 400% *and* ~1.4 million exp worth in a single night? I wish there was more transparency around how this system works.

How could it be possible that two people with active subscriptions who play every day can have such disparate levels of enlightenment? I hit Champion Point level 74 and the person I was grinding with who was present the entire time only hit Level 71. I'm concerned that I experienced some sort of bug that others could be exploiting for insane CP right now. If this is the case, the first few weeks of this system is going to be crucial and there is no taking away points from people once they've earned them (as was the case with people getting VR14 in the first day of the patch by exploiting scorpion farming etc).

This, they originally stated how it was going to work, but it clearly seems they changed it. Still testing the waters and there is obviously a strong possibility of a bug where people aren't getting their enlightenment. They stated in the general forms they are looking into these claims so lets just keep an eye out.

Ezareth

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

If you really want to spend most your time doing PVE to get a minor advantage in PVP go for it. I will be having fun doing what i want which is PVP and gain C XP fast enough which is really just like a very small bonus for playing the game.

On another note.. all this time you spend PVE grining will put you so far behind in Alliance ranks and campaign score competatition and rewards that you will never be able to catch up to those that just PVP for C XP

Once you get Assault/Support 10 the extra Alliance ranks might as well be Carebear titles. There really isn't any reward to grind PvP experience beyond that....it's not like anyone needs more skillpoints.

If you'd played on PTS you'd realize just how insane the difference between someone with no CP versus someone with Max CP is.

DeLindsay

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

The problem is you are looking at Champion points like you need them all before you can play and compete... You dont! Just play the game. They are like a small bonus for just playing and over a very long period of time you will get slightly stronger.

You are not remotely correct in your understanding of my post. I'm perfectly fine with the starting 70 CP and most of my builds are stronger now than they were before 1.6 hit Live. I was simply stating the MASSIVE disparity in XP gain which converts to CP gain within the various playstyles in ESO. With XP the way it stands right now, ZoS is saying to the general population of this game, "If you want CP gain at any reasonable rate, you are going to have to Grind it out or level another Veteran to Quest it out". No other method of gameplay remotely touches the XP gain of those 2 playstyles, not even close.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

Huntler wrote: »

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

How did you manage to get so much out of a vet dungeon? I got like 25k, and that includes the pledge quest.

As both mano and I stated he was clearly enlightened. The math for 1 vet daily equates to in the 200k range if you're enlightened, and about 60k total if you are not (quest, mobs, etc.)

I know you`ve been enlightened, was just curious because I haven`t seen anyone getting more than 30k from a vet pledge (no enlightment).

Huntler

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

How did you manage to get so much out of a vet dungeon? I got like 25k, and that includes the pledge quest.

As both mano and I stated he was clearly enlightened. The math for 1 vet daily equates to in the 200k range if you're enlightened, and about 60k total if you are not (quest, mobs, etc.)

I know you`ve been enlightened, was just curious because I haven`t seen anyone getting more than 30k from a vet pledge (no enlightment).

We talking just the quest or all the mobs inside? Think the quest might be 30k with no enlightenment, but if you include everything its somewhere closer to the 50-60k range... but I guess it probably also depends on the dungeon.... Regardless its garbage exp is the point

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

Huntler wrote: »

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

How did you manage to get so much out of a vet dungeon? I got like 25k, and that includes the pledge quest.

As both mano and I stated he was clearly enlightened. The math for 1 vet daily equates to in the 200k range if you're enlightened, and about 60k total if you are not (quest, mobs, etc.)

I know you`ve been enlightened, was just curious because I haven`t seen anyone getting more than 30k from a vet pledge (no enlightment).

We talking just the quest or all the mobs inside? Think the quest might be 30k with no enlightenment, but if you include everything its somewhere closer to the 50-60k range... but I guess it probably also depends on the dungeon.... Regardless its garbage exp is the point

Everything, the quest itself is 11k xp.

LonePirate

DeLindsay wrote: »

• 4 Hours of Ranking up Legerdemain = CP counter barely moved.
• Farming mats for hours = No CP at all.
• Roleplaying = No CP at all.
• Crafting/Research/Deconstructing gear = No CP at all.
• Vet Dungeon clears = CP counter barely moved.
• Trial clears = CP counter barely moved.
• Crafting Writs (all 6) = CP counter barely moved.
• PvP = CP counter barely moved.

The only valid way to gain CP is to hope and pray to find a spot to Grind tirelessly or do the same repeatable/daily quests over and over again because you've already completed all of Silver/Gold and every Zone quest. We gave very good feedback during PTS about how ZoS could remedy this and they literally didn't listen.

In ZOS' defense, they have undoubtedly been busy cranking out shiny new clothes, potions and mounts for the cash shop. There is simply not enough time in the work week to deliver solutions to this XP/CP problem while also increasing the number of vanity and P2W options in the cash shop. Very few players will ever reach 1000 CPs; but there are countless chumps who will spend $5 on a shiny, new costume.

Psilent

Ezareth wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Its why they designed the enlightenment system, it seems like they don't want players to really be able to push leveling it. You get 1 free point a day, couple extra if you really grind hard... but don't worry... those who grind hard will get burnt out and quit long before they hit 3600

What I don't understand is how I got so much Enlightenment. I got almost 3 enlightenment worth of exp in a single night.

The odd thing is the partner I was grinding with got 1 point to my 4. I don't know if this was intended or a bug but I'm not feeling good about the stability of this system right now.

Originally they were playing around with 300-400% increased champion point experience for enlightenment, it looks like they went with 400%. However, I have not seen this stated officially, so I'm not certain what the precise numbers are.

Yes I figured that it was 400% but 400% *and* ~1.4 million exp worth in a single night? I wish there was more transparency around how this system works.

How could it be possible that two people with active subscriptions who play every day can have such disparate levels of enlightenment? I hit Champion Point level 74 and the person I was grinding with who was present the entire time only hit Level 71. I'm concerned that I experienced some sort of bug that others could be exploiting for insane CP right now. If this is the case, the first few weeks of this system is going to be crucial and there is no taking away points from people once they've earned them (as was the case with people getting VR14 in the first day of the patch by exploiting scorpion farming etc).

Today I got 4 CP all with Enlightenment and am 1/4 of the way through my fifth point, still with enlightenment. A friend of mine had barely any enlightenment today and struggled to get 1 CP.

There is a guy in one of my guilds who said in guild chat he's gotten 12 CP so far. If this is a bug, it needs to be fixed soon!

Rylana

Doing Cyrodiil kill quests, and a couple capture quests tonight, with about 150 kills and other misc, I racked up over 650k XP tonight in three hours in Cyrodiil.

Each kill quest is worth about 45k
Each cap quest is about 25k
Each tick is 1908 XP
Each kill varies but it adds up.