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The Markarth DLC and Update 28 base game patch are now available to test on the PTS! Read the full patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts/
Paid Beta is over now....can we please have a refund?
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eisberg✭✭✭Scarletblaze wrote: »Without our consent, we all paid a subscription for a Beta quality game. Please refund our money for the past year. You failed to fully inform the public of your intentions and you failed to deliver on your promises.
Full refund is the very least you guys could do.
How do you know they always intended on going to B2P model? What proof do you have? Perhaps they felt like they had something else different, something that they thought would be successful as a subscription model instead of the B2P model, and in the end that failed for them.
Also, why were you paying to play the game if you felt like it was Beta Quality? Obviously you felt like it was Beta Quality this whole time, and you were willing to still pay the monthly fee. So nothing was done without your consent.
It is not reasonable to expect them to return all that subscription money back to the players.
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Forestd16b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭jasonquigley646_ESO wrote: »The butthurt is REAL!!! Demanding a full refund....thats cute! Whats next...class action lawsuit? Tell you what, you press charges on the hooded mysterious game developer that tied you up, dragged you to your game store, forced you to pay the cashier for the game, then forced you to put your credit card number into their database, and then checked up on you every month with a weapon pointed at you and made sure you stayed subscribed for the entire year. Show me proof of that person behind bars and I'll freakin pay you pathetic sub fee if you promise to never again taint any MMO with your presence for the rest of your life. #chumpchange
He has a point cause if i recall we all checked that little box that says we agreed to ZoS no matter what they do. That's what the little box does it allows the makers of the game to you know make changes to there game whether you like it or not cause well... it is there game not yours. So don't start flooding the forums about refunds and all that games rate M for mature players and asking for refunds makes you sound like children. -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭corpse_run wrote: »corpse_run wrote: »The amount of entitlement in today's society amazes me. They made a business decision to change payment model. That is their right and it entitles you to nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch.
The original 'contract' (it is not really a contract but that is a good word for it) between you (the player) and Zenimax was that they would provide the game, occasional updates and access to the servers for the price of the initial game purchase and $15 a month. They did exactly that. That is all they need to do.
They are now changing the business model for the future. That has no effect at all on prior subscriptions. Those have all been fulfilled and they provided exactly what they said they were going to provide.
Your choice is now whether to continue playing or not. They have no further commitment to you unless you do. Quit being entitled pricks.
Are you really calling people "entitled pricks", while defending B2P model & cash shop?
What would you call those people who want to play a game, but not pay a dime for future updates (other people will have to do that for them)? Or the credit card warriors that think they deserve extra stuff because they can come up with $$$?
Hypocrisy is strong in this thread
I would call the people who want to play the game but don't want to pay a dime for future updates [email protected]#t out of luck. Not going to happen, whether it is B2P or sub, you have to pay.
The so-called 'credit card warriors' are also entitled pricks but it also looks like they are [email protected]#t out of luck because, at the moment, it doesn't look like its going to be P2W. I am fine with fluff items in the cash shop, potions that are not as good as the ones crafters make in the cash shop and similar items.
If they decide to go P2W, I am out but that is my decision and does not entitle me to anything. I am not an entitled prick that way.
What do you think will happen to cash shop or content update frequency, once box sales start falling (happens to every single aging game)? Just a question Edited by DDuke on January 21, 2015 10:43PM -
corpse_run✭✭✭corpse_run wrote: »corpse_run wrote: »The amount of entitlement in today's society amazes me. They made a business decision to change payment model. That is their right and it entitles you to nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch.
The original 'contract' (it is not really a contract but that is a good word for it) between you (the player) and Zenimax was that they would provide the game, occasional updates and access to the servers for the price of the initial game purchase and $15 a month. They did exactly that. That is all they need to do.
They are now changing the business model for the future. That has no effect at all on prior subscriptions. Those have all been fulfilled and they provided exactly what they said they were going to provide.
Your choice is now whether to continue playing or not. They have no further commitment to you unless you do. Quit being entitled pricks.
Are you really calling people "entitled pricks", while defending B2P model & cash shop?
What would you call those people who want to play a game, but not pay a dime for future updates (other people will have to do that for them)? Or the credit card warriors that think they deserve extra stuff because they can come up with $$$?
Hypocrisy is strong in this thread
I would call the people who want to play the game but don't want to pay a dime for future updates [email protected]#t out of luck. Not going to happen, whether it is B2P or sub, you have to pay.
The so-called 'credit card warriors' are also entitled pricks but it also looks like they are [email protected]#t out of luck because, at the moment, it doesn't look like its going to be P2W. I am fine with fluff items in the cash shop, potions that are not as good as the ones crafters make in the cash shop and similar items.
If they decide to go P2W, I am out but that is my decision and does not entitle me to anything. I am not an entitled prick that way.
What do you think will happen to cash shop or content update frequency, once box sales start falling (happens to every single aging game)? Just a question
We will find out. That doesn't concern me right now. If it changes, I will leave. If it doesn't, I will stay. But, no matter which way it goes, it does not entitle me to anything. ZOS fulfilled their end of the deal for the time I was subbed. If I don't like the changes, I will make it known by leaving the game. But they don't owe me anything but providing me whatever was promised by my sub. They have done that. They are changing the business model but that has no effect on my current sub or what they did in the past. I am entitled to nothing more.
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B_lov3d✭✭So let me make sure I get this. You believed the game was beta quality. You paid the subscription. Now they are offering a no sub higher content game with what looks like some really fun new places/aspects down the road and that's the line in the sand for you?
Just think of it this way. Nothing is changing. You pay your sub same as always. Eso is still giving you all the content you wanted to get. But now your getting an allowance and shiny objects to spend it on for free. No chores. O_O
Will there maybe be some turds, sure. But there's already some turds so at least we will also get some new people to keep the game interesting. Hopefully.My horse can fall off a cliff and then race to the other side of Cyrodil with his mangled legs.....but he cannot defeat the face of a mudcrab, a small rock, and occasionally has problems with stairs. -_- -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭So let me make sure I get this. You believed the game was beta quality. You paid the subscription. Now they are offering a no sub higher content game with what looks like some really fun new places/aspects down the road and that's the line in the sand for you?
Just think of it this way. Nothing is changing. You pay your sub same as always. Eso is still giving you all the content you wanted to get. But now your getting an allowance and shiny objects to spend it on for free. No chores. O_O
Will there maybe be some turds, sure. But there's already some turds so at least we will also get some new people to keep the game interesting. Hopefully.
I wish I had your naivety... That would make life seem so simple and save me from many grey hair
They are not offering a "higher content game", they are offering a game with even less content updates (as is with every B2P game), just wait and see (I tend to be right about things).
Second, the interesting places they showed? Those were made by our subscriptions, and apparently left unreleased to nickle & dime them later as purchasable DLC.
Disgusting, almost like "Day 1 DLC".
I'm willing to wager Imperial City was ready half a year ago, but they didn't want to release it to reap maximum financial benefit after going B2P.
Utterly disgusting.
Third, you are not getting shiny objects for "free", be prepared to pay for anything from costumes to gear boxes/boosters (it will get more & more obtrusive as box sales fall), that are not included with the "subcription".
And lastly, the game had perfectly healthy population without those toxic freeloaders that thought the game wasn't "good enough" to warrant a subscription. In fact, according to many indicators the game had record populations since last summer just the past weeks.Edited by DDuke on January 21, 2015 11:07PM -
corpse_run✭✭✭So let me make sure I get this. You believed the game was beta quality. You paid the subscription. Now they are offering a no sub higher content game with what looks like some really fun new places/aspects down the road and that's the line in the sand for you?
Just think of it this way. Nothing is changing. You pay your sub same as always. Eso is still giving you all the content you wanted to get. But now your getting an allowance and shiny objects to spend it on for free. No chores. O_O
Will there maybe be some turds, sure. But there's already some turds so at least we will also get some new people to keep the game interesting. Hopefully.
I wish I had your naivety... That would make life seem so simple and save me from many grey hair
They are not offering a "higher content game", they are offering a game with even less content updates (as is with every B2P game), just wait and see (I tend to be right about things).
Second, the interesting places they showed? Those were made by our subscriptions, and apparently left unreleased to nickle & dime them later as purchasable DLC.
Disgusting, almost like "Day 1 DLC".
I'm willing to wager Imperial City was ready half a year ago, but they didn't want to release it to reap maximum financial benefit after going B2P.
Utterly disgusting.
And lastly, you are not getting shiny objects for "free", be prepared to pay for anything from costumes to gear boxes/boosters (it will get more & more obtrusive as box sales fall), that are not included with the "subcription".
DLC is included with the subscription. If you sub, you do not pay extra for the DLC. If they change this I, and many others, will leave. But they are pretty clear that DLC is included with the sub.
Again, I have no problems with the cash shop as it stands currently. If they change it and add P2W stuff, I will leave. But it is not sounding P2W thus far.
Really, I am just thankful that it is B2P and not F2P. F2P is horrible because the cash shop is normally even more intrusive. Also, F2P ends up allowing a bunch of *** to create accounts and troll in-game with no intention of staying or contributing to the community. B2P puts a barrier on that.
Would I have rather it stayed as sub? Yeah, probably but the topic of this thread is not whether B2P, F2P or sub is better. The topic of this thread is whether or not we are entitled to refunds and we are not. Not by any stretch of the imagination.
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Heishi✭✭✭✭✭Oh I love these. Let me help out here:
https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/eula
https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service
I had all kinds of long winded sections pulled out... but eh.And so did many brave men, women, and beast fall to the end of Beta, never to be heard from again. All that is left, is whispers of the adventures they had. -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭corpse_run wrote: »So let me make sure I get this. You believed the game was beta quality. You paid the subscription. Now they are offering a no sub higher content game with what looks like some really fun new places/aspects down the road and that's the line in the sand for you?
Just think of it this way. Nothing is changing. You pay your sub same as always. Eso is still giving you all the content you wanted to get. But now your getting an allowance and shiny objects to spend it on for free. No chores. O_O
Will there maybe be some turds, sure. But there's already some turds so at least we will also get some new people to keep the game interesting. Hopefully.
I wish I had your naivety... That would make life seem so simple and save me from many grey hair
They are not offering a "higher content game", they are offering a game with even less content updates (as is with every B2P game), just wait and see (I tend to be right about things).
Second, the interesting places they showed? Those were made by our subscriptions, and apparently left unreleased to nickle & dime them later as purchasable DLC.
Disgusting, almost like "Day 1 DLC".
I'm willing to wager Imperial City was ready half a year ago, but they didn't want to release it to reap maximum financial benefit after going B2P.
Utterly disgusting.
And lastly, you are not getting shiny objects for "free", be prepared to pay for anything from costumes to gear boxes/boosters (it will get more & more obtrusive as box sales fall), that are not included with the "subcription".
DLC is included with the subscription. If you sub, you do not pay extra for the DLC. If they change this I, and many others, will leave. But they are pretty clear that DLC is included with the sub.
Again, I have no problems with the cash shop as it stands currently. If they change it and add P2W stuff, I will leave. But it is not sounding P2W thus far.
Really, I am just thankful that it is B2P and not F2P. F2P is horrible because the cash shop is normally even more intrusive. Also, F2P ends up allowing a bunch of *** to create accounts and troll in-game with no intention of staying or contributing to the community. B2P puts a barrier on that.
Would I have rather it stayed as sub? Yeah, probably but the topic of this thread is not whether B2P, F2P or sub is better. The topic of this thread is whether or not we are entitled to refunds and we are not. Not by any stretch of the imagination.
Yeah... you are right, they are not legally (morals are another thing, but companies like Zenimax don't care about them) obliged to refund anyone.
This is just the best topic for me to post in, given they closed my "Boycott Zenimax Media Inc" thread -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭So you went to watch a movie in the theater and now that some time later it's on tv for free you want the movie theater to give you your money back? Right, good luck with that.
How about going into a movie theater to see an exclusive movie that was promised never to be shown on TV, which gets shown on TV anyhow?
I'm sure people have got refunds for that kind of incidents, but yeah... ZOS isn't legally obliged to refund anyone and thus probably won't.
Still, atleast try to get your analogies right. -
Elridge✭✭✭Scarletblaze wrote: »I would appreciate it if ZoS would respond to this simple request.
They already have if you watched the stream, and they said no, for good reason. People played it for months, everyone had the option to opt out of it at any time after and stopped paying. If people payed for nearly a year, for a game they didn't enjoy, that is entirely their fault.Analogy time:
An fund promises you a safe, long term investment. You take the offer and keep steadily depositing money in it.
Suddenly, the fund goes back on its promise & makes some high risk trades aiming for some quick money. You lose your money.
Some people would call this a scam.
Now replace the word "fund" with MMO and the word "money" with time.
Some people would call it a scam... but smart people would know there is no such thing as a "safe" investment.
now another analogy... you go to a restaurant, ate the entire meal, didn't say a word until you licked the plate clean... then after you start yelling at the chef that it was bad and demand a refund.
Some people would call this a scam, some would call these people cheap.. because the customer happily ate their food til it was all gone and still demand the refund afterwards.
Edited by Elridge on January 21, 2015 11:46PMAccount Name:@Elridge
"Be kind and generous to the people of Tamriel. Protect the weak, heal the sick, and give to the needy." -Stendarr "Ten Commands of the Nine Divines" -
corpse_run✭✭✭So you went to watch a movie in the theater and now that some time later it's on tv for free you want the movie theater to give you your money back? Right, good luck with that.
How about going into a movie theater to see an exclusive movie that was promised never to be shown on TV, which gets shown on TV anyhow?
I'm sure people have got refunds for that kind of incidents, but yeah... ZOS isn't legally obliged to refund anyone and thus probably won't.
Still, atleast try to get your analogies right.
Would be pertinent, except for the fact that ZOS never stated that the game would not go B2P. Not once. They said they had no immediate plans to go buy to play when the game came out and for a while afterwards but have been silent on the question in recent months.
Companies change their mind, especially when it becomes financially prudent to do so. This is what ZOS did and they have that right. You have the right not to sub or play if you do not like the direction they are going in. That is your right.
Past that, neither party is entitled to anything else.
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DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Analogy time:
An fund promises you a safe, long term investment. You take the offer and keep steadily depositing money in it.
Suddenly, the fund goes back on its promise & makes some high risk trades aiming for some quick money. You lose your money.
Some people would call this a scam.
Now replace the word "fund" with MMO and the word "money" with time.
Some people would call it a scam... but smart people would know there is no such thing as a "safe" investment.
As one of the "smart people", I will have to disagree
There are safe investments, otherwise I couldn't be sitting on my arse playing video games all day long.now another analogy... you go to a restaurant, ate the entire meal, didn't say a word until you licked the plate clean... then after you start yelling at the chef that it was bad and demand a refund.
Some people would call this a scam, some would call these people cheap.. because the customer happily ate their food til it was all gone and still demand the refund afterwards.
How about a better analogy:
You're Jewish & eat that meal, only to learn afterwards that it wasn't kosher (even though it was initially advertised as one).
Sigh... people and their analogies
Try to get them right, I'm getting tired of correcting them.Edited by DDuke on January 21, 2015 11:56PM -
eisberg✭✭✭corpse_run wrote: »
haha, yeah. BBB is better utilized for local business. Getting a good BBB rating if you are a small local business/service provider is very important. But for video gaming companies? Yeah, nobody cares. -
corpse_run✭✭✭How about a better analogy:
You're Jewish & eat that meal, only to learn afterwards that it wasn't kosher (even though it was initially advertised as one).
Sigh... people and their analogies
Try to get them right, I'm getting tired of correcting them.
Your analogy makes no sense either. The meal was kosher when you ate it. Future meals are not. Are you entitled to a refund of the meal you ate? No.
You bought the game. You paid the sub. ZOS gave you what you paid for. They decided that they are no longer making kosher meals, so you have the option to stop playing. It had no effect on whether the first year was "kosher" (sub) or not.
Get your analogies correct before you try to correct other's analogies.
Edited by corpse_run on January 21, 2015 11:58PM -
eisberg✭✭✭Analogy time:
An fund promises you a safe, long term investment. You take the offer and keep steadily depositing money in it.
Suddenly, the fund goes back on its promise & makes some high risk trades aiming for some quick money. You lose your money.
Some people would call this a scam.
Now replace the word "fund" with MMO and the word "money" with time.
Some people would call it a scam... but smart people would know there is no such thing as a "safe" investment.
As one of the "smart people", I will have to disagree
There are safe investments, otherwise I couldn't be sitting on my arse playing video games all day long.now another analogy... you go to a restaurant, ate the entire meal, didn't say a word until you licked the plate clean... then after you start yelling at the chef that it was bad and demand a refund.
Some people would call this a scam, some would call these people cheap.. because the customer happily ate their food til it was all gone and still demand the refund afterwards.
How about a better analogy:
You're Jewish & eat that meal, only to learn afterwards that it wasn't kosher (even though it was initially advertised as one).
Sigh... people and their analogies
Try to get them right, I'm getting tired of correcting them.[/quote]
Feel free to prove they advertised they would never go Buy to Play. Cause with that analogy above, you are stating they falsely advertised the game.
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DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭now another analogy... you go to a restaurant, ate the entire meal, didn't say a word until you licked the plate clean... then after you start yelling at the chef that it was bad and demand a refund.
Some people would call this a scam, some would call these people cheap.. because the customer happily ate their food til it was all gone and still demand the refund afterwards.
How about a better analogy:
You're Jewish & eat that meal, only to learn afterwards that it wasn't kosher (even though it was initially advertised as one).
Sigh... people and their analogies
Try to get them right, I'm getting tired of correcting them.
Feel free to prove they advertised they would never go Buy to Play. Cause with that analogy above, you are stating they falsely advertised the game.
[/quote]
"We have no current plans of changing our payment model"
"Subscription payment model enables us to steadily create content updates for you"
"We removed 6-month subscription, because they were the least popular"
(A couple days before this)
"We are are committed to remain open & honest about our future plans & policies"
How many times have you heard the following statements?
You can't sell a certain type of service, and then suddenly change that service entirely while making this kind of statements.Edited by DDuke on January 22, 2015 12:06AM -
corpse_run✭✭✭"We have no current plans of changing our payment model"
"Subscription payment model enables us to steadily create content updates for you"
"We removed 6-month subscription, because they were the least popular"
(A couple days before this)
"We are are committed to remain open & honest about our future plans & policies"
How many times have you heard the following statements?
You can't sell a certain type of service, and then suddenly change that service entirely while making this kind of statements.
Yeah, you kind of can. They never, ever stated they would not go B2P. Not once. Ever.
They have been open. They told us two months in advance that they were changing. Its not like they changed overnight with no warning.
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Elridge✭✭✭Analogy time:
An fund promises you a safe, long term investment. You take the offer and keep steadily depositing money in it.
Suddenly, the fund goes back on its promise & makes some high risk trades aiming for some quick money. You lose your money.
Some people would call this a scam.
Now replace the word "fund" with MMO and the word "money" with time.
Some people would call it a scam... but smart people would know there is no such thing as a "safe" investment.
As one of the "smart people", I will have to disagree
There are safe investments, otherwise I couldn't be sitting on my arse playing video games all day long.now another analogy... you go to a restaurant, ate the entire meal, didn't say a word until you licked the plate clean... then after you start yelling at the chef that it was bad and demand a refund.
Some people would call this a scam, some would call these people cheap.. because the customer happily ate their food til it was all gone and still demand the refund afterwards.
How about a better analogy:
You're Jewish & eat that meal, only to learn afterwards that it wasn't kosher (even though it was initially advertised as one).
Sigh... people and their analogies
Try to get them right, I'm getting tired of correcting them.
but they never promised it being "kosher", maybe they said they wanted to make it? Them telling us what they want to do and telling us exactly what our money is paying for are two different things. They even had a cash shop ready from the beta stages of the game nearly a year ago and said so upfront. They didn't say it wasn't going B2P or F2P, they said they didn't have plans for it at the time. If people pay attention to their wording they didn't "scam" anyone, their plans change along the way.
Fact is, everyone got what they paid for, the base game, and then their monthly sub. No one was "promised" anything, and at any point in between those months and months between, people could have opted out. I'd love to see someone link promises they made, not their "plans" for the game, a promise.Account Name:@Elridge
"Be kind and generous to the people of Tamriel. Protect the weak, heal the sick, and give to the needy." -Stendarr "Ten Commands of the Nine Divines" -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭But enough analogies, the whole point of the first one was that they're using your investment (subscription revenue) to create things that you (subscriber) don't want (B2P/F2P) and which were not initially envisioned (or perhaps they were, we just didn't know about it)
How do I know the current subscribers don't want B2P/F2P?
Well, I'd say the forums are quite vocal about that, and the popular opinion seems clear: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/146847/how-do-you-feel-about-the-b2p-announcement/p1
It's all about consumer trust, and Zenimax Media Inc has lost mine.
And as long as people keep tolerating this kind of behaviour, it'll keep happening in the gaming industry (just like pre-order bonuses & Day-1 DLC etc)Edited by DDuke on January 22, 2015 12:14AM -
eisberg✭✭✭now another analogy... you go to a restaurant, ate the entire meal, didn't say a word until you licked the plate clean... then after you start yelling at the chef that it was bad and demand a refund.
Some people would call this a scam, some would call these people cheap.. because the customer happily ate their food til it was all gone and still demand the refund afterwards.
How about a better analogy:
You're Jewish & eat that meal, only to learn afterwards that it wasn't kosher (even though it was initially advertised as one).
Sigh... people and their analogies
Try to get them right, I'm getting tired of correcting them.
Feel free to prove they advertised they would never go Buy to Play. Cause with that analogy above, you are stating they falsely advertised the game.
"We have no current plans of changing our payment model"
"Subscription payment model enables us to steadily create content updates for you"
"We removed 6-month subscription, because they were the least popular"
(A couple days before this)
"We are are committed to remain open & honest about our future plans & policies"
How many times have you heard the following statements?
You can't sell a certain type of service, and then suddenly change that service entirely while making this kind of statements.[/quote]
Yup, thank you for proving there was no false advertising. Not at one spot did they ever state they would never go Buy To Play. They stated their current plans was not to change it, but that does not mean the same thing as they never would change their model. They also gave nearly 2 months warning, seems like they are being open and honest about their future plans.
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DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭now another analogy... you go to a restaurant, ate the entire meal, didn't say a word until you licked the plate clean... then after you start yelling at the chef that it was bad and demand a refund.
Some people would call this a scam, some would call these people cheap.. because the customer happily ate their food til it was all gone and still demand the refund afterwards.
How about a better analogy:
You're Jewish & eat that meal, only to learn afterwards that it wasn't kosher (even though it was initially advertised as one).
Sigh... people and their analogies
Try to get them right, I'm getting tired of correcting them.
Feel free to prove they advertised they would never go Buy to Play. Cause with that analogy above, you are stating they falsely advertised the game.
"We have no current plans of changing our payment model"
"Subscription payment model enables us to steadily create content updates for you"
"We removed 6-month subscription, because they were the least popular"
(A couple days before this)
"We are are committed to remain open & honest about our future plans & policies"
How many times have you heard the following statements?
You can't sell a certain type of service, and then suddenly change that service entirely while making this kind of statements.
Yup, thank you for proving there was no false advertising. Not at one spot did they ever state they would never go Buy To Play. They stated their current plans was not to change it, but that does not mean the same thing as they never would change their model. They also gave nearly 2 months warning, seems like they are being open and honest about their future plans.
[/quote]
No, I admit. There were no promises from them (apart from one a couple years ago, when one of the developers said they'd rather shut down the game than go F2P, which they kind of didn't do), only player expectations on how the money they invested would be used.
Dishonesty, but nothing that would legally bind them to give refunds. -
Elridge✭✭✭Except you can't tell them what to do with your money, it's an investment in hopes they do what you want, not a promise they are going to fulfill your desires. You aren't buying a part of the company. What they player envisions is only the hopes of what we want to see, we can't force them to do anything, it's their product to do with as they envision. If that doesn't match up with your vision, you unsub and find a different company that matches your vision, or start your own company.
And linking a forum post about negative feedback doesn't prove anything, as a gamer you should know the loudest voices are the angry ones.
Edit: Now don't get me wrong, I'm not a major fan of B2P or F2P games, if it were fully F2P I myself might go find something else to play. However I know I got what I payed for, and they didn't lie to me. I remember that instance of what you said, the dev saying they would rather it burn then go F2P haha. Which I also agree with, I'm glad its going B2P instead of F2P. But even that's not a promise, that was his personal opinion. He never said it wouldn't, he said he doesn't want it to.Edited by Elridge on January 22, 2015 12:24AMAccount Name:@Elridge
"Be kind and generous to the people of Tamriel. Protect the weak, heal the sick, and give to the needy." -Stendarr "Ten Commands of the Nine Divines" -
DanielMaxwell✭✭✭Scarletblaze wrote: »Without our consent, we all paid a subscription for a Beta quality game. Please refund our money for the past year. You failed to fully inform the public of your intentions and you failed to deliver on your promises.
Full refund is the very least you guys could do.
All MMO's are in a state of constant development .New systems will be tested internally , placed on a public beta test server , then placed on the live servers , during each of these stages they make changes to the games code along with changes to the code for the new systems . Each stage exposes the new systems , and new code , to a larger base of concurrent users which increases the chance of bugs and code errors being found .
Simple put even on the live servers you are still testing the game , if that causes you problems then perhaps MMO games are not suited to you , but that is entirely up to you to decide . -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Except you can't tell them what to do with your money, it's an investment in hopes they do what you want, not a promise they are going to fulfill your desires. You aren't buying a part of the company. What they player envisions is only the hopes of what we want to see, we can't force them to do anything, it's their product to do with as they envision. If that doesn't match up with your vision, you unsub and find a different company that matches your vision, or start your own company.
Ever heard the saying "consumer is always right"? Most companies adhere to that, because it is the honest things to do.And linking a forum post about negative feedback doesn't prove anything, as a gamer you should know the loudest voices are the angry ones.
So you really expect majority (or even a significant part) of consumers to want B2P/F2P (it's not like they even asked us), and then wave away all evidence to the contrary?
I think this is what might be happening:Edited by DDuke on January 22, 2015 12:30AM -
eisberg✭✭✭Except you can't tell them what to do with your money, it's an investment in hopes they do what you want, not a promise they are going to fulfill your desires. You aren't buying a part of the company. What they player envisions is only the hopes of what we want to see, we can't force them to do anything, it's their product to do with as they envision. If that doesn't match up with your vision, you unsub and find a different company that matches your vision, or start your own company.
Ever heard the saying "consumer is always right"? Most companies adhere to that, because it is the honest things to do.And linking a forum post about negative feedback doesn't prove anything, as a gamer you should know the loudest voices are the angry ones.
So you really expect majority (or even a significant part) of consumers to want B2P/F2P (it's not like they even asked us), and then wave away all evidence to the contrary?
I think this is what might be happening:
Well considering how many MMOs changed their model, and now their revenue actually increased, says that apparently the consumer is right, they don't want subscription models. And yes, going by forums is a bad idea, not reliable at all. What is more reliable is real world examples, and considering that it is obvious that the subscription model is dying, only being held up by a comparatively few outliers, we can see that the consumer does prefer a non subscription model.Edited by eisberg on January 22, 2015 12:34AM -
Ommamar✭✭✭✭Except you can't tell them what to do with your money, it's an investment in hopes they do what you want, not a promise they are going to fulfill your desires. You aren't buying a part of the company. What they player envisions is only the hopes of what we want to see, we can't force them to do anything, it's their product to do with as they envision. If that doesn't match up with your vision, you unsub and find a different company that matches your vision, or start your own company.
Ever heard the saying "consumer is always right"? Most companies adhere to that, because it is the honest things to do.And linking a forum post about negative feedback doesn't prove anything, as a gamer you should know the loudest voices are the angry ones.
So you really expect majority (or even a significant part) of consumers to want B2P/F2P (it's not like they even asked us), and then wave away all evidence to the contrary?
I think this is what might be happening:
Why are you still here on the forums?
