We're unlikely to wait 3 years for player housing ZOS

Valencer

MornaBaine wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

I think there's more exciting stuff to be done, honestly. Real content like the imperial city that is worth spending lots of time in and has some significant impact on the way the game is played. Or even spellcrafting.

Housing is neat and all, but it mostly seems like something you'd spend a little bit of time with playing around and then you'll hardly look back.

And instanced housing isn't nearly as fun as buying a home in oblivion or skyrim (where it was just you in the world). There the houses you bought were really your personal property.

You underestimate the desire of roleplayers to have places to roleplay where they won't be constantly trolled.

Oh, I probably do. But I think it would be nice if they could make housing have some kind of impact on the game as a whole, instead of just being an instanced place for roleplayers to do their thing. (Of course, it could still be that)

I realise that's probably asking for a lot of innovation, but who knows.

Gix

edbudd39b14_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Really, this stuff is pretty easy at this point.

Agreed. I "coded" a house for myself in Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim using the Construction Set they provided with each game, supposedly just a cut down version of what the devs used. All the art assets were there already...but anybody who has played an ES game this century knows all that.

I find it hard to believe a similar tool is not used with ESO. I've never instanced, but conceptually it looks trivial.

So I'm scratching my head here. Housing must be against their religion.

Yeah, it's pretty easy to place an object in the world and assign it a cell and a owner in a single-player game.

It gets progressively more complicated when you're building this in the context of an MMO; being primarily a matter of database, server load and player access/ownership.

Then, there's a matter of making housing a meaningful feature. If you merely want to have a door somewhere that leads to a specific empty room of your choice... then, yeah, it's easy. But that's pretty boring and it will only be "your house" from a role-playing standpoint; what would be the point of owning the space?

You want drawers and chests that hold items? Well, then, the server has to keep a database per chest/drawer, per player. While feasible, it's more complicated (because it has to track containers) and overlaps with the game design purpose of a Bank (which is far easier to do).

Dave2836

I'm just grasping at straws... the following is in no way factual but rather ideas player housing might implement.

If player housing was implemented, they should contract Elianora because I find her skyrim house mods fantastic.

1-Justice system tells me after pvp is implemented player housing is next. Why? Think about it, you can now use those worthless lockpicks to invade someone's home, eat their food steal their gold and have duels just like in real life.

2-Player housing might be integrated with the woodworking and black smith skill.

3-Murders and fights will initiate a secret sleuthing quest to find the culprits or track their whereabouts. Imagine finding DNA (in Diablo it would be the form of an ear) and attempting to figuring out where the perp ran to, what fence they used and retrieving the laundered item.

4-Atm, lockpicks aee nearly worthless as I come across more picks than chests and the chests don't always contain the coolest stuff. So yeah I expect locks to be a new blacksmithing item.

Ok thats it for me. Discuss and flame or or add or whatever you guys do nowadays.

MrGhosty

Gix wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

However, SWTOR did not come from a line of previous games that had housing as an integral feature. Many of us were (and still are) appalled that there was no player housing system at launch as it was expected considering its prominence in the previous TES games.

Please enlighten me. Which Elder Scrolls game had housing an as integral feature?

I personally have no experience with Area and Daggerfall but:

Morrowind? Didn't you had to murder the previous owner to unofficially "own" the place?

Oblivion? Mage Tower, Thieve's Den and Vile Lair were DLCs.

Skyrim? Hearth DLC.

As far as I know, no, player housing has never been an integral feature.

Morrowind tasked you with choosing a house based on your chosen affiliation and was difficult to reach, but provided a meaningful benefit for those who wanted to partake. Oblivion had many homes in the base game with each providing different options as far as the kind of building you wanted which also included a house tied to a quest that was really nice after you finished. The additional DLC options added later just provided more unique home types. Skyrim offered a house for sale in every major town with the first being made available quite early in the game progression. The hearthfire DLC allowed players to place homes they could customize within the remain keep areas that didn't have housing in them so you could essentially have a home in each "district".

There is a large percentage of ES players who always have enjoyed having their houses as the classic Elder Scrolls stereotype is of a player that hoards everything. Additionally the homes provided bonus such as being "well rested" which provided a buff of some description, storage options (in later games) and finally in Skyrim display spaces to show off weapons, armor, cook, enchant, alchemy etc with storage as well so for the sake of convenience they were fairly integral to the overall gameplay experience.

While I can't speak for the earlier ES games, there were also many home mods made for Skyrim as well which often did quite well on the steam workshop or via the independent mod source which leads me to believe that housing is quite a big feature for many longtime Elder Scrolls players.

For me personally I was very bothered when I found out the potential development for housing in ESO was so far off. It could be handled simply by making the player housing instanced "pockets of oblivion" much like we happen across through multiple quest lines. Something the size of Bad Man's Hollows would provide ample space for a home space and some additional plots a la Hearthfire.

While I would prefer to see some options be available via in game crafting to give master crafters some more things to make and another potential revenue stream. I see no reason why there couldn't also be themed options in the crown store as well as selling the housing DLC via that as well. The customizable plots could provide a means to grow alchemy ingredients via some sort of mini game, a crafting station, etc so that housing provides a benefit but not such a considerable one that players who don't want a house would feel disadvantaged.

It would also be nice if you could have the option to set your housing to be guild housing with some different building options and something that was beneficial for a guild to have.

The housing should have additional storage options but not be linked like the personal bank and guild bank. If you want to get something you have stored in your house you would need to visit your house but that could be easily available via the transitus system without it being "lore breaking" as you simply open a portal to your pocket dimension.

I'm fine with them monetizing the housing system, but I also agree that it should be placed as a priority to happen sooner rather than later, additionally this would be a perfect way to thank and reward those who subbed to the game from the beginning without destabilizing current monetizing efforts.

Gidorick

I still think a multi-phase release plan is the way to go. Even if the first phase is an already furnished non-customizable space.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/145287/another-housing-suggestion-a-3-phase-release-plan

Tapio75

At least within next 2 years or so.. Spellcrafting first.

Metrobius

Gix wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

However, SWTOR did not come from a line of previous games that had housing as an integral feature. Many of us were (and still are) appalled that there was no player housing system at launch as it was expected considering its prominence in the previous TES games.

Please enlighten me. Which Elder Scrolls game had housing an as integral feature?

I personally have no experience with Area and Daggerfall but:

Morrowind? Didn't you had to murder the previous owner to unofficially "own" the place?

Oblivion? Mage Tower, Thieve's Den and Vile Lair were DLCs.

Skyrim? Hearth DLC.

As far as I know, no, player housing has never been an integral feature.

Are you serious? In Morrowind you got a house from tue great house faction quests, 1 of three different houses.
In Oblivion there were houses in many different cities that you couls buy from the local lord. There was a greT quezt you could do to clear a hiuse of a ghoat and move in then buy upgrades for the place.
In skyrim you could buy houses from the lords of towns and then buy upgrades for them.
Its like you didnt play the games.

snowmanflvb14_ESO

SWTOR had player housing at launch it was called your personal ship

MornaBaine

Gix wrote: »

edbudd39b14_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Really, this stuff is pretty easy at this point.

Agreed. I "coded" a house for myself in Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim using the Construction Set they provided with each game, supposedly just a cut down version of what the devs used. All the art assets were there already...but anybody who has played an ES game this century knows all that.

I find it hard to believe a similar tool is not used with ESO. I've never instanced, but conceptually it looks trivial.

So I'm scratching my head here. Housing must be against their religion.

Yeah, it's pretty easy to place an object in the world and assign it a cell and a owner in a single-player game.

It gets progressively more complicated when you're building this in the context of an MMO; being primarily a matter of database, server load and player access/ownership.

Then, there's a matter of making housing a meaningful feature. If you merely want to have a door somewhere that leads to a specific empty room of your choice... then, yeah, it's easy. But that's pretty boring and it will only be "your house" from a role-playing standpoint; what would be the point of owning the space?

You want drawers and chests that hold items? Well, then, the server has to keep a database per chest/drawer, per player. While feasible, it's more complicated (because it has to track containers) and overlaps with the game design purpose of a Bank (which is far easier to do).

I think a good way to implement storage chests would be to have them add slots to your personal bank (the "bigger" the chest the more expensive it would be) which you could then access from your house as well as the bank. BUT you could not access any guild banks or guild stores. This gives players the "home storage" they want without taking away the reason to actually go to a bank in the first place so the city hubs don't empty out. Plus then instead of having to "keep track" of each individual chest and its contents the chest is just another interface with your already existing bank.

rawne1980b16_ESO

Gix wrote: »

Oblivion? Mage Tower, Thieve's Den and Vile Lair were DLCs.

Skyrim? Hearth DLC.

As far as I know, no, player housing has never been an integral feature.

You obviously never played Oblivion or Skyrim.

Oblivion had player homes integral to the game in Anvil, Bravil, Bruma, Cheydinhal, Chorrol, Imperial City, Leyawiin and Skingrad.

A purchasable player home in every city included in the base game.

In Skyrim there were several player homes.

Breezehome in Whiterun.
Hjerim in Windhelm.
Honeyside in Riften.
Proudspire Manor in Solitude.
Vlindrel Hall in Markarth.

All available in the base game, no DLC needed.

Morrowind you could own a home but either had to kill the owner or do certain quests.

But to say that homes were only in DLC for Oblivion and Skyrim shows you never played them and don't know how Google works or a quick search would have shown you how wrong you are without me needing to bother.

WatchYourSixx

I don't remember any game other than skyrim to have player housing in the elder scrolls series.

Edit: I remember oblivion having one home in each town purchasable. Still only two tes games.

zward887_ESO

I could certainly wait 3 years... housing is of no interest to me personally. Especially considering how anemic the end game is after you've finished Caldwell's Gold.

However, I think the easiest way to implement housing in this game is a mechanic similar to Eyevea. You create a 'pocket plane' instance and allow players to customize and build different structures through questing, gathering tons of in game materials, and plenty of cash-shop cosmetics.

If we're gonna do housing lets do it right and make it more than superficial fluff. I want a long term system of upgrades you can slowly work on similar to the champion system. Lets actually create a whole system of additions to it. It would make a convenient piece of DLC too, you just have to purchase your pocket plane and away you go.

You could scale it to also have publicly accessible community areas a la FFXIV:ARR.

MornaBaine

While "pocket dimensions" are fine for the homes of wizards I suppose, I prefer a system that ties into the actual world without taking up a bunch of actual space within it. Hence why I suggested "housing cities" in each zone, with the appropriate architectural look of the area. But the housing itself beyond each door would be instanced.

s7732425ub17_ESO

Player housing is one of those features that everyone seems to want, yet it adds very little to the game.

MornaBaine

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Player housing is one of those features that everyone seems to want, yet it adds very little to the game.

Depends on how you use it. I guarantee my guild would be at my house all the time. Because I'd essentially make it the guild hall. Which reminds me, you should be able to set individuals to be able to go into your house even if you aren't logged in, as many as can be in a guild.

Elijah_Crow

I and everyone I play with would she'll out $$ for player housing. Even more if it included player run shops. This is where Zen could make some good money from the Crown Store.

Gidorick

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Player housing is one of those features that everyone seems to want, yet it adds very little to the game.

But could add very much money to ZOS' pockets.

Gidorick

MornaBaine wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Player housing is one of those features that everyone seems to want, yet it adds very little to the game.

Depends on how you use it. I guarantee my guild would be at my house all the time. Because I'd essentially make it the guild hall. Which reminds me, you should be able to set individuals to be able to go into your house even if you aren't logged in, as many as can be in a guild.

I say leave that option for Guild Halls.

leandro.800ub17_ESO

We all saw things already in testing with pictures and development comments like spellcraft . dark brotherhood , thieves guild. imperial city, new zone . remove vr ranks , justice system pvp
So all this ill be in game before player housing so yes 3 years minimum.

morvegil

LOL @ "Being locked out of our houses"

MornaBaine

morvegil wrote: »

LOL @ "Being locked out of our houses"

Thank you for illustrating exactly WHY there needs to be player housing.

AlexDougherty

Gix wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

However, SWTOR did not come from a line of previous games that had housing as an integral feature. Many of us were (and still are) appalled that there was no player housing system at launch as it was expected considering its prominence in the previous TES games.

Please enlighten me. Which Elder Scrolls game had housing an as integral feature?

I personally have no experience with Area and Daggerfall but:

Morrowind? Didn't you had to murder the previous owner to unofficially "own" the place?

Oblivion? Mage Tower, Thieve's Den and Vile Lair were DLCs.

Skyrim? Hearth DLC.

As far as I know, no, player housing has never been an integral feature.

Can't speak about morrowind.

Oblivion you bought houses in every city, one had a quest to clear out a ghost.
Mage's Tower, Thieves Den and Vile Lair were SPECIAL houses via DLC, not the only houses.

Skyrim you bought houses in every city again, one had a quest attached to it involving a necromancer.
Hearthstone DLC was for crafting a home, you could still buy them.

Rosveen

WatchYourSixx wrote: »

I don't remember any game other than skyrim to have player housing in the elder scrolls series.

Edit: I remember oblivion having one home in each town purchasable. Still only two tes games.

In Morrowind you could build a stronghold as a quest for each of the Great Houses. You received an estate in Raven Rock in the Bloodmoon expansion. Also, you could move into pretty much any place if you killed the owner.

SantieClaws

I already found my dream home in ESO.

http://youtu.be/9ggyBsXLEh8

In Hallin's Stand if I recall correctly. I'd build this place in real life if I had the money. I'd add a few bookshelves mind.

If they have player housing I want one just like this. Got to have that fireplace!

Wizzo91

Maybe you should try out Repopulation. It is still in Alpha phase. I heard it house housing and you can build your own towns / nations.

I will probably give it a try in my holidays.

MornaBaine

wenxue2222b16_ESO wrote: »

I already found my dream home in ESO.

http://youtu.be/9ggyBsXLEh8

In Hallin's Stand if I recall correctly. I'd build this place in real life if I had the money. I'd add a few bookshelves mind.

If they have player housing I want one just like this. Got to have that fireplace!

Ha! I know exactly which house this is and have thought the very same thing! It may well end up as the "IC home" of one of my characters. Well, at least until they lock us out of it with the Justice System and entering it becomes a crime.

MornaBaine

Wizzo91 wrote: »

Maybe you should try out Repopulation. It is still in Alpha phase. I heard it house housing and you can build your own towns / nations.

I will probably give it a try in my holidays.

Although I prefer fantasy and historical genres I DO like sci fi as well and I have to say that game looks freaking amazing. It could very well end up as my next "home."

Zershar_Vemod

Funny thing about SWTOR's player housing is that they had it in very early testing.

The reason it was taken out and not touched upon was that, when hub worlds (Coruscant, Dromund Kaas) were originally going to be the main HQs for factions (instead of the two space stations), the game would crash all the time from the instances created by the apartments. Bioware gave up and abandoned said apartments were then pushed back until the past year.

It took them so long because they didn't know what they were doing and had to deal with a crap engine.

Mercutio

My experience with player housing is from SWG and EQ2. Very different approaches. In the former it was meaningful, in the later there was an initial rush of novelty followed by a gigantic shrug.

But if it is something people want I am all for it. I'm just not sure the game's structure would allow for what I personally consider a meaningful experience (ala SWG). I can see how the RP crowd would dig it regardless of implementation, but how big a demographic are they?

MornaBaine

Mercutio wrote: »

My experience with player housing is from SWG and EQ2. Very different approaches. In the former it was meaningful, in the later there was an initial rush of novelty followed by a gigantic shrug.

But if it is something people want I am all for it. I'm just not sure the game's structure would allow for what I personally consider a meaningful experience (ala SWG). I can see how the RP crowd would dig it regardless of implementation, but how big a demographic are they?

Apparently big enough to support the Crown Store....or at least that's what ZOS is banking on.