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Oblivion online! No one is talking about scaling
Lord Xanhorn
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So one of the more important things I got from the ESO live was the content will scale to your level. Does that mean that it will basically be Oblivion where everything you fight will always be your level? This kinda sucks and take away any feeling of growth or progression you get from your character.
Hows this even gonna work in an MMO with other people with other levels are all in the same area? Will everything be instanced to just me? Sounds like the DLC is basically going to be Oblivion Online.
Hows this even gonna work in an MMO with other people with other levels are all in the same area? Will everything be instanced to just me? Sounds like the DLC is basically going to be Oblivion Online.
I'm kind of a small deal!
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Lykurgis✭✭✭ya, it's being talked about.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1499553/#Comment_1499553
We Kill Bosses (NA Server, AD)
The Purple Guild (NA Server, AD)
world first naked AA run -
Lord Xanhorn✭✭✭✭So thousands of comments about B2P and 5 comments about scaling and scaling is being talked about sufficiently?I'm kind of a small deal!
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AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
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Scaling has been in the game for months, it's been covered, repeatedly, nothing more to say really.Lord Xanhorn wrote: »So thousands of comments about B2P and 5 comments about scaling and scaling is being talked about sufficiently?People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule -
Amsel_McKay✭✭✭✭✭What's wrong with scaling? I had all kinds of fun playing oblivion... I haven't played oblivion or skyrim since ESO came out because it's just like those gamesonlybigger and better.
I hate scaling nothing is easy and nothing is hard... its always just right... I play MMOs and advance ahead so its hard if I cant then what is the point? I just did all the main story line at VR1 hoping it would be hard at VR1... nopeEdited by Amsel_McKay on January 23, 2015 8:37PM -
Iago✭✭✭✭✭their current scaling system for dungeons scales the dungeon to my level and the mechanic doesn't work right half the time so now they want to break the system even more by trying to schedule me to the area I'm in my swords will still do a hundred and forty four Damaja whack so how does that even work again something that has 97 hit points in glenumbra or steps mkai ?That which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.
-Thomas Pain -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If scaling remains as it is now in PVP, it pretty only refers to stats. You'll be given enough stats to survive without being oneshot by everything you run into, but a properly leveled and geared player will still go through the content more smoothly.
This isn't like GW2 where you get scaled down. As far as I can tell, there will only be scaling up.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired) -
Iago✭✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »If scaling remains as it is now in PVP, it pretty only refers to stats. You'll be given enough stats to survive without being oneshot by everything you run into, but a properly leveled and geared player will still go through the content more smoothly.
This isn't like GW2 where you get scaled down. As far as I can tell, there will only be scaling up.
I hope you're right because them saying they're going to scale the characters to the content is worrisome. as it is the content doesn't scale to my character properly and if they can't make that happen right how are they going to scale my character to the content?That which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.
-Thomas Pain -
Iago✭✭✭✭✭But I want down scaling as well to play with my bro when he decides to jump back in after his account turns into f2p.
it's not the scaling that bothers me what bothers me is the dungeon scaling is broken now so why would I assume that they're going to get this one right either?That which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.
-Thomas Pain -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Level scaling is old news. What this game REALLY needs is for dungeons and other instanced content to be scaled to the GROUP SIZE of the party, not just the level. Solo/duo players are sick of being locked out of high end content!#CAREBEARMASTERRACE -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sounded like they were scaling the player to the content, maybe just the same thing tho.
Yeah, that was in the AUA.Co-Host of The Tenets: a podcast focused on bringing new players up to speed in ESO. -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What's wrong with scaling? I had all kinds of fun playing oblivion... I haven't played oblivion or skyrim since ESO came out because it's just like those gamesonlybigger and better.
Oblivion's scaling was heavyhanded and easy to game. It led to some really weird idiosyncrasies, and in most cases, a game that felt like a treadmill, you never got anywhere, you just kept progressing.
Scaling itself isn't bad, it's just Oblivion gave the mechanic a bad name.Co-Host of The Tenets: a podcast focused on bringing new players up to speed in ESO. -
Jaerlach✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »What's wrong with scaling? I had all kinds of fun playing oblivion... I haven't played oblivion or skyrim since ESO came out because it's just like those gamesonlybigger and better.
Oblivion's scaling was heavyhanded and easy to game. It led to some really weird idiosyncrasies, and in most cases, a game that felt like a treadmill, you never got anywhere, you just kept progressing.
Scaling itself isn't bad, it's just Oblivion gave the mechanic a bad name.
Oblivion actually got easier as you leveled up if you powergamed your character, as you would gain more skill points and get 5/5/5 stat points per level, whereas the leveled mobs would not progress that rapidly. I always found levels 1-3 to be the hardest part of Oblivion because the mobs actually had competitive stats to you.
Of course, one of the most efficient strategies in Oblivion was to never sleep and therefore never level - the game was exceptionally easy as a level 1 character with their skills at 75-100.
In order to be challenged with either approach, you had to ramp up the difficulty slider pretty massively.
ESO doesn't have those problems and scaling up and down isn't that big a deal. A lot of the dungeon scaling issues have been resolved and there are no longer issues with Imiril or Rilis being overscaled at v12.Jaerlach Kesepton (DK)
The 7th Vanguard
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olemanwinter✭✭✭✭✭What's wrong with scaling?
Glad you asked.
Scaling is perfectly fine if you are an entirely AVERAGE player.
It's bad because it scales to your level. It does not scale to your SKILL LEVEL.
So if you are a good player the game will always be silly easy forever. If you are a poor player you can never level up and come back later because the content will keep pace with you.
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AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭starkerealm wrote: »What's wrong with scaling? I had all kinds of fun playing oblivion... I haven't played oblivion or skyrim since ESO came out because it's just like those gamesonlybigger and better.
Oblivion's scaling was heavyhanded and easy to game. It led to some really weird idiosyncrasies, and in most cases, a game that felt like a treadmill, you never got anywhere, you just kept progressing.
Scaling itself isn't bad, it's just Oblivion gave the mechanic a bad name.
Oblivion actually got easier as you leveled up if you powergamed your character, as you would gain more skill points and get 5/5/5 stat points per level, whereas the leveled mobs would not progress that rapidly. I always found levels 1-3 to be the hardest part of Oblivion because the mobs actually had competitive stats to you.
Of course, one of the most efficient strategies in Oblivion was to never sleep and therefore never level - the game was exceptionally easy as a level 1 character with their skills at 75-100.
In order to be challenged with either approach, you had to ramp up the difficulty slider pretty massively.
ESO doesn't have those problems and scaling up and down isn't that big a deal. A lot of the dungeon scaling issues have been resolved and there are no longer issues with Imiril or Rilis being overscaled at v12.
Oblivion was heavyhanded with the scaling, and the main problem was that if you didn't finish the main quest while low level, it got ridiculous in the Mehrunes Dagon in front of the Temple bit.
After that the scaling was generally on your side, but a few fights were easier at low levels (like the goblins at the farm, higher levels the brothers nearly always died, along with the reward).
But it was always heavyhanded, it was either heavily for you or heavily against you, no subtlety in the difficulty.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I DON'T like scaling only because they did it to the Main Story and Guild quests. I am an altoholic you see. And there is no way on earth I want to suffer every excruciating minute of those quests again. Once was fine thank you. My intention was to over level them and then speed through them. But noooo! Heavens forbid I should be able to play the way I want to!
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates! -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I shared my opinion on this over at mmorpg.com.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/426583/page/4To be honest, removing levels is just another way of dumbing down a game.
Levels are required (much like attributes, which were omitted from the game) to provide the character progression more depth & something to look forward to as a player.
Gating content is good, because it gives the world a sense of danger & gives you as a player something to look forward to.
How many times did you wander to the wrong cave in Morrowind, only to be chased by a high level monster? That was fun, it made you think "hey, I'm coming back & I'll kick your ass", instead of "zzz... just another faceroll dungeon".
In fact, I would've liked to see much more of it in ESO (e.g. areas of higher level enemies in lower level zones & quests sending you there later on, or raids located in say, Stormhaven etc).
Removing levels removes just another layer of depth from the game, making it feel more like a hack&slash action game than a RPG.
Was nothing learned from Oblivion & Skyrim?
Just my thoughts.Edited by DDuke on January 25, 2015 1:13PM -
Bloodfang✭✭✭✭✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »What's wrong with scaling? I had all kinds of fun playing oblivion... I haven't played oblivion or skyrim since ESO came out because it's just like those gamesonlybigger and better.
I hate scaling nothing is easy and nothing is hard... its always just right... I play MMOs and advance ahead so its hard if I cant then what is the point? I just did all the main story line at VR1 hoping it would be hard at VR1... nope
If you are always overleveling than it would be harder for you if they introduce such scaling. -
Tomg999✭✭✭✭I hate scaling for solo PVE. I love having different "balanced" areas to choose from, depending on my mood or what "just right" is for me. I especially enjoy going to an area that is one or even two areas above my level and creepng around, trying to get a few skyshards or discover wayshrines. I certainly hope they don't take that away.Edited by Tomg999 on January 25, 2015 2:35PM
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kimboh✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »If scaling remains as it is now in PVP, it pretty only refers to stats. You'll be given enough stats to survive without being oneshot by everything you run into, but a properly leveled and geared player will still go through the content more smoothly.
This isn't like GW2 where you get scaled down. As far as I can tell, there will only be scaling up.
The only way I can see justice PvP being introduced is with player level scaling to the zone they are in, up and down.Status: offline<l Cygnus X|VR14|Sorc l><| Romulus Prime|VR12|Temp |><| Qwoptus |lvl30|DK|><| DC|EU |> -
Ahdora✭✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »If scaling remains as it is now in PVP, it pretty only refers to stats. You'll be given enough stats to survive without being oneshot by everything you run into, but a properly leveled and geared player will still go through the content more smoothly.
This isn't like GW2 where you get scaled down. As far as I can tell, there will only be scaling up.
The only way I can see justice PvP being introduced is with player level scaling to the zone they are in, up and down.
It doesn't look like the PvP part of the JS is even going to make it into the game now, anyway.Heals With Stick, V11 Argonian Nightblade Healer, NA-EP -
kimboh✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »If scaling remains as it is now in PVP, it pretty only refers to stats. You'll be given enough stats to survive without being oneshot by everything you run into, but a properly leveled and geared player will still go through the content more smoothly.
This isn't like GW2 where you get scaled down. As far as I can tell, there will only be scaling up.
The only way I can see justice PvP being introduced is with player level scaling to the zone they are in, up and down.
It doesn't look like the PvP part of the JS is even going to make it into the game now, anyway.
Agree, makes me wonder why they announced to whole Enforcer system in the first place.
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Dave2836✭✭✭olemanwinter wrote: »What's wrong with scaling?
Glad you asked.
Scaling is perfectly fine if you are an entirely AVERAGE player.
It's bad because it scales to your level. It does not scale to your SKILL LEVEL.
So if you are a good player the game will always be silly easy forever. If you are a poor player you can never level up and come back later because the content will keep pace with you.
At that point a good player will find the opportunity to attemp different skilled builds for fun. A poor player will eventually get better through trial and error. If that fails, there is always grouping and learning tactics.
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Lord Xanhorn✭✭✭✭At that point a good player will find the opportunity to attemp different skilled builds for fun. A poor player will eventually get better through trial and error. If that fails, there is always grouping and learning tactics.
Oh that sounds like great marketing. 'Come play our game where if you are really good, you can just keep trying different builds while you demolish the same crap easy content.'
I'm kind of a small deal! -
Dave2836✭✭✭Lord Xanhorn wrote: »At that point a good player will find the opportunity to attemp different skilled builds for fun. A poor player will eventually get better through trial and error. If that fails, there is always grouping and learning tactics.
Oh that sounds like great marketing. 'Come play our game where if you are really good, you can just keep trying different builds while you demolish the same crap easy content.'
Its pretty lonely at the top. why not gimp yourself and play a pacifist. Light armor, offhand shield, no weapon, and only the fighter's guild skills? The unarmed combat animations are pretty slick.
