VELOCIOUS CURSE DAMAGE: SORCERER MAGICKA BUILDS FIX

Lussura

I have a suggestion for ZoS. Sorcerer Magicka builds are currently terrible. We have a huge thread dedicated to fixing the class. However no one is talking about ways to fix Sorcerer dps. Personally I think Crushing Shock spam...should have never existed. I also understand some player enjoy Sorcerer pets and they did need a buff. However I understand Sorcerer players need other options besides being a togglemancer if they so chose.

I think increasing the damage on Velocious Curse is the place to do this. If it's damage where increased by 35-40%. We would see a resurgence of Crystal Fragment builds in PVE. Players casting curse, to get the instant Crystal Fragments, and hard casting Crystal Fragments. Players could use Structured Entropy as a fill damage over time as well. This along with Spell Symmetry. Inner Light, and Ice comet...would make a wonderful PVE build.

However it all depends on buffing Velocious Curse. We would see no change in PVP content. As curse can be cleansed off easily.

So tell me what others think?

Ezareth

Curse is still extremely effective in PvP. I love when it is cleansed as I can cast it twice again in quick succession as it explodes faster.

XEVENEX

With badass gear and 3600 champion points, curse does 6k tooltip damage. 6k / 3.5 seconds = 1714 dps. Thats terrible and 15% doesnt even get you in the same ballpark as crushing shock. Hard casting frags is terrible and is hard counterd by any melee range or, wait for it, crushing shock.

Lets talk about fixing sorc, fine, but lets not be silly, ok?

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Inappropriate Content and Language]

Lussura

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Curse is still extremely effective in PvP. I love when it is cleansed as I can cast it twice again in quick succession as it explodes faster.

This can be easily changed. Also casting it twice is wasting your own magicka. If you know they are going to cleanse it....

Lussura

XEVENEX wrote: »

Can I have some of what you're smoking? With badass gear and 3600 champion points, curse does 6k tooltip damage. 6k / 3.5 seconds = 1714 dps. Thats terrible and 15% doesnt even get you in the same ballpark as crushing shock. Hard casting frags is terrible and is hard counterd by any melee range or, wait for it, crushing shock.

Lets talk about fixing sorc, fine, but lets not be silly, ok?

Then simply buff it's damage further. Also ZoS has stated 101 times 3600 points is not the true cap and is only for testing. You're never going to have that many points...ever

As for Crushing Shock...players need to get over it. It's a build of the past with this nerf. It should have never been a viable build in the first place. Believe ZoS agree's as well.

Ezareth

XEVENEX wrote: »

Can I have some of what you're smoking? With badass gear and 3600 champion points, curse does 6k tooltip damage. 6k / 3.5 seconds = 1714 dps. Thats terrible and 15% doesnt even get you in the same ballpark as crushing shock. Hard casting frags is terrible and is hard counterd by any melee range or, wait for it, crushing shock.

Lets talk about fixing sorc, fine, but lets not be silly, ok?

I can't speak to PvE as PvE is a snoozefest but in PvP Curse is still awesome. If I'm not mistaken they already bumped up the base damage beyond the normal scaling.

I'd love to see the damage buffed further though so by all means, buff away.

In PvP the biggest thing is timing the curse explosion with a host of other abilities that hit almost at the same time. It also can't be blocked on live (although I think this changes in 1.6).

It only costs me 1007 magicka on PTS. I'd happily exchange curse spam for purge/cleanse spam any time as I always come out ahead. (don't forget every spell cast also gives me a 35% chance at a very cheap damage boosted fragment)

XEVENEX

Curse is a burst skill, not a main dps skill. It doesnt qualify as a replacement to crushing shock. Its like shoving a square peg through a round hole. Please move away from the curse discussion.

Talk about making frags instant or a whole new skill or something...

Ezareth

Spammable Instant cast fragments. My how the NB tears would drown us all.

You have my support!

Gorthax

Lussura wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

Can I have some of what you're smoking? With badass gear and 3600 champion points, curse does 6k tooltip damage. 6k / 3.5 seconds = 1714 dps. Thats terrible and 15% doesnt even get you in the same ballpark as crushing shock. Hard casting frags is terrible and is hard counterd by any melee range or, wait for it, crushing shock.

Lets talk about fixing sorc, fine, but lets not be silly, ok?

Then simply buff it's damage further. Also ZoS has stated 101 times 3600 points is not the true cap and is only for testing. You're never going to have that many points...ever

As for Crushing Shock...players need to get over it. It's a build of the past with this nerf. It should have never been a viable build in the first place. Believe ZoS agree's as well.

Source to them saying it? Because I'm pretty sure we can all get to 3600. The only variables are time and effort

Robbmrp

IMO to get average DPS you have to use CS, a skill outside Sorcerers class line. This is really unacceptable and shows you how bad the DPS is for their class lines.

IMHO they need to increase the damage done within the Sorcerer skill lines. Take Liquid Lightning for example, this spell is GREATLY under powered. This spell should do the same total damage as CS to single targets if NOT a little more. They could then drop down the damage 20-25% for multiple targets.
Just by increasing Sorcerer spells a little would greatly benefit the class and not give them OP status. Increasing the power on this it would reduce the Pulsar Spams for AOE damage which yet again is outside the Sorcerer Skill line. It's the simplest update they could make!

The main reason we can choose any type of weapon is to give us the diversity of being able to create a character any way we choose. We shouldn't HAVE to chose those skills outside of ANY Class to do decent damage.

Ezareth

I hated the fact that in order to maximize my DPS on live I had to increase weapon damage, not spell power due to the way Crushing Shock worked and the fact there is no mana efficient high damage sorc ability.

Dracane

Curse was acceptable, because it ignored blocks, it was special.
Now it's blockable and is not special anymore.

Lussura

IMO to get average DPS you have to use CS, a skill outside Sorcerers class line. This is really unacceptable and shows you how bad the DPS is for their class lines.

Ya....

Seraphyel

I would like to see some kind of revamp of the ability.

Why do we have to wait 3,5 seconds to get the high burst damage?

Make it a DoT + explosion skill. Let it make 50% of the burst damage as a DoT within the 3,5 seconds and let it explode as usual.

Or give it some kind of addition that as long as Curse is active Mages Fury always explodes and doesn't need the 20% health thing.

Nihil

XEVENEX wrote: »

Curse is a burst skill, not a main dps skill. It doesnt qualify as a replacement to crushing shock. Its like shoving a square peg through a round hole. Please move away from the curse discussion.

Talk about making frags instant or a whole new skill or something...

Yes Curse is not a spam skill, but it could be part of a rotational skill. While comparing dps, also think about damage per cast (similar to DoT's) these skills are suppose to be used in conjunction to the main skills to increase dps. With that... OP, you need to be careful when increasing damage as this could imbalance pvp. Curse should be similar damage per cast as DoT's, I think it might (might as I haven't compared with epic gear) already be there. There should be better ways to improve the inherent factor of the class with out creating a huge burst in pvp.

What sorcs are missing in comparison to other classes is damage passives that are outside their class, DK's too but they have a major increase to their Defensive capabilities (increase block and 2.5k spell resist). I personally would like to see another ability added to exploitation (passive increase to spell and and armor penetration?) as our personal buff was taken away when they gave each class the passive buff skill for allies(templars had theirs taken away too, but DK and NB's had it added into other passives, with some rebalancing).

Dracane

Seraphyel wrote: »

I would like to see some kind of revamp of the ability.

Why do we have to wait 3,5 seconds to get the high burst damage?

Make it a DoT + explosion skill. Let it make 50% of the burst damage as a DoT within the 3,5 seconds and let it explode as usual.

Or give it some kind of addition that as long as Curse is active Mages Fury always explodes and doesn't need the 20% health thing.

I appreciate your creativity (so don't take this as an offense)
But making it a DoT would be a bad idea. We rely on curse, because it comes so suddenly after 3.5 seconds. If we time that moment, we can kill enemies. So curse is basically what allowes us to even kill enemies.

Yea, the damage is not impressive. But having this timer is a very important thing for killing enemies.

danovic

I hate curse in pve myself for the average mob it goes off a second after they already dead so did no damage. It needs to go off after 3 seconds.

Nihil

Dracane wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

I would like to see some kind of revamp of the ability.

Why do we have to wait 3,5 seconds to get the high burst damage?

Make it a DoT + explosion skill. Let it make 50% of the burst damage as a DoT within the 3,5 seconds and let it explode as usual.

Or give it some kind of addition that as long as Curse is active Mages Fury always explodes and doesn't need the 20% health thing.

I appreciate your creativity (so don't take this as an offense)
But making it a DoT would be a bad idea. We rely on curse, because it comes so suddenly after 3.5 seconds. If we time that moment, we can kill enemies. So curse is basically what allowes us to even kill enemies.

Yea, the damage is not impressive. But having this timer is a very important thing for killing enemies.

Actually for a range skill, I think the damage is pretty impressive. It is similar to DoT's, which should have one of the highest damage per cast (under cast time skills).

Dracane

Nihil wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

I would like to see some kind of revamp of the ability.

Why do we have to wait 3,5 seconds to get the high burst damage?

Make it a DoT + explosion skill. Let it make 50% of the burst damage as a DoT within the 3,5 seconds and let it explode as usual.

Or give it some kind of addition that as long as Curse is active Mages Fury always explodes and doesn't need the 20% health thing.

I appreciate your creativity (so don't take this as an offense)
But making it a DoT would be a bad idea. We rely on curse, because it comes so suddenly after 3.5 seconds. If we time that moment, we can kill enemies. So curse is basically what allowes us to even kill enemies.

Yea, the damage is not impressive. But having this timer is a very important thing for killing enemies.

Actually for a range skill, I think the damage is pretty impressive. It is similar to DoT's, which should have one of the highest damage per cast (under cast time skills).

It's okay, but not impressive. I prefered the unblockable version in 1.5. It was reliable.

Nihil

Dracane wrote: »

Nihil wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

I would like to see some kind of revamp of the ability.

Why do we have to wait 3,5 seconds to get the high burst damage?

Make it a DoT + explosion skill. Let it make 50% of the burst damage as a DoT within the 3,5 seconds and let it explode as usual.

Or give it some kind of addition that as long as Curse is active Mages Fury always explodes and doesn't need the 20% health thing.

I appreciate your creativity (so don't take this as an offense)
But making it a DoT would be a bad idea. We rely on curse, because it comes so suddenly after 3.5 seconds. If we time that moment, we can kill enemies. So curse is basically what allowes us to even kill enemies.

Yea, the damage is not impressive. But having this timer is a very important thing for killing enemies.

Actually for a range skill, I think the damage is pretty impressive. It is similar to DoT's, which should have one of the highest damage per cast (under cast time skills).

It's okay, but not impressive. I prefered the unblockable version in 1.5. It was reliable.

aaa, that I can agree with. I was going from a pure damage perspective not blockable / unblockable. I do want to try mines in PVP now, see if those are non blockable (nice deterent for melee players?).

Seraphyel

FYI: Curse & Magicka Detonation in combination work very well, I tested it on the PTS.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Why did they make Curse blockable?

Is Mage's Fury now blockable too?

Merlin13KAGL

@Nihil , Minefield is good, but expensive.

Daedric Tomb just begs to be placed on or at the top of stairs... Good for a shield charge surprise, as well.

Morvul

a "dps-spam" skill for sorcs would be a good idea - but curse is the wrong choice. curse already servers a very different purpose....

increasing the base-damage (i.E.: the non-execute/non-explosion part) of Mages-wrath might be an interesting idea. (also, not entirely without issues)

Jahosefat

Lussura wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

Can I have some of what you're smoking? With badass gear and 3600 champion points, curse does 6k tooltip damage. 6k / 3.5 seconds = 1714 dps. Thats terrible and 15% doesnt even get you in the same ballpark as crushing shock. Hard casting frags is terrible and is hard counterd by any melee range or, wait for it, crushing shock.

Lets talk about fixing sorc, fine, but lets not be silly, ok?

Then simply buff it's damage further. Also ZoS has stated 101 times 3600 points is not the true cap and is only for testing. You're never going to have that many points...ever

As for Crushing Shock...players need to get over it. It's a build of the past with this nerf. It should have never been a viable build in the first place. Believe ZoS agree's as well.

For curse to take the place of CS it should do ~15k damage. Also, CS has been the main dps build for sorcs for... 6-7 months? Took them a while to figure that out...

Ezareth

Dracane wrote: »

Nihil wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

I would like to see some kind of revamp of the ability.

Why do we have to wait 3,5 seconds to get the high burst damage?

Make it a DoT + explosion skill. Let it make 50% of the burst damage as a DoT within the 3,5 seconds and let it explode as usual.

Or give it some kind of addition that as long as Curse is active Mages Fury always explodes and doesn't need the 20% health thing.

I appreciate your creativity (so don't take this as an offense)
But making it a DoT would be a bad idea. We rely on curse, because it comes so suddenly after 3.5 seconds. If we time that moment, we can kill enemies. So curse is basically what allowes us to even kill enemies.

Yea, the damage is not impressive. But having this timer is a very important thing for killing enemies.

Actually for a range skill, I think the damage is pretty impressive. It is similar to DoT's, which should have one of the highest damage per cast (under cast time skills).

It's okay, but not impressive. I prefered the unblockable version in 1.5. It was reliable.

The primary benefit to me is the fact you can apply it through dodge roll.

Ezareth

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Why did they make Curse blockable?

Is Mage's Fury now blockable too?

God I wish they'd make it blockable....talk about a cheap way to drain someone of stam.

Dracane

Nihil wrote: »

aaa, that I can agree with. I was going from a pure damage perspective not blockable / unblockable. I do want to try mines in PVP now, see if those are non blockable (nice deterent for melee players?).

The are blockable....

Dagoth_Rac

danovic wrote: »

I hate curse in pve myself for the average mob it goes off a second after they already dead so did no damage. It needs to go off after 3 seconds.

If something dies in less than than 3.5 seconds, there are dozens of effective ways to kill it. DPS in PvE really means sustained DPS against a boss with millions of health and who takes many minutes to kill. Sorcerers are trailing behind for that kind of endgame DPS.

Robbmrp

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Why did they make Curse blockable?

Is Mage's Fury now blockable too?

God I wish they'd make it blockable....talk about a cheap way to drain someone of stam.

If their dead it doesn't matter how much stamina they HAD... lol

Dead > Stamina loss

Snit

Curse is part of a sorc's burst damage toolkit. Simply increasing its damage would obviously help sustained DPS, but it would also increase burst damage considerably.

It would perhaps be smarter to adjust sorc sustained DPS without providing major buffs to their burst, as well.