Lack of Response

MornaBaine

Many players are very unhappy with the implementation of vampires in ESO. Whether it's the mechanics or the cosmetics, numerous threads (and not all of them by me! LOL) have been posted expressing player frustration with this issue. And while many of these threads end up heavily moderated with admonishments to posters regarding forum rules, not a single Dev ever speaks to the substance of the complaints that engendered the thread to begin with. At a minimum, this tells us that the Devs ARE reading these threads. Yet their refusal to address the issues of the threads themselves leads to the perception that ZOS does not care about these issues and does not intend, now or in the future, to ever do anything about them. This then just fuels player dissatisfaction and the perception that we are not valued.

Now vampires are certainly not the only issue this happens with but I do believe it is the most prevalent one and it is the one topic that absolutely never receives any Dev response whatsoever. PvP may still be in terrible shape but at least the Devs HAVE talked about it with us in the past and continue to encourage player input on the matter. But when it comes to vampires they won't even say, "We have seen your complaints and are considering the best way to make changes."

Believe me ZOS we already understand this is a low priority issue. We know console release, Champion System, switch to B2P and the Crown Store are the main focus of your current attention. All well and good. And yes we know there are some changes coming in 1.6 to vampires, namely the 10% reduction to fire damage and then some nerfs that will hurt vampires pretty badly but none of these changes speak to the issues that have been raised repeatedly in these forums regarding possible new vampire abilities, changes to the Stage Timers, and cosmetic issues regarding how vampires look nor the absence of guard response to Stage 4 vampires in the Justice System.

All most of us really want is an acknowledgement of the issues and some idea of whether or not you will actually consider making any changes or additions to vampires at some point in the future.

My questions are simply these at this point:

1. Are you aware that many players are dissatisfied with vampires as they currently stand?
2. Aside from the changes (one positive, the rest seen as nerfs) we will get in 1.6 will you consider making any further changes or additions to vampires based upon player feedback in these forums?
3. If yes, will these changes be to mechanics, cosmetics, or both?

At this point we're not even asking for specifics anymore, just an acknowledgement that we are being heard and our complaints and suggestions considered. Thank you.

nerevarine1138

You already know that they listen to feedback and take it into account. You already know that taking that feedback into account can take the form of cosmetic and mechanical changes. You already know that the development team is currently focused on a very large patch rollout.

So what, exactly, are you asking ZO to tell you that you don't already know?

MornaBaine

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

You already know that they listen to feedback and take it into account. You already know that taking that feedback into account can take the form of cosmetic and mechanical changes. You already know that the development team is currently focused on a very large patch rollout.

So what, exactly, are you asking ZO to tell you that you don't already know?

All of the things I asked in the OP, which is pretty self explanatory. The point is that the Devs will usually give some sort of commentary relating to issues that get brought up often. Yet that has not been the case regarding vampires.

nerevarine1138

MornaBaine wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

You already know that they listen to feedback and take it into account. You already know that taking that feedback into account can take the form of cosmetic and mechanical changes. You already know that the development team is currently focused on a very large patch rollout.

So what, exactly, are you asking ZO to tell you that you don't already know?

All of the things I asked in the OP, which is pretty self explanatory. The point is that the Devs will usually give some sort of commentary relating to issues that get brought up often. Yet that has not been the case regarding vampires.

There are plenty of issues that the developers don't devote commentary to, changes to vampires being one of them. Since there are only a handful of posters who keep bringing up the same issues, it seems safe to say that this isn't a wider community problem that requires a response from the developers.

Rosveen

I agree with Nerevarine. You keep asking these questions over and over and over again, but I honestly don't know what answer they could possibly give you that would satisfy you. We already know they hear the feedback (following it is another matter entirely), so what else do you want to know? The exact plan of changes to vampirism, with bullet points and deadlines? Even if they have one, they won't reveal it because people will take it as a promise and moan about lies when something inevitably changes. If they don't have a plan, then what can they say? "We hear you, we're looking into it"? You know very well how useless this comment would be. Were you happy with their "acknowledgement that we are being heard and our suggestions considered" regarding the barber shop? No, you weren't.

Titansteele

Rosveen wrote: »

I agree with Nerevarine. You keep asking these questions over and over and over again, but I honestly don't know what answer they could possibly give you that would satisfy you. We already know they hear the feedback (following it is another matter entirely), so what else do you want to know? The exact plan of changes to vampirism, with bullet points and deadlines? Even if they have one, they won't reveal it because people will take it as a promise and moan about lies when something inevitably changes. If they don't have a plan, then what can they say? "We hear you, we're looking into it"? You know very well how useless this comment would be. Were you happy with their "acknowledgement that we are being heard and our suggestions considered" regarding the barber shop? No, you weren't.

I both agree and disagree, there has been acknowledgment to the points raised in the OP so I agree on that regards, I am not sure why asking it again is of benefit. Granted you have to go to many different sources to tick off all the answers but they are out there. Apologies I have neither the time nor inclination to link to them all.

I do however disagree on the response point, a simple response on here to say "This has been raised for development but it is currently under consideration as to how/if we will address this."

In the main topic I find this one splits my guilds, some people think it is right just as they are and other do not. Where we have never gone as far as taking a poll on the subject I would make an educated guess that it would be around the around the 50/50 mark.

AshySamurai

Well, TBH I agree with @Rosveen and @nerevarine1138. What you want them to say? "Yes, we're looking into it" will satisfy you? Well, they looking inro it.

MornaBaine

I've stated what I and others want. Your mileage may vary and that's just fine. I may be the most vocal "vampire advocate" on the forums but I am certainly not alone. When other classes have been discussed there is usually a Dev response of some sort. That's all we really want here as well.

MornaBaine

AshySamurai wrote: »

Well, TBH I agree with @Rosveen and @nerevarine1138. What you want them to say? "Yes, we're looking into it" will satisfy you? Well, they looking inro it.

We don't know that because they've never said so.

nerevarine1138

MornaBaine wrote: »

I've stated what I and others want. Your mileage may vary and that's just fine. I may be the most vocal "vampire advocate" on the forums but I am certainly not alone. When other classes have been discussed there is usually a Dev response of some sort. That's all we really want here as well.

It's not just that you're the most vocal. You're one of about five to ten people on the forums who have this as their cause celebre. Which is fine. But the fact that those five to ten people keep posting about it doesn't actually make it more important to the community at large.

And what changes does the community want? Even based on the current vampire thread, most people can't even agree on what changes (if any) are needed.

MornaBaine

Titansteele wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

I both agree and disagree, there has been acknowledgment to the points raised in the OP so I agree on that regards, I am not sure why asking it again is of benefit. Granted you have to go to many different sources to tick off all the answers but they are out there. Apologies I have neither the time nor inclination to link to them all.

And yet I would challenge you to find them. They aren't, in fact, out there.

AshySamurai

MornaBaine wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

Well, TBH I agree with @Rosveen and @nerevarine1138. What you want them to say? "Yes, we're looking into it" will satisfy you? Well, they looking inro it.

We don't know that because they've never said so.

They said that they read all topics (yeah, I can't guarantee it).

IMO it would be nice to have Dev Tracker #2, so they can post there about what they aware of and what is the most important atm. And what will never happen. It would be nice to have such kind of official source of future plans. Not sure it will ever happen simply because it will requare a few additional guys to do it.

Also, "vampire advocate" - LOL!! +awesome for it. Really funny.

MornaBaine

AshySamurai wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

Well, TBH I agree with @Rosveen and @nerevarine1138. What you want them to say? "Yes, we're looking into it" will satisfy you? Well, they looking inro it.

We don't know that because they've never said so.

They said that they read all topics (yeah, I can't guarantee it).

IMO it would be nice to have Dev Tracker #2, so they can post there about what they aware of and what is the most important atm. And what will never happen. It would be nice to have such kind of official source of future plans. Not sure it will ever happen simply because it will requare a few additional guys to do it.

Also, "vampire advocate" - LOL!!

Hey SOMEBODY has to speak up for our poor, misunderstood and neglected Undead!

Titansteele

MornaBaine wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

I both agree and disagree, there has been acknowledgment to the points raised in the OP so I agree on that regards, I am not sure why asking it again is of benefit. Granted you have to go to many different sources to tick off all the answers but they are out there. Apologies I have neither the time nor inclination to link to them all.

And yet I would challenge you to find them. They aren't, in fact, out there.

Apologies but I am not picking up that challenge, one of my frustrations is you seem to have to go all over the place to fit all the pieces of the jigsaw that is the communications. I remember seeing answers (granted vague) that cover your points but I do not recall where as I do not feel as strongly as you do on the subject. It is your mission and passion I am not going to take it on for you, sorry.

My dog in this fight is you shouldn't have to spend hours trawl the net and watching video footage to get these answers when a 20 second reply here would appease your query.

Audigy

Now vampires are certainly not the only issue this happens with but I do believe it is the most prevalent one and it is the one topic that absolutely never receives any Dev response whatsoever. PvP may still be in terrible shape but at least the Devs HAVE talked about it with us in the past and continue to encourage player input on the matter. But when it comes to vampires they won't even say, "We have seen your complaints and are considering the best way to make changes."

Don't take this the wrong way Morna as I like how passionate you are with your topic, but Vampires are our least concern at ESO. This is an Elder Scrolls game mostly, a game which still doesn't has housing, no companions and a pretty poor crafting system. Besides that the pvp part is non existent and was sacrificed two times already for pve additions.

I understand that you want to be a Vampire and you find they belong to ESO, but the truth is you are very alone with that desire. Its a handful of people who see Vampires or Werewolfs as an important addition, the majority however would much more prefer to finally have a own house, a companion on their side or some decent and meaningful pvp.

We also have to consider that ESO right now is extremely limited in a lot of aspects such as crafting, roleplaying but also style. While we can dye our stuff, we cant really design it - its a pre made pattern, we don't have barber shops to adjust hair and makeup - we have none of that. DB / Thieves guild are nowhere near implementation, no new solo content since more than a year etc.

The reason you don't get any response from the Devs might be that they don't see it as an important feature, Vampires are just a niche at ES, they simply put don't matter enough


Personally,

I would like to see important changes to Vampires or WW too. An example that I mentioned before is the bloodlust & sunlight feature. Vampires who don't feed for a long time become extremely pale and ugly, their veins come out and they just look like a total mess. Besides that they should never ever walk in the sunlight, never!

But the truth is, how many want these realistic and immersive changes? Not many, so that this demand is just a personal topic, similar to yours.

In my opinion and this might be the one of others too, ZO must get ESO going into a more ES driven direction. We need our house, meaningful crafting, roleplpay aspects such as barbers and designers, AvA that we were promised in Beta and new solo story content.

FadedJeans

I love playing my vampire. I don't feel underpowered, but I do hope they do mix it up from time to time.

Life Detection would be freaking awesome, or even a vampiric flavored mage-light to use existing mechanics (ha-ha, circling bats!) but I'm having a good time, regardless.

RainfeatherUK

I dont necessarily think that Morna campaigning (for vampire rights and quality of life? lol) is a bad thing. Have to admire the persistence really! - Clearly a passionate Vampire. Advocate General for sure.

That said there is that element of the system having to cater to everyone and not just an individual. Perhaps the changes just need listing in a format that isnt so individual specific. A point of view that reperesents enough players en-masse is ultimately what they respond to. Especially if those viewpoints have enough support.

ZoS have all those months of complaint from PvP whipping at their tails on vamps. So its no wonder they are reluctant.

Thats not to say Morna shouldnt campaign. Since campaigns always have their opposition! It just perhaps needs better formatting and support/public voting to gain traction.

That and it would be a sad world indeed if we couldnt voice unhapiness or want to support things we care about most.

MornaBaine

Titansteele wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

I both agree and disagree, there has been acknowledgment to the points raised in the OP so I agree on that regards, I am not sure why asking it again is of benefit. Granted you have to go to many different sources to tick off all the answers but they are out there. Apologies I have neither the time nor inclination to link to them all.

And yet I would challenge you to find them. They aren't, in fact, out there.

Apologies but I am not picking up that challenge, one of my frustrations is you seem to have to go all over the place to fit all the pieces of the jigsaw that is the communications. I remember seeing answers (granted vague) that cover your points but I do not recall where as I do not feel as strongly as you do on the subject. It is your mission and passion I am not going to take it on for you, sorry.

My dog in this fight is you shouldn't have to spend hours trawl the net and watching video footage to get these answers when a 20 second reply here would appease your query.

And there (your last sentence) we are in complete agreement my friend. I, in fact, HAVE hunted down all outside (of these forums) information pertaining to vampires. So I don't need you to do that for me. But it's exactly why I'm telling you the answers I seek aren't out there. At best there is the occasional vague mumble with no meaningful follow up. "With the Justice System guards will notice transformed werewolves and stage 4 vampires and they will not like that behavior." "It's important for people to be able to see who the vampires are." "Hiding vampire appearance? We might do something like that with costumes." That's what we've gotten and it's pretty much ALL we've gotten. And no, it's not good enough. It raises far more questions than it answers. And THOSE questions continue to go unanswered.

pppontus

Basically, if they are like any other company what they do is they look at the feedback on the forums, if it seems good the CMs pass it on and it gets evaluated and possibly placed in a backlog of things to do, and prioritized accordingly. If you expect the CMs to give you an answer saying YES we will do this or NO we won't, I think you'll be sorely disappointed because it's most likely not up to them, and I doubt that the issue warrants them to actually follow up on it back and forth etc. That only happens with things that are major concerns for the community as a whole. I don't think posting thread after thread about it will make any difference, it's probably already been looked at and either it's in a todo that will happen in months time, or they decided not to do it as they choose to do what they think is most beneficial for the entire community.

MornaBaine

pppontus wrote: »

Basically, if they are like any other company what they do is they look at the feedback on the forums, if it seems good the CMs pass it on and it gets evaluated and possibly placed in a backlog of things to do, and prioritized accordingly. If you expect the CMs to give you an answer saying YES we will do this or NO we won't, I think you'll be sorely disappointed because it's most likely not up to them, and I doubt that the issue warrants them to actually follow up on it back and forth etc. That only happens with things that are major concerns for the community as a whole. I don't think posting thread after thread about it will make any difference, it's probably already been looked at and either it's in a todo that will happen in months time, or they decided not to do it as they choose to do what they think is most beneficial for the entire community.

Understood. And knowing, one way or the other, is all I really ask.

dodgehopper_ESO

What exactly is the problem with vampires apart from them being overpowered with no equal counter? I believe I have read one forum topic that talks about wanting more fluff for vampires, in the form of useful but equal powers. Most people don't have a problem with useful but equal, if that's what you're asking for. If you really believe that Vampires are equal to non vampires, then you really just aren't aware of reality. The only time being a vampire is even remotely a disadvantage is when doing Veteran City of Ash... otherwise its frankly too powerful. The ultimate alone is ridiculously powerful, being cheap, a pbaoe that can't be shut off, and it does both damage and returns health. Bat Swarm is everything all at once, and nothing like the minor effect that it was for the Vampire Lord in Skyrim.

I don't hate vampires (I have 3, 2 of which are Vet 14) but I think its hard to take some people as credible when they act like they are too weak. Again, I'll admit they have it rough in City of Ash but having one narrow situation where you are weak does not make you balanced.

So if we are to take this topic seriously, you need to actually delineate the points you feel are not being listened to by the Developers. You briefly touched on the topic of cosmetics and mechanics, so I'll touch on them in the rest of my reply here. I agree that the strange eczema that vampires get around the eyes is rather odd, but I like the veiny gray-translucent corpse-skin they get. I also agree that it would be nice if vampires had a neck bite animation for blood sucking instead of the blood funnel effect (lets leave blood funnels to nightblades).

Now lets discuss mechanics. I also feel that if we are to make an Exclusive World Skill line for Vampires, it would be nice to have a counterbalancing World Skill line for Vampire Hunters/Inquisitors. I know that people keep pointing to the Fighters guild in this regard, but there are so many things wrong about Fighters Guild skills, one of which that Vampires/Werewolves have access to them. I can accept this to some degree since it is the Fighters Guild, and really they should have some skills that aren't just powers handed down by Meridia via Sees-All-Colors. Fighters Guild should have its own combat techniques that work for Fighting (why most of their effects only work vs. undead/daedra is beyond me). Half the effects by FG are also random or don't work at all it seems. So this is another side to the vampire coin that needs addressing. I for one want to have the fun of being able to play Vampire -and- Vampire Hunter, and this is why I bring this topic up regularly. It would be very nice if an Inquisitor skill line were established in the World Skills list, as a counterbalance that was mutually exclusive to Werewolf/Vampire. Another problem with the mechanics of the Vampire skill line is that it could use some more interesting skills. Poison Claws comes to mind straight away with Skyrim as an inspiration, and a single target telekinetic hold might make for another good ability. These ideas are all well and good, but still need to have a good counterbalance. At the end of the day I just don't like playing Elder Vampires Online. I don't like going into battles against armies of undead Daggers or Pact people, particularly when so many of the Fighters Guild abilities either don't work, or work so poorly I'd rather use some other strategy to deal with them. I truly believe for Vampire to be interesting it needs to have good counters. Feeding for instance is countered by CC immunity (to the chagrin of many vampires). I understand why this is frustrating, but from a balance standpoint being locked in a longterm stun could be a death sentence. There needs to be a way to counter. This is why I recommend the Poison Claws ability, which would be thematic and also have more general utility. A vampire lord form might also be fun and I would have expected this to be the ultimate. I think if they toned bat swarm down a little and made it a standard ability, but gave vampires the opportunity to turn into a Vampire Lord form, it might actually have played out more favorably. What do you think?

Lokryn

Personally, I just think that ZOS is missing a golden opportunity here on expanding on vampires/werewolves especially since World of Darkness was cancelled. Look at all the movies, books, games on vampires, it's obviously very popular to a lot of people. ESO is the first AAA MMORPG that allows you to play vampires that I"m aware of. And vampires are obviously a large part of the Elder Scrolls franchise, the first expansion to Skyrim was all about vampires. So, I don't think it's too far fetched for us to be concerned about the future of vampire gameplay in ESO. This is all about ESO's potential. We can all sense the potential that ESO has and in many cases, ZOS has failed to delivery or take advantage of that potential.

Zershar_Vemod

I think they regret introducing Vampire and Werewolf and want to see both die out at this point to sweep everything under the rug...

RainfeatherUK

Im guessing they wont comment, unless alot of noise is made. Hence why I support the 'MornaBaine Campaign' to an extent.

Its likely they have it, like most things, on the backburner. Which like Spellcraft, Thieves/DB puts it squarely in the 'we arent ready to talk about it yet' camp.

Whilst potentially harmful to the forum crowd, theres a sizeable demographic that dont care and just play the game as is. Then there is the potentially huge console market that are going to need time to even formulate their own opinions.

So tick tock. Waiting game.

Slurg

Morna, perhaps you should lobby to get your RP guild represented in these guild summits that ZOS listens to and implements suggestions from. You have many ideas that appear to represent the desires of a segment of the population that enjoys role playing, based on the positive responses you receive for some of your threads. And lots of people, even non role players, liked your ideas for housing.

Or if all else fails, join up with one of those elite trial/ group content guilds that seem to have all the influence and see if you can't sneak one of your ideas up through that chain.

MornaBaine

Slurg wrote: »

Morna, perhaps you should lobby to get your RP guild represented in these guild summits that ZOS listens to and implements suggestions from. You have many ideas that appear to represent the desires of a segment of the population that enjoys role playing, based on the positive responses you receive for some of your threads. And lots of people, even non role players, liked your ideas for housing.

Or if all else fails, join up with one of those elite trial/ group content guilds that seem to have all the influence and see if you can't sneak one of your ideas up through that chain.

Thanks for the encouragement. However i can't see myself doing that as I don't feel ZOS should be showing the favoritism they are to this "elite" band of guilds. I have nothing against the guilds themselves but I feel it's a very bad move to freeze out the majority of the playerbase while getting cozy with a few small groups. Personally I feel these summits should be attended by randomly chosen individuals who sign up for them.

My guild, which is primarily a roleplaying guild focused on vampires and werewolves, has about 35 vampire players who all pretty much feel as I do. That FEELS like a lot to me but even so I understand we are a tiny sliver of the player base with no statistical significance. As such, I don't feel my guild merits a large say like these other guilds have. But then, I don't feel these other guilds merit it either. Rather, I wold like to see a representative portion of the overall playerbase have that kind of say. ZOS could set up a sign up here once the forums open up to EVERYBODY with the B2P changeover, and then simply choose a set number of those who sign up by lottery. That would be far more fair.

MornaBaine

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

What exactly is the problem with vampires apart from them being overpowered with no equal counter? I believe I have read one forum topic that talks about wanting more fluff for vampires, in the form of useful but equal powers. Most people don't have a problem with useful but equal, if that's what you're asking for. If you really believe that Vampires are equal to non vampires, then you really just aren't aware of reality. The only time being a vampire is even remotely a disadvantage is when doing Veteran City of Ash... otherwise its frankly too powerful. The ultimate alone is ridiculously powerful, being cheap, a pbaoe that can't be shut off, and it does both damage and returns health. Bat Swarm is everything all at once, and nothing like the minor effect that it was for the Vampire Lord in Skyrim.

I don't hate vampires (I have 3, 2 of which are Vet 14) but I think its hard to take some people as credible when they act like they are too weak. Again, I'll admit they have it rough in City of Ash but having one narrow situation where you are weak does not make you balanced.

So if we are to take this topic seriously, you need to actually delineate the points you feel are not being listened to by the Developers. You briefly touched on the topic of cosmetics and mechanics, so I'll touch on them in the rest of my reply here. I agree that the strange eczema that vampires get around the eyes is rather odd, but I like the veiny gray-translucent corpse-skin they get. I also agree that it would be nice if vampires had a neck bite animation for blood sucking instead of the blood funnel effect (lets leave blood funnels to nightblades).

Now lets discuss mechanics. I also feel that if we are to make an Exclusive World Skill line for Vampires, it would be nice to have a counterbalancing World Skill line for Vampire Hunters/Inquisitors. I know that people keep pointing to the Fighters guild in this regard, but there are so many things wrong about Fighters Guild skills, one of which that Vampires/Werewolves have access to them. I can accept this to some degree since it is the Fighters Guild, and really they should have some skills that aren't just powers handed down by Meridia via Sees-All-Colors. Fighters Guild should have its own combat techniques that work for Fighting (why most of their effects only work vs. undead/daedra is beyond me). Half the effects by FG are also random or don't work at all it seems. So this is another side to the vampire coin that needs addressing. I for one want to have the fun of being able to play Vampire -and- Vampire Hunter, and this is why I bring this topic up regularly. It would be very nice if an Inquisitor skill line were established in the World Skills list, as a counterbalance that was mutually exclusive to Werewolf/Vampire. Another problem with the mechanics of the Vampire skill line is that it could use some more interesting skills. Poison Claws comes to mind straight away with Skyrim as an inspiration, and a single target telekinetic hold might make for another good ability. These ideas are all well and good, but still need to have a good counterbalance. At the end of the day I just don't like playing Elder Vampires Online. I don't like going into battles against armies of undead Daggers or Pact people, particularly when so many of the Fighters Guild abilities either don't work, or work so poorly I'd rather use some other strategy to deal with them. I truly believe for Vampire to be interesting it needs to have good counters. Feeding for instance is countered by CC immunity (to the chagrin of many vampires). I understand why this is frustrating, but from a balance standpoint being locked in a longterm stun could be a death sentence. There needs to be a way to counter. This is why I recommend the Poison Claws ability, which would be thematic and also have more general utility. A vampire lord form might also be fun and I would have expected this to be the ultimate. I think if they toned bat swarm down a little and made it a standard ability, but gave vampires the opportunity to turn into a Vampire Lord form, it might actually have played out more favorably. What do you think?

I actually really like a lot of your ideas but feel this post is outside the purview of this particular thread, which is just focused, at this point, on getting ANY sort of comment from the Devs regarding vampires. If you would consider reposting this on this thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/137957/some-suggestions-for-improving-vampires/p1 which is actually all about making vampires better, I would be happy to dig down into the nuts and bolts of your proposals. I think they really do deserve closer and expanded attention so I hope you will. Thanks!

RainfeatherUK

I have a feeling that much of that favouritism comes from the loyalty that people say ZoS doesnt have.

The people in Entropy Rising for rexample put in tons (maybe even thousands by now) of hours into giving feedback, testing systems and otherwise - and on the whole its been good quality. They've taken some of the load off of the devs in terms of carrying out research on the live game.

Theres been a good many guilds like that ofcourse (Plugged ER because im most familiar with them) and im not surprised that their opinions are valued.

If you really want to push your (agenda? likely not quite the right term) Morna, you really have to appeal to the right groups. Its no way near perfect - but those so called 'elitists' have some truly great people amongst them. Ones that could easily add to your ideas and bring them to Guild Summits, Quake and a good many other places where they will actually be heard.

MornaBaine

RainfeatherUK wrote: »

I have a feeling that much of that favouritism comes from the loyalty that people say ZoS doesnt have.

The people in Entropy Rising for rexample put in tons (maybe even thousands by now) of hours into giving feedback, testing systems and otherwise - and on the whole its been good quality. They've taken some of the load off of the devs in terms of carrying out research on the live game.

Theres been a good many guilds like that ofcourse (Plugged ER because im most familiar with them) and im not surprised that their opinions are valued.

If you really want to push your (agenda? likely not quite the right term) Morna, you really have to appeal to the right groups. Its no way near perfect - but those so called 'elitists' have some truly great people amongst them. Ones that could easily add to your ideas and bring them to Guild Summits, Quake and a good many other places where they will actually be heard.

You make some good points I can't deny. I may not like it too much but it IS the system currently in place. Thanks for giving me something to ponder.

Elridge

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

It's not just that you're the most vocal. You're one of about five to ten people on the forums who have this as their cause celebre. Which is fine. But the fact that those five to ten people keep posting about it doesn't actually make it more important to the community at large.

And what changes does the community want? Even based on the current vampire thread, most people can't even agree on what changes (if any) are needed.

This is pretty true, I see the same people post the same threads over and over about vampires needing "more" all the time but in the end the majority still seem to debate against it. I'm just glad @MornaBaine is putting together clear statements and keeps a level head about it, so +1 to her

Though with how active the staff is when things turn south, I would imagine they already understand the concern. It would be nice to see them comment in acknowledgement, but I'm sure other people feel the same with their concerns. I'm a bit confused about the concerns though.

In your opinion are they underpowered?
Or just not fun enough because they don't have enough skills?

because there's a reason they were hit with the nerf bat, they were waaay too OP.. now they seem to just be P, powerful, which is good because they no longer dominate but remain a viable option. If it's the fun factor, then that would probably require a complete revamping (no pun intended... ok kinda intended) of the skill line, but would be really nice. I could completely understand if people think they aren't fun enough... but underpowered? Less powerful then before yes, which is good, underpowered? Not really.

I would just assume ZoS is watching these threads, how could they not, they're all over the place. I guess the generic "we're watching you" statement would be nice? o.O

RainfeatherUK

MornaBaine wrote: »

You make some good points I can't deny. I may not like it too much but it IS the system currently in place. Thanks for giving me something to ponder.

You're more than welcome. Its clearly something you care alot about, so formulating it into something more concise; getting others to help with polling that data - and then building up a general consensus that can/could influence positive changes; can only be a good thing.

I find people often have good points but they dont work enough with each other and the broader community to build them into a workable plan; thus it never gets heard.

So dont give up.