Are all the Buff servers belong to PvPer's now?

Gankimus

Greetings to all honorable warriors who fight with bravery in Cyrodiil. This one salutes you for your nobleness of spirit, strength of character and glorious feats of nerve and valor on the sisyphian field. Bright moons shine upon you all.

Gankimus is restive and unruly, he moves where the winds of war carry him and he has seen many battles across many servers. In his travels Gank has recently noticed that no server is sacred. The old power bases are crumbling, cracks are appearing even in the mighty Blue walls of Chillrend. Superior numbers, excellent response time, valiant effort and strong tactics were unable to preserve the Empress Kamikaze from an unseating. This one salutes her for her honor and bravery in her long reign, she is a mighty and worthy opponent with valiant companions. This one congratulates her determined opposition in the Ebonheart Pact, they showed grit and resolve as well as supreme organization and pragmatism. Gank and his merry band of killers were pleased to be opportunistic and predatory, we enjoyed very much snipping at the fringes of this great conflict to capture our share of the spoils. This one loves scroll runs and we look forward to more epic battles across all the servers!

This one thinks the new paradigm that develops is beautiful and exciting, there is a certain symmetry and grace that arises from chaos and uncertainty which favors the adventurous bold. Hail the new age of PvP that dawns! Warriors, wipe away the cobwebs of the buffs and sing new songs of glorious battle. Let rage the cauldron of war across all of the servers of Cyrodiil, let no place be safe from the flames!

This one solicits your thoughts on the matter.

f047ys3v3n

For my part I hate it and worse I hate that I have to hate it.

It has been a long time now that PVP buffs have effectively made useless 3 of the 4 campaigns by making them dull buff campaigns with no real fighting. This was not fair to PVP players who, in my opinion as a PVE guy, must certainly be a patient and long suffering lot to put up with the lag and gross class imbalance of that horse simulator.

Now we have a situation where coordinated and well specked PVP guilds have entered the PVE buff campaigns and proven that a well coordinated small group of DK vamps can easily either beat whoever straggles in the door or outlast any well organized and larger guild of PVE players to dominate with much smaller population a buff campaign most of the time. Furthermore, this is a very good way to farm for emp since the campaign will flip back all on it's own the moment you leave. All good and fun to the PVP players, all the noobs you can kill and emps you can crown.

The situation for a PVE player is a bit more grim now as the PVP buffs are of such magnitude that they are a deciding factor in weekly PVE leaderboards and sometimes in content completion. AD PVE players have certainly suffered greatly the loss of Haderous and I think this week EP PVE players may feel the pain as well as their PVP players are in Haderous and their buff campain has proven even more squishy. From the standpoint of a PVE player there is no good solution to this as if you come in with your endgame guild and roll the campaign back as I did with a number of endgame PVE players last week the campain will turn back before your Sanctum run is done because the PVP players you pushed back are more than happy to stay around to take everything back when you go do what it is you want to do.

The bottom line is that for a very long time PVP buffs ruined 3 out of 4 servers for PVP players. Now they are unbalancing weekly leader boards for PVE players. This is not fair to either group of people and I do think that we have two primarily separate groups of people. The buffs have to end for the betterment of all players.

Huntler

A RPer? GET HIM.

Galalin

I have one comment... Death to all buff campaigns!!! Its PvP ffs

This crap about needing buffs is jibber. I vote take em all away from PvE PERIOD!!! Then all the PvE's can compete equally and those of us that chose to PvP can stop listening to the massive QQ over "mah buffs"

Until then stop the QQ... we dont go to PvE land and QQ all over your forums about our PvP specs not being viable in PvE etc... cause we know wtf its more difficult.

The only PvEer's i respect in cyrodiil are the ones legitimately trying to learn how to PvP and contribute to a stonger campaign. Much respect to the few of you i see from all factions and campaigns doing so. Its a tough road but keep at it

As for "mah buff babies" may you all get stuck on a pebble while trying to ride away on your horse... that will learn ya.

DK Scrub out

Gankimus

Huntler wrote: »

A RPer? GET HIM.

Lol, this one isn't role playing. Read Gank's signature, this one is very skilled at ironic pretention.

Lava_Croft

Who else besides PvP players should be campaigns belong to?

ElfFromSpace

The game world should belong to ALL players. And the game makers are responsible for trying to create an environment where all players can enjoy the game.

Right now this is lacking. PVP players can't enjoy Thornblade due to lag and long queus. PVE players find their trainings and events disrupted when they lose buffs. Some players are good enough to not need, but other players who are practicing find much content to be daunting when faced at a handicapp.

I see players state "PVP buffs should not apply outside Cyrodil" but then too many wouldn't bother with PVP at all. If nothing else, all the recent stirring, has driven a lot more people to take another look at PVP.

I think the best overall solution would be to have the PVP buffs that are earned based on participation and, once earned, are maintained for long enough to be enjoyed. If PVE players had to jump into Cyrodil, flip the server, grab the scrolls, get emperor, and get up to at least campaign teir 1 every week to get their buffs, you can bet they'd do it, and they'd be a lot less discouraged if the PVP players ran in and flipped everything back the next morning before all the PVE events even took place. I'd personally rather see under-dog buffs applied within the campaigns, and the motivation to keep the scrolls and keeps would be better end of campaign rewards. I got the 3rd teir reward last campaign, and I can earn better loot farming a public dungeon for a half hour.

Current Scenario: A certain trouble maker tells a restive and unruly guild leader that it's plain old SHAMEFUL to have been playing 9 months and not even attempted Aetherian Archive once. They proceed to get their guild out in force on Tuesday and stomp all over any opposition completely securing all buffs. They then pass out, happy, and wake up the next day to drag said unruly PVPer stam based nightblade into AA. Meanwhile EP and DC come back for revenge, notice the total lack of any real defense from AD, wipe the server and the training group is left with a bunch of unruly noobcake stam-based nightblades with no buffs in AA. I think everyone knows how this story will end... Unfortunately it can easily lead to the PVPers not bothering to try the trials because failing is no fun, and the PVEers to not bother with Cyrodil because the buffs are too tenuous.

WebBull

If they want to get rid of lag, they should take all the PvE aspects completely out of Cyrodiil.

ElfFromSpace

True. Last time I was in Haderus while red was stomping all over AD and bragging about how badass they were since AD had more pop... there was 1-2 entire guild groups attempting to help newbies out by doing skyshard runs. The whole thing was pretty pathetic

AriBoh

I think buff servers just encourage people who will never get emp in a 'real' campaign to emp swap by nightcapping. If they removed former emp skills I bet half those that invade a buff server would never bother with them outside of boredom.
On topic - No I think most buff server are still dominated by mostly PVE players or those who are occasional PVPers.

Cody

Death to buff campaigns. they are a plague upon PvP, and any player that thinks they need PvP buffs to do PvE content is deluded.

If there is a guild that will not do a trial until they have their precious PvP buffs, and are willing to gate camp(with the emp gate camping) to defend those buffs, then those players are absolute garbage.


That is how it is. I and every other EP player that has been on haderus for... who knows how long at this point, will continue to liberate haderus from dominion control. When the dominion has proven themselves worthy of the buffs, they will then be able to have them for PvE. until then, gate camping and nightcapping wont do squat.

I imagine its the same for chillrend and Azuras star.

Galalin

This crap of NEEDING PvP buffs to do AA is just that.... crap.

As for the AD buff babies on haderus or EP on azura or DC on chill... im not singling out any faction. Its not even the fact that you flood into cyrodiil to try and reclaim buffs (the ap is welcome and fights are interesting)

The only hats off i give is to the guilds on all servers fighting day in and day out with or without buffs as well as the new players coming from PvE to PvP to make the campaigns better.

Its the buff baby posts on the forums over and over complaining about the fighting on PvP servers!!! Thats right they are not "buff" servers... i really hope every campaign becomes competitive enough that you all learn how to manage your uber tough PvE content without your precious buffs.

DK Scrub out

WraithAzraiel

I'm actually surprised buff servers are still a thing. Didn't they say back during 1.4 when dyes came out that they were doing away with buffs carrying over into PvE?

Gankimus

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

Current Scenario: A certain trouble maker tells a restive and unruly guild leader that it's plain old SHAMEFUL to have been playing 9 months and not even attempted Aetherian Archive once. They proceed to get their guild out in force on Tuesday and stomp all over any opposition completely securing all buffs. They then pass out, happy, and wake up the next day to drag said unruly PVPer stam based nightblade into AA. Meanwhile EP and DC come back for revenge, notice the total lack of any real defense from AD, wipe the server and the training group is left with a bunch of unruly noobcake stam-based nightblades with no buffs in AA. I think everyone knows how this story will end... Unfortunately it can easily lead to the PVPers not bothering to try the trials because failing is no fun, and the PVEers to not bother with Cyrodil because the buffs are too tenuous.

Gankimus cannot be certain, but he thinks he smells the distinct iron scent of sarcasm in the air... or perhaps it is a sarchasm, which is the gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the recipient who doesn't get it.

ElfFromSpace

Cody: When and how COULD a faction "prove" themselves worthy in your mind? Do you believe that the EP PVE players on Azura's are any stronger or more deserving? Actually at this point it seems to me that the AD groups have gotten a lot stronger, largely because of being forced to defend while being double teamed for weeks on end.

Galadin: I don't think anyone has said the buffs are necessary for PVE (unless saddled with a bunch of PVPer noobs or other inexperienced players who aren't built right for PVE.. which is where I usually find myself preferring to help on on trainings) The important thing to consider, if you appreciate the PvE players coming into PvP.... how long would you keep going back to defend a buff if each time you did it, your hard work was lost again before you could enjoy the fruits of your labor. Having the servers TOO competitive and chaotic will mean there is no reward for doing it. Make the servers better by spreading your efforts around, I truly hope and applaud if you were part of the dethroning on Chillrend this week!

Gankimus

Gank is thrilled! Insults are flying, aspersions are cast, gauntlets thrown, beds made and lines drawn. This one has sand betwixt his toes, he has his noobcake and he eats it too!

Cody

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

Cody: When and how COULD a faction "prove" themselves worthy in your mind? Do you believe that the EP PVE players on Azura's are any stronger or more deserving? Actually at this point it seems to me that the AD groups have gotten a lot stronger, largely because of being forced to defend while being double teamed for weeks on end.

Galadin: I don't think anyone has said the buffs are necessary for PVE (unless saddled with a bunch of PVPer noobs or other inexperienced players who aren't built right for PVE.. which is where I usually find myself preferring to help on on trainings) The important thing to consider, if you appreciate the PvE players coming into PvP.... how long would you keep going back to defend a buff if each time you did it, your hard work was lost again before you could enjoy the fruits of your labor. Having the servers TOO competitive and chaotic will mean there is no reward for doing it. Make the servers better by spreading your efforts around, I truly hope and applaud if you were part of the dethroning on Chillrend this week!

When the emperor resorts to gate camping, I view the group he was with and him as pure garbage.

As soon as all the AD groups that are responsible for hogging the server learn to stop being selfish and to stop ruining the server for everyone else, I will stop talking s*** about them. Its not even really a matter of skill, its honestly a matter of certain people being selfish a****** and making everyone else look back. Same goes to any buff server.

ThyIronFist

Nothing better than going to an AD buff campaign, paint the map red, wait until the angry PvE milkdrinkers start coming, and slaughter them all day.

ElfFromSpace

Gankimus wrote: »

Gank is thrilled! Insults are flying, aspersions are cast, gauntlets thrown, beds made and lines drawn. This one has sand betwixt his toes, he has his noobcake and he eats it too!

Noobcakes are made of moon sugar and khajit fur.

Gankimus

ThyIronFist wrote: »

Nothing better than going to an AD buff campaign, paint the map red, wait until the angry PvE milkdrinkers start coming, and slaughter them all day.

Once, Gankimus was the toughest kitten in the third grade, he was very proud and felt quite strong and important... then his mother reminded him he was in the fifth grade and some how this one felt smaller than he actually was. A strange thing, but this one does not judge, we must all find our pride somewhere...

lostavalon

no campaigns belong to anyone, if u want these buffs fight for them, the buffs atm arnt even that great cause of the small numbers we work off ie: spell power ect best buff is honestly the 200+ hp u get at v14, maybe when 1.6 lands and the factors are multiplyed by 10 then i would see 5% buff worth it... but other than that its been fun to have pvp outside of thorn

ElfFromSpace

I don't know who was gatecamping, haven't observed it or participated in it, nor do any of the players that I know support it, even though I've fallen victim to it from other factions. It's funny how players always point to the sad actions of a few minority and use it as an excuse to lower themselves to things they can't justify otherwise. With as much as I saw EP and DC blatantly working together to team up on a single faction, I can't be surprised that some AD players used the same tactics to point and say "They started it! They were jerkfaces first so now we can justify doing anything we feel like"

ToRelax

To make all factions in PvE leaderboards equally competitive it would be good to remove PvP buffs from PvE. So even if we say with the buffs you are about 5% stronger, that would mean 75% of the PvP-campaigns (not counting non vet, trials aren't for non vets anyway) are pretty much dead.

I find it patethic if PvEers think they have to defend "their" buffs in PvE and happily take over a buff server to slaughter them all. I don't go there to farm emp, I go there to destroy the fun for everyone trying to maintain a buff server, and revive that server.

AaronMB

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

I don't know who was gatecamping, haven't observed it or participated in it, nor do any of the players that I know support it, even though I've fallen victim to it from other factions. It's funny how players always point to the sad actions of a few minority and use it as an excuse to lower themselves to things they can't justify otherwise. With as much as I saw EP and DC blatantly working together to team up on a single faction, I can't be surprised that some AD players used the same tactics to point and say "They started it! They were jerkfaces first so now we can justify doing anything we feel like"

Indeed.

It pleases me that the folk that I enjoy PVPing with advocate against this sort of behavior.

Domander

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

For my part I hate it and worse I hate that I have to hate it.

It has been a long time now that PVP buffs have effectively made useless 3 of the 4 campaigns by making them dull buff campaigns with no real fighting. This was not fair to PVP players who, in my opinion as a PVE guy, must certainly be a patient and long suffering lot to put up with the lag and gross class imbalance of that horse simulator.

Now we have a situation where coordinated and well specked PVP guilds have entered the PVE buff campaigns and proven that a well coordinated small group of DK vamps can easily either beat whoever straggles in the door or outlast any well organized and larger guild of PVE players to dominate with much smaller population a buff campaign most of the time. Furthermore, this is a very good way to farm for emp since the campaign will flip back all on it's own the moment you leave. All good and fun to the PVP players, all the noobs you can kill and emps you can crown.

The situation for a PVE player is a bit more grim now as the PVP buffs are of such magnitude that they are a deciding factor in weekly PVE leaderboards and sometimes in content completion. AD PVE players have certainly suffered greatly the loss of Haderous and I think this week EP PVE players may feel the pain as well as their PVP players are in Haderous and their buff campain has proven even more squishy. From the standpoint of a PVE player there is no good solution to this as if you come in with your endgame guild and roll the campaign back as I did with a number of endgame PVE players last week the campain will turn back before your Sanctum run is done because the PVP players you pushed back are more than happy to stay around to take everything back when you go do what it is you want to do.

The bottom line is that for a very long time PVP buffs ruined 3 out of 4 servers for PVP players. Now they are unbalancing weekly leader boards for PVE players. This is not fair to either group of people and I do think that we have two primarily separate groups of people. The buffs have to end for the betterment of all players.

All your buffs are belong to us

Cody

ElfFromSpace wrote: »

I don't know who was gatecamping, haven't observed it or participated in it, nor do any of the players that I know support it, even though I've fallen victim to it from other factions. It's funny how players always point to the sad actions of a few minority and use it as an excuse to lower themselves to things they can't justify otherwise. With as much as I saw EP and DC blatantly working together to team up on a single faction, I can't be surprised that some AD players used the same tactics to point and say "They started it! They were jerkfaces first so now we can justify doing anything we feel like"

I never gate camp:/ How can I lower myself to something and justify it if I never do it? nor did I say all of AD did it. I said the AD GROUPS RESPONSIBLE. If I came out as accusing all of AD, then im sorry.

If there are any EP in imortali and other guilds(or loners) that gate camp, then they are scum just like that AD emp and his group was.

phreatophile

Close 1 campaign and obliterate the notion of an "owned" buff server.

Do away with PVE bonuses entirely and fewer people will care about PVP.

Add 1 more campaign and institutionalize buff servers for everyone.

All good options, with things to recommend them that players will adapt too. As long as they do something different from now.

Eglath

This has been said so many times before and yet ppl are still arguing over it. Buff servers are bad, and they need to disappear. How this is suppose to be done it's different story, my experience with ZOS says that they rarely listen to our suggestions, so no point in arguing, they know we hate buff servers, and we want buffs to no longer apply to pvp.

Columba

lol my heart bleeds at the thought of the pver's losing their ill gotten buffs.

Lava_Croft

Columba wrote: »

lol my heart bleeds at the thought of the pver's losing their ill gotten buffs.

While they might feel wrongly entitled to have PvP buffs, calling them 'ill gotten' is just nonsense. All they did was home to a buff campaign, nothing 'ill gotten' about that.

Yusuf

Death to buffcampaigns!

If you can't beat your pve-content without them, you're just not good enough.
I had 2 smooth runs of Sanctum without them yesterday