PVP- Am i playing The Elder Vampires Online?

RinaldoGandolphi

Ok, This post may be a bit long, but i have been holding back on this for awhile. However, I simply can't take it anymore, and whats said in this post must be said, because a spade is a spade, and i call it how it is. All i care about is end results, I really don't give a hoot about anything else. Please keep this in mind as you read this so you will understand where I am coming from, this is looking longterm. As their are glaring things hurting this game badly, and no one wants to talk about it, and it needs to be said, brought out into the open, and discussed. I expect this discussion to get especially heated, so do try your best not to resort to insults and such.



1. Vampires and Lore The Vampires in ESO are completely and totally lorebreaking. To the point is absolutely ridiculous. I have said many times, im ok with bending lore to make a better game, but this isn't a better game, its a worse game.

Vampirism is a DISEASE it is NOT some gift to make you "god like". This is the 1st thing they got totally wrong. Its been written in lore since the beginning pretty much that vampire is a disease.

Secondly, there is only ONE CLAN of Vampires that can go out into the sun without dying or being weakened and these are the Vampires of a specific Clan in Cyrodiil known as "The Order". The ONLY reason they can do this is because they made a Pact with Clavicus Vile (Who's sphere is the granting of power and wishes)This allows "The Order" to be the masters of disguise and as long as they feed, they are indistinguishable from regular people, and they can walk around in the daytime sun without dying or being weakened by it as long as they feed regularly. This is the reason why in Skyrim you see Vampires mulling around Clavicus Vile's Shirine, because they were obviously trying to make a similiar deal, but Vile wasn't interested in what they could offer in return. Even Clavicus Vile's main Daedric Artifact, The Masque of Clavicus Vile, can make ugly people appear handsome, can make hated people liked, etc.

This is Vile's Sphere of Influence. This is why The Order made the deal they made as can be verified through various texts.Their is a clan of Bosmeri Vamps that are indistinguisable from normal Bosmer unless seen by candlelight, but they cna't walk around in the sun during the day like The Order can.

To patron Clavicus Vile, beacon o'er our affairs, we owe our successes and social stature. Our bond with Vile makes us unique among our kind, for his guidance steels our savage craving with reason and savvy. For him we live amidst mankind, and twist them to our will from offices of power. - uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Manifesto_Cyrodiil_Vampyrum

Lamae's Bloodline has no such ability to do this. Arkay specifically made Molag Bal's Vampires weak to the sun as his counter-move to Molag Bal. Neither Bal nor Lamae can override this restriction, as This is not Molag's Sphere of Influence,. which is why the The Order went to Clavicus Vile, and Lamae is nothing more then a mortal turned Vampire and she has no power in comparison to Arkay who is not only a Divine, but the God of The Dead. Just because she is the first vampire don't make her the most powerful, Harkon, Serena, and Valerica were actually granted more power then Lamae as they can become Vampire Lords that are much more powerful then standard vampires (Molag Bal made improvements to his original creation). Furthermore, the only vampires that can summon swarms of bats to surround them are the Vampire Lord's of the Volikhar Clan. They were specifically given these abilities that are unique to them.

Lastly, it is nonsense that Stage 4 Vampires in this game can walk around towns and no body cares. Only the Order and the Bosmeri(at night only) can and don't look like Vampire undead monstrosities to the naked eye. A stage 4 vampire is a darn monsters as obviously as a zombie flesh bag walking around town, yet no one cares. Stage 4 Vampires should be attacked on sight by guards and people in towns, and vendors should refuse to barter with them unless they feed. all Alliance War NPC's and Soldiers should attack a stage 4 vamp on sight regardless, such an undead monstrosity is a clear threat, other then The Order, its very easy to tell who is a vamp and who isn't, especially if they haven't fed and look like monsters. More on that later. The point is Vamps are so lore broken in this game and it actually leads to the game being even worse broken because of it.

2. Vampires have too many strengths and too few drawbacks

Because ZOS decided to trash the lore in this game concerning Vampires, and giving them a Bat Swarm power that only the Vampire Lords of The Volikar Clan were ever granted, and giving them pretty much the same Sun immunity Clavicus Vile only ever granted to "The Order", Vampire's pretty much have nothing but positives in this game. Right now their is no reason not to be a stinking vampire in this game for PVP.

The Health regeneration and fire weakness of Vampires is a joke in comparison to the godly damage mitigation from Undeath, Whichever Bat Swarm Ultimate you like, Insanely cheap Vamp Ultimate (which in all the ZOS Vamp god-like nature can't be negated), increased Stealth movement speed, entering stealth more quickly at night, increased stamina and magig regeneration, well...why not be a vampire in this game? The same goes for the 1.6 its the same nonsense, sure they tweaked it, but its still the same OP nonsense we see right now where most of the pvp pop is vamps and will be in 1.6.

ZOS made vampires so powerful with so many advantages, but the Fighters Guild skill line they put in as a so called counter is a joke. Fighters Guild abilities are not powerful enough to be a viable counter to the god like morebreaking Vamps of ZOS...Evil hunter gives a 20% chance to do an extra 400-500 damage, while Bat Swarm and the like just makes them a God for a short period of time while they put up immovable or go invisible. Vampires are way more powerful then the abilites they made in-game to counter them, and the Fighters Guild abilities in 1.6 are a joke still in comparison to countering the God like Vampire.

Right now, the Vampire has way too many advantage compared to disadvantages. The disadvantages of Vampires are so miniscule in PVP, in compairson to the benefits its gets, that well....why not be a vampire? I mean afterall, ZOS lore breakinf Vampires are demi-gods because they contracted a diesease...Even the Vohlikar Clan as powerful as they were had clear weaknesses.

How ZOS can fix this

By going back to lore based vampires. Their deviation from lore is why vampires are broken, OP, and why 8-10 players in PVP are damn Vampires.

Vampires should be set up as follows:

Stage 1 - 50% fire Weakness, Helath, Magic, and Stamina Regen cut by 25% during the daylight hours.(unless inside a cave or delve)
Stage 2- Fire Weakness 55%, Health, Magic, and Stamina Regen cut by 50% during daylight hours(unless inside a cave or delve), vamp abilities and Ultimate 5% cheaper.
Stage 3 - Fire Weakness 60%, Health, Magic, and Stamina Regen cut by 75% during daylight hours(Unless in a cave or delve), Vamp Abilities and Ultimate 10% cheaper.
Stage 4 - Fire Weakness 65%, Health, Magic, and Stamina regen cut by 100% during daylight hours(unless in a cave or delve), Vamp Abilities and Ultimate 15% cheaper, Gain Major Hated, and will be attacked on sight by guards, towns people, and any NPC soldier in Cyrodiil(alliance friendly or not), and merchants will not barter with you (can maybe make a vampire specific market somewhere)

The longer the vamp goes without feeding the more powerful and cheaper his abilities become, but his weaknesses also become greater.

Now we have vampires that are actually balanced, and fair...yes they are very very powerful, especially at nighttime, but they have clear weaknesses too, are much weaker in the daytime depending on their stage, and it actually makes feeding somewhat relevant. Now becoming a vampire is more of a choice of pros and cons instead of the no brainier it is right now.

Of course you would have to increase the time duration of the stages, more like say 5-6 hours per vampire stage, so that way folks don't have to spend the entire game feeding all the time. We have to be fair here. The Fighters Guild abilities and passives are not powerful enough in comparison to their Vampire overlords, yet buffing the Fighters Guild skills too much could cause major balance problems. In fact, with the changes above i would decrease the damage Fighter's Guild abilities do to vamps "slightly".

As it stands now, PVP is a bunch of vamps grouping together or getting together spamming Bat Swarm and the AOE of their choice, all sides and factions do it, its what the game has devolved into. You look at all the top APearners on most factions and nearly every damn one of them is a Vampire. We have had more Vampire Emps then regular people becoming Emp. Are we to believe the whole stinking Intergeruum period was Cyrodiil being ruled a by a new vampire overlord every few days...its nonsense, from a lore perspective in every way....The Empire had a hard enough time sticking together when the Akaviri Potentates were ruling, it was constant strife and such even then, do you really think they would put up with a new Vampiric Monstrosity sitting on the throne every few days? very doubtful.

Vampires were always more of a roleplaying decision, and giving advantages and powers with clear disadvantages, that really required serious planning and such to get around. However, outside of being 1 shotted in City of Ash by fire, Vampires are the darn god overlords of Cyrodiil, or PVP, and your leader boards. Nerarly every AP farmer and top earner in this game are mostly Vampires. This is a touch much.

ZOS, if you truly care about TES, about its lore, and about this game and its long term prospects, you should strongly consider going back to lore based Vampires to some degree, and the Justice system should have guards attack stage 4 vamps on sight. The Order are unique because of Clavicus Vile, their is no other way period that vamps could walk around in the sun with nearly no penalty, only Clavicus Vile made that possible for The Order, but The Order is no more descended from Lamae's cult then any other Vampire, their is no evidence they became part of her coven, as a disease, Vampirism spreads as it spreads, the Order most likely just formed out of like minded Vamps who had been infected, and they figured out a way over the centuries to offer Vile something he was interested in, in return for the wish they wanted. Itrs obvious The OIrder gave up a good potion of their Vampiric Powers to Vile in return for their abilties. This makes it clear That Lamae never made such a pact as she would be required to make a great sacrifice, giving up most of her powers with the exception of immortality in order to receive anything in return...Clavicus Vile never grants a wish for nothing, their is always a catch, and usually it ends up as a bad deal in the end...see Sebastion Lort and The Rueful Axe to get an idea of how Vile gets his kicks. The Order are much easier to kill then other Vampires because they gave up most of their powers in return for concealment, being able to walk in the sun, and blend in as regular folk as long as they fed...Lamae never made no such deal, or else they would be much weaker then the god like versions that are in ESO.

ZOS...as it stands now...the game should be called The Elder Vampires Online when it comes to PVP....is this really the game you wanted? I bring this up because this must be said...if you don't do something about this, and soon, their will be no one left to buy anything from your crown store...once the console players see this nonsense, the majority of them won't even bother to play the game after the 1st 3 months, and the 10% who do stick around will just be killing each other. The same will go for PC.

Vampires should be very powerful at nightime, but during the day they should be weak...this isn't Twilight for petes sake where Vampires sparkle....PVP in this game is dying because of this nonsense...i watched from stealth for about 20 mins watching EP/AD/DC do the normal Vampire Bat AOE spam nonsense....this type of game play is abvout as fun as watching paint dry...i feel sorry for anyone in those groups that thinks that type of stuff would even be fun.....as the skill level is non-existence, run around, follow crown, spam AOE, drop bats....boring....its boring enough watching it or fighting against it, it would be even worse being a part of it. This type of game play will not keep people interested longterm.

I am on the brink of leaving this game, I like this game too, it has a lot of potential, but its getting boring because of this...1.6 will still be dominated by Vampires, there is no reason not to be a darn Vampire....will their ever ben and end to this?

I had Vampirism and cured it after a few days....its as close to god mode as you can get...its impossible to die during Devouring Swarm pretty much as long as you pop Unstopable prior....outside of the rare Silver Bolt proc...its X amount of seconds of darn invincibility that can't be negated, why wouldn't anyone use this. For the love of Talos, please put vampires back on their Lore basis, Their is no way Lamae Vamps can be how they are in this gfame, only Calvicus Vile could give them that ability and he has a steep price i doubt Lamae would be willing to wager.

themizario

^ Someone was killed by bats

Tripwyr

Getting really tired of these threads. The problem is not Vampire, the problem is Negate. The problem will go away next patch, stop whining.

Gooey

Nobody cares, quit crying about a build you can't beat.

Knootewoot

Meh i think vampires are the easy kills. Got my camo hunter and silver shards. I always look for somoene who pops a batswarm during PvP. I go in stealth, pop camo hunter and wait for him to go back to normal form. Mostly 2 shots and dead. Unless it is a DK/vamp. Then i won't bother during a fight. Only when they don't expect it.

Roechacca

Well I didn't know all this so now it's ruining my immersion ! Nerf all suck heads . lol


But seriously no one cares except a few . There's nothing elder scrolls about this game anymore .

Panda244

Solution: Slot Silver Shards, Wait For 1.6, Profit. They increased the proc chance of Silver Shards from 5 to 30%, meaning you can one shot a Vampire 30% of the time.

Your suggestion to "balance" vampires, doesn't balance them at all. You essentially break them, no Magicka or Stamina regen at Stage 4 during the day? Which lasts 4 hours irl, are you serious man? 65% increase to fire damage? That breaks them for PvE, they can't do Veteran CoA or Elden Hollow with that much extra damage, not to mention their regen is broke, being attacked by town NPCs and Cyrodiil guards I'm fine with, implement it into the justice system.

What they need to do is remove the "Abilities get cheaper as I starve" concept and give Batswarm a 200 Ultimate cost. There, I fixed Vampires... That's the only thing making them OP, everything else about them can be negated or dodged.

Roechacca

In fact it's not even Tamriel , it's Tamriel unlimited plus , so they make their own lore .

Tripwyr

Your comments regarding Undeath, the lack of downside to Vampire, etc. Are completely wrong. Evil Hunter increases average damage output by 20+%, and the Slayer and Banish The Wicked passives which every player in the game has make Vampire's damage mitigation substantially weaker.

Vampires receive 33% damage mitigation while under 30% health (scaling linearly from 50%). This means they receive 109% damage while above 50%, 91.015% (on average) between 30% and 50%, and 73.03% under 30%. This means vampires take an average of 94.603% of the damage than a non-vampire player takes. They also produce an additional 9 ultimate for the attacker when killed.

Lets factor Evil Hunter shall we? I'm going to use Dark Flare as my standard skill because it only hits once and it deals a fairly average amount of single target damage. We're not going to factor spell resistance or armor because they apply equally to both Vampires and non-vampires. We're not going to factor spell critical for the same reason.

My Dark Flare deals 643 magic damage, and my Expert Hunter deals 388 magic damage. Assuming a 20% proc rate, that means Expert Hunter adds an average of 77.6 extra damage to my Dark Flare. However, Vampires mitigate an average of 5.397% damage, which means that my Dark Flare with Expert Hunter deals (643+77.6)*0.94603 = 681.71 damage! Using Expert Hunter causes Vampires to take more damage on average than non-Vampires! That is 6% extra damage.

Additionally, lets not ignore AoE spells. Expert Hunter is even more useful for AoE spells since its damage is fixed and AoE spells deal less damage per target. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and use my Sorcerer for this calculation, since her Impulse hits harder than my Templar's.

My Impulse deals 255 damage, and my Expert Hunter deals 374 damage (different character remember). With a 20% proc rate, that means Expert Hunter adds an average of 74.8 damage. (255+74.8)*0.94603 = 312 damage. That is 22.35% extra damage compared to a non-vampire.

Lets not forget that Vampires take 50% increased damage from fire, and one of the 4 classes in this game deals exclusively fire damage, the primary defensive siege deals fire damage, and most staff users use a fire staff.

Please, instead of complaining about Vampires and how overpowered they are(n't), consider simply running one or more of the numerous counters. People aren't running Vampire because Vampire is overpowered. People are running Vampire because Sorcerers are overpowered, and the only effective ultimate in the current Sorcerer meta is Batswarm.

EDIT: Lets finally remember that competent Sorcerers and most competent Templars (except the very select few who actually pull off the tanky DPS build) do not run Vampire.

EDIT2: I figured I should calculate Impulse + Expert Hunter damage at >30% health. (255+74.8)*0.67*1.09 = 240.85294 damage. That is 94.45% damage compared to a non-vampire. This means a vampire under 30% health (maximum Undeath benefit) takes only 5.55% less damage than a non-vampire with Expert Hunter, but also receives 50% more damage from Fire and grants an additional 9 ultimate when killed. Lets not forget that procing Evil Hunter also restores stamina to the attacker.

Panda244

roechacca wrote: »

In fact it's not even Tamriel , it's Tamriel unlimited plus , so they make their own lore .

Not entirely true lol... They can make new lore with the head nod from Bethesda, anything else is breaking canon.

Tripwyr

Panda244 wrote: »

Solution: Slot Silver Shards, Wait For 1.6, Profit. They increased the proc chance of Silver Shards from 5 to 30%, meaning you can one shot a Vampire 30% of the time.

Your suggestion to "balance" vampires, doesn't balance them at all. You essentially break them, no Magicka or Stamina regen at Stage 4 during the day? Which lasts 4 hours irl, are you serious man? 65% increase to fire damage? That breaks them for PvE, they can't do Veteran CoA or Elden Hollow with that much extra damage, not to mention their regen is broke, being attacked by town NPCs and Cyrodiil guards I'm fine with, implement it into the justice system.

What they need to do is remove the "Abilities get cheaper as I starve" concept and give Batswarm a 200 Ultimate cost. There, I fixed Vampires... That's the only thing making them OP, everything else about them can be negated or dodged.

They reduced the damage from 40% of an average player's health to 10% of an average player's health.

sirston

answer to your rant...Dragon break

elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Break

Panda244

Tripwyr wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Solution: Slot Silver Shards, Wait For 1.6, Profit. They increased the proc chance of Silver Shards from 5 to 30%, meaning you can one shot a Vampire 30% of the time.

Your suggestion to "balance" vampires, doesn't balance them at all. You essentially break them, no Magicka or Stamina regen at Stage 4 during the day? Which lasts 4 hours irl, are you serious man? 65% increase to fire damage? That breaks them for PvE, they can't do Veteran CoA or Elden Hollow with that much extra damage, not to mention their regen is broke, being attacked by town NPCs and Cyrodiil guards I'm fine with, implement it into the justice system.

What they need to do is remove the "Abilities get cheaper as I starve" concept and give Batswarm a 200 Ultimate cost. There, I fixed Vampires... That's the only thing making them OP, everything else about them can be negated or dodged.

They reduced the damage from 40% of an average player's health to 10% of an average player's health.

Oh really?
Well then, dawnbreaker?

Panda244

sirston wrote: »

answer to your rant...Dragon break

elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Break

ZOS never confirmed TESO was part of a Dragon Break did they?

Sharee

Panda244 wrote: »

Solution: Slot Silver Shards, Wait For 1.6, Profit. They increased the proc chance of Silver Shards from 5 to 30%, meaning you can one shot a Vampire 30% of the time.

Nope. They increased the proc chance yes, but they also decreased the proc damage to be lower than the regular hit silver shards do. No one is getting one shot by that anytime soon.

sirston

Panda244 wrote: »

sirston wrote: »

answer to your rant...Dragon break

elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Break

ZOS never confirmed TESO was part of a Dragon Break did they?

No but they never denied it

Panda244

sirston wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

sirston wrote: »

answer to your rant...Dragon break

elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Break

ZOS never confirmed TESO was part of a Dragon Break did they?

No but they never denied it

That means nothing then... But! The Dragon Break for Skyrim, and the Tiber Wars Dragon Break, means the games that take place after TESO could have different vampire strains and what not, where as TESO doesn't... So lore problem = fixed.

Roechacca

Panda244 wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

In fact it's not even Tamriel , it's Tamriel unlimited plus , so they make their own lore .

Not entirely true lol... They can make new lore with the head nod from Bethesda, anything else is breaking canon.

Oh come on lol The lore is busted 6 ways to Sunday an they know it . Soon everyone will be riding Senche Tigers :P

Panda244

roechacca wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

In fact it's not even Tamriel , it's Tamriel unlimited plus , so they make their own lore .

Not entirely true lol... They can make new lore with the head nod from Bethesda, anything else is breaking canon.

Oh come on lol The lore is busted 6 ways to Sunday an they know it . Soon everyone will be riding Senche Tigers :P

The lore has been busted six ways from Sunday yes, because ZOS went with all the lore that never necessarily said it can't be done, and did it, like riding the Senche, never said other species didn't do it, so they allowed it. I'd rather not have them make up new lore though... It'd just... It'd...

Roechacca

Panda244 wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

In fact it's not even Tamriel , it's Tamriel unlimited plus , so they make their own lore .

Not entirely true lol... They can make new lore with the head nod from Bethesda, anything else is breaking canon.

Oh come on lol The lore is busted 6 ways to Sunday an they know it . Soon everyone will be riding Senche Tigers :P

The lore has been busted six ways from Sunday yes, because ZOS went with all the lore that never necessarily said it can't be done, and did it, like riding the Senche, never said other species didn't do it, so they allowed it. I'd rather not have them make up new lore though... It'd just... It'd...

Marmalade . Complete Smuckers Man .

Panda244

roechacca wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

In fact it's not even Tamriel , it's Tamriel unlimited plus , so they make their own lore .

Not entirely true lol... They can make new lore with the head nod from Bethesda, anything else is breaking canon.

Oh come on lol The lore is busted 6 ways to Sunday an they know it . Soon everyone will be riding Senche Tigers :P

The lore has been busted six ways from Sunday yes, because ZOS went with all the lore that never necessarily said it can't be done, and did it, like riding the Senche, never said other species didn't do it, so they allowed it. I'd rather not have them make up new lore though... It'd just... It'd...

Marmalade . Complete Smuckers Man .

Screw yer marmalade, I want muh blueberries

Roechacca

Vampires and Werewolves talking to NPC's to get quests in the middle of a City . Sure , no one ever said it never happened but we can assume its poop can't we ? Lore ... Wat lore ? We don't need no stinking lore !

Soulac

Batcat here.
Vamp is love. Vamp is life.

WraithAzraiel

woodsro wrote: »

I had Vampirism and cured it after a few days....its as close to god mode as you can get...its impossible to die during Devouring Swarm pretty much as long as you pop Unstopable prior....outside of the rare Silver Bolt proc...its X amount of seconds of darn invincibility that can't be negated, why wouldn't anyone use this. For the love of Talos, please put vampires back on their Lore basis, Their is no way Lamae Vamps can be how they are in this gfame, only Calvicus Vile could give them that ability and he has a steep price i doubt Lamae would be willing to wager.

Incorrect.

As a Nightblade, no matter WHEN I pop Devouring Swarm I more often than not, end up dying. 9 times out of 10.

Might not be how it works for damage shield, Immovable, Sword and Board/Destro DK's but I've never been able to hit Devouring Swarm and become instantly all powerful.

Your base class and the amount of Ultimate Cost reduction you have stacked, make all the difference to being a Vampire.

Why do you think all(most) the Vampires you see in Cyrodiil are DK's or Sorcs?

WraithAzraiel

Tripwyr wrote: »

Getting really tired of these threads. The problem is not Vampire, the problem is Negate. The problem will go away next patch, stop whining.

Nobody listens man. I've been telling people Vampire wasn't the problem since they started with the nerfs months ago. Since people started running in a perpetual cloud of bats as long as there were enemies around them.

Put a Hard Cap on Ultimate Cost Reduction. Increase the cost of Bat Swarm and it's morphs and watch people drop Vampire left and right.


There would be a line to get cured that would wrap around the block.

kewl

Yes, you are.

Tripwyr

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

Getting really tired of these threads. The problem is not Vampire, the problem is Negate. The problem will go away next patch, stop whining.

Nobody listens man. I've been telling people Vampire wasn't the problem since they started with the nerfs months ago. Since people started running in a perpetual cloud of bats as long as there were enemies around them.

Put a Hard Cap on Ultimate Cost Reduction. Increase the cost of Bat Swarm and it's morphs and watch people drop Vampire left and right.


There would be a line to get cured that would wrap around the block.

We don't even need this. Bat Swarm is a fairly weak ultimate compared to most class ultimates, I would wager that in 1.6 the only Vampires we see will be Sorcerers. With Negate no longer being the be-all end-all ultimate that it currently is, you'll see Solar Prison, Shifting Standard and Veil of Blades used much more regularly as they are much stronger ultimates.

The primary advantage of Bat Swarm is that it is not removed by Negate.

Roechacca

I wish everyone that's says Vampire Ultimate is not that great would just stop using it then instead of trying to convince people you like using a crappy ultimate . It's fun to read but oh so funny .

Sharee

roechacca wrote: »

I wish everyone that's says Vampire Ultimate is not that great would just stop using it then instead of trying to convince people you like using a crappy ultimate . It's fun to read but oh so funny .

It is also funny to read how easy it is to counter vampires and how they are not really that great, then you slot evil hunter near an enemy zerg and watch it light up like a christmas tree.

Tripwyr

roechacca wrote: »

I wish everyone that's says Vampire Ultimate is not that great would just stop using it then instead of trying to convince people you like using a crappy ultimate . It's fun to read but oh so funny .

I don't use it.

EDIT: Like I said above, competent Sorcs/Templar Healers don't use it. Only time a Sorcerer can use it is when the group already has more than 8+ other Sorcerers. Templar Healers who use it are incompetent, no if ands or buts.

ToRelax

woodsro wrote: »

How ZOS can fix this

By going back to lore based vampires. Their deviation from lore is why vampires are broken, OP, and why 8-10 players in PVP are damn Vampires.

Vampires should be set up as follows:

Stage 1 - 50% fire Weakness, Helath, Magic, and Stamina Regen cut by 25% during the daylight hours.(unless inside a cave or delve)
Stage 2- Fire Weakness 55%, Health, Magic, and Stamina Regen cut by 50% during daylight hours(unless inside a cave or delve), vamp abilities and Ultimate 5% cheaper.
Stage 3 - Fire Weakness 60%, Health, Magic, and Stamina Regen cut by 75% during daylight hours(Unless in a cave or delve), Vamp Abilities and Ultimate 10% cheaper.
Stage 4 - Fire Weakness 65%, Health, Magic, and Stamina regen cut by 100% during daylight hours(unless in a cave or delve), Vamp Abilities and Ultimate 15% cheaper, Gain Major Hated, and will be attacked on sight by guards, towns people, and any NPC soldier in Cyrodiil(alliance friendly or not), and merchants will not barter with you (can maybe make a vampire specific market somewhere)

The longer the vamp goes without feeding the more powerful and cheaper his abilities become, but his weaknesses also become greater.

Now we have vampires that are actually balanced, and fair...yes they are very very powerful, especially at nighttime, but they have clear weaknesses too, are much weaker in the daytime depending on their stage, and it actually makes feeding somewhat relevant. Now becoming a vampire is more of a choice of pros and cons instead of the no brainier it is right now.

Of course you would have to increase the time duration of the stages, more like say 5-6 hours per vampire stage, so that way folks don't have to spend the entire game feeding all the time. We have to be fair here. The Fighters Guild abilities and passives are not powerful enough in comparison to their Vampire overlords, yet buffing the Fighters Guild skills too much could cause major balance problems. In fact, with the changes above i would decrease the damage Fighter's Guild abilities do to vamps "slightly".

I'd like this.

Tripwyr wrote: »

Getting really tired of these threads. The problem is not Vampire, the problem is Negate. The problem will go away next patch, stop whining.

Tripwyr wrote: »

Please, instead of complaining about Vampires and how overpowered they are(n't), consider simply running one or more of the numerous counters. People aren't running Vampire because Vampire is overpowered. People are running Vampire because Sorcerers are overpowered, and the only effective ultimate in the current Sorcerer meta is Batswarm.

EDIT: Lets finally remember that competent Sorcerers and most competent Templars (except the very select few who actually pull off the tanky DPS build) do not run Vampire.

Tripwyr wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

Getting really tired of these threads. The problem is not Vampire, the problem is Negate. The problem will go away next patch, stop whining.

Nobody listens man. I've been telling people Vampire wasn't the problem since they started with the nerfs months ago. Since people started running in a perpetual cloud of bats as long as there were enemies around them.

Put a Hard Cap on Ultimate Cost Reduction. Increase the cost of Bat Swarm and it's morphs and watch people drop Vampire left and right.


There would be a line to get cured that would wrap around the block.

We don't even need this. Bat Swarm is a fairly weak ultimate compared to most class ultimates, I would wager that in 1.6 the only Vampires we see will be Sorcerers. With Negate no longer being the be-all end-all ultimate that it currently is, you'll see Solar Prison, Shifting Standard and Veil of Blades used much more regularly as they are much stronger ultimates.

The primary advantage of Bat Swarm is that it is not removed by Negate.

Tripwyr wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

I wish everyone that's says Vampire Ultimate is not that great would just stop using it then instead of trying to convince people you like using a crappy ultimate . It's fun to read but oh so funny .

I don't use it.

EDIT: Like I said above, competent Sorcs/Templar Healers don't use it. Only time a Sorcerer can use it is when the group already has more than 8+ other Sorcerers. Templar Healers who use it are incompetent, no if ands or buts.

All those comments only make sense for zergball gameplay. (Before you object, I mean stacked up groups of 12+ players)

I am sorry, but vampires are very popular outside of that box, too.

See http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/153089/an-in-depth-explanation-on-the-streanghts-of-vampirism-in-pvp

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

I had Vampirism and cured it after a few days....its as close to god mode as you can get...its impossible to die during Devouring Swarm pretty much as long as you pop Unstopable prior....outside of the rare Silver Bolt proc...its X amount of seconds of darn invincibility that can't be negated, why wouldn't anyone use this. For the love of Talos, please put vampires back on their Lore basis, Their is no way Lamae Vamps can be how they are in this gfame, only Calvicus Vile could give them that ability and he has a steep price i doubt Lamae would be willing to wager.

Incorrect.

As a Nightblade, no matter WHEN I pop Devouring Swarm I more often than not, end up dying. 9 times out of 10.

Might not be how it works for damage shield, Immovable, Sword and Board/Destro DK's but I've never been able to hit Devouring Swarm and become instantly all powerful.

Your base class and the amount of Ultimate Cost reduction you have stacked, make all the difference to being a Vampire.

Why do you think all(most) the Vampires you see in Cyrodiil are DK's or Sorcs?

As a NB, why Devouring Swarm?