Thanks ZOS for (insert sure to be censored word here) over your Roleplayers again.

MornaBaine

Per the announcement, if I continue to sub I will "receive monthly in-game benefits and a monthly allotment of crowns to spend in the store." I played SWTOR. I tried it free for awhile but because SO MUCH CONTENT was locked behind the pay wall I pretty much HAD to sub or hurl my monitor out the widow. BUT once I HAD subbed I quickly realized that even with the "extra" cartel coins that were thrown my way there was ABSOLUTELY NO FREAKING WAY I could possibly afford all the things I wanted in the cash store and, OF COURSE, there was no way to earn those items in the game with in-game credits. Even worse, SWTOR would lock away a single item you wanted in a huge "box" full of other items that you had to buy...and many of those only gave you a CHANCE at getting the item you wanted, not a guarantee that you would get it once you handed them 20 bucks.

So not only do you get to pay a sub just to have the same game you used to but now you'll STILL have to pay a LOT more to the cash store to get the customization items that SHOULD have been free and a regular part of the game under the regular subscription model. I guarantee you that they are NOT going to give us a barber shop for which we can pay in-game gold to change your hairstyle available only to subscribers. No, they are going to charge you real additional money for every single new hairstyle they add. Social clothes for the Disguise slot? Same thing. You'll pay per outfit. The oft-mentioned Senche tiger mount? Oh yeah, it'll be in the cash shop. And it'll be AT LEAST 15 bucks just like the horse they have in there now. Probably more. Housing? And all the things to put in it? Prepare to take out a loan. The ability for vampires to hide their appearance? Paul Sage will personally ensure that it's at least 20 bucks just for me. Ability to completely change your appearance via a return to the character creation screen? Yep there will be an awesome wizard you can pay 20 bucks to for the privilege. Per character. Name change? Sure. Ten bucks please.

Right now the only thing that is even making me CONSIDER staying is my freaking guild. But they implement this the way SWTOR did (or Divines forbid, even worse) I'm out.

Kevingway

Did they specifically say some of those things, or is it projection? I believe you regardless, but... man.

starkerealm

MornaBaine wrote: »

Per the announcement, if I continue to sub I will "receive monthly in-game benefits and a monthly allotment of crowns to spend in the store." I played SWTOR.

My condolences.

MornaBaine wrote: »

I tried it free for awhile but because SO MUCH CONTENT was locked behind the pay wall I pretty much HAD to sub or hurl my monitor out the widow.

That might end up being the case here too, eventually.

MornaBaine wrote: »

BUT once I HAD subbed I quickly realized that even with the "extra" cartel coins that were thrown my way there was ABSOLUTELY NO FREAKING WAY I could possibly afford all the things I wanted in the cash store and, OF COURSE, there was no way to earn those items in the game with in-game credits.

So, what they've said is that the Crown items will be all cosmetic. So, unless you absolutely need everything...

With one major caveat. DLC (new areas like Hrothgar and Orisinium) are going to be crown purchasable, OR open to people with an active sub. Sort of like how DCUO gives legendary subs full access to all their DLC packs, so long as they remain subbed.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Even worse, SWTOR would lock away a single item you wanted in a huge "box" full of other items that you had to buy...and many of those only gave you a CHANCE at getting the item you wanted, not a guarantee that you would get it once you handed them 20 bucks.

Yeah, I remember when STO started gating ships behind lockboxes. Not happiness.

MornaBaine wrote: »

So not only do you get to pay a sub just to have the same game you used to but now you'll STILL have to pay a LOT more to the cash store to get the customization items that SHOULD have been free and a regular part of the game under the regular subscription model. I guarantee you that they are NOT going to give us a barber shop for which we can pay in-game gold to change your hairstyle available only to subscribers. No, they are going to charge you real additional money for every single new hairstyle they add. Social clothes for the Disguise slot? Same thing. You'll pay per outfit. The oft-mentioned Senche tiger mount? Oh yeah, it'll be in the cash shop. And it'll be AT LEAST 15 bucks just like the horse they have in there now. Probably more. Housing? And all the things to put in it? Prepare to take out a loan. The ability for vampires to hide their appearance? Paul Sage will personally ensure that it's at least 20 bucks just for me. Ability to completely change your appearance via a return to the character creation screen? Yep there will be an awesome wizard you can pay 20 bucks to for the privilege. Per character. Name change? Sure. Ten bucks please.

So, yeah, that's speculation.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Right now the only thing that is even making me CONSIDER staying is my freaking guild. But they implement this the way SWTOR did (or Divines forbid, even worse) I'm out.

Look, honestly, with TOR? That was the most petulant F2P transition I've ever seen. And the one from Star Trek really screwed me over.

With The Old Republic, you could practically see Bioware flipping the players off. The sub numbers tanked so hard, the game was in danger of shutting down, and the free to play transition was the developers throwing a tantrum at everyone's expense. "How dare you not love our masterfully crafted story that's at least as good as all this fanfiction we ripped off to get here! We'll show you!"

What the Twitch stream stressed is, if you choose not to sub, you're not going to be locked out of content. The cash shop is for cosmetic and "convenience" items only.

Yeah, the Guar mounts and Senche pets are explicitly going there. We'll know next month what the pricing scheme will look like, and then we can decide if it's too sharp. There was also a mention that the 12 month loyalty reward will be a mount, so it's possible that will actually be the Senche, we just don't know yet.

The convenience items are level scaling health/stamina/magicka potions (no clue if they're tripots or separate potions) repair kits (just like you can buy in game with gold) or packs of soulgems (again, just like you can buy from mystics in game now.)

Account services like name changes will probably be in. Though, the industry norm is between $2.50 and $5 for that. It's another example where TOR looks down it's nose at you and flips you off.

That said, the mounts probably will be around 15 bucks. Just judging by the one that's already in there. And, we don't know what 1500 Crowns actually equals. If the mounts are 1500, then that means you could potentially snap one up every month. If they're 4500, and 1500 = 5 bucks... then...

Thing is we don't know. I wouldn't point to TOR and say we're automatically going that route. That is a worst case scenario.

starkerealm

Kevingway wrote: »

Did they specifically say some of those things, or is it projection? I believe you regardless, but... man.

No, they're talking about their experiences from TOR.

Stonesthrow

For the people who are calling this the last straw and now they really, really, REALLY are finally going to quit… could you all just leave already and stop trying to get people to leave with you?

It's sad.

MornaBaine

starkerealm wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Per the announcement, if I continue to sub I will "receive monthly in-game benefits and a monthly allotment of crowns to spend in the store." I played SWTOR.

My condolences.

MornaBaine wrote: »

I tried it free for awhile but because SO MUCH CONTENT was locked behind the pay wall I pretty much HAD to sub or hurl my monitor out the widow.

That might end up being the case here too, eventually.

MornaBaine wrote: »

BUT once I HAD subbed I quickly realized that even with the "extra" cartel coins that were thrown my way there was ABSOLUTELY NO FREAKING WAY I could possibly afford all the things I wanted in the cash store and, OF COURSE, there was no way to earn those items in the game with in-game credits.

So, what they've said is that the Crown items will be all cosmetic. So, unless you absolutely need everything...

With one major caveat. DLC (new areas like Hrothgar and Orisinium) are going to be crown purchasable, OR open to people with an active sub. Sort of like how DCUO gives legendary subs full access to all their DLC packs, so long as they remain subbed.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Even worse, SWTOR would lock away a single item you wanted in a huge "box" full of other items that you had to buy...and many of those only gave you a CHANCE at getting the item you wanted, not a guarantee that you would get it once you handed them 20 bucks.

Yeah, I remember when STO started gating ships behind lockboxes. Not happiness.

MornaBaine wrote: »

So not only do you get to pay a sub just to have the same game you used to but now you'll STILL have to pay a LOT more to the cash store to get the customization items that SHOULD have been free and a regular part of the game under the regular subscription model. I guarantee you that they are NOT going to give us a barber shop for which we can pay in-game gold to change your hairstyle available only to subscribers. No, they are going to charge you real additional money for every single new hairstyle they add. Social clothes for the Disguise slot? Same thing. You'll pay per outfit. The oft-mentioned Senche tiger mount? Oh yeah, it'll be in the cash shop. And it'll be AT LEAST 15 bucks just like the horse they have in there now. Probably more. Housing? And all the things to put in it? Prepare to take out a loan. The ability for vampires to hide their appearance? Paul Sage will personally ensure that it's at least 20 bucks just for me. Ability to completely change your appearance via a return to the character creation screen? Yep there will be an awesome wizard you can pay 20 bucks to for the privilege. Per character. Name change? Sure. Ten bucks please.

So, yeah, that's speculation.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Right now the only thing that is even making me CONSIDER staying is my freaking guild. But they implement this the way SWTOR did (or Divines forbid, even worse) I'm out.

Look, honestly, with TOR? That was the most petulant F2P transition I've ever seen. And the one from Star Trek really screwed me over.

With The Old Republic, you could practically see Bioware flipping the players off. The sub numbers tanked so hard, the game was in danger of shutting down, and the free to play transition was the developers throwing a tantrum at everyone's expense. "How dare you not love our masterfully crafted story that's at least as good as all this fanfiction we ripped off to get here! We'll show you!"

What the Twitch stream stressed is, if you choose not to sub, you're not going to be locked out of content. The cash shop is for cosmetic and "convenience" items only.

Yeah, the Guar mounts and Senche pets are explicitly going there. We'll know next month what the pricing scheme will look like, and then we can decide if it's too sharp. There was also a mention that the 12 month loyalty reward will be a mount, so it's possible that will actually be the Senche, we just don't know yet.

The convenience items are level scaling health/stamina/magicka potions (no clue if they're tripots or separate potions) repair kits (just like you can buy in game with gold) or packs of soulgems (again, just like you can buy from mystics in game now.)

Account services like name changes will probably be in. Though, the industry norm is between $2.50 and $5 for that. It's another example where TOR looks down it's nose at you and flips you off.

That said, the mounts probably will be around 15 bucks. Just judging by the one that's already in there. And, we don't know what 1500 Crowns actually equals. If the mounts are 1500, then that means you could potentially snap one up every month. If they're 4500, and 1500 = 5 bucks... then...

Thing is we don't know. I wouldn't point to TOR and say we're automatically going that route. That is a worst case scenario.

It's true that I am basically going off what I experienced in TOR. But with the way ZOS has treated its players so far and they way they have mismanaged SO MANY things I don't think I'm wildly out of line to fear that pretty much the same thing is going to happen here. I've gone from my finger hovering over the cancel button to taking a wait and see approach but I am reallllllly pessimistic about this whole thing. I HOPE they will prove me wrong and release a truly inclusive and transparent preview of what we will see in the cash shop RIGHT AWAY. Like, THIS MONTH.

tinythinker

MornaBaine wrote: »

BUT once I HAD subbed I quickly realized that even with the "extra" cartel coins that were thrown my way there was ABSOLUTELY NO FREAKING WAY I could possibly afford all the things I wanted in the cash store and, OF COURSE, there was no way to earn those items in the game with in-game credits.

I just wondered about this possibility in another thread. But the fact is there is little players can do if they choose to stay and keep their sub as ESO Plus.

Roechacca

I agree OP . Once you open that Cash Shop door you can never close it .

Cuyler

starkerealm wrote: »

What the Twitch stream stressed is, if you choose not to sub, you're not going to be locked out of content. The cash shop is for cosmetic and "convenience" items only.

They state that "convenience" items were pots and soul gems. I just hope these pots aren't better than what we have currently. Also, what's the extent of the definition of a convenience item? Like will we begin to see the "convenient cuirass of I win in everything" or the "convenient ring of face rolling" that is available only by cash and is OP compared to what we can acquire in game.

starkerealm

MornaBaine wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Per the announcement, if I continue to sub I will "receive monthly in-game benefits and a monthly allotment of crowns to spend in the store." I played SWTOR.

My condolences.

MornaBaine wrote: »

I tried it free for awhile but because SO MUCH CONTENT was locked behind the pay wall I pretty much HAD to sub or hurl my monitor out the widow.

That might end up being the case here too, eventually.

MornaBaine wrote: »

BUT once I HAD subbed I quickly realized that even with the "extra" cartel coins that were thrown my way there was ABSOLUTELY NO FREAKING WAY I could possibly afford all the things I wanted in the cash store and, OF COURSE, there was no way to earn those items in the game with in-game credits.

So, what they've said is that the Crown items will be all cosmetic. So, unless you absolutely need everything...

With one major caveat. DLC (new areas like Hrothgar and Orisinium) are going to be crown purchasable, OR open to people with an active sub. Sort of like how DCUO gives legendary subs full access to all their DLC packs, so long as they remain subbed.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Even worse, SWTOR would lock away a single item you wanted in a huge "box" full of other items that you had to buy...and many of those only gave you a CHANCE at getting the item you wanted, not a guarantee that you would get it once you handed them 20 bucks.

Yeah, I remember when STO started gating ships behind lockboxes. Not happiness.

MornaBaine wrote: »

So not only do you get to pay a sub just to have the same game you used to but now you'll STILL have to pay a LOT more to the cash store to get the customization items that SHOULD have been free and a regular part of the game under the regular subscription model. I guarantee you that they are NOT going to give us a barber shop for which we can pay in-game gold to change your hairstyle available only to subscribers. No, they are going to charge you real additional money for every single new hairstyle they add. Social clothes for the Disguise slot? Same thing. You'll pay per outfit. The oft-mentioned Senche tiger mount? Oh yeah, it'll be in the cash shop. And it'll be AT LEAST 15 bucks just like the horse they have in there now. Probably more. Housing? And all the things to put in it? Prepare to take out a loan. The ability for vampires to hide their appearance? Paul Sage will personally ensure that it's at least 20 bucks just for me. Ability to completely change your appearance via a return to the character creation screen? Yep there will be an awesome wizard you can pay 20 bucks to for the privilege. Per character. Name change? Sure. Ten bucks please.

So, yeah, that's speculation.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Right now the only thing that is even making me CONSIDER staying is my freaking guild. But they implement this the way SWTOR did (or Divines forbid, even worse) I'm out.

Look, honestly, with TOR? That was the most petulant F2P transition I've ever seen. And the one from Star Trek really screwed me over.

With The Old Republic, you could practically see Bioware flipping the players off. The sub numbers tanked so hard, the game was in danger of shutting down, and the free to play transition was the developers throwing a tantrum at everyone's expense. "How dare you not love our masterfully crafted story that's at least as good as all this fanfiction we ripped off to get here! We'll show you!"

What the Twitch stream stressed is, if you choose not to sub, you're not going to be locked out of content. The cash shop is for cosmetic and "convenience" items only.

Yeah, the Guar mounts and Senche pets are explicitly going there. We'll know next month what the pricing scheme will look like, and then we can decide if it's too sharp. There was also a mention that the 12 month loyalty reward will be a mount, so it's possible that will actually be the Senche, we just don't know yet.

The convenience items are level scaling health/stamina/magicka potions (no clue if they're tripots or separate potions) repair kits (just like you can buy in game with gold) or packs of soulgems (again, just like you can buy from mystics in game now.)

Account services like name changes will probably be in. Though, the industry norm is between $2.50 and $5 for that. It's another example where TOR looks down it's nose at you and flips you off.

That said, the mounts probably will be around 15 bucks. Just judging by the one that's already in there. And, we don't know what 1500 Crowns actually equals. If the mounts are 1500, then that means you could potentially snap one up every month. If they're 4500, and 1500 = 5 bucks... then...

Thing is we don't know. I wouldn't point to TOR and say we're automatically going that route. That is a worst case scenario.

It's true that I am basically going off what I experienced in TOR. But with the way ZOS has treated its players so far and they way they have mismanaged SO MANY things I don't think I'm wildly out of line to feat that pretty much the same thing is going to happen here. I've gone from my finger hovering over the cancel button to taking a wait and see approach but I am reallllllly pessimistic about this whole thing. I HOPE they will prove me wrong and release a truly inclusive and transparent preview of what we will see in the cash shop RIGHT AWAY. Like, THIS MONTH.

The difference is Bioware (and to an extent EA) has actual contempt for the customers. ZoS hasn't had the perfect track record, but I can't point at any of their mistakes and say they were caused by malice.

TOR is, hands down, the worst F2P transition. It was designed, explicitly, to screw over the players as hard as possible, and force them to sub up, AND pay through the nose.

I've seen pretty malicious F2P transitions. Trust me TOR is the extreme outlier here.

Also, yes, the crown shop is slated to be on PTS with the 1.6 update. That should be out next week. It's ZoS time, but we will see what's coming pretty soon.

MornaBaine

starkerealm wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Per the announcement, if I continue to sub I will "receive monthly in-game benefits and a monthly allotment of crowns to spend in the store." I played SWTOR.

My condolences.

MornaBaine wrote: »

I tried it free for awhile but because SO MUCH CONTENT was locked behind the pay wall I pretty much HAD to sub or hurl my monitor out the widow.

That might end up being the case here too, eventually.

MornaBaine wrote: »

BUT once I HAD subbed I quickly realized that even with the "extra" cartel coins that were thrown my way there was ABSOLUTELY NO FREAKING WAY I could possibly afford all the things I wanted in the cash store and, OF COURSE, there was no way to earn those items in the game with in-game credits.

So, what they've said is that the Crown items will be all cosmetic. So, unless you absolutely need everything...

With one major caveat. DLC (new areas like Hrothgar and Orisinium) are going to be crown purchasable, OR open to people with an active sub. Sort of like how DCUO gives legendary subs full access to all their DLC packs, so long as they remain subbed.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Even worse, SWTOR would lock away a single item you wanted in a huge "box" full of other items that you had to buy...and many of those only gave you a CHANCE at getting the item you wanted, not a guarantee that you would get it once you handed them 20 bucks.

Yeah, I remember when STO started gating ships behind lockboxes. Not happiness.

MornaBaine wrote: »

So not only do you get to pay a sub just to have the same game you used to but now you'll STILL have to pay a LOT more to the cash store to get the customization items that SHOULD have been free and a regular part of the game under the regular subscription model. I guarantee you that they are NOT going to give us a barber shop for which we can pay in-game gold to change your hairstyle available only to subscribers. No, they are going to charge you real additional money for every single new hairstyle they add. Social clothes for the Disguise slot? Same thing. You'll pay per outfit. The oft-mentioned Senche tiger mount? Oh yeah, it'll be in the cash shop. And it'll be AT LEAST 15 bucks just like the horse they have in there now. Probably more. Housing? And all the things to put in it? Prepare to take out a loan. The ability for vampires to hide their appearance? Paul Sage will personally ensure that it's at least 20 bucks just for me. Ability to completely change your appearance via a return to the character creation screen? Yep there will be an awesome wizard you can pay 20 bucks to for the privilege. Per character. Name change? Sure. Ten bucks please.

So, yeah, that's speculation.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Right now the only thing that is even making me CONSIDER staying is my freaking guild. But they implement this the way SWTOR did (or Divines forbid, even worse) I'm out.

Look, honestly, with TOR? That was the most petulant F2P transition I've ever seen. And the one from Star Trek really screwed me over.

With The Old Republic, you could practically see Bioware flipping the players off. The sub numbers tanked so hard, the game was in danger of shutting down, and the free to play transition was the developers throwing a tantrum at everyone's expense. "How dare you not love our masterfully crafted story that's at least as good as all this fanfiction we ripped off to get here! We'll show you!"

What the Twitch stream stressed is, if you choose not to sub, you're not going to be locked out of content. The cash shop is for cosmetic and "convenience" items only.

Yeah, the Guar mounts and Senche pets are explicitly going there. We'll know next month what the pricing scheme will look like, and then we can decide if it's too sharp. There was also a mention that the 12 month loyalty reward will be a mount, so it's possible that will actually be the Senche, we just don't know yet.

The convenience items are level scaling health/stamina/magicka potions (no clue if they're tripots or separate potions) repair kits (just like you can buy in game with gold) or packs of soulgems (again, just like you can buy from mystics in game now.)

Account services like name changes will probably be in. Though, the industry norm is between $2.50 and $5 for that. It's another example where TOR looks down it's nose at you and flips you off.

That said, the mounts probably will be around 15 bucks. Just judging by the one that's already in there. And, we don't know what 1500 Crowns actually equals. If the mounts are 1500, then that means you could potentially snap one up every month. If they're 4500, and 1500 = 5 bucks... then...

Thing is we don't know. I wouldn't point to TOR and say we're automatically going that route. That is a worst case scenario.

It's true that I am basically going off what I experienced in TOR. But with the way ZOS has treated its players so far and they way they have mismanaged SO MANY things I don't think I'm wildly out of line to feat that pretty much the same thing is going to happen here. I've gone from my finger hovering over the cancel button to taking a wait and see approach but I am reallllllly pessimistic about this whole thing. I HOPE they will prove me wrong and release a truly inclusive and transparent preview of what we will see in the cash shop RIGHT AWAY. Like, THIS MONTH.

The difference is Bioware (and to an extent EA) has actual contempt for the customers. ZoS hasn't had the perfect track record, but I can't point at any of their mistakes and say they were caused by malice.

TOR is, hands down, the worst F2P transition. It was designed, explicitly, to screw over the players as hard as possible, and force them to sub up, AND pay through the nose.

I've seen pretty malicious F2P transitions. Trust me TOR is the extreme outlier here.

Also, yes, the crown shop is slated to be on PTS with the 1.6 update. That should be out next week. It's ZoS time, but we will see what's coming pretty soon.

I will be very interested to know what the "crowns" I'm going to be "given" will actually buy me. My suspicion is that the things that are really desirable are always going to be enough out of reach that you'll have to buy more crowns to get them.

Here's hoping I'm wrong. And I still really feel that everything in the cash shop should ALSO be available in game via in game gold.

Zed

MornaBaine wrote: »

I will be very interested to know what the "crowns" I'm going to be "given" will actually buy me. My suspicion is that the things that are really desirable are always going to be enough out of reach that you'll have to buy more crowns to get them.

Here's hoping I'm wrong. And I still really feel that everything in the cash shop should ALSO be available in game via in game gold.

Indeed. If Zenimax is going with the fairly standard $1 = 100 coins conversion rate, which seems logical based on the info on the coin allowances that come with subs, and doesn't deviate too much from the current pricing method ($15 dollars for a mount), then I think you're going to need to spend more money to get the content you want. 1500 crowns per month is probably just a drop in the bucket for the stuff they've got planned.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

As I am in a RP guild, most of the chatter today has been 'I want that and that.' We been asking for costumes (I hope that they are dyeable) for nearly a year. The pets in their own inventory are another thing that RPers want as well as the mounts. As we are getting what we want to enhance RP, where is the downside for RPers? Yes, we will have to budget our crowns but if you stay subbed, all the content is yours. Now, you mentioned a pay gate where some players won't be able to get to. How is that any different from the phasing we have now? A level 3 can't walk into Northpoint. These changes will eventually lead to player housing which is so needed to escape from the trolls. Just sit tight and wait to see things on the PTS. It won't be as bad as people fear.

Ooooh, I just realized that the rededication ceremony is after the cash shop. I guess that means the wedding gown will be the first purchase for me, but would you wear white when reaffirming wedding vows after 23 years? I am fairly certain that you are invited to the event, Morna. So, you can't quit until afterwards.

MornaBaine

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

As I am in a RP guild, most of the chatter today has been 'I want that and that.' We been asking for costumes (I hope that they are dyeable) for nearly a year. The pets in their own inventory are another thing that RPers want as well as the mounts. As we are getting what we want to enhance RP, where is the downside for RPers? Yes, we will have to budget our crowns but if you stay subbed, all the content is yours. Now, you mentioned a pay gate where some players won't be able to get to. How is that any different from the phasing we have now? A level 3 can't walk into Northpoint. These changes will eventually lead to player housing which is so needed to escape from the trolls. Just sit tight and wait to see things on the PTS. It won't be as bad as people fear.

Ooooh, I just realized that the rededication ceremony is after the cash shop. I guess that means the wedding gown will be the first purchase for me, but would you wear white when reaffirming wedding vows after 23 years? I am fairly certain that you are invited to the event, Morna. So, you can't quit until afterwards.

As I've said, my fear is that even with the crowns "given" a to a subscriber the things in the cash store will be priced beyond that so that you will have to buy more crowns in order to get anything you want. And IF they do this anything like SWTOR does it will be a gigantic rip-off. I'm waiting to see what the "pricing" will be like relative to what I'll be "given" before passing judgement on that score but I, like many others, just want ZOS to know what sort of "cash store practices" I will find completely unacceptable. Plus, there's all this talk of "it's ok because it's just vanity items." It's ROLEPLAY items. All that "fluff" is what we RPers so eagerly seek and make so many requests and suggestions for. Only to be told that, even if we pay a sub, we still have to purchase separately. It will be all the stuff we've begged them to put in the game and get told by (usually) other players that these things "aren't important" and that roleplayers are too small and insignificant a group to have resources "wasted" on. So sure NOW we may get the things we want...but, small, insignificant and unimportant niches group that we are....we get to pay for them. Hence my lack of excitement.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

I bet anything that we see a lot more than just us RPers buying the stuff. I suspect that the cash shop would be good for one item a month, maybe two with the crowns we will get from subbing. That is more than we have gotten in the past year.

BlueIllyrian

Cuyler wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

What the Twitch stream stressed is, if you choose not to sub, you're not going to be locked out of content. The cash shop is for cosmetic and "convenience" items only.

They state that "convenience" items were pots and soul gems. I just hope these pots aren't better than what we have currently. Also, what's the extent of the definition of a convenience item? Like will we begin to see the "convenient cuirass of I win in everything" or the "convenient ring of face rolling" that is available only by cash and is OP compared to what we can acquire in game.

I find "I win" button to be very convenient, so for $20 I should be able to one shot the boss of my choosing. The fact you just died for seventeenth time trying the same boss has no impact on my gameplay, when I am done with my "I win" button you can continue dying so I am not impacting your gameplay.

BlueIllyrian

Frankly I like SWTOR, never had problems saving credits to buy stuff I wanted from auction house (GTN). Plus their so-called f2p works for me as it's basically entices people to sub. I don't see ESO going that route and I remember that in LOTRO precisely RP-ers were biggest early supporters of the cash shop. It starts with costumes and ends with p2w.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Kevingway wrote: »

Did they specifically say some of those things, or is it projection? I believe you regardless, but... man.

No, nothing like that at all has been said, it's nerd-rage speculation.

BlueIllyrian

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Kevingway wrote: »

Did they specifically say some of those things, or is it projection? I believe you regardless, but... man.

No, nothing like that at all has been said, it's nerd-rage speculation.

Unlike fanboy rose-coloured glasses?

Naivefanboi

Stonesthrow wrote: »

For the people who are calling this the last straw and now they really, really, REALLY are finally going to quit… could you all just leave already and stop trying to get people to leave with you?

It's sad.

dont worry bud cheer up, some will be around to thank you for supporting this wanna be gimmick garbage. and go over console sales at length ;P

Naivefanboi

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

As I am in a RP guild, most of the chatter today has been 'I want that and that.' We been asking for costumes (I hope that they are dyeable) for nearly a year. The pets in their own inventory are another thing that RPers want as well as the mounts. As we are getting what we want to enhance RP, where is the downside for RPers? Yes, we will have to budget our crowns but if you stay subbed, all the content is yours. Now, you mentioned a pay gate where some players won't be able to get to. How is that any different from the phasing we have now? A level 3 can't walk into Northpoint. These changes will eventually lead to player housing which is so needed to escape from the trolls. Just sit tight and wait to see things on the PTS. It won't be as bad as people fear.

Ooooh, I just realized that the rededication ceremony is after the cash shop. I guess that means the wedding gown will be the first purchase for me, but would you wear white when reaffirming wedding vows after 23 years? I am fairly certain that you are invited to the event, Morna. So, you can't quit until afterwards.

thanks for that im gonna go throw up now.
glad you rpers are more then happy to turn this into a micro trans game

BlueIllyrian

jjf42001_ESO wrote: »

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

As I am in a RP guild, most of the chatter today has been 'I want that and that.' We been asking for costumes (I hope that they are dyeable) for nearly a year. The pets in their own inventory are another thing that RPers want as well as the mounts. As we are getting what we want to enhance RP, where is the downside for RPers? Yes, we will have to budget our crowns but if you stay subbed, all the content is yours. Now, you mentioned a pay gate where some players won't be able to get to. How is that any different from the phasing we have now? A level 3 can't walk into Northpoint. These changes will eventually lead to player housing which is so needed to escape from the trolls. Just sit tight and wait to see things on the PTS. It won't be as bad as people fear.

Ooooh, I just realized that the rededication ceremony is after the cash shop. I guess that means the wedding gown will be the first purchase for me, but would you wear white when reaffirming wedding vows after 23 years? I am fairly certain that you are invited to the event, Morna. So, you can't quit until afterwards.

thanks for that im gonna go throw up now.
glad you rpers are more then happy to turn this into a micro trans game

They did the same in LOTRO, pretty dyes and outfits and squeels, this accelerated bloating of the cash shop and when the game ended up with huge p2w monstrosity they simply moved on or continued to rp in their little corner with their level 12 character.

Been one of them.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

BlueIllyrian wrote: »

Frankly I like SWTOR, never had problems saving credits to buy stuff I wanted from auction house (GTN). Plus their so-called f2p works for me as it's basically entices people to sub. I don't see ESO going that route and I remember that in LOTRO precisely RP-ers were biggest early supporters of the cash shop. It starts with costumes and ends with p2w.

Here is the problem. Pay to win. Precisely, how do you win a RPG? All of the numbers mean nothing in the terms of RP. You can not 'win' role play. You might have fun with other role players, but there is no winning. It is ALL about the story that you choose to tell through the role playing. ESO is STILL a MMORPG. See the last three letters?

rynth

lol there a lot of "chicken little" types on this forum, thank god they don't represent the player base.

The costumes look great, like the new mounts, and the vanity pets seems pretty cool. What is there not to like?

And TOR's issues are completely different then what is going on with ESO, seems more like ESO is going like Guild Wars.

Iago

They don't care because now that all of us have paid for Beta they don't need us their new B2P Cash shop buyers will keep em going.

JamilaRaj

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

As I am in a RP guild, most of the chatter today has been 'I want that and that.' We been asking for costumes (I hope that they are dyeable) for nearly a year. The pets in their own inventory are another thing that RPers want as well as the mounts. As we are getting what we want to enhance RP, where is the downside for RPers?

I thought RPers want to...like...actually tailor costumes in game. After all, saying to fellow RPer (instead of something like "blah blah...look at my leather jacker, I created it from skin of that cheeky Aldmeri we peeled off yesterday near Nikel...") "blah blah...look at my wedding robe! 10 bucks in cash shop! They have 50% discount this week and you get 10 soul gems for free if you buy whole Tamriel (TM) Wedding Pack!" sounds very un-RP.

starkerealm

MornaBaine wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Per the announcement, if I continue to sub I will "receive monthly in-game benefits and a monthly allotment of crowns to spend in the store." I played SWTOR.

My condolences.

MornaBaine wrote: »

I tried it free for awhile but because SO MUCH CONTENT was locked behind the pay wall I pretty much HAD to sub or hurl my monitor out the widow.

That might end up being the case here too, eventually.

MornaBaine wrote: »

BUT once I HAD subbed I quickly realized that even with the "extra" cartel coins that were thrown my way there was ABSOLUTELY NO FREAKING WAY I could possibly afford all the things I wanted in the cash store and, OF COURSE, there was no way to earn those items in the game with in-game credits.

So, what they've said is that the Crown items will be all cosmetic. So, unless you absolutely need everything...

With one major caveat. DLC (new areas like Hrothgar and Orisinium) are going to be crown purchasable, OR open to people with an active sub. Sort of like how DCUO gives legendary subs full access to all their DLC packs, so long as they remain subbed.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Even worse, SWTOR would lock away a single item you wanted in a huge "box" full of other items that you had to buy...and many of those only gave you a CHANCE at getting the item you wanted, not a guarantee that you would get it once you handed them 20 bucks.

Yeah, I remember when STO started gating ships behind lockboxes. Not happiness.

MornaBaine wrote: »

So not only do you get to pay a sub just to have the same game you used to but now you'll STILL have to pay a LOT more to the cash store to get the customization items that SHOULD have been free and a regular part of the game under the regular subscription model. I guarantee you that they are NOT going to give us a barber shop for which we can pay in-game gold to change your hairstyle available only to subscribers. No, they are going to charge you real additional money for every single new hairstyle they add. Social clothes for the Disguise slot? Same thing. You'll pay per outfit. The oft-mentioned Senche tiger mount? Oh yeah, it'll be in the cash shop. And it'll be AT LEAST 15 bucks just like the horse they have in there now. Probably more. Housing? And all the things to put in it? Prepare to take out a loan. The ability for vampires to hide their appearance? Paul Sage will personally ensure that it's at least 20 bucks just for me. Ability to completely change your appearance via a return to the character creation screen? Yep there will be an awesome wizard you can pay 20 bucks to for the privilege. Per character. Name change? Sure. Ten bucks please.

So, yeah, that's speculation.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Right now the only thing that is even making me CONSIDER staying is my freaking guild. But they implement this the way SWTOR did (or Divines forbid, even worse) I'm out.

Look, honestly, with TOR? That was the most petulant F2P transition I've ever seen. And the one from Star Trek really screwed me over.

With The Old Republic, you could practically see Bioware flipping the players off. The sub numbers tanked so hard, the game was in danger of shutting down, and the free to play transition was the developers throwing a tantrum at everyone's expense. "How dare you not love our masterfully crafted story that's at least as good as all this fanfiction we ripped off to get here! We'll show you!"

What the Twitch stream stressed is, if you choose not to sub, you're not going to be locked out of content. The cash shop is for cosmetic and "convenience" items only.

Yeah, the Guar mounts and Senche pets are explicitly going there. We'll know next month what the pricing scheme will look like, and then we can decide if it's too sharp. There was also a mention that the 12 month loyalty reward will be a mount, so it's possible that will actually be the Senche, we just don't know yet.

The convenience items are level scaling health/stamina/magicka potions (no clue if they're tripots or separate potions) repair kits (just like you can buy in game with gold) or packs of soulgems (again, just like you can buy from mystics in game now.)

Account services like name changes will probably be in. Though, the industry norm is between $2.50 and $5 for that. It's another example where TOR looks down it's nose at you and flips you off.

That said, the mounts probably will be around 15 bucks. Just judging by the one that's already in there. And, we don't know what 1500 Crowns actually equals. If the mounts are 1500, then that means you could potentially snap one up every month. If they're 4500, and 1500 = 5 bucks... then...

Thing is we don't know. I wouldn't point to TOR and say we're automatically going that route. That is a worst case scenario.

It's true that I am basically going off what I experienced in TOR. But with the way ZOS has treated its players so far and they way they have mismanaged SO MANY things I don't think I'm wildly out of line to feat that pretty much the same thing is going to happen here. I've gone from my finger hovering over the cancel button to taking a wait and see approach but I am reallllllly pessimistic about this whole thing. I HOPE they will prove me wrong and release a truly inclusive and transparent preview of what we will see in the cash shop RIGHT AWAY. Like, THIS MONTH.

The difference is Bioware (and to an extent EA) has actual contempt for the customers. ZoS hasn't had the perfect track record, but I can't point at any of their mistakes and say they were caused by malice.

TOR is, hands down, the worst F2P transition. It was designed, explicitly, to screw over the players as hard as possible, and force them to sub up, AND pay through the nose.

I've seen pretty malicious F2P transitions. Trust me TOR is the extreme outlier here.

Also, yes, the crown shop is slated to be on PTS with the 1.6 update. That should be out next week. It's ZoS time, but we will see what's coming pretty soon.

I will be very interested to know what the "crowns" I'm going to be "given" will actually buy me. My suspicion is that the things that are really desirable are always going to be enough out of reach that you'll have to buy more crowns to get them.

Here's hoping I'm wrong. And I still really feel that everything in the cash shop should ALSO be available in game via in game gold.

You're not the only one who really wants to see what the prices are going to look like. But, until this hits PTS, we won't have any idea.

If individual costumes are 250 crowns, mounts are 1500, and costume packs are 500, but there's 6 mounts, 30 costumes, and 10 sets... you're right, you can't buy everything without paying through the nose, but at the same time, I wouldn't feel like those were unfair prices. You're not getting everything, but you can pick off the menu for stuff that looks neat and or fun.

Now, if each Costume is 1k, and each set is 2k, and the mounts are 2.5k, then we can complain. But, right now, we don't know.

As to everything being available in game for gold? No. For one simple reason. It is WAY too easy to justify Pay to Win items in the shop when they can also be obtained through in game currency. Which is, incidentally, what your favorite game does. TOR has no problems with screwing players over because you could go digging for anything they release on the auction house. Star Trek Online is the same way. Sure, you could grind dilithium until your eyes bleed, and in 3 months have enough, or you can pay them 50 bucks for that new ship pack that "clearly outclasses" anything available for free in the game.

Trust me, it's far better that ESO keeps the Crown items completely separate from the gold economy.

Samadhi

MornaBaine wrote: »

... BUT once I HAD subbed I quickly realized that even with the "extra" cartel coins that were thrown my way there was ABSOLUTELY NO FREAKING WAY I could possibly afford all the things I wanted in the cash store and, OF COURSE, there was no way to earn those items in the game with in-game credits. ...

So not only do you get to pay a sub just to have the same game you used to but now you'll STILL have to pay a LOT more to the cash store to get the customization items that SHOULD have been free and a regular part of the game under the regular subscription model. ...

This is precisely how cash shops are meant to work.
"Free" crowns are in no way meant to help you, they are meant to incentivize you to spend more. This is similar to how pure f2p companies will frequently offer "bonus" cash shop tokens for buying larger sums of cash shop tokens at a given time; pricing is generally calculated so that the most desirable objects are only available via certain cash benchmarks (ie: a company may put an item on "sale" for 25 dollars, then have credit card payments available in a 10,20,50 dollar model with 4 dollars extra as a bonus for buying 20 instead of 10; the goal is not simply to force a person to pay for 20 + 10 to afford the 25 dollar item, but to try and convince them to pay at least 20 + 20 so they get the "bonus" on both payments).

The fallback defense is that none of the items in a cash shop are needed to experience the game, while shying away from the fact that they are needed to get the most out of the game.

On the flipside, at least you are not a PvP addict who keeps out of PvE; in that case you would find yourself paying a subscription + daily/weekly charges to keep yourself stocked on Soul Gems and Potions that your character does not otherwise generate through content.

Darkintellect

Stonesthrow wrote: »

For the people who are calling this the last straw and now they really, really, REALLY are finally going to quit… could you all just leave already and stop trying to get people to leave with you?

It's sad.

This right here is the best response to highlight the mentality of many of these people. It's human nature to want other people to share your views or your opinions because it further validates that thing you believe in. It's also a staple-point around religious people who try to "spread the word" or gain followers.

That sense of "followership" to your opinion or cause is honestly a better feeling than anything to these people and although it's more subconscious than anything, it still exists.

"I don't like something, so I will make other people see what I see and think the way I think so I feel better about myself."

It's childish, pathetic and trite and most responsible, intelligent adults see through it.

Surragard

I can't imagine a worse transition than what TOR did, even if they were trying. It actually already sounds like they're tryijg to avoid that since we're not seeing whole areas of the game cut out or the like like LOTRO did (although to be fair they also dumped you with a much heavier initial deposit of Turbine Points than they are here). I am worried about the barber option and other cosmetic slots. We have been told for a long time that this is in development and I will feel ripped off it it becomes a cash shop item. The dye system was a start but I'd like to see them follow through with the rest. I always expected it to cost some gold but I'm not looking to drop cash or crowns on it. There also seems to be no way to earn crowns if you are not subbed which means you can't even play the slow game.

Samadhi

Wonder if the ZOS employees that still play this game will be subject to crown shop charges, or if they get all the new digital goods for their characters for free.