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Bows should do Siege Damage

  • KBKB
    KBKB
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    DDuke wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Columba wrote: »
    Get decent armor. Running around in light armor with no crit protection is no way to go through life, son.

    Light Armor with 5 impen holding block they still hot for 500 with a heal debuff.

    Oh noes... evil bow users deal 460DPS on your light armour character? The nerve on them!
    They shouldn't deal more than 3% of your health, because block=magma armour. NERF!






    I'm being sarcastic btw


    What's crazy is I've used your build previously on a NB and you of all people should know how strong bow is currently.

    Let's take talk away from bow being a NB only weapon because honestly every class uses it and bow is used the most bow for a reason. Heavy attacks hit for insane damage along with venom arrow. Bow does what multiple class skills do all in one with an insane range.

    Hopefully 1.6 takes care of these issues.

    Bow (note: not snipe spam) is strong, but so are many other things in the game.

    DKs tanking/killing 20 people, infinite resource builds that you cant kill without a similar build (fights take 15-30mins, it's basicly who gets bored first at that point), block casting/permablock...

    I don't agree with being able to "one shot" people as it doesn't really take much skill, but currently it is the only way of killing someone without playing the "resource game".

    Give me counters to heal/dmg shield spam, a way to get past permablock and/or CC that does what it's supposed to do (crowd control, not drain stamina), and I'm happy to see TTK increased.

    To put it more elaborately: players should die (and not in 1-3 seconds) when they run out of health, not when they run out of stamina and/or magicka.

    What's wrong with playing the resource game? The idea of the resource game is that people can defend themselves if they have resources... Should they not be able to defend themselves?

    I could go into personal reasons why I dislike that playstyle, but I'm afraid people would just get offended & ignore everything else I have to say, so I'll skip that part.

    I'm not saying people who like to play that way shouldn't be able to do so, but it should not be the only way to play competitively, and being able to play super defensively should come at the cost of offense (which it currently doesn't).

    If people want a pure resource fight (who runs out of stamina/magicka first, instead of who runs out of health first), then they should fight people with a similar defensive playstyle. In other fights against players with different playstyle, there should be more factors than your magicka/stamina bar.
    That's how you create diverse & interesting PvP.

    You can easily have heals/dmg shields on one bar (or both), and still deal just as much damage as the person who is trying to get past the block/shield+heal spam.

    Couple this with the fact that defensive abilities are more cost effective than offensive ones (you get 1k+ shield or heal for less cost than it takes to deal equal amount of damage), and the fact that they prevent crits altogether (A bug? An intended feature? No one knows), are spammable and have no cast time or any kind of counter, and you'll see the issue.

    Or maybe you don't, and you'll just tell me to slot a damage shield/heal and play in exact same way as over 90% of the population (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/144002/do-you-have-a-heal-or-a-dmg-shield-slotted-on-your-hotbar/p1).
    Let me guess, you guys are sorcs, I can tell by the whine in your typing from clear down in Texas.

    Plus, only a sorc would have the audacity to QQ about bows when they have CF, EF and Streak.

    Did you really just compare snipe and crystal fragments?

    Crystal Fragments actually has better base damage (meaning higher out of stealth damage) than Snipe, and its cast time is being reduced in 1.6.

    Just saying :neutral_face:

    Well you cam gank to avoid the recourse game but I digress on that issue....


    But crystal fragments is extremely easy to see and you cant cast it from stealth. When it actually hits your right its great but it rarely does if you cast it.

    You can cast shards from stealth...
    Stare into the void and the void stares back

    What would Magnum PI do?

    1.1k CP - All the classes and variants.
  • Cody
    Cody
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    DDuke wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Columba wrote: »
    Get decent armor. Running around in light armor with no crit protection is no way to go through life, son.

    Light Armor with 5 impen holding block they still hot for 500 with a heal debuff.

    Oh noes... evil bow users deal 460DPS on your light armour character? The nerve on them!
    They shouldn't deal more than 3% of your health, because block=magma armour. NERF!






    I'm being sarcastic btw


    What's crazy is I've used your build previously on a NB and you of all people should know how strong bow is currently.

    Let's take talk away from bow being a NB only weapon because honestly every class uses it and bow is used the most bow for a reason. Heavy attacks hit for insane damage along with venom arrow. Bow does what multiple class skills do all in one with an insane range.

    Hopefully 1.6 takes care of these issues.

    Bow (note: not snipe spam) is strong, but so are many other things in the game.

    DKs tanking/killing 20 people, infinite resource builds that you cant kill without a similar build (fights take 15-30mins, it's basicly who gets bored first at that point), block casting/permablock...

    I don't agree with being able to "one shot" people as it doesn't really take much skill, but currently it is the only way of killing someone without playing the "resource game".

    Give me counters to heal/dmg shield spam, a way to get past permablock and/or CC that does what it's supposed to do (crowd control, not drain stamina), and I'm happy to see TTK increased.

    To put it more elaborately: players should die (and not in 1-3 seconds) when they run out of health, not when they run out of stamina and/or magicka.

    What's wrong with playing the resource game? The idea of the resource game is that people can defend themselves if they have resources... Should they not be able to defend themselves?

    I could go into personal reasons why I dislike that playstyle, but I'm afraid people would just get offended & ignore everything else I have to say, so I'll skip that part.

    I'm not saying people who like to play that way shouldn't be able to do so, but it should not be the only way to play competitively, and being able to play super defensively should come at the cost of offense (which it currently doesn't).

    If people want a pure resource fight (who runs out of stamina/magicka first, instead of who runs out of health first), then they should fight people with a similar defensive playstyle. In other fights against players with different playstyle, there should be more factors than your magicka/stamina bar.
    That's how you create diverse & interesting PvP.

    You can easily have heals/dmg shields on one bar (or both), and still deal just as much damage as the person who is trying to get past the block/shield+heal spam.

    Couple this with the fact that defensive abilities are more cost effective than offensive ones (you get 1k+ shield or heal for less cost than it takes to deal equal amount of damage), and the fact that they prevent crits altogether (A bug? An intended feature? No one knows), are spammable and have no cast time or any kind of counter, and you'll see the issue.

    Or maybe you don't, and you'll just tell me to slot a damage shield/heal and play in exact same way as over 90% of the population (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/144002/do-you-have-a-heal-or-a-dmg-shield-slotted-on-your-hotbar/p1).
    Let me guess, you guys are sorcs, I can tell by the whine in your typing from clear down in Texas.

    Plus, only a sorc would have the audacity to QQ about bows when they have CF, EF and Streak.

    Did you really just compare snipe and crystal fragments?

    Crystal Fragments actually has better base damage (meaning higher out of stealth damage) than Snipe, and its cast time is being reduced in 1.6.

    Just saying :neutral_face:

    I am with you on the ridiculous perma block cast crap that goes on in PvP. Players, as it is now, have access to both high offense AND high defense. One should not have both, one should have to choose between the two.

    As it is now, due to block casting and damage shield stacking, one can almost never lose their defense unless they just stand there and let the enemy whale on them. Defensive players are given way to much advantage in this game with little-no consequence. It needs to change.

    Let people laugh all they want; they will be the ones who will be laughed at when balance is finally achieved(or as close as it gets anyway)
    Edited by Cody on January 21, 2015 6:00AM
  • suycyco
    suycyco
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    Columba wrote: »
    Get decent armor. Running around in light armor with no crit protection is no way to go through life, son.

    Light Armor with 5 impen holding block they still hot for 500 with a heal debuff.

    Single target healing debuff don't apply on a blocking toon. Only aoe healing debuff apply since magical aoe are not blockable for now (and it'll change to 1.6)

    But you know what as a 50% arrow 50 % 2H player I would agree to decrease the lethal arrow base damage if they allow the healing debuff pass trough block, but if they do so I hear already from here the cries of all the permablocker that can't heal anymore because they have a 100% heal debuff (from two different source) permanently.
  • Nacario
    Nacario
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    Tripwyr wrote: »
    Ideally the healing debuff effect should be removed from the game or substantially reduced (15-20% tops), and healing should be reduced accordingly. This would ensure healers are reasonably possible to kill without a bow while bringing bows to a reasonable level of power compared to other skills.

    Secondly, the projectile arc (or projectile travel time) needs to be significantly reduced. The ability to cast several snipes before the first lands is ridiculous. I continue getting hit by snipes even after 2 seconds behind a wall.

    But u can only cast 1 snipe before the first lands. I wonder what 'several' means to you, 3 4 5? Nice try though.
  • iseko
    iseko
    ✭✭✭✭
    Using a bow is like using a glass cannon mate. No matter what class they are, if they use a bow they go down FAST. Single target high dps. Which means if you are fighting 1v2 your bow is pretty much useless. And I only get killed by bow users if they got the drop on me. No matter if I am playing with my sorc or temp. You better kill me in 2 seconds because if you can't you are screwed. Purge, shield skills, streak/shield bash, start killing. It is not that hard.

    And in larger scale pvp a bow is as annoying as getting a crystal fragment to the face. Even more embarassing if it is your own crystal fragment (damn you DK reflective scales!) :P.

    Or you know... Dark flare. 500+ dps easy with healing debuff. With the added bonus of being able to wear a shield while casting. So you are not sacrificing defense for offense.

    Offcourse there are always people with builds that use bows/ skills more effectively then how I just described. Nothing is black and white. But in my opinion this is a general overview that is correct in a lot of cases since they buffed snipe.

    NB gankers are a *** though. Fighting a DK tank 1v1 and suddenly a nb does their typical combo from stealth.
  • filmoretub17_ESO
    filmoretub17_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    They got a nice combat system. I'm not saying its perfect but if they nerf bow they gotta nerf quite a few things to match it. Yes snipe is annoying, but you need to have the right amount of armor to counter it. You just want to Leroy Jenkins light armor and run around expecting to teleport and stun everyone while blocking. If snipe got nerfed then everyone would be DK's and Sorcs.

    And the guy who is hitting you with this massive amount of damage will also take a massive amount of damage when he is hit. Because in order to put out that much damage he has to sacrifice his protective abilities.
    Edited by filmoretub17_ESO on January 21, 2015 12:40PM
  • kijima
    kijima
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    KBKB wrote: »
    You can cast shards from stealth...

    Hit's like a freight train too.
    Been here since Round IV Beta - You'd think I'd be half reasonable at this game by now...

    A'rmata - Nord Sorc Tank (yeah, sounds crazy but it works)
  • sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO
    DDuke wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Columba wrote: »
    Get decent armor. Running around in light armor with no crit protection is no way to go through life, son.

    Light Armor with 5 impen holding block they still hot for 500 with a heal debuff.

    Oh noes... evil bow users deal 460DPS on your light armour character? The nerve on them!
    They shouldn't deal more than 3% of your health, because block=magma armour. NERF!






    I'm being sarcastic btw


    What's crazy is I've used your build previously on a NB and you of all people should know how strong bow is currently.

    Let's take talk away from bow being a NB only weapon because honestly every class uses it and bow is used the most bow for a reason. Heavy attacks hit for insane damage along with venom arrow. Bow does what multiple class skills do all in one with an insane range.

    Hopefully 1.6 takes care of these issues.

    Bow (note: not snipe spam) is strong, but so are many other things in the game.

    DKs tanking/killing 20 people, infinite resource builds that you cant kill without a similar build (fights take 15-30mins, it's basicly who gets bored first at that point), block casting/permablock...

    I don't agree with being able to "one shot" people as it doesn't really take much skill, but currently it is the only way of killing someone without playing the "resource game".

    Give me counters to heal/dmg shield spam, a way to get past permablock and/or CC that does what it's supposed to do (crowd control, not drain stamina), and I'm happy to see TTK increased.

    To put it more elaborately: players should die (and not in 1-3 seconds) when they run out of health, not when they run out of stamina and/or magicka.

    What's wrong with playing the resource game? The idea of the resource game is that people can defend themselves if they have resources... Should they not be able to defend themselves?
    Let me guess, you guys are sorcs, I can tell by the whine in your typing from clear down in Texas.

    Plus, only a sorc would have the audacity to QQ about bows when they have CF, EF and Streak.

    Did you really just compare snipe and crystal fragments?

    Yeah... yes IT did.
    "You are the challenger here, after all. So to you goes the courtesy of the first blow. I'm waiting...."

    ( Attacks you first )

    Article XIII of the 13th Amendment
    "1.) If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, receive, or retain, any title of nobility or honor, or shall, without the consent of congress, accept and retain any present, pension, office or emolument of any kind whatever, from any emperor, king, prince, or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them. "
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