Concerns concerning Ultimate regenration in Update6 and Casters/Healers

Elloa

In ESOLife we have learnt that ULTIMATE will now be regenerated by dealing damage with light and heavy attacks (it gives a buff), or by healing someone that have that buff and is actually doing damage.

This really worry me because it seems that Magika users aka Healers and Casters that were already sort of forced to play Staff, will now even more be enclosed in that role.
I'm currently playing a Caster Sword+Shield (for questing). I generate a lot of ultimate via my spells that I cast in melee range and I'm almost never using a light attack with my sword. I only use the shield for charging, bashing and blocking, but my damages comes exclusively from spells.
This new changes in Ultimate regeneration would forces me to use my light/heavy attack with my swords, wich, as caster, will probably not be the best way to fight.

I find very sad that casters/healers are reduced to play with staffs, and can't find cool and efficient build that includes other weapons.

Any thoughs about this?

DeLindsay

You need to learn to attack weave. It's when you cancel the animation of an ability with a Light Attack. It increases your dmg significantly. The change to Ultimate generation is sorely needed as some Classes/builds could roll an Ultimate indefinitely while other builds hardly ever saw an Ultimate dropped.

Orchish

What about us tanks? We are blocking a lot more than dps who are spamming attacks, won't this put us at a disadvantage now as they will simply be dropping 2-3 ults per my one?

Also, what will happen to the Werewolf passive blood rage? The sole reason i have kept my werewolf is because of this ult gen passive.

Sharee

If you already are fighting in melee range then all you need to do is one light attack every 8 seconds.

Orchish

Sharee wrote: »

If you already are fighting in melee range then all you need to do is one light attack every 8 seconds.

So ultimate builds over time from 1 attack rather than a small amount per every attack?

DeLindsay

It's 3 Ultimate per second for 8 seconds after any Light or Heavy attack or heal on a person with said buff.

Xsorus

it gives a buff, for 8 seconds you gain 3 ultimate every second

Trust me, that's a massive buff when tanking

DeLindsay

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

it gives a buff, for 8 seconds you gain 3 ultimate every second

Trust me, that's a massive buff when tanking

Yeah that means as a NB tank I can actually drop VoB every ~1min while tanking a ST Boss. Once a minute is about right imo for an ability that's supposed to be ULTIMATE lol.

Gyudan

DeLindsay wrote: »

You need to learn to attack weave. It's when you cancel the animation of an ability with a Light Attack. It increases your dmg significantly. The change to Ultimate generation is sorely needed as some Classes/builds could roll an Ultimate indefinitely while other builds hardly ever saw an Ultimate dropped.

I hope that animation canceling doesn't become necessary to generate ultimate. Of course everyone at VR14 doing serious endgame content is using it (me too) but that mechanism shouldn't be encouraged even more than it already is. I think that @ZOS should work towards making combat responsive without block-casting and animation canceling (at some point in the future).

Orchish

Okay got it, thanks for clearing that up.

Do we know if passives that give ult will remain or changed? such as blood rage or Crippling slash. (not a passive but gives ult anyway)

DeLindsay

It's not required to generate Ultimate under the changes, only to increase DPS. All any player will have to do is Light or Heavy attack once every 8 seconds to have a continuous stream of 3/sec Ult generation, or heal a player once every 8 seconds that has attacked. I think it's a quite fair and balanced way to generate Ult. It should keep those (insert colorful word here) players in Cyro from having Devouring Swarm up 24/7.

DeLindsay

Orchish wrote: »

Okay got it, thanks for clearing that up.

Do we know if passives that give ult will remain or changed? such as blood rage or Crippling slash. (not a passive but gives ult anyway)

They didn't say. But if I had to guess, WW and passives that allow additional generation will probably still work, but that's only a guess. ZoS just confirmed in one of the other threads about this very topic that you will indeed continue to gain Ultimate from other sources, the Light/Heavy attacks is just a way to streamline the process.

tinythinker

Elloa wrote: »

In ESOLife we have learnt that ULTIMATE will now be regenerated by dealing damage with light and heavy attacks (it gives a buff), or by healing someone that have that buff and is actually doing damage.

This really worry me because it seems that Magika users aka Healers and Casters that were already sort of forced to play Staff, will now even more be enclosed in that role.
I'm currently playing a Caster Sword+Shield (for questing). I generate a lot of ultimate via my spells that I cast in melee range and I'm almost never using a light attack with my sword. I only use the shield for charging, bashing and blocking, but my damages comes exclusively from spells.
This new changes in Ultimate regeneration would forces me to use my light/heavy attack with my swords, wich, as caster, will probably not be the best way to fight.

I find very sad that casters/healers are reduced to play with staffs, and can't find cool and efficient build that includes other weapons.

Any thoughs about this?

I don't like it. I wrote about it in another thread. The short version is that 1) there are other ways to make ult generation more balanced and 2) when using a multi-target (spell) bar you don't want or need try to "weave in" single-target attacks with your weapon that open you to a greater chance of knockdowns, eliminate utility/reduces targets effected, and reduces DPS. For such builds in group mob encounters hitting light attack every eight seconds "just because" is a distraction at best and a (deadly) hindrance at worst that doesn't reward good game play, which was the original concept behind gaining ultimate points.

Faulgor

Elloa wrote: »

I find very sad that casters/healers are reduced to play with staffs, and can't find cool and efficient build that includes other weapons.

Any thoughs about this?

Agreed. That's because they still haven't utilised enchantments as much as they could. If your fire enchantment on your sword would scale with magicka/spell damage, there might be a reason to use them. But as it stands, ZOS seems to think applying a 50 damage tickle every 4 seconds is enough.

kongkim

DeLindsay wrote: »

It's 3 Ultimate per second for 8 seconds after any Light or Heavy attack or heal on a person with said buff.

Yes.

Forestd16b14_ESO

The reason I see them doing this is to stop the so called "healers" from gaining full ulti by just spamming healing springs while every is just waiting to attack or defend or even just simply walking. I have seen this many times were a " healer " ask every one to stop for a sec for them to spam healing springs and gain there ulti which is normaly DK standers or bat swarm. I'm sure many of you can relate to this cause you can see how that is kinda unfair when the so called "healers" have full ulti and can walk into the middle of the battle and drop it then ran away and spam healing springs again and yada yada bla bla so on and so on. As to were the defensive like tank would be barely gaining ulti cause for tanks the only way for them to gain ulti is back taking damage and taking barely earned you ulti. It's just a way for every one to gain ultimate equal instead of this one player using these skills and earning it super fast to the other player who uses a diffrent set and earns it slowly.

tplink3r1

"It's 3 Ultimate per second for 8 seconds after any Light or Heavy attack"
it seems melee players are being nerfed in PvP after this...

Kyuumu

I agree with tinythinker. I am unfamiliar with most of the regeneration "problems" they have in classes, but when your progressing in a mob situation with an AOE bar, it's downright hazardous to your health to try an sneak in a single target hit every 8 seconds.

DeLindsay

Ultimate Generation is sooo fast now in 1.6 (PvE) it's great. The only 2 aspects where it's a "nerf" is perma SoM/Batswarm/VoB users in PvP and solo Grinding, that's it.

Robbmrp

Elloa wrote: »

In ESOLife we have learnt that ULTIMATE will now be regenerated by dealing damage with light and heavy attacks (it gives a buff), or by healing someone that have that buff and is actually doing damage.

This really worry me because it seems that Magika users aka Healers and Casters that were already sort of forced to play Staff, will now even more be enclosed in that role.
I'm currently playing a Caster Sword+Shield (for questing). I generate a lot of ultimate via my spells that I cast in melee range and I'm almost never using a light attack with my sword. I only use the shield for charging, bashing and blocking, but my damages comes exclusively from spells.
This new changes in Ultimate regeneration would forces me to use my light/heavy attack with my swords, wich, as caster, will probably not be the best way to fight.

I find very sad that casters/healers are reduced to play with staffs, and can't find cool and efficient build that includes other weapons.

Any thoughs about this?

I haven't had an issue healing and regenerating Ultimate. Probably because I am constantly using light/heavy attacks to restore magicka because the Regen SUCKS now. The problem I do have is the crappy ultimate that's called Right of Passage and it's morphs. This used to be a great spell for mass healing. It worked great in Darkshade Caverns Vet for the poison phase. It also worked great on other Vet dungeons. Now it's worthless and heals for about 1/2 that it used to. If you have a group at 50% health in the Poison phase and use that spell now your all dead. Now we have to spam Illustrious Healing or Healing Springs now. Such a waste of an ultimate.

s7732425ub17_ESO

DeLindsay wrote: »

Ultimate Generation is sooo fast now in 1.6 (PvE) it's great. The only 2 aspects where it's a "nerf" is perma SoM/Batswarm/VoB users in PvP and solo Grinding, that's it.

Yep. Except for certain 1.5 DoT builds, ultimate generation is faster and equalized for every class and role in 1.6. It's actually a great change. I can no longer spam 3 ultimates within 10 seconds by killing a group of trash mobs, but at least I can use an ultimate multiple times while killing a boss.

I was against the change at first, but now, I really, really like it.

DeLindsay

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

Ultimate Generation is sooo fast now in 1.6 (PvE) it's great. The only 2 aspects where it's a "nerf" is perma SoM/Batswarm/VoB users in PvP and solo Grinding, that's it.

Yep. Except for certain 1.5 DoT builds, ultimate generation is faster and equalized for every class and role in 1.6. It's actually a great change. I can no longer spam 3 ultimates within 10 seconds by killing a group of trash mobs, but at least I can use an ultimate multiple times while killing a boss.

I was against the change at first, but now, I really, really like it.

Oh yeah I can pop off during some Boss fights 3-5 Ice Comets compared to 1-2 Ultimates before.