1.6 Congratulations, Facepalms and Head Scratchers

Lionxoft

*Put long sections in spoilers for your sanity. I'm pretty sweet, huh? *

As 1.6 launch day approaches tomorrow I'm left with questions coming from all different angles within in regards to the Champion System and overall development/future of ESO (In particular PvP content or updates). They range from "Why does it work this way?" all the way up to "Wtf! Were they thinking at all when this came out of concept?". I think it goes without saying that this is the most significant systems update that ESO has received since it has been launched and I'd go out on a limb saying it's the most significant period even if it doesn't introduce actual content.


PvP Content:
Oh, nothing? For months already? Next topic.

PvE Content:
Oh, nothing? For months already? Next topic.

All joking or not joking aside here are some of my honest thoughts and/or suggestions on particular systems. Minus the Crown Store because that subject makes me "LOLOL".


Crown Store:

Now it should be noted that this isn't necessarily a system that will be implemented on the release of 1.6 but I do think that it should be included as it will most likely be implemented in an incremental patch of update six. I found that the items in the store weren't too significantly alarming however I do believe that we haven't seen the breadth of the scum that could creep it's way into it's inventory. With that said there are plenty of items in the store that will please the community in one way or another. Whether it's smacking the ass of a reptilian slave mount (Guar) or marrying your best friend over and over for the next year or so it's my honest belief that the Crown Store has something for you. It might not necessarily have anything for me in it's current state (PVP updates or logical AA sys) but I'm sure it's great for other folks. That is totally cool and I'm happy for them.

The Crown Store offers an awesome function that will allow you to preview certain vanity items or mounts in context with your character. I would have loved to have seen this level of detail offered in the base game but I suppose micro-transactions motivate better than others.

I was pleased to see that the Crown Store offered single stat potions to players in exchange for out of game currency. I think this will help players gain some gold when they vendor these useless potions however I think that gold earning meta will change once XP potions arrive. The market share will most definitely switch to the XP potions that offer power via the Champion System. While we're at it when are the special enchants found on master weapons and upgrade materials arriving in the crown store?

All joking aside I really do like the idea of the Crown Store. It means I don't have to pay my subscription anymore thinking content updates are being developed when they are not and I can allow the whales to support Zenimax. It's really a win situation for me personally.

Champion System:

The Champion System is a really interesting addition to the game and will bring customization options to builds however it should be noted that there will always be FotM CP allocations. The constellations were a pretty cool concept that drew from a previous TES game in particular, Skyrim. The UI is pretty beautiful for this particular system ranging from audio, graphic and UX design and is an example of the caliber of work the UI team or partner teams can churn out when they are motivated to do so. I really like the concept of unlockable perks for the tree once you have spent enough points in that particular tree.

The alternate advancement system (AA) was something that ESO desperately needed to help mitigate the stale progression however it's my opinion at this state of the system that it's concept wasn't thoroughly planned and this stale system is still stale in regards to CP progression. Currently, you gain points by accruing xp. I think that we can all agree that XP gains vary in different realms of the game and in this order. Here is a list of my observations where best-xp gain to worst xp gain. Grinding->Questing->End-game whether it be PvP or raiding/dungeoning.

This is an end-game AA system since you cannot progress in this system unless you are lv50. So this end-game AA system is not rewarding progression or accomplishments in end-game content specifically but it rather rewards grinding above all. The person or guild that spends time practicing the latest trial strategies or setting world first records receives less end-game AA system progression than the person that is grinding zombies at 400k xp per hour? That is bogusly out of sync with simple logic! I mean that receives a huge facepalm!

Since I'm generous I'll even offer some advice on a proper progression method that would really benefit players regardless of the realm they choose to play whether it be crafting, collection, dungeon slaying, PvP or world first/fastest trials... Hell, if someone really loves grinding mobs endlessly then this system could benefit them too however in a different method than is currently in place.

I know you're all probably thinking "What is this guy talking about?" or as the AU say "What are you on about?". Currently, the Champion System awards champion points based on XP accrued. This is so far out of line with proper thinking that it really makes me want to never log in again but I will offer this advice so I can say I tried.

Offer Champion Points based on achievements or feats. Yes, this would require that the Champion System be altered slightly and the creative team be - well, creative with different achievements but I think this is the method that would have benefitted the community the most via the Champion System. Like I said previously this method for point accrual would reward crafters, collectors, treasure hunters, murderers, thieves, dungeon rats, PvP junkies and trial speedsters. I'm sure the community could add more once they see what I'm "On about". I've seen it in practice. Works like a charm and rewards end-game progression by actually participating in end game in one way or another.

Reward Champion point progression that work in varieties of 10, 25 and 50 based off of achievements or feat difficulties. Once 100 achievement points are reached then offer ONE champ point. Sure, that figure would be altered to properly award points at a rate that would make progression noticeable. I think it's a decent proof of concept however.

Some examples of achievements or feats in a <Realm(Working titles. come on)> - <Feat/Achievement Description> (Any other info or descripts) The achievements would have names of course but I can't be bothered to spend time on that for just a concept that will probably be overlooked.

• Crafter - Harvest 10,000 nodes (Progressively higher with each rank of the achievement. Use your creativity and logical reasoning.)
• PvP - Nightblade Slayer - Kill x Nightblades.
• Collector - Discover and retrieve the "Dwemer artifacts" collection.
• Treasure Hunter - Open 1,000 treasure chests. (Same progressive idea as the "Crafter" above.)
• Murderers - Commit 100 murders or crimes. Be creative ZOS. (Progressive)
• Thieves - Steal 100 items or crimes. Be creative ZOS. (Progressive)
• Dungeon Rats - Defeat the loading screen boss with all of your hair still in place. "LOLOL" really, dungeon/trials achievements are the easiest to think up.
• Trials - Same as dungeon rats above but could also include speed runs. Hell, dungeon runs could have speed runs in addition to others.
• Mindless Slayer - Kill 100,00 Kwama in Darkshade Caverns. So incredibly important to note that if this were an achievement category that they be attainable while doing end-game content...
• Questers - Complete quest chain a or quest B while adhering to this condition etc. Ez Pz. *Slaps hands done*

I think I have made it clear that Champion Progression based on XP accrual is a terrible idea and has no place in this game where grinding mobs instead of end game content grants significant xp. I don't think that reducing the mob xp is the solution because a lot of players don't want to quest in order to get to end-game content and enjoy that progression. With that said I feel very strongly that your method of progression in this system is faulty, shoddy, uncreative and leaves more to be desired. That is my unbridled feedback in that regard and I even suppllied a solution that could benefit players of all types however it would require your creative team to be creative. Even f2p games (your console competition) can offer creativity similar to this so if budgeting is an issue then get your things in line please.

I think it will be further down the line but the gap the Champion System creates between newer players and vets will become an issue. Sure, vet players deserve to be stronger than newer players however the vet shouldn't be considered raid bosses when compared. The champ point bonuses took too much power away from the vanilla which leaves a very large gap. This is kind of an easier thing to handle since you have time to figure something out but PLEASE do not ask Brian Wheeler to balance it for you. I doubt that he would be included in that discussion but after seeing the low pop bonuses in PvP I don't even want him near the conversation. (Mildly joking but not really. Well, not sure on that. Come back to me later on that one.)

In conclusion, awesome system but needs a lot of work still as it was built on a bad foundation.

Skill/Passive Redesign:

The new skills or updated skills added to the game more than they hurt it and that's my opinion. But there are an incredible amount of bugs that these changes created. A lot of skills and mechanics are still broken and the gameplay will suffer because of them. I think that just a gander at the boards here in the PTS section will help you see them. I'm not sure why you aren't more vocal here on the forums in their regards letting us know if it's WAI or bugged and working on a fix. That shouldn't be hard to determine in some of these cases.

I really like the new AvA skills especially Vigor and guard. As a tank, there is a lot of room to utilize guard very well in PvP. I'm pretty stoked to play around with this one in a live setting. One thing to mention is that the alliance rank requirement for some of these abilities is completely unreasonable. I understand that you want to reward progression through the alliance war however there are better means of doing it than these abilities. PvP Gear (BoP and only obtainable in PvP ranks) could be a possible solution to that. Are tanks really supposed to be nearly worthless to their group until they reach Support rank 10? Sure, it doesn't take an incredibly long time to reach rank 10 on one character however reaching it on each of your characters - well, a problem arises. I'm not entirely sure my stance on this but I've read some threads and applied my own brief thoughts regarding it.

There are still a metric ton of useless or broken skills in the game. I had really hoped you could find benefits for these. Why isn't Agony being addressed? Dark cloak? Ash Cloud? You royally broke that one. That's just to name a few and I'm sure some people can chime in on those. Another beef I have is armor actives. Why does medium armor benefit from their passive stamina cost reduction when casting a heavy armor active? That makes no sense.... Like, none. AT ALL. IN ANY DIMENSION, SHAPE or FORM. <--Read that again... Times 20.

Provisioning update:
Haven't got the chance to play with this much as I'm not much of a provisioner for anyone but myself however I like the buff to drinks. Thanks for that great change.


Justice System:
Really cool idea but nothing revolutionary since it's been done before. I think it hurts my opinion of it since it rewards terrible champion system progress and is missing a key aspect in that it doesn't involve player to player interaction. You added a new system to an MMO that has no social interaction? Really? I might as well just play another TES game because they do it better. See Champion System section for the progression woahs and bring a drink... Or three. Maybe thirty? Don't drown in the sorrows of the Champion System progression though.

New PvP/PvE Content:
None? Damn. What about the last few months? Ok! You don't have to smack me.


Just because:
"Family Guy Karaoke"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6s3jxO3eMk


"AA()s" aka Alternate Advancement System is really censored? Like ZOS... You know you're an MMO right?

Darklord_Tiberius

If you do not like the PvP rank requirement on skills, to bad. Go PvP more and stop whining about it. Those of us that PvP more than people like you deserve to have something extra. You talk about wanting progression and yet complain because you cant get a skill that requires progression... Seems Legit.

Exstazik

Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »

If you do not like the PvP rank requirement on skills, to bad. Go PvP more and stop whining about it. Those of us that PvP more than people like you deserve to have something extra. You talk about wanting progression and yet complain because you cant get a skill that requires progression... Seems Legit.

Oh man...how i wish achievements skill line with Op skills....also want to wrote such things

Lionxoft

Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »

If you do not like the PvP rank requirement on skills, to bad. Go PvP more and stop whining about it. Those of us that PvP more than people like you deserve to have something extra. You talk about wanting progression and yet complain because you cant get a skill that requires progression... Seems Legit.

I think you cut out instead of reading when you decided that you wanted to fire away. I have 3 characters at Assault/Support 10 however I do have other characters as well with the rest all near that point. It takes a while sure however I think those skills should have different placement in their trees however some others like combat frenzy are appropriately placed. It might surprise you that I spend most of my time in PvP however not always on the same character. I think there are better ways of adding progression to PvP. Steep progression has it's merits but in my opinion for this particular circumstance it's not appropriate. There are better methods and ones that actually show off to the community your PvP rank like nice PvP sets that could be similar to the undaunted sets. Something to make us stand apart.

I find it interesting that you don't think I pvp a lot. I do PvP quite a bit. Granted not all on the same character and a good majority of my time spent in-game is pvp'ing the rest is making potions to pvp.

This time try reading before firing.

sebban

I agree with most of what you said and am especially worried about the rate of gaining more CPs. I am a PvE player and have completed more or less all quests and dungeon related achievements. Doing quests for XP is not a option (unless I, as a PvE player, want to spend alot of time in Cyrodil to do quests (I don't)). It seems doing Trials and Dungeons do not award nearly as much XP towards CPs as they should. Grinding mobs for XP is as far from ideal as it could be, and it worries me that this is the most efficient ways of gaining more CPs. Grinding mobs is, imo, the worst part of any MMO. I really hope this will be fixed before 1.6 goes live, but I have my doubts.

Cody

Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »

If you do not like the PvP rank requirement on skills, to bad. Go PvP more and stop whining about it. Those of us that PvP more than people like you deserve to have something extra. You talk about wanting progression and yet complain because you cant get a skill that requires progression... Seems Legit.

iv PvPed on my Vr14 for about 4-5 months now and still will not have vigor for the next 3 months.

Its not just PvErs and causal PvPers complaining about it:/ Putting one of the only 2 stamina based heals in the game at the end of a super long grind only 1/4 of the PvP community(notice I said PVP community, not overall community) will reach is close to cruel in my opinion.

Dazin93

Cody wrote: »

Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »

If you do not like the PvP rank requirement on skills, to bad. Go PvP more and stop whining about it. Those of us that PvP more than people like you deserve to have something extra. You talk about wanting progression and yet complain because you cant get a skill that requires progression... Seems Legit.

iv PvPed on my Vr14 for about 4-5 months now and still will not have vigor for the next 3 months.

Its not just PvErs and causal PvPers complaining about it:/ Putting one of the only 2 stamina based heals in the game at the end of a super long grind only 1/4 of the PvP community(notice I said PVP community, not overall community) will reach is close to cruel in my opinion.

I agree.

If alliance ranks were account wide I would be fine with it, but the fact that it is character bound is ridiculous considering the constant changes in this game. I was almost to 10 assault/support on my stamina sorc and now that my character is destroyed I'm supposed to spend 6 months or more on another character to be competitive? I don't find that appealing at all.

Also, the ability to level alliance ranks has been in a steady decline that corresponds with the PvP population decrease and the changing of game mechanics such as oils and remove of forward camps that used to promote more AP gain. Many vets benefited before those changes happened and newer players will not be as fortunate.

Add to the fact that PvE will be necessary for reasonable CP gain, this leaves a newer player in a compromising situation in which they will never be competitive with a vet from a build perspective as they simply cannot be in two places at once.

ashlee17

I agree with the OP.
The rank they placed vigor at is incredibly vexing. It will be almost impossible to get on more than 1 character. I guess they just need to keep us busy while we wait for new content....
I would love to see alliance ranks that are account bound.

F7sus4

Lionxoft wrote: »

I have 3 characters at Assault/Support 10 however I do have other characters as well with the rest all near that point.

Well, then you either don't live on your own or you don't have a life. Sorry to say that.

Lionxoft

F7sus4 wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

I have 3 characters at Assault/Support 10 however I do have other characters as well with the rest all near that point.

Well, then you either don't live on your own or you don't have a life. Sorry to say that.

@F7sus4

I'm not even sure where to start here. Should I point out the vitriol and the harm it can do or the presumptuous attitude towards me?

I won't respond to either beyond this but you're absolutely wrong on all accounts. Not everyone is locked away into the same situation as you are and they might have a few more freedoms open to them. I'm very lucky that if I choose to play a video game for an extended period of time I can or if I want to take a walk to the beach and go for a hike then I most certainly can.

Looking at things from a perspective much larger than the scope of video gaming when health is good then life is good. Always remember that. I'm not sorry to say that.