[Forum Suggestion] Adding Back the Disagree Option

Taz

I think it might be very helpful to have the disagree option returned. Perhaps not providing any negative effects to the person being disagreed with, but I actually think this option could help foster discussion rather than inhibit it. I know that people ought to give more detailed voices/concerns, and still should even with a disagree option, but the same could be said of just clicking agree instead of potentially adding on or explaining why one agrees.

Another issue with only having 'agree' (and the other two) as an option is that folks, both players and ZOS, might get an inaccurate idea of how many people actually agree with a sentiment. They might be prone to think that theirs is the prominent voice because they have a handful of agrees and consider that a good platform to stand upon, while conveniently ignoring the disagrees voiced on a thread and even disagrees that people might not be inclined to voice whether it be from shyness, fear of harassment, etc.

I also think 'disagree' is a lot less passive aggressive than the alternatives that seem to pop up (for example, LOL previously, and now apparently insightful). Now that LOL is gone I no longer know if people find me insightful or just plain dumb. Put disagree back in please!

Quick edit: With disagree in, LOL could also just resume being the 'hey you said something legitimately funny and I'm not being passive aggessive at all, here, have sweetrolls and hugs' button.

dharbert

There should only be two buttons, agree and disagree. Or, better yet, no buttons at all. If you disagree, then don't be a passive-aggresive pansy. Let the OP know why you disagree.

Gidorick

I think an upvote downvote option would work well. The most upvoted topics would be the most visible. There does need to be a way to quickly disagree with a post.

Folkb

I disagree with this thread.

Artemiisia

me2 Folkb, I disagree with OP as well

Slurg

^^Without a disagree button, people are forced to post one liners stating that they disagree.

Or post much lengthier responses. But sometimes people just disagree and a lengthy response is not needed.

Edit: To be clear I agree that we could use a button to disagree.

cyqa

Gidorick wrote: »

I think an upvote downvote option would work well. The most upvoted topics would be the most visible. There does need to be a way to quickly disagree with a post.

Isn't this how reddit works?

(Serious question, I don't use reddit)

ZOS_GinaBruno

Good feedback, @Taz. It's something we're currently exploring, along with the possibility of having an up vote and down vote system (where enough down votes would hide a post). What do you guys think about that?

Zershar_Vemod

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Good feedback, @Taz. It's something we're currently exploring, along with the possibility of having an up vote and down vote system (where enough down votes would hide a post). What do you guys think about that?

Depends on the specifics of "enough" down votes; as far as making a post disappear, that is asking for abuse to be honest.

I'm for having 'disagree' back though nonetheless.

Vulix

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Good feedback, @Taz. It's something we're currently exploring, along with the possibility of having an up vote and down vote system (where enough down votes would hide a post). What do you guys think about that?

I think I would rather see spell crafting and other actual content added to the game

dharbert

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Good feedback, @Taz. It's something we're currently exploring, along with the possibility of having an up vote and down vote system (where enough down votes would hide a post). What do you guys think about that?

Down votes hiding a post? Absolutely not. That only invites trolls to downvote posts and keeps opinions from being heard. Players have the right to voice their opinion, popular or not. I can't believe you'd even consider that.

Taz

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Good feedback, @Taz. It's something we're currently exploring, along with the possibility of having an up vote and down vote system (where enough down votes would hide a post). What do you guys think about that?

I think, as @Gidorick said above, an upvote/downvote system that makes upvoted posts somehow more visible without just crushing new points with no votes at all, would be good. Or perhaps just make more downvoted posts less visible. I think if many downvotes hide a post (but hide it like under a spoiler type of notice where you can still read it if you so choose) would be great.

Edit:

dharbert wrote: »

Down votes hiding a post? Absolutely not. That only invites trolls to downvote posts and keeps opinions from being heard. Players have the right to voice their opinion, popular or not. I can't believe you'd even consider that.

It should be a high number of downvotes, at the very least. And not delete the post entirely, just put it under a spoiler-type notice.

ZOS_GinaBruno

Taz wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Good feedback, @Taz. It's something we're currently exploring, along with the possibility of having an up vote and down vote system (where enough down votes would hide a post). What do you guys think about that?

I think, as @Gidorick said above, an upvote/downvote system that makes upvoted posts somehow more visible without just crushing new points with no votes at all, would be good. Or perhaps just make more downvoted posts less visible. I think if many downvotes hide a post (but hide it like under a spoiler type of notice where you can still read it if you so choose) would be great.

That would be the general idea for both options.

Slurg

I don't know that it would be the best to use down votes to hide a post. I could easily see that feature being misused by the popular kids to bury ideas that aren't the most popular but are still worthy of discussion. If a post is really terrible it should probably either be moderated or allowed to die on its own. But a feature that allows users to simply express "hey, this poster doesn't represent me, don't get any ideas that all of your users want this feature ZOS" would be nice.

Plus some people have a hard time disagreeing in a nice way using their words, and a disagree button or downvote option would give them a way to participate without saying something inappropriate and being moderated off the forum.

cyqa

The only reason a person's post should be hidden/removed, is if they broke the ToS - and not because they happen to have a really unpopular opinion. I like Agree/Disagree, maybe a "trending posts" section that highlights threads with a lot of agrees, or something, but I don't think anyone's post should be hidden unless they've broken a rule.

dharbert

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Taz wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Good feedback, @Taz. It's something we're currently exploring, along with the possibility of having an up vote and down vote system (where enough down votes would hide a post). What do you guys think about that?

I think, as @Gidorick said above, an upvote/downvote system that makes upvoted posts somehow more visible without just crushing new points with no votes at all, would be good. Or perhaps just make more downvoted posts less visible. I think if many downvotes hide a post (but hide it like under a spoiler type of notice where you can still read it if you so choose) would be great.

That would be the general idea for both options.

Take a look at TheBlaze.com and see how they did their comment section. The way it works would be fine. It has a tab for newest posts, oldest posts, and popular posts. That site also has only upvote or downvote.

Elsonso

dharbert wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Good feedback, @Taz. It's something we're currently exploring, along with the possibility of having an up vote and down vote system (where enough down votes would hide a post). What do you guys think about that?

Down votes hiding a post? Absolutely not. That only invites trolls to downvote posts and keeps opinions from being heard. Players have the right to voice their opinion, popular or not. I can't believe you'd even consider that.

Yeah. Just clicking on "Agree" does not convey enough emphasis here. If the forum users can influence what people see on the forum, that will be their goal.

Lord_Kreegan

People are going to hide behind the anonymity of the Internet. If there is a "Disagree" button, just like they did with the "LOL" button, those people who are griefers will use that button for that purpose.

If people disagree enough with someone's post, they should have the moral courage to post, state as much, and state why. People should be able to see the name of the poster who is disagreeing wtih the poster. If people don't disagree with a post enough to post why, then they should just remain silent. Otherwise there will be guilds banding together to spam the "Disagree" button.

Same sort of thing happened on the LotRO forums...

Silence is golden among children and griefers, and griefers should neither be seen nor heard. Giving them a "Disagree" button or a "LOL" button again contributes to harassment more than anything else.

Bang 'em together if you disagree... or remain silent and respectful of others' opinions.

Samadhi

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Good feedback, @Taz. It's something we're currently exploring, along with the possibility of having an up vote and down vote system (where enough down votes would hide a post). What do you guys think about that?

Could we have the upvote/downvote system with a "popular posts" tab that collects the day's highest ranked posts together in one place for easy viewing?

Turelus

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Taz wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Good feedback, @Taz. It's something we're currently exploring, along with the possibility of having an up vote and down vote system (where enough down votes would hide a post). What do you guys think about that?

I think, as @Gidorick said above, an upvote/downvote system that makes upvoted posts somehow more visible without just crushing new points with no votes at all, would be good. Or perhaps just make more downvoted posts less visible. I think if many downvotes hide a post (but hide it like under a spoiler type of notice where you can still read it if you so choose) would be great.

That would be the general idea for both options.

I don't really like that for a forums as it's meant to be a discussions board with a back and forth where everything can weigh in on an opinion.
The problem with a downvote system which hides posts is it will become a system of "I don't like your opinion, so I downvote it" enough people feel that way and it becomes hidden that person is now being told they can't partake in a conversation because their opinion isn't what the majority want.

Also think of sections like the Alliance War area where factions can spam downvotes on each other causing entire threads to become hidden posts because someone said a rival faction did poorly the last month.

I honestly like where we are now with the forums, the LOL button was removed because people used it as a way of insulting others rather than using it during a good joke. The options to reward someone for a good post should remain, but nothing for punishing someone for having an opinion which differs from you own (which all downvote systems become).

If members don't want to see posts by specific people they already have the option to block them as well as the new tightened moderation for keeping discussions and debates friendly (those breaking rules can easily be reported).

Valen_Byte

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Good feedback, @Taz. It's something we're currently exploring, along with the possibility of having an up vote and down vote system (where enough down votes would hide a post). What do you guys think about that?

No up-vote/down vote. No hiding posts.

Taz

Hrm, I can see where hiding posts might prove to be a problem, and we do have tightened moderation. I still agree with an upvote/downvote system, where you have a tab to see popular posts (for that day/month/week). I still think a disagree/downvote option should be around, though. I've noticed with some recent posts that an excess of agrees for a post is considered a reason that the post is the majority vote, even though we have no disagree system in place to easily provide numbers to balance against that. An excess of agrees is also damaging to other opinions, to me, as much as hiding posts via disagreements would be.

Lord_Kreegan

Taz wrote: »

Hrm, I can see where hiding posts might prove to be a problem, and we do have tightened moderation. I still agree with an upvote/downvote system, where you have a tab to see popular posts (for that day/month/week). I still think a disagree/downvote option should be around, though. I've noticed with some recent posts that an excess of agrees for a post is considered a reason that the post is the majority vote, even though we have no disagree system in place to easily provide numbers to balance against that. An excess of agrees is also damaging to other opinions, to me, as much as hiding posts via disagreements would be.

I can see your persepctive, however I doubt that there will be griefers pressing the "Agree" button. There will definitely be griefers pushing a "Disagree" button.

Gidorick

Taz wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Good feedback, @Taz. It's something we're currently exploring, along with the possibility of having an up vote and down vote system (where enough down votes would hide a post). What do you guys think about that?

I think, as @Gidorick said above, an upvote/downvote system that makes upvoted posts somehow more visible without just crushing new points with no votes at all, would be good. Or perhaps just make more downvoted posts less visible. I think if many downvotes hide a post (but hide it like under a spoiler type of notice where you can still read it if you so choose) would be great.

Yea, like an upvote would act like a 'bump' in a way. Also, being able to organize the forum by newest/upvotes/downvotes would be nice.

Romo

Give the trolls their disagree button, but it is just that THEIR button with effects ONLY them.

It's there.

You click it and you can see your 1 vote to disagree, on your sceen ONLY.

That's all you see as to the the disagree vote, your one vote, no one else's.

No one else see's your vote, except the Moderators, only they get to see the total of the disagree votes.

Snit

Upvotes/ Downvotes turn it into a popularity contest. When it comes to suggestions and feedback, popularity and quality are not always related. We've seen good posts collect plenty of sarcastic "LOL's" in the past.

Don't overcomplicate things. Just add "Disagree," declare victory and move on to something else.

dharbert

It's simple. There are only two ways to go about it. Agree/Disagree, or nothing at all.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

How about we leave it just like it is? Facebook has no dislike button. Why bother with something people will simply abuse?

Samadhi

Lord_Kreegan wrote: »

People are going to hide behind the anonymity of the Internet. If there is a "Disagree" button, just like they did with the "LOL" button, those people who are griefers will use that button for that purpose.

If people disagree enough with someone's post, they should have the moral courage to post, state as much, and state why. People should be able to see the name of the poster who is disagreeing wtih the poster. If people don't disagree with a post enough to post why, then they should just remain silent. Otherwise there will be guilds banding together to spam the "Disagree" button.

Same sort of thing happened on the LotRO forums...

Silence is golden among children and griefers, and griefers should neither be seen nor heard. Giving them a "Disagree" button or a "LOL" button again contributes to harassment more than anything else.

Bang 'em together if you disagree... or remain silent and respectful of others' opinions.

Pressing a downvote/disagree button is neither disrespectful nor griefing.

Attorneyatlawl

Lord_Kreegan wrote: »

People are going to hide behind the anonymity of the Internet. If there is a "Disagree" button, just like they did with the "LOL" button, those people who are griefers will use that button for that purpose.

If people disagree enough with someone's post, they should have the moral courage to post, state as much, and state why. People should be able to see the name of the poster who is disagreeing wtih the poster. If people don't disagree with a post enough to post why, then they should just remain silent. Otherwise there will be guilds banding together to spam the "Disagree" button.

Same sort of thing happened on the LotRO forums...

Silence is golden among children and griefers, and griefers should neither be seen nor heard. Giving them a "Disagree" button or a "LOL" button again contributes to harassment more than anything else.

Bang 'em together if you disagree... or remain silent and respectful of others' opinions.

100% agreed. If you don't agree with something, say why and provide evidence or thoughts to support your position. I don't really like even a plain agree button but it does help keep one line posts down a bit in quantity . Silly forum trollers aside, I don't think a disagree button helps foster constructive discussion, and if it lowers a thread's visibility then it's just a joke, since it's rife for abuse or even just hivemind groupthink downvoting anything not the current fad of opinions.

I like where we are now, honestly. While I was thinking it was ridiculous to dump the disagree and lol buttons originally over time, it seems to have worked out quite nicely.

Jahosefat

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Good feedback, @Taz. It's something we're currently exploring, along with the possibility of having an up vote and down vote system (where enough down votes would hide a post). What do you guys think about that?

The reddit forum works similarly to this and I find it to be much less informative than the official forum. I think a disagree button allows people to show their opinion without reinforcing a mob mentality too much (the mob is not always right and I don't think marginalizing unpopular ideas or opinions helps debate/discussion/sharing of information).

But if the mob truly wishes an up-vote/down-vote system and the ability to hide posts maybe this could just be implemented in the general forums. My concern is the ability to hide posts could be abused by groups/guilds to silence or hide things they don't like (just to spite people).