The Magicka - Stamina Divide - The new meta for 1.6

RinaldoGandolphi

So i just removed the PTS from my system last night, but their is one thing that is clearly apparent from 1.6 that i took away from my testing, and that is the Magicka - Stamina Divide.

Right now Stamina is superior to Magicka in damage and its not even close. Furthermore, Medium Armor will be the new "Light Armor" as it gets enough damage mitigation to be viable, while boosting the bonuses to Stamina much more then Light Armor boosts the bonuses to magicka. This will make it the defacto go to for builds based on dealing damage. The fact they made many of the Skill morphs Stamina based further expounds this point since the Magicka versions of these skills are inferior its a no brainer to go this route.

Everyone says Heavy Armor is the new top dog, but i beg to differ, Medium Armor IMO will end up being the new Light Armor onces folks really get into theory crafting builds. Medium Armor synergies too well with Stamina based abilities that now do the most damage to pass up on using it. Heavy Armor will be used primarily by tanks and 1vX builds, otherwise Medium Armor will be superior as Magicka Based damage is inferior to Stamina Based damage.

In essence ZOS has gutted Magicka Choices to give more choices to Stamina users who already had a much larger selection of non-class specific viable skills to use to begin with and cal already dodge roll, block, and attack with those skills for a significant decrease in cost compared to magic based builds.

The whole "stamina users are hindered by block" is simply a straw mans argument as Stamina builds can spam and regen stamina much easier then a magic based user can.

To top it off, Medium Armor will now:

1. Be the Top DPS set in 1.6
2. have more skill options to choose from(non weapon skills and stamina morphs of class skills)
3. comparable magic resistance to LA and Heavy
4. 200% better armor then Light Armor users
5. cheaper abilities

This is just the type of balance the game needed right? go from 1 extreme(LA) to another (MA) while telling people heavy will be better...sure.

Wahee

...and in return stamina users get sub-par healing (new skill vigor is great but a single hot won't heal through burst), no efficient use of shields (this is a huge one), and they double dip into the same pool for survivability. I would say it is an even trade.

In my experience with PvP on the PTS I'd say stamina users still maintain higher dmg and burst but at the cost of survivability and sustain. It feels like a decent balance to me. You really can't underestimate the importance of having effective damage shields vs. not having them though.

david.haypreub18_ESO

When people were rejoicing that ZOS said it was going to fix heavy armor, I was skeptical; we've heard this before. The last attempt to fix heavy was terrible, leaving the problem to remain for months. This time, they seem to be trying not really to fix it, but to rebalance it by nerfing light. That's one way of doing it... but they left medium as-is. So yeah... I'm definitely going medium for now!

I don't think they'll really achieve a balance in armors so long as you don't need to be wearing any heavy to use immovable. If they did that though...

technohic

Its finally come full circle for 1.6.

Heavy Armor is king cause it can block forever and never die

Light armor is king because of damage shields use Magicka you already are stacking for DPS

Medium armor is king because it has better DPS.


I guess its all in perspective.

Aoe_Barbecue

It's difficult to make conclusions about 1.6 from the PTS atm because so many things are broken or not working as intended. (Unless ...) I am refraining from theory crafting too hard until I feel 1.6 is in a more playable condition.

s7732425ub17_ESO

This post is spot-on.

In the current game, stamina builds already give the highest endgame DPS over magicka builds (except for maybe a certain DoT DK build, but not many players can run that). And in the PTS, stamina builds get even more of a buff while magicka builds get a nerf in damage.

Aoe_Barbecue

I am still holding on to hope that someone at ZoS isn't dumb and realizes how crappy the ulti change is.

RinaldoGandolphi

technohic wrote: »

Its finally come full circle for 1.6.

Heavy Armor is king cause it can block forever and never die

Light armor is king because of damage shields use Magicka you already are stacking for DPS

Medium armor is king because it has better DPS.


I guess its all in perspective.

Perspective? Yes and no.

the gutting magicka choices means exactly that. The fact that stamina builds already had access to a much larger selection of skills(all weapons except staffs use stamina for their abilities) on top of many class based skills having stamina morphs now means stamina users have a much much much larger variety of skills and bar combinations then the magicka user has which leads to much more build diversity and combinations.

Furthermore, The nerfs to Light Armor don't even make it the best DPS type anymore. Light Armor should be the DPS set at the cost of a significant decrease in physical damage mitigation. Instead LA has garbage damage mitigation and garbage damage potential.

Damage shields will not be a deal breaker for Meduim Armor users, as with the right build, they won't be required for survival. Who needs to mitigate damage when the bust provided by Med Armor now will result in pretty much most folks dead anyways. Burst is EVERYTHING in pvp and timing when that burst comes decides who lives and who dies, and right now on the PTS med armor users will have that burst the other types don't, when in reality wearing light armor should be a trade off of trading damage mitigation(being squishy) for doing lots of damage.

right now, Meduim Armor is what Light Armor should be + 200% better protection.

technohic

woodsro wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Its finally come full circle for 1.6.

Heavy Armor is king cause it can block forever and never die

Light armor is king because of damage shields use Magicka you already are stacking for DPS

Medium armor is king because it has better DPS.


I guess its all in perspective.

Perspective? Yes and no.

the gutting magicka choices means exactly that. The fact that stamina builds already had access to a much larger selection of skills(all weapons except staffs use stamina for their abilities) on top of many class based skills having stamina morphs now means stamina users have a much much much larger variety of skills and bar combinations then the magicka user has which leads to much more build diversity and combinations.

SO lets see. Dual wield, sword and board, bow and 2 handed to destruction staffs and resortation staff.

Stamina 4 Magicka 2.

Now how about the non weapon skills everyone has?

Heavy Armor, medium armor, Fighters guild, werewolf and assault to Light armor, soul magic, vampire, mages guild, undaunted and support

Stamina 5 Magicka 6

So now Stamina is up to 9 and Magicka is up to 8, but how many skills in each class is magicka based compared to stam now? Skews a lot further magicka in that sens as EVERY skill has a magicka morph while each class might have what for stamina morphs? 3 or 4?

Seems like a silly comparison and all this seems to do is actually give stamina at least some options that it didn't even compete with magicka options before.

woodsro wrote: »

Furthermore, The nerfs to Light Armor don't even make it the best DPS type anymore. Light Armor should be the DPS set at the cost of a significant decrease in physical damage mitigation. Instead LA has garbage damage mitigation and garbage damage potential.

What did they do to hurt magickas damage potential? I know the spell resistance loss is there, but what specifically singled out magicka DPS?

woodsro wrote: »

Damage shields will not be a deal breaker for Meduim Armor users, as with the right build, they won't be required for survival. Who needs to mitigate damage when the bust provided by Med Armor now will result in pretty much most folks dead anyways. Burst is EVERYTHING in pvp and timing when that burst comes decides who lives and who dies, and right now on the PTS med armor users will have that burst the other types don't, when in reality wearing light armor should be a trade off of trading damage mitigation(being squishy) for doing lots of damage.

Wait. So medium armors DPS is able to make up for lack of shield use but what about HPS? Are we going to pretend that doesn't help a lot? And I again do not know where they touched your burst specifically for magicka users. If you mean the increased in heavy armor users, well; that kind of affects those stamina attacks as well.

woodsro wrote: »

right now, Meduim Armor is what Light Armor should be + 200% better protection.

I'm just not seeing it. I actually see all armor types finally being viable for certain builds. At the same time, I see every armor type also being complained about. Even your "nerfed" magicka builds. Just look around. Theres a rather hot one about shield stacking right now. I bit on a couple but I think they are all equally as silly right now.

Sypher

I am also refraining from theory crafting in 1.6 until it's in a more stable/fixed position.

If it does go live in its current state... (Insert bad stuff here)

supernico

1.6 will be known as Age of the Stamina, Two-Handers and Dual Wielding, 1hko Snipes+Heavy+Light Attacks from sneak and Medium Armor. If you are DK you gonna have to tank, DPS if you're a NB, Heal as a Templar and run in the other dirrection as Sorc (all this ofcourse if you're not gonna be a 2hander crit charge or sniper).
On the other hand, if Ultimate will be built in the same manner as everyone else, why not make them all cost the same? #DONTNERFSTANDARD
We are going to miss the Before 1.6

Sharee

woodsro wrote: »

The whole "stamina users are hindered by block" is simply a straw mans argument as Stamina builds can spam and regen stamina much easier then a magic based user can.

Yeah stamina users don't have to block because they have so much stamina regen that they can spam those stamina-based damage shields till the cows come home!

... oh wait.

Warraxx

lolz, obviously the OP has never played a stamina based ESO toon... Try it out before you vomit all over the forums again. ttfn

Xsorus

Rofl...Heavy Armor is in no way king on PTS.....The only Heavy Armor user worth a damn on PTS right now is a Nightblade, simply because they have Siphoning Strikes.

You also cannot block forever on PTS, having just 2 people on you will instantly drain your stamina into nothingness.

Light armor with shields is still flat out superior to both armor sets when it comes to PvP.

Aoe_Barbecue

Medium armor Igneous Shield + Brawler tanking. Hmmm ...

I have had good results mitigating light armor squishiness by running all reinforced traits, save Warlock set head and pants, stacking three armor glyphs, and keeping Volatile Armor up at all times.

Ezareth

I'm finding my magicka drain is far less than my stamina drain compared to live. On live I have the bare minimum stamina possible and can still mana by not blocking except when absolutely necessary and saving my stamina for break free and roll dodge while performing escapes.

I haven't yet looked at all the benefits of medium armor on PTS over live but with the magicka cost reduction being apparently nerfed and spell resistance being greater in medium + Heavy than in light (/boggle) I'm finding myself looking hard at using medium armor myself.

It appears ESO discarded proven balance design theory by making small gradual changes and instead opted to make drastic ones instead.

RinaldoGandolphi

technohic wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Its finally come full circle for 1.6.

Heavy Armor is king cause it can block forever and never die

Light armor is king because of damage shields use Magicka you already are stacking for DPS

Medium armor is king because it has better DPS.


I guess its all in perspective.

Perspective? Yes and no.

the gutting magicka choices means exactly that. The fact that stamina builds already had access to a much larger selection of skills(all weapons except staffs use stamina for their abilities) on top of many class based skills having stamina morphs now means stamina users have a much much much larger variety of skills and bar combinations then the magicka user has which leads to much more build diversity and combinations.

SO lets see. Dual wield, sword and board, bow and 2 handed to destruction staffs and resortation staff.

Stamina 4 Magicka 2.

Now how about the non weapon skills everyone has?

Heavy Armor, medium armor, Fighters guild, werewolf and assault to Light armor, soul magic, vampire, mages guild, undaunted and support

Stamina 5 Magicka 6

So now Stamina is up to 9 and Magicka is up to 8, but how many skills in each class is magicka based compared to stam now? Skews a lot further magicka in that sens as EVERY skill has a magicka morph while each class might have what for stamina morphs? 3 or 4?

Seems like a silly comparison and all this seems to do is actually give stamina at least some options that it didn't even compete with magicka options before.

woodsro wrote: »

Furthermore, The nerfs to Light Armor don't even make it the best DPS type anymore. Light Armor should be the DPS set at the cost of a significant decrease in physical damage mitigation. Instead LA has garbage damage mitigation and garbage damage potential.

What did they do to hurt magickas damage potential? I know the spell resistance loss is there, but what specifically singled out magicka DPS?

woodsro wrote: »

Damage shields will not be a deal breaker for Meduim Armor users, as with the right build, they won't be required for survival. Who needs to mitigate damage when the bust provided by Med Armor now will result in pretty much most folks dead anyways. Burst is EVERYTHING in pvp and timing when that burst comes decides who lives and who dies, and right now on the PTS med armor users will have that burst the other types don't, when in reality wearing light armor should be a trade off of trading damage mitigation(being squishy) for doing lots of damage.

Wait. So medium armors DPS is able to make up for lack of shield use but what about HPS? Are we going to pretend that doesn't help a lot? And I again do not know where they touched your burst specifically for magicka users. If you mean the increased in heavy armor users, well; that kind of affects those stamina attacks as well.

woodsro wrote: »

right now, Meduim Armor is what Light Armor should be + 200% better protection.

I'm just not seeing it. I actually see all armor types finally being viable for certain builds. At the same time, I see every armor type also being complained about. Even your "nerfed" magicka builds. Just look around. Theres a rather hot one about shield stacking right now. I bit on a couple but I think they are all equally as silly right now.

Two-handed, Sword and Shield, Dual Wield, and Bow. 5 Skills per line = 20 Skills in comparison to both staffs = 10 skills.Lots more choices to roll with their.

Comparing Undaunted and Armor is really not fair as Heavy and Meduim Armor skill cost Stamina and Light Armor skill costs magic. Undaunted Skills are PVE based mostly for dungeon runs in lieu of PVP.

Furthermore, they not only nerfed The Concentration and Prodigy passives in the Light Armor Tree, they also further nerfed Sharpened Trait. Magic users were already doing less damage then before with the previous Sharpened Trait Nerf that lowered Sorc DPS 150-200 in trials/pve content, now the Light Armor passives and Sharpened was given a further nerf.

I tested Legendary Sharpened Weapon + Apprentice Stone + Maxed Light Armor and less damage gets through on PTS now then the same combination does on live(taking scaling into consideration) because they further nerfed it.

Everyone complains about shield stacking, but they don't see it from the other side of the fence. Those who stack shields are only able to do so because not only have they built specifically for it, in doing so they give up a lot of damage potential in return for survivability.

Many Sorcs had to go this route due to the nerf to Sharpened reduced our damage so much that we had no choice but to go this route in order to even stinking survive, it just so happens that building this way also allows us to spam Bolt Escape, but again, we need to in order to survive...do you really think we like having to run away? I assure you we would much rather melt faces, but our damage is so pathetic , and now further nerfed in PTS with the Light Armor Changes and the further nerf to Sharpened that our damage is not all that great yet again which makes it impossible to win a straight up fight of damage burst.

Honestly, the only saving grace i have is that Bolt Escape will be a bit better since it no longer cripples my magic regen, Shards and Entropy will help me deal some damage, but im still going to be stuck on stacking shields and BE spam in order to survive, so not a whole lot changes for me.

the only thing that changes is now i will have Immovable on my Bar and will pop it before I BOL away to prevent Shield Charge users and others from stopping me from getting away with gap closers/knockdowns/stuns...i didn't want to resort to using this cheese, and have refrained in doing so for months, but if 1.6 goes live the way it is now, then they leave me no choice, but to resort to this.

The way Light Armor is now on the PTS, being Gap closed from behind will be a death sentence, Shield Stack or not, so Immoveable becomes required cheese which im sure will make many people angry as i get tons of hate tells now, except these ones i get on 1.6 will be the kind of being accused of cheating variety because i countered their ability to stop me from BE spamming and getting away from them because of my pathetic damage mitigation that im saddled with along with a nerf to my damage output im sure not going to just stand their in range of any of their attacks.

Wahee

woodsro wrote: »

Everyone complains about shield stacking, but they don't see it from the other side of the fence. Those who stack shields are only able to do so because not only have they built specifically for it, in doing so they give up a lot of damage potential in return for survivability.

Simply not true. Have you met a 30k magicka shield stacking sorc yet? The only dps loss you take from shield stacking is the loss of skill slots, and most players only use 1-2 skills for damage anyway. The problem with shield stacking is the exact opposite of your statement, they provide huge survivability without sacrificing offensive potential.

Heavy armor sacrifices offense for defense, damage shields are in a totally different world by comparison.

RinaldoGandolphi

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

I'm finding my magicka drain is far less than my stamina drain compared to live. On live I have the bare minimum stamina possible and can still mana by not blocking except when absolutely necessary and saving my stamina for break free and roll dodge while performing escapes.

I haven't yet looked at all the benefits of medium armor on PTS over live but with the magicka cost reduction being apparently nerfed and spell resistance being greater in medium + Heavy than in light (/boggle) I'm finding myself looking hard at using medium armor myself.

It appears ESO discarded proven balance design theory by making small gradual changes and instead opted to make drastic ones instead.

Your exactly right. I am considering going Med Armor myself because as it stands right now, LA has very little benefit. What little it gives is not worth the the very bad damage mitigation and spell resistance.

The nerfs to Concentration and Prodigy don't help matters none.

it will be very easy to put together a build that will allow Shield Stacking and sustain in Medium Armor. Since Light Armor damage has been nerfed, i will be giving up very little in damage for much greater survivability. I always focused much more on survivability then raw damage output anyways, and i have most of the Med armor traits researched anyhow.

In the PTS current state, Medium Armor will be a no brainer for any damage based class especially in PVP, since Light Armor damage has been nerfed, the Stamina benefits of Med armor will allow better survivability, and most of the drawbacks of losing light armor can be remedied with various enchants, champ point distribution, and mundas stones.

RinaldoGandolphi

Wahee wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

Everyone complains about shield stacking, but they don't see it from the other side of the fence. Those who stack shields are only able to do so because not only have they built specifically for it, in doing so they give up a lot of damage potential in return for survivability.

Simply not true. Have you met a 30k magicka shield stacking sorc yet? The only dps loss you take from shield stacking is the loss of skill slots, and most players only use 1-2 skills for damage anyway. The problem with shield stacking is the exact opposite of your statement, they provide huge survivability without sacrificing offensive potential.

Heavy armor sacrifices offense for defense, damage shields are in a totally different world by comparison.

Yes, and neither of us were able to kill one another, eventually i just BOL out and he didn't follow...i think he was sick of it too. Since Sorc damage is still not that great, neither one of us was able to do enough damage to kill one another. The loss of skill slots is a loss in itself. Can't use offensive skills in those slots.

Well TES has been known for Sheild spells, Stone Flesh, Iron Flesh, Ebony Flesh, etc...they have been a staple and allowed Sorcs to survive since they wear very little armor.

As i said though, im strongly considering switching to Med armor...Light Armor just don't have enough benefits now with the nerfs to warrant using it over Med Armor when it will be trival to make up the differences elsewhere while gaining a lot more survivability.

Wahee

woodsro wrote: »

Wahee wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

Everyone complains about shield stacking, but they don't see it from the other side of the fence. Those who stack shields are only able to do so because not only have they built specifically for it, in doing so they give up a lot of damage potential in return for survivability.

Simply not true. Have you met a 30k magicka shield stacking sorc yet? The only dps loss you take from shield stacking is the loss of skill slots, and most players only use 1-2 skills for damage anyway. The problem with shield stacking is the exact opposite of your statement, they provide huge survivability without sacrificing offensive potential.

Heavy armor sacrifices offense for defense, damage shields are in a totally different world by comparison.

Yes, and neither of us were able to kill one another, eventually i just BOL out and he didn't follow...i think he was sick of it too. Since Sorc damage is still not that great, neither one of us was able to do enough damage to kill one another. The loss of skill slots is a loss in itself. Can't use offensive skills in those slots.

Well TES has been known for Sheild spells, Stone Flesh, Iron Flesh, Ebony Flesh, etc...they have been a staple and allowed Sorcs to survive since they wear very little armor.

As i said though, im strongly considering switching to Med armor...Light Armor just don't have enough benefits now with the nerfs to warrant using it over Med Armor when it will be trival to make up the differences elsewhere while gaining a lot more survivability.

Were you by chance also shield stacking? Sounds like you effectively canceled each other out. Trying playing another class/build against that setup, especially a stam build.

I personally think it is great that medium and heavy armor are getting some love after all this time. The fact that players are considering anything other than light armor is a great step foreword. It is possible that light armor might be underperforming, but I think that might take some more testing and time to establish. It is very hard to get a grasp on balance now when PTS players have so few CP's.

I think that rather than light armor underperforming we are seeing medium and heavy perform better for the first time and people aren't used to it.

Dazin93

woodsro wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

it will be very easy to put together a build that will allow Shield Stacking and sustain in Medium Armor.

^^This. Those saying stamina builds sacrifice survivability and sustain haven't tried playing a stamina dk. Being that their shield scales from health it's easy to keep a strong shield/GDB up constantly not only healing you but improving stamina sustain rate. If 1.6 stays as is, I will bet that dk's will be just as dominant, if not more on live, but as stamina builds instead of magicka.

RinaldoGandolphi

Wahee wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

Wahee wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

Everyone complains about shield stacking, but they don't see it from the other side of the fence. Those who stack shields are only able to do so because not only have they built specifically for it, in doing so they give up a lot of damage potential in return for survivability.

Simply not true. Have you met a 30k magicka shield stacking sorc yet? The only dps loss you take from shield stacking is the loss of skill slots, and most players only use 1-2 skills for damage anyway. The problem with shield stacking is the exact opposite of your statement, they provide huge survivability without sacrificing offensive potential.

Heavy armor sacrifices offense for defense, damage shields are in a totally different world by comparison.

Yes, and neither of us were able to kill one another, eventually i just BOL out and he didn't follow...i think he was sick of it too. Since Sorc damage is still not that great, neither one of us was able to do enough damage to kill one another. The loss of skill slots is a loss in itself. Can't use offensive skills in those slots.

Well TES has been known for Sheild spells, Stone Flesh, Iron Flesh, Ebony Flesh, etc...they have been a staple and allowed Sorcs to survive since they wear very little armor.

As i said though, im strongly considering switching to Med armor...Light Armor just don't have enough benefits now with the nerfs to warrant using it over Med Armor when it will be trival to make up the differences elsewhere while gaining a lot more survivability.

Were you by chance also shield stacking? Sounds like you effectively canceled each other out. Trying playing another class/build against that setup, especially a stam build.

I personally think it is great that medium and heavy armor are getting some love after all this time. The fact that players are considering anything other than light armor is a great step foreword. It is possible that light armor might be underperforming, but I think that might take some more testing and time to establish. It is very hard to get a grasp on balance now when PTS players have so few CP's.

I think that rather than light armor underperforming we are seeing medium and heavy perform better for the first time and people aren't used to it.

Yes i was Shield Stacking. I shield stack out of necessity. After the constant nerfs to Sorcs (BE, Harness, Sharpened, Volatile Familiar, etc) I was forced to go Shield Stacking and BE spam in order to survive due to the Sorcs poor damage as it currently is on live.

I had to give up a lot in order to do this though, I will say damage sheilds are effective on PTS, and if Light Armor is going to stay the way it is, then Sheilds will be the only reason i keep it if i decide to.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Seriously complaining about stamina builds? You know how long we have waited to be relevant? Get real......... Its Not OP its just that we can challenge you now and you have to adapt to that fact! No more lurking in the shadows waiting for an easy 1 shot kill or someone low health, were coming for you now and you better learn to stop us!

Aoe_Barbecue

I'd rather medium/stamina builds have been brought up to par with magicka builds, as opposed to medium/stamina circumstantial and direct buffs paired off with circumstantial and direct light armor/magicka nerfs. It just tilts the scale in the other direction, and players who want to play optimally will do whatever is necessary. I have a pretty gangster medium armor/two-hander build in mind for team play assuming 1.6 goes live as it is. (Let's hope that it doesn't lol.) I would prefer that the choice between medium/stamina and light/magicka not also be a choice between overall effectiveness and ineffectiveness.

The medium armor people that are now having their day in the sun are part of the perpetual "buff me, nerf them" mentality. Perhaps their desire to be MMO hipsters will push them towards magicka builds, should the light/magicka meta be broken? Lol

RinaldoGandolphi

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Seriously complaining about stamina builds? You know how long we have waited to be relevant? Get real......... Its Not OP its just that we can challenge you now and you have to adapt to that fact! No more lurking in the shadows waiting for an easy 1 shot kill or someone low health, were coming for you now and you better learn to stop us!

You have been relevent for quite awhile. Magic based Sorcs(such as myself) have the lowest damage and lowest DPS in the entire game.

Lurk in the Shadows? I have no attacks that get a crit bonus from stealth, unlike say...Lethal Arrow. I only stealth in known ambush locations where i know gankers are obviously going to hide so i get the jump on them in most cases.

I have no abilities to 1 shot kill anyone, or to even come close....Stamina NB have been a very close second in DPS for awhile now, a guildie of mine, can pull well over 1300-1400 DPS with a pure Stamina Nightblade, im lucky to maintain 925-935 under perfect conditions with a Magic Sorc...more like 825-850 is par for the course with lots of moving around. You don't see a discrepancy there?

Stamina builds have been relevant for quite sometime. You have the best burst damage in the game by far, and the best sustain DPS outside of specific DOT DK builds whom your neck and neck with.

Magic Sorcs already had low DPS, and now it will be about the same as it is now...the increased damage and buff to skills like Shards, etc will be offset with the nerfs to Light armor passives Prodigy, Concentration, and Further Nerf to Sharpened traint and Spell Penetration, not to mention the nerf to Magic Spell Cost Reductions as Ezareth mentioned.

So Stamina builds not only have more damage, but Stamina based builds also get cheaper abilities as their cost reductions and damage are not actually nerfed.

RinaldoGandolphi

Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »

I'd rather medium/stamina builds have been brought up to par with magicka builds, as opposed to medium/stamina circumstantial and direct buffs paired off with circumstantial and direct light armor/magicka nerfs. It just tilts the scale in the other direction, and players who want to play optimally will do whatever is necessary. I have a pretty gangster medium armor/two-hander build in mind for team play assuming 1.6 goes live as it is. (Let's hope that it doesn't lol.) I would prefer that the choice between medium/stamina and light/magicka not also be a choice between overall effectiveness.

The medium armor people that are now having their day in the sun are part of the perpetual "buff me, nerf them" mentality. Perhaps their desire to be MMO hipsters will push them towards magicka builds, should the light/magicka meta be broken? Lol

I agree BBQ, you hit the nail right on the head here. they are just nerfing one side of the coin(magic) for the other side of the coin(Stamina), going from one extreme to the other instead of actually trying to balance the two out. A lot of this though i contribute to them trying to make Heavy Armor viable, but they did that by simply Nerfing Light and leaving Meduim pretty much as is...Light got Nerfed hard....

Being as hard headed as i am though, i'll probably stick with Light Armor and figure out a way to make it work...i get joy out of winning when the odds are stacked against me, and im not using the FOTM build, and the clearly best combinations and still win....that is something worth smiling about.

WRX

HA is still pretty strong for magicka builds. Comparatively I actually have more magicka sustain on the PTS than I do on live in LA.

The big thing right now with stamina damage is there is now a difference in how SR and Armor mitigate.

Xsorus

woodsro wrote: »

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Seriously complaining about stamina builds? You know how long we have waited to be relevant? Get real......... Its Not OP its just that we can challenge you now and you have to adapt to that fact! No more lurking in the shadows waiting for an easy 1 shot kill or someone low health, were coming for you now and you better learn to stop us!

You have been relevent for quite awhile. Magic based Sorcs(such as myself) have the lowest damage and lowest DPS in the entire game.

Lurk in the Shadows? I have no attacks that get a crit bonus from stealth, unlike say...Lethal Arrow. I only stealth in known ambush locations where i know gankers are obviously going to hide so i get the jump on them in most cases.

I have no abilities to 1 shot kill anyone, or to even come close....Stamina NB have been a very close second in DPS for awhile now, a guildie of mine, can pull well over 1300-1400 DPS with a pure Stamina Nightblade, im lucky to maintain 925-935 under perfect conditions with a Magic Sorc...more like 825-850 is par for the course with lots of moving around. You don't see a discrepancy there?

Stamina builds have been relevant for quite sometime. You have the best burst damage in the game by far, and the best sustain DPS outside of specific DOT DK builds whom your neck and neck with.

Magic Sorcs already had low DPS, and now it will be about the same as it is now...the increased damage and buff to skills like Shards, etc will be offset with the nerfs to Light armor passives Prodigy, Concentration, and Further Nerf to Sharpened traint and Spell Penetration, not to mention the nerf to Magic Spell Cost Reductions as Ezareth mentioned.

So Stamina builds not only have more damage, but Stamina based builds also get cheaper abilities as their cost reductions and damage are not actually nerfed.

Are you missing your hands or something in real life? Because that's the only possible reason you could have low dps on PTS as a sorc.

They're the best class currently, by far....

Poxheart

It said it before in another thread, but I guess it needs repeating: if 1.6 goes live as is, then the game should be renamed Elder Sorcerers Online because they will be top dog in PvP.

RinaldoGandolphi

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Seriously complaining about stamina builds? You know how long we have waited to be relevant? Get real......... Its Not OP its just that we can challenge you now and you have to adapt to that fact! No more lurking in the shadows waiting for an easy 1 shot kill or someone low health, were coming for you now and you better learn to stop us!

You have been relevent for quite awhile. Magic based Sorcs(such as myself) have the lowest damage and lowest DPS in the entire game.

Lurk in the Shadows? I have no attacks that get a crit bonus from stealth, unlike say...Lethal Arrow. I only stealth in known ambush locations where i know gankers are obviously going to hide so i get the jump on them in most cases.

I have no abilities to 1 shot kill anyone, or to even come close....Stamina NB have been a very close second in DPS for awhile now, a guildie of mine, can pull well over 1300-1400 DPS with a pure Stamina Nightblade, im lucky to maintain 925-935 under perfect conditions with a Magic Sorc...more like 825-850 is par for the course with lots of moving around. You don't see a discrepancy there?

Stamina builds have been relevant for quite sometime. You have the best burst damage in the game by far, and the best sustain DPS outside of specific DOT DK builds whom your neck and neck with.

Magic Sorcs already had low DPS, and now it will be about the same as it is now...the increased damage and buff to skills like Shards, etc will be offset with the nerfs to Light armor passives Prodigy, Concentration, and Further Nerf to Sharpened traint and Spell Penetration, not to mention the nerf to Magic Spell Cost Reductions as Ezareth mentioned.

So Stamina builds not only have more damage, but Stamina based builds also get cheaper abilities as their cost reductions and damage are not actually nerfed.

Are you missing your hands or something in real life? Because that's the only possible reason you could have low dps on PTS as a sorc.

They're the best class currently, by far....

Haha no. Granted I never messed much with dos on pts, pvp is more about burst and resource management then dps imo, but I have my own playstyle.

Besides, its still early, but from my general observations I feel stamina and med armor will end up being the best for damage over the long term. We will see if I'm wrong, but a lot could change between now and the though I will concede.