AP Farming

Firellight

Cyrodiil should not be about gathering AP 24/7, and has very little meaning to the average person's life, imo. Call me casual, but AP farming is insane. Thoughts?

Tripwyr

It is currently the only metric by which you can progress your own character. This will change in 1.6, but it stands until then.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

No one needs to farm AP. I mostly PvP for the sake of it, and the AP just racks up. It's a ncie side effect to measure how "effective" you are.

saintmurray

To improve your rank or to move up the leader boards you need to farm AP. However farming AP is fun

Eglath

The funniest thing is, that AP doesn't give you much, only thing is leaderboard position, which determines your reward, and that's it. You don't need to get 200k AP daily to buy enough siege and rocks, yet ppl farm it like crazy. i'm guilty of that myslelf, while having close to 2mil AP I still go to azuras for more

Etaniel

Farming AP can be incredibly fun, people do whatever they find fun in this game, that's it.

Cody

=PVP

loki547

Tripwyr wrote: »

It is currently the only metric by which you can progress your own character. This will change in 1.6, but it stands until then.

Everyone: Tripwyr is Comic Book Guy
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Lzyd91NFx-Y"

Galalin

Eglath wrote: »

The funniest thing is, that AP doesn't give you much, only thing is leaderboard position, which determines your reward, and that's it. You don't need to get 200k AP daily to buy enough siege and rocks, yet ppl farm it like crazy. i'm guilty of that myslelf, while having close to 2mil AP I still go to azuras for more

I beg to differ... you can make a lot of gold off AP. Buying and selling PvP gear... just saying

DK Scrub out

Jaerlach

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

No one needs to farm AP. I mostly PvP for the sake of it, and the AP just racks up. It's a ncie side effect to measure how "effective" you are.

A lot of people AP farm because they don't yet have rank 10 assault/suppport, which requires you to be alliance rank 25, aka 8.8million AP.

Especially the first 2.5m AP is very important, as getting at least combat frenzy rank 1 is a huge deal for a serious pvp build, and a huge disadvantage to others when you lack it.

olsborg

I only powergamed slightly to get to rank 25 so I could get all the AvA skills unlocked/passives.

Jaerlach

olsborg wrote: »

I only powergamed slightly to get to rank 25 so I could get all the AvA skills unlocked/passives.

Many are not so patient, especially since combat frenzy is completely overpowered on some builds (especially when combined with Battle Roar on any kind of DK build).

ToRelax

Jaerlach wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

I only powergamed slightly to get to rank 25 so I could get all the AvA skills unlocked/passives.

Many are not so patient, especially since combat frenzy is completely overpowered on some builds (especially when combined with Battle Roar on any kind of DK build).

Combat Frenzy give ultimate for killing blows on players. It is strong but I don't see how that is overpowered.
Looking on the popular/infamous "1vX" DK, he is killing people because they are bad players, the 25 ultimate per kill is only a bonus and never enough to kill any player with some understanding of the game mechanics.

As it is not that much of a deal I wouldn't mind having the passive reduced, but it's certainly not overpowered.

Muizer

Firellight wrote: »

Cyrodiil should not be about gathering AP 24/7, and has very little meaning to the average person's life, imo. Call me casual, but AP farming is insane. Thoughts?

My main issue is that AP are rewarded for things that don't really make strategic or tactical sense. Results in a meta-game where you see people behave in ways that don't line up with the whole notion of warfare.

Sanct16

Muizer wrote: »

Firellight wrote: »

Cyrodiil should not be about gathering AP 24/7, and has very little meaning to the average person's life, imo. Call me casual, but AP farming is insane. Thoughts?

My main issue is that AP are rewarded for things that don't really make strategic or tactical sense. Results in a meta-game where you see people behave in ways that don't line up with the whole notion of warfare.

You get AP for PvPing. If you PvD a keep you get only few ap because you did not pvp. Good system imo.

FluffiestOne

ToRelax wrote: »

Jaerlach wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

I only powergamed slightly to get to rank 25 so I could get all the AvA skills unlocked/passives.

Many are not so patient, especially since combat frenzy is completely overpowered on some builds (especially when combined with Battle Roar on any kind of DK build).

Combat Frenzy give ultimate for killing blows on players. It is strong but I don't see how that is overpowered.
Looking on the popular/infamous "1vX" DK, he is killing people because they are bad players, the 25 ultimate per kill is only a bonus and never enough to kill any player with some understanding of the game mechanics.

As it is not that much of a deal I wouldn't mind having the passive reduced, but it's certainly not overpowered.

Those bad players give him more ultimate points so he can kill the better ones hidden in the group of bads.

Asgari

Jaerlach wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

I only powergamed slightly to get to rank 25 so I could get all the AvA skills unlocked/passives.

Many are not so patient, especially since combat frenzy is completely overpowered on some builds (especially when combined with Battle Roar on any kind of DK build).

Combat frenzy is not over powered. Not at all.

The best sorcs drop tons of negates from it, night blades drop extra vails from it, DK just get to take or dps more and Templars get to bats more. It's even all around.

Nijjion

DAoC has been voiced to be one of the best PvP mmos ever (though not currently as it's pretty much dead).

The Realm ranks (DAoC's AP levels) which AP is sort of copied from is one of the many reasons why it was so good. Realm ranks did make your character better as you could get good/needed skills and extra passives. Though down to it... it is pretty much bragging rights.

I won't say the more AP/RP's means skill... but it can say that though the majority of the time due to the experience they have played... though buying/selling accounts you can never know for certain when a game has been out for so long.

eliisra

Muizer wrote: »

My main issue is that AP are rewarded for things that don't really make strategic or tactical sense. Results in a meta-game where you see people behave in ways that don't line up with the whole notion of warfare.

I do agree. Operations that makes tactical sense, helps the faction and so on, will usually not grant you much AP. Sometimes nothing at all, just loads of travelling and a swift death. It's even more the case now, when camps are gone. Majority aren't interested in strategic warfare. There no incentive, other than bragging rights. They rather defend keeps or farm kills, for max AP.

But the solution? I have no clue. If taking keeps and outposts, flipping resources behind enemy lines and so on, would grant you better progression or rewards, there would be issues. It's so much easier to abuse and exploit the system, when only "PvE'ing" is involved. You could flip the map back and fourth for speedy progressions, points, rewards or whatnot on low-pop campaigns. Been done in the past and even now. For emp trading, for massive exp during the first weeks of the game, before they regulated the quests. Than there's nightcapping. I actually think the AP gain when taking undefended keeps, should be pathetic.

It's probably hard, not sure if even realistic, for ZoS to creates some sort of advanced formula that ranks overall contributing in Cyrodiil. But for sure, it would vastly improve PvP.

Jaerlach

ToRelax wrote: »

Jaerlach wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

I only powergamed slightly to get to rank 25 so I could get all the AvA skills unlocked/passives.

Many are not so patient, especially since combat frenzy is completely overpowered on some builds (especially when combined with Battle Roar on any kind of DK build).

Combat Frenzy give ultimate for killing blows on players. It is strong but I don't see how that is overpowered.
Looking on the popular/infamous "1vX" DK, he is killing people because they are bad players, the 25 ultimate per kill is only a bonus and never enough to kill any player with some understanding of the game mechanics.

As it is not that much of a deal I wouldn't mind having the passive reduced, but it's certainly not overpowered.

Even when they are bad, he is only able to do so because combat frenzy gives him constant ultimates, and ultimates restore all his resources due to battle roar.

This interaction is the core of the 1vX DK build. You can do those things without combat frenzy, but only vs about 1/2 to 1/3 as many people, as you don't generate ultimates fast enough, and ultimates restoring your stam/magicka/health is what keeps the flappy flap, cinder storm, blocking, etc running.

Jaerlach

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Jaerlach wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

I only powergamed slightly to get to rank 25 so I could get all the AvA skills unlocked/passives.

Many are not so patient, especially since combat frenzy is completely overpowered on some builds (especially when combined with Battle Roar on any kind of DK build).

Combat frenzy is not over powered. Not at all.

The best sorcs drop tons of negates from it, night blades drop extra vails from it, DK just get to take or dps more and Templars get to bats more. It's even all around.

Its great for everyone, which is exactly my point: When you aren't yet Lieutenant Rank 2 (when you gain combat frenzy 1), you are at a huge disadvantage compared to characters who do have it.

Galalin

Jaerlach wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Jaerlach wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

I only powergamed slightly to get to rank 25 so I could get all the AvA skills unlocked/passives.

Many are not so patient, especially since combat frenzy is completely overpowered on some builds (especially when combined with Battle Roar on any kind of DK build).

Combat Frenzy give ultimate for killing blows on players. It is strong but I don't see how that is overpowered.
Looking on the popular/infamous "1vX" DK, he is killing people because they are bad players, the 25 ultimate per kill is only a bonus and never enough to kill any player with some understanding of the game mechanics.

As it is not that much of a deal I wouldn't mind having the passive reduced, but it's certainly not overpowered.

Even when they are bad, he is only able to do so because combat frenzy gives him constant ultimates, and ultimates restore all his resources due to battle roar.

This interaction is the core of the 1vX DK build. You can do those things without combat frenzy, but only vs about 1/2 to 1/3 as many people, as you don't generate ultimates fast enough, and ultimates restoring your stam/magicka/health is what keeps the flappy flap, cinder storm, blocking, etc running.

Its the core of 1vX? You have to kill 1 to get ult from it... and its only 25. ult cost for standard is 200... thats 8 ppl... hardly the core of it. There are much better gains from other sources... although it does help

Sallington

Make it so you accumulate AP throughout a campaign, but only receive a percentage of it once the campaign ends, depending on how your faction finished.

Anything to make winning more important that milegate farming.

ToRelax

Jaerlach wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Jaerlach wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

I only powergamed slightly to get to rank 25 so I could get all the AvA skills unlocked/passives.

Many are not so patient, especially since combat frenzy is completely overpowered on some builds (especially when combined with Battle Roar on any kind of DK build).

Combat Frenzy give ultimate for killing blows on players. It is strong but I don't see how that is overpowered.
Looking on the popular/infamous "1vX" DK, he is killing people because they are bad players, the 25 ultimate per kill is only a bonus and never enough to kill any player with some understanding of the game mechanics.

As it is not that much of a deal I wouldn't mind having the passive reduced, but it's certainly not overpowered.

Even when they are bad, he is only able to do so because combat frenzy gives him constant ultimates, and ultimates restore all his resources due to battle roar.

This interaction is the core of the 1vX DK build. You can do those things without combat frenzy, but only vs about 1/2 to 1/3 as many people, as you don't generate ultimates fast enough, and ultimates restoring your stam/magicka/health is what keeps the flappy flap, cinder storm, blocking, etc running.

That is just... wrong.
You get ultimate when you deal a killing blow.

Let's say it's a 1v5.
You will in total gain 25*5=125 ultimate from a win.
You will probably not need anymore ultimate after killing the first 3 people if the rest has not the right builds for killing you or is just bad. That you are still living may indeed come from your use of ultimates for a good part - just that your so far 75 ultimate from Combat Frenzy II is not even a half standard. Also, if you would not generate ultimate faster with your damage and CC, it would have been much harder to kill 3 of them in the first place. And this argument you can turn, showing the real value of Combat Frenzy : it does not give you a lot of ultimates, but if you manage to use your ultimate to kill people, it will reduce the time until you have another ultimate ready by a decent amount. If you kill one guy in one banner it would without further reduction reduce the ultimate needed from other sources for the next banner from 200 ultimate to only 175. That's 12.5% .

Now, if you have a buddy with you, the ultimate is divided between you too, dependent on each player's killing blows. Thus, the Combat Frenzy passive will give your group more ultimate as a reward for taking on a higher number of enemies.

So, back to this statement:
"Even when they are bad, he is only able to do so because combat frenzy gives him constant ultimates, and ultimates restore all his resources due to battle roar."

The major part of the Ultimate bad players are feeding in that situation is not by Combat Frenzy.

So if you still feel that Combat Frenzy is rediculously overpowered... just bring some arguments instead of bolt statements. 10-20% more resources from battle roar is certainly nice but does not justify the lack of skill of any player to die to this DK.

themdogesbite

If you think combat frenzy is OP, you are probably one of the guys feeding ultimate.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

Sallington wrote: »

Make it so you accumulate AP throughout a campaign, but only receive a percentage of it once the campaign ends, depending on how your faction finished.

Anything to make winning more important that milegate farming.

Worst idea ever, do you know about this thing called nightcapping? Your idea would totally devalue the work of players during daytime.

---

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

If you think combat frenzy is OP, you are probably one of the guys feeding ultimate.

I agree.

Davadin

Muizer wrote: »

Firellight wrote: »

Cyrodiil should not be about gathering AP 24/7, and has very little meaning to the average person's life, imo. Call me casual, but AP farming is insane. Thoughts?

My main issue is that AP are rewarded for things that don't really make strategic or tactical sense. Results in a meta-game where you see people behave in ways that don't line up with the whole notion of warfare.

This.

QFT.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler‌ please see this.

Nijjion

Muizer wrote: »

My main issue is that AP are rewarded for things that don't really make strategic or tactical sense. Results in a meta-game where you see people behave in ways that don't line up with the whole notion of warfare.

The thing with RvR is it's supposed to be like that. It's supposed to be open and you can do anything you want. If you want to be halled up in a room with the scroll... that's ok, that's what RvR is about. Anything can happen.

If you do that, it sort of works against what it's supposed to be.