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My Thoughts and suggestions on the state of Cyrodil
Etaniel
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Sooooo, i was bored at work and decided to write a bit about what i think needs changing in Cyrodil. Prepare for a long text.
As many people have been saying on the forums and in game, a lot of us are losing interest/motivation in PvP due to the current state of Cyrodil.
When i log on in the evening, my main interest is going for some PvP. I have a couple of choices for my campaigns (EU perspective):
-Haderus : dead empty campaign aside from a handful of yellows including the emperor rushing as soon as they loose one single ressource on the map. They are usually easy to farm but when they wipe to 1 guy on a ressource they come back with 10 more. Result : 10 minute to ride to a ressource and solo it, 10 minutes (usually more) waiting for enemies to show up, wiping them and getting rushed by 10 more, or dying on the first try. That won't fill my evening.
-Chillrend Mostly blue dominated, not much to do there most of the time if you are blue like me.
-Azura Now being pop-locked every night due to the reduced population caps and people leaving thornblade. It's now as laggy as Thorn in the evenings and just a bunch of zergs running around the same keeps over and over.
-Thorn Zergs, lag, more zergs, more lag, you get the idea.
Zergs can be ok once in a while, but now it's the only thing we have. I hate getting my 3 man grouped zerged by 50 people as much as i hate having 50 blues around me wherever there's action on the map.
Will camps fix this? no, it'll just make it easier for the zergs to travel to the fights. It was just as zergy with camps, it hasn't changed. Bringing camps back the way they were before would be worse because then the zergs wouldn't be able to wipe, they'd just respawn in a second, 20 meters away from you. Might as well build the keeps next to each other, or play call of duty for that matter.
In my opinion, it's the map that needs to be reworked. The map isn't designed for having really low population, the travel times are just too huge, you do 10 minutes of riding to find an enemy (if you find one) and either he or you has to ride again afterwards.
On full campaigns, there aren't enough objectives, which means that usually the entire faction is defending 1, 2 keeps or attacking 1, 2 keeps at a given time. if the pop cap is let's say 200 that's 100 people per keep. And since all those people siege from one side, the fights get boring real fast, and most of all unplayable from all the lag.
Here's a few ideas i can suggest:
Changing the design of keeps to make them unique. Change the shape, make higher walls, add different towers, move the posterns a bit, change the inside structure, different guard positioning etc. The keeps already aren't indentical, but way too lookalike in my taste, and it makes every keep fight feel the same even though they might be on the opposite sides of the map. Even just changing the architecture style of the stone color of the walls would be awesome !
Add small objectives. There are sooo many places on the map that are unvisited because there simply isn't anything to do there. The only time we walk across them is if there's a scroll involved, and that doesn't happen too much. Small objectives like ressources could be added all over the map, thus spreading out the zergs, reducing lag, giving small groups more stuff to do. Of course those ressources would give some kind of advantage or score bonus to the faction holding it. It could be that those ressources generate small amounts of gold every 15 min for the guild that claims it, or 2-3% additional mount speed for the faction, or anything ZOS can think of as long as there's incentive to take them.
Change the current dungeons in Cyrodil. Most people never go to them, and those that do only go for the skyshard and the achievement, and never go there again, making them ghost dungeons. Bring up the bosses and monsters to a higher lvl so that they actually give a challenge (i'm not asking to add boss strategies like in vet dungeons or trials) and make them loot crafting materials for example, or make them guard a chest. Create some zones with a higher density of monsters that are actually nice for grinding, and give an exp bonus for those who take the risk of grinding in a pvp zone.
A lot of people say the travel distances are too long and that they feel they are playing some kind of horse simulator. Well, if we actually had things to do between those keeps, we woulnd't ride for very long, we'd get more ganking opportunities so more small scale fights, it would create more travel routes, thus making it a bit less predictable for gankers who want some easy ap off the horse. And most of all we'd actually make a use for the gigantic place that is Cyrodil. I mean, doesn't anyone feel it's a waste that the developpers took a long time to develop such a large zone, but half of it is useless? There are many landscapes in every corner that are unusual and would generate awesome skirmish opportunities.
I know the Imperial city is coming (not so soon apparently) and that might give Cyrodil a bit of a welcome renewal, but it won't fix the fact that half the map isn't used.
Anyways, these are just suggestions, but it might give the devs some ideas for futur updates next year or later, and i really hope this game lasts, as it has amazing potential.
Please share your thoughts!
Do you think the map is fine as it is?
Are there enough objectives?
Did you actually have the courage to read everything?
Are you bored at work too?
Sorry for the long post, here's a potato :
<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/FileUpload/3b/6cf395eaaa5ea5a8caa7eb8ec31ea7.jpg" />
As many people have been saying on the forums and in game, a lot of us are losing interest/motivation in PvP due to the current state of Cyrodil.
When i log on in the evening, my main interest is going for some PvP. I have a couple of choices for my campaigns (EU perspective):
-Haderus : dead empty campaign aside from a handful of yellows including the emperor rushing as soon as they loose one single ressource on the map. They are usually easy to farm but when they wipe to 1 guy on a ressource they come back with 10 more. Result : 10 minute to ride to a ressource and solo it, 10 minutes (usually more) waiting for enemies to show up, wiping them and getting rushed by 10 more, or dying on the first try. That won't fill my evening.
-Chillrend Mostly blue dominated, not much to do there most of the time if you are blue like me.
-Azura Now being pop-locked every night due to the reduced population caps and people leaving thornblade. It's now as laggy as Thorn in the evenings and just a bunch of zergs running around the same keeps over and over.
-Thorn Zergs, lag, more zergs, more lag, you get the idea.
Zergs can be ok once in a while, but now it's the only thing we have. I hate getting my 3 man grouped zerged by 50 people as much as i hate having 50 blues around me wherever there's action on the map.
Will camps fix this? no, it'll just make it easier for the zergs to travel to the fights. It was just as zergy with camps, it hasn't changed. Bringing camps back the way they were before would be worse because then the zergs wouldn't be able to wipe, they'd just respawn in a second, 20 meters away from you. Might as well build the keeps next to each other, or play call of duty for that matter.
In my opinion, it's the map that needs to be reworked. The map isn't designed for having really low population, the travel times are just too huge, you do 10 minutes of riding to find an enemy (if you find one) and either he or you has to ride again afterwards.
On full campaigns, there aren't enough objectives, which means that usually the entire faction is defending 1, 2 keeps or attacking 1, 2 keeps at a given time. if the pop cap is let's say 200 that's 100 people per keep. And since all those people siege from one side, the fights get boring real fast, and most of all unplayable from all the lag.
Here's a few ideas i can suggest:
Changing the design of keeps to make them unique. Change the shape, make higher walls, add different towers, move the posterns a bit, change the inside structure, different guard positioning etc. The keeps already aren't indentical, but way too lookalike in my taste, and it makes every keep fight feel the same even though they might be on the opposite sides of the map. Even just changing the architecture style of the stone color of the walls would be awesome !
Add small objectives. There are sooo many places on the map that are unvisited because there simply isn't anything to do there. The only time we walk across them is if there's a scroll involved, and that doesn't happen too much. Small objectives like ressources could be added all over the map, thus spreading out the zergs, reducing lag, giving small groups more stuff to do. Of course those ressources would give some kind of advantage or score bonus to the faction holding it. It could be that those ressources generate small amounts of gold every 15 min for the guild that claims it, or 2-3% additional mount speed for the faction, or anything ZOS can think of as long as there's incentive to take them.
Change the current dungeons in Cyrodil. Most people never go to them, and those that do only go for the skyshard and the achievement, and never go there again, making them ghost dungeons. Bring up the bosses and monsters to a higher lvl so that they actually give a challenge (i'm not asking to add boss strategies like in vet dungeons or trials) and make them loot crafting materials for example, or make them guard a chest. Create some zones with a higher density of monsters that are actually nice for grinding, and give an exp bonus for those who take the risk of grinding in a pvp zone.
A lot of people say the travel distances are too long and that they feel they are playing some kind of horse simulator. Well, if we actually had things to do between those keeps, we woulnd't ride for very long, we'd get more ganking opportunities so more small scale fights, it would create more travel routes, thus making it a bit less predictable for gankers who want some easy ap off the horse. And most of all we'd actually make a use for the gigantic place that is Cyrodil. I mean, doesn't anyone feel it's a waste that the developpers took a long time to develop such a large zone, but half of it is useless? There are many landscapes in every corner that are unusual and would generate awesome skirmish opportunities.
I know the Imperial city is coming (not so soon apparently) and that might give Cyrodil a bit of a welcome renewal, but it won't fix the fact that half the map isn't used.
Anyways, these are just suggestions, but it might give the devs some ideas for futur updates next year or later, and i really hope this game lasts, as it has amazing potential.
Please share your thoughts!
Do you think the map is fine as it is?
Are there enough objectives?
Did you actually have the courage to read everything?
Are you bored at work too?
Sorry for the long post, here's a potato :
<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/FileUpload/3b/6cf395eaaa5ea5a8caa7eb8ec31ea7.jpg" />
![https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/FileUpload/3b/6cf395eaaa5ea5a8caa7eb8ec31ea7.jpg"](https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/FileUpload/3b/6cf395eaaa5ea5a8caa7eb8ec31ea7.jpg"){kind=link}
3
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Thudunblundur✭✭✭Chuckle. I'll add my 2p worth - but just positive stuff.
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Like the map as it is in terms of size. The riding doesn't bother me and I really really like the fact that it feels BIG. You can go looking for an enemy group you believe is heading for one of your keeps and not find it because they took a roundabout route, or hid in a valley - it gives space for tactics and strategy to work out.
Objectives for me are the opposition. You could take the dungeons out as far as I'm concerned. But I agree they are rather wasted at present. Haven't been back since I got the skyshards.
I do think it would be nice to have more variety in the keeps and I wouldn't mind a small amount of variation in how hard they are to take. Perhaps Gate Keeps could have an outer curtain wall giving an extra layer of defence? I should mention that sieges are one of the successes of this game imo: They work and I enjoy them.
Haven't read everything though I read quite a bit. Mood came into it
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And that's a very nice potato.1 -
Etaniel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Thudunblundur wrote: »-
You can go looking for an enemy group you believe is heading for one of your keeps and not find it because they took a roundabout route, or hid in a valley - it gives space for tactics and strategy to work out.
That's what i would love to see as well ! But i'm sure if we could the lines drawn by player footsteps you would see pretty much no roundabout routes are used, and no one ( at least a vast majority) goes through the trouble of hiding in a valley.0 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Resources added would be nice. Would add more variety to Cyrodiil.
And why are the bridges not objectives?? factions already spend hours fighting over them, why not put a dang flag on the bridges so alliances could capture them and get some points out of it?Edited by Cody on December 23, 2014 5:54PM2 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
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Because bridges already are major chokepoints. Adding actual flags to them will be overkill.Resources added would be nice. Would add more variety to Cyrodiil.
And why are the bridges not objectives?? factions already spend hours fighting over them, why not put a dang flag on the bridges so alliances could capture them and get some points out of it?
But I'd love the defense ticks.
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Maidenname✭✭✭
Agree.... You earned a badge from me B-D
He who knows others is intelligent; he who understands himself is enlightened;
He who is able to conquer others has force, but he who is able to control himself is mighty.
*** Beta player0 -
daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have no issues with the map size and no camps. Anyone talking about 10 minute rides is greatly exaggerating. From one keep to the next it takes 2 minutes tops, if you need to skip one because of no teleport, max 5 minutes. Of course you have to ride a lot if you die a lot, but I prefer that to a shooter-style spawn-in-the-middle-of-the-action.
As for the keeps, I'm all for more diversity. ZOS did revisit many public dungeons in PvE areas to make them larger and more unique, but PvP apparently isn't so lucky :P Well, to be totally honest the public dungeons in Cyrodiil were all pretty unique from the start (did anyone else stumble onto that huge hole in the ground, or maybe even rode into it by accident, to discover it's a back entrance to a delve?), so that's one area where PvP started out ahead of PvE areas.
Imperial city (when it comes) should add quite a few new objectives, but I wouldn't mind seeing secondary resources scattered around the map.
That said, what I think PvP needs first and foremost is for ZOS to fix the lag, fix the skills, fix the damned campaign bonuses, make up their minds on whether camps are in or out... I gave this speech before, nothing new here 0 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »
Because bridges already are major chokepoints. Adding actual flags to them will be overkill.Resources added would be nice. Would add more variety to Cyrodiil.
And why are the bridges not objectives?? factions already spend hours fighting over them, why not put a dang flag on the bridges so alliances could capture them and get some points out of it?
how so?0 -
Thudunblundur✭✭✭Thudunblundur wrote: »-
You can go looking for an enemy group you believe is heading for one of your keeps and not find it because they took a roundabout route, or hid in a valley - it gives space for tactics and strategy to work out.
That's what i would love to see as well ! But i'm sure if we could the lines drawn by player footsteps you would see pretty much no roundabout routes are used, and no one ( at least a vast majority) goes through the trouble of hiding in a valley.
It's rare but it does happen - was thinking of an occasion the other night when the group I was part of hid up for a while trying to mislead the enemy a bit. I'm not sure personally it was the right thing to do, but I could see the point. We've also picked up enemy groups coming in by routes that weren't really expected. Agree that most of the time players go direct from A to B. I know I do unless I've been ganked.
I haven't played a lot of pvp games, but those I have the bigger the player area the better. You need room to outflank and a variety of terrain helps.0 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Here is my list of the overarching issues with PvP that I have gathered from other posts. Some of this may get fixed soon but other things have persisted since beta.- Lag: (skill lag, weapon switch lag, door lag, zerg lag, pfx lag, lag lag)
- Poor performance in PvP (crashes, lag, memory leaks) after EVERY patch that go unchecked for weeks/months.
- Bugs in certain skills that either break the skill completely or make it exploitable that go unchecked for weeks/months
- Incorrect tooltips, hidden cooldowns (i.e. templar charge), and ninja nerfs to abilities that are never acknowledged or fixed.
- Lack of in game support for duels/battlegrounds/instant action/ way to fight your friends/guildmates i.e. no new purely PvP content since launch.
- AoE caps (and other mechanics) that favor zergballs (ostensible fix on the way)
- Range vs. Melee imbalance (an oft-neglected subset of the magicka/stamina debate.
- Lack of a true overarching balance paradigm between the classes. Inconsistent nerfs and buffs to certain classes or abilities in response to reactionary flameposts on the forums.
- Long periods of neglect, followed by severe reactionary changes to PvP game mechanics.
- Lack of a consistent or enforceable policy on "spirit of the game" issues such as trolling or "exploiting."
- Lack of satisfying rewards. Only Green (decon fodder) gear and underleveled (VR12), hard to get, (grab bag) PvP gear with ridiculously horrible traits (training, exploration, etc). More suggestions on gear improvements here.
Edited by Yolokin_Swagonborn on December 24, 2014 2:35AM3 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I totally agree that something should be done about Cyrodiil, it isn't really working out as intended & is starting to feel a bit repetitive.Here's a few ideas i can suggest:
Changing the design of keeps to make them unique. Change the shape, make higher walls, add different towers, move the posterns a bit, change the inside structure, different guard positioning etc. The keeps already aren't indentical, but way too lookalike in my taste, and it makes every keep fight feel the same even though they might be on the opposite sides of the map. Even just changing the architecture style of the stone color of the walls would be awesome !
I like your ideas.
To add: what if you could purchase additional defenses for keeps with AP, which would then stay there until the keep got captured again?
I'm talking about something like entrenchements outside the walls, or special siege engines in fixed places, perhaps even special NPCs to defend a certain location.Add small objectives. There are sooo many places on the map that are unvisited because there simply isn't anything to do there. The only time we walk across them is if there's a scroll involved, and that doesn't happen too much. Small objectives like ressources could be added all over the map, thus spreading out the zergs, reducing lag, giving small groups more stuff to do. Of course those ressources would give some kind of advantage or score bonus to the faction holding it. It could be that those ressources generate small amounts of gold every 15 min for the guild that claims it, or 2-3% additional mount speed for the faction, or anything ZOS can think of as long as there's incentive to take them.
Again, 100% agreed.
I would like them to add a lot more "mini outposts" or "camps" around the empty areas, that players could capture (and claim), which would then spawn NPC patrols (maybe even "creep waves" towards enemy keeps, similar to MOBAs?).Change the current dungeons in Cyrodil. Most people never go to them, and those that do only go for the skyshard and the achievement, and never go there again, making them ghost dungeons. Bring up the bosses and monsters to a higher lvl so that they actually give a challenge (i'm not asking to add boss strategies like in vet dungeons or trials) and make them loot crafting materials for example, or make them guard a chest. Create some zones with a higher density of monsters that are actually nice for grinding, and give an exp bonus for those who take the risk of grinding in a pvp zone.
They're releasing a new daedric style with Imperial City (if I'm not mistaken). They could make the style materials drop in dungeons around Cyrodiil, similar to Dwemer Scrap.
Another option would be adding daily quests for the dungeons (with high Champion Point yields)
In addition to all this, I would completely revamp the buff system (and guilds).
I think would be awesome if the buffs were tied to the keeps/resources, with the guild owning that keep getting the buffs.
This might require a revamp of the guild system as well (perhaps allowing you to choose one "main guild" out of your 5 guilds, which would then be the one that gives you buffs).
I think this would work perfectly in conjunction with the proposed ideas stated above, where those new objectives could be claimed & then made to grant buffs.
What this would accomplish:- More sense of community, having to defend your keeps/resources/camps with your guild, making alliances with other guilds to help them secure parts of Cyrodiil.
- Being able to claim your "own" little spot of Cyrodiil, and keeping it as long as you are able to defend it.
- It would likely decentralize the fights more, with people having more motivation to attack that one keep/resource/camp no one cares about.
- Could be expanded further to allow guilds customize their keeps with new buildings/defenses etc
What would probably have to be changed to make this happen:- Claiming mechanism. The objective should be awarded to the guild with most contribution (could be AP) towards the objective.
- Keeps should probably be harder to capture.
I think these changes combined with more motivation to hang around Cyrodiil from better (more rewarding) dungeon/questing experiences could really turn the PvP around.Please share your thoughts!
Do you think the map is fine as it is?
Are there enough objectives?
Did you actually have the courage to read everything?
Are you bored at work too?
Sorry for the long post, here's a potato :
<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/FileUpload/3b/6cf395eaaa5ea5a8caa7eb8ec31ea7.jpg" />
Done.
No.
No.
Yes.
Not at work, but bored
Thanks for the potato!Edited by DDuke on December 24, 2014 3:04AM2 -
Columba✭✭✭✭✭
✭spam pulse, springs or bats, and get booted to login, just as if you are spamming chat.0 -
JamilaRaj✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'd change resources so that port to keep and respawn inside is blocked as soon as any one of them is captured by enemies.0 -
riverdragon72✭✭✭✭✭get rid of bat swarm, or make being a vamp have consequences again. with the audio and visual ques as fu**ed up as they are now it is ridiculous when 5-10 of these idiots spam up on a group now.Meh...**** it..1 -
Etaniel✭✭✭✭✭
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I was making this thread about the actual PvP content, not the balance. There are plenty other posts about thatriverdragon72 wrote: »get rid of bat swarm, or make being a vamp have consequences again. with the audio and visual ques as fu**ed up as they are now it is ridiculous when 5-10 of these idiots spam up on a group now.
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