Healers: Is Breath of Life too good?

ThatHappyCat

So I suggested a change to Breath of Life in my Templar patch thread which attracted much negativity from other Templars. I decided to open a poll for this issue in particular to see what non-Templar healers think.

Personally, as a Templar healer, I think that Breath of Life promotes too different a playstyle for the entire group compared to Restoration staff healing. If you healer is not a Templar, you generally want to group up so everyone can benefit from Grand Healing. With a Templar however, as Breath of Life can reach anyone in a 28 metre radius (as opposed to the 8 metre radius of Grand Healing), there is rarely any need to group up for the healer to heal.

The result of this is that even though Breath of Life isn't strictly necessary in most content, groups will only take Templar healers because it means you don't have to care about grouping up for heals, essentially lowering the coordination the team requires to stay alive. This effectively alienates other healers to at most an off-healing role, even if they are perfectly capable of healing through the content.

Based on this, it is my belief that Breath of Life as it is is bad for the game. My suggestion is to make Breath of Life's side heals only work in a radius around the primary target. For groups that group up for heals, as you would for a Grand Healing-based healer, this would make almost no difference; but it means that there are no longer two different playstyles (with one strictly easier than the other) depending on your healer.

Roselle

I am a Templar Healer. Breath of Life is fine.

For its magicka cost, I think the morph of this spell is fine. It may seem very powerful in 4 man content, but you have to remember it doesn't heal an entire trial group at once with the ranged luxury.

ThatHappyCat

I am a Templar Healer. Breath of Life is too good.

Roselle wrote: »

For its magicka cost, I think the morph of this spell is fine. It may seem very powerful in 4 man content, but you have to remember it doesn't heal an entire trial group at once with the ranged luxury.

Trials are different because it's mostly just "tank and spank", people group up anyways so Grand Healing is perfectly fine. The same goes for zerg PvP. In 4-people content (and small, organised group PvP) however Breath of Life is vastly preferred over Grand Healing, sometimes without real reason: a good group should be able to run with a Grand Healing healer just fine, but they rarely accept one.

It also puts pressure on non-healer Templars. Frequently if I'm the only Templar in the group and am trying to tank or DPS, I'd be pressured to be the healer even if there's a perfectly fine non-Templar healer in the group. While I do enjoy playing healer, I do like to branch out; and being forced to heal all the time isn't nice.

Should also point out that with the right equipment and a bit of magicka management, the magicka cost of Breath of Life is almost a non-issue. Even if I am forced to spam Breath of Life I can do so through most heavy damage phases without running out of magicka.

Soris

I am a Templar Healer. Breath of Life is fine.

Dude, leave it alone.

ThatHappyCat

I am a Templar Healer. Breath of Life is too good.

Hey, I'm happy as a Templar healer here, and I would definitely hate it if it were nerfed in any way. I'm thinking about non-Templar healers, trying to be impartial.

The purpose of this poll is to figure out if I got it wrong. Maybe non-Templar healers think they're perfectly fine and aren't overshadowed by Templar healers in any way. If so then I admit I'm wrong.

cote-bmsb16_ESO

I am a Templar Healer. Breath of Life is fine.

In my experience as a templar healer, sometimes stacking grandhealing isnt enough when your tank is getting smashed on by the harder bosses and adds. There are fights where the group cant afford to stay in one spot; BoL saves countless ESO lives every day.

ThatHappyCat

I am a Templar Healer. Breath of Life is too good.

cote-bmsb16_ESO wrote: »

In my experience as a templar healer, sometimes stacking grandhealing isnt enough when your tank is getting smashed on by the harder bosses and adds. There are fights where the group cant afford to stay in one spot; BoL saves countless ESO lives every day.

And herein lies a problem. What about non-Templar healers?

I don't necessarily agree with you, but you obviously aren't thinking about healers that don't have access to BoL here.

Dekkameron

I am a Templar Healer. Breath of Life is fine.

I play both Templar healer as well as a NIghtblade healer, i think it is fine.

cote-bmsb16_ESO

I am a Templar Healer. Breath of Life is fine.

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

cote-bmsb16_ESO wrote: »

In my experience as a templar healer, sometimes stacking grandhealing isnt enough when your tank is getting smashed on by the harder bosses and adds. There are fights where the group cant afford to stay in one spot; BoL saves countless ESO lives every day.

And herein lies a problem. What about non-Templar healers?

I don't necessarily agree with you, but you obviously aren't thinking about healers that don't have access to BoL here.

Templars dont have access to sorcs CC and NBs are dps/syphon healing. Sorcs have a better variety in their tool kit, while templars its just heals or stam regen.

ThatHappyCat

I am a Templar Healer. Breath of Life is too good.

cote-bmsb16_ESO wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

cote-bmsb16_ESO wrote: »

In my experience as a templar healer, sometimes stacking grandhealing isnt enough when your tank is getting smashed on by the harder bosses and adds. There are fights where the group cant afford to stay in one spot; BoL saves countless ESO lives every day.

And herein lies a problem. What about non-Templar healers?

I don't necessarily agree with you, but you obviously aren't thinking about healers that don't have access to BoL here.

Templars dont have access to sorcs CC and NBs are dps/syphon healing. Sorcs have a better variety in their tool kit, while templars its just heals or stam regen.

Siphons won't do much for the situation you described and neither will CCs given bosses and most major adds are CC immune. Not to mention the Immobilises (which is what Sorcs get) doesn't stop ranged mobs from attacking.

Jacques Berge

I do not play a Healer.

the skill is fine, they already said healing staff was gonna get a revamp... Ugh, EVERYONE!!! every class needs to stop asking for nerfs to any other class. No skill needs to be weakened... Other skills just need to be stronger.

ThatHappyCat

I am a Templar Healer. Breath of Life is too good.

Jacques Berge wrote: »

the skill is fine, they already said healing staff was gonna get a revamp... Ugh, EVERYONE!!! every class needs to stop asking for nerfs to any other class. No skill needs to be weakened... Other skills just need to be stronger.

Well, all skills are getting a revamp in Update 6. And a "no nerf, only buffs" philosophy leads to power creep.

guybrushtb16_ESO

I am a non-Templar Healer. Breath of Life is fine.

IMO, breath of life is so strong right now because it's the only strong ranged burst heal, which is the best way to counter spike damage as a healer, so it's understandable that it is in high demand.

What I would rather like to see though, is this functionality being made available to all healers instead of BoL being nerfed. For example, spellcrafting could probably get a lesser version of BoL without the secondary heals maybe. We can't have the full thing for everyone however, because right now BoL is the only thing that keeps NB healers from being even more dominant than templar healers are now.

ThatHappyCat

I am a Templar Healer. Breath of Life is too good.

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

IMO, breath of life is so strong right now because it's the only strong ranged burst heal, which is the best way to counter spike damage as a healer, so it's understandable that it is in high demand.

What I would rather like to see though, is this functionality being made available to all healers instead of BoL being nerfed. For example, spellcrafting could probably get a lesser version of BoL without the secondary heals maybe. We can't have the full thing for everyone however, because right now BoL is the only thing that keeps NB healers from being even more dominant than templar healers are now.

I think Steadfast/Healing Ward needs to be buffed so it's a better emergency heal. Breath of Life however isn't just an emergency heal for spikes, it's also a group heal with a huge area coverage.

I'm fine with BoL healing that much, but I don't think it should be able to heal across a diameter of 56 metres.

tplink3r1

I do not play a Healer.

BoL should be a resto staff heal, that way they can buff our very low dps (magicka builds).

DeLindsay

I am a non-Templar Healer. Breath of Life is fine.

As a NB Healer (off-spec) I have zero problem with Templar being King/Queen of HPS and Burst healing. Would I love to have it or something close as a non-Templar, you bet, but I don't think ZoS should nerf Templars' healing or buff Resto staff healing 'just because'.

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

I think Steadfast/Healing Ward needs to be buffed so it's a better emergency heal. Breath of Life however isn't just an emergency heal for spikes, it's also a group heal with a huge area coverage.

Healing Ward is an amazing emergency shield/heal if the player using it has appropriate stats to scale it well. The only issue that I could agree on is that it's for 1 player only and you cannot pick which, but that's the price (3) Classes pay to be capable of Healing. The only compromise I could see ZoS making is changing Ward Ally to hit (3) players instead of 1 + self. Even then it still wouldn't be as good as Healing Ward for burst. I've seen it crit heal for over 2400 on a very low health player with an average non-crit of over 1600 (if the shield is intact when it expires ofc), and I'm sure my VR12 gear is nothing compared to some in full VR14 legendary BiS type stuff.

ThatHappyCat

I am a Templar Healer. Breath of Life is too good.

The problem with Healing Ward is you don't get the healing until the 6 seconds are up, and it's very easy to have the shield stripped away before that; especially if someone is taking heavy damage and need that healing quickly.

DeLindsay

I am a non-Templar Healer. Breath of Life is fine.

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

The problem with Healing Ward is you don't get the healing until the 6 seconds are up, and it's very easy to have the shield stripped away before that; especially if someone is taking heavy damage and need that healing quickly.

Certainly true, but if you take some precautions you can minimize the amount of shield loss before it expires. Have the person LoS anything they can, drop Ring of Protection / use Bone Shield and hold block until the shield expires, all the while healing the player (or self). This is ofc talking small group since in larger fights often times the player that gets the shield is smack in the middle of the mess and likely the shield won't hold, but at least they will be receiving healing for the few moments it does hold.

It's also a great tactic to use for Healers that are nearly OOM in combination with 2-3x Spell Symmetries, if they can get to a reasonably safe spot for a few seconds.

ThatHappyCat

I am a Templar Healer. Breath of Life is too good.

DeLindsay wrote: »

drop Ring of Protection / use Bone Shield and hold block until the shield expires, all the while healing the player (or self).

Shields do not benefit from any form of mitigation, whether it be armour/spell resistance or blocking: i.e. a shield always takes full damage no matter what.

That's why Steadfast Ward is much weaker than its numbers suggest compared to Rushed Ceremony.

lolo_01b16_ESO

I am a Templar Healer. Breath of Life is fine.

I have a Templar healer as well as other classes. In my oppinion it's fine that Templars have a skill that provides an advantage as healer in certain situations. Other classes have their strenghs in different fights. There are allready fights where Templars are not the best choice for healing.
Furthermore BoL allows group combinations that wouldn't be possible without it. Without BoL the only valid option as tank in dungeons like vet CoA would be a DK. With BoL I can also do it as a NB-/Sorc-Tank.

DeLindsay

I am a non-Templar Healer. Breath of Life is fine.

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Shields do not benefit from any form of mitigation, whether it be armour/spell resistance or blocking: i.e. a shield always takes full damage no matter what.

That's why Steadfast Ward is much weaker than its numbers suggest compared to Rushed Ceremony.

Are you aboslutely positive of this? It's fine if it's true, just would be nice to be certain.

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

I have a Templar healer as well as other classes. In my oppinion it's fine that Templars have a skill that provides an advantage as healer in certain situations. Other classes have their strenghs in different fights. There are allready fights where Templars are not the best choice for healing.
Furthermore BoL allows group combinations that wouldn't be possible without it. Without BoL the only valid option as tank in dungeons like vet CoA would be a DK. With BoL I can also do it as a NB-/Sorc-Tank.

Not remotely true for Vet CoA. I've ran it with a VR14 NB tank (group leader) and a VR7 Sorc Healer and both our DPS were Vampires. A good group can do just about anything they set their minds to.

Armitas

I agree with everything you said, but I think the problem is that healing ward is not good enough rather than breath of life is too good.

Players behave as if breath of life is available, they run from their healer, stand behind their healer and scatter. A resto staff cannot handle this behavior, You can't chase every member to drop down a blessing. Healing ward will hit them but it only heals one, it takes 6 seconds for that heal to apply and the bubble has no mitigation so its easy to pop which will end in that player getting no heals. All you can do is cast healing ward and chase them down for a blessing, then do the same for the next guy. Meanwhile breath of life just hit 3 people for a heal equivalent to blessing with one burst and no chasing whatsoever.

I cast my vote as healing ward needs to be improved. People simply do not play in a way that is conducive to only a resto staff.

lolo_01b16_ESO

I am a Templar Healer. Breath of Life is fine.

wow, respect. I wouldn't know how to heal the tank and both dps on the titan fight without Breath of Life.

Layenem

I am a non-Templar Healer. Breath of Life is fine.

I love that people automatically jump to the conclusion that something that works must be too good. The problem is that unless you're a Temp Healer you don't have a power for power replacement for BoL... BoL is how it should work, whereas non Temp healers need something to compete with it. A frontal cone heal just isn't the same, not even close. Sure it can effectively heal all players in it which is nice IN THE EVENT that that's happening. Aside from AA and Hel Ra (where sorc healers can solo heal a speed run) this isn't happening that often.

BoL is good, hell it's absolutely perfect in my eyes. Great cost for what it does, and the function had to be tweaked because it wasn't working right for the longest time. Other classes don't have access to it, that's the problem.

ThatHappyCat

I am a Templar Healer. Breath of Life is too good.

Layenem wrote: »

I love that people automatically jump to the conclusion that something that works must be too good. The problem is that unless you're a Temp Healer you don't have a power for power replacement for BoL... BoL is how it should work, whereas non Temp healers need something to compete with it. A frontal cone heal just isn't the same, not even close. Sure it can effectively heal all players in it which is nice IN THE EVENT that that's happening. Aside from AA and Hel Ra (where sorc healers can solo heal a speed run) this isn't happening that often.

BoL is good, hell it's absolutely perfect in my eyes. Great cost for what it does, and the function had to be tweaked because it wasn't working right for the longest time. Other classes don't have access to it, that's the problem.

I think people are so used to BoL at this point they consider it baseline and believe that's how healing should work. Personally, based on Restoration staff skills and what ZoS intended to be the Templar's group healing skill (Healing Ritual), I think ZoS intends for healing to require positioning. BoL essentially erases that.

Overall, I think making healing require more skill and coordination (i.e. Restoration staff healing, and also Healing Ritual-based healing) is a good thing, and encounters should be (and mostly are) balanced around that.

I don't think any healer can deny that Templar healing is easier and requires less skill and coordination than any other class healing (without off-heals). When people tell me I'm a great healer I rarely feel like I deserve it.

whsprwind

Sorc/Dk/Nb healers are fine for most of the content, but for some specific content you just must absolutely have a templar healer.

There is just nothing that can match up to a templar healer simply because of breath of life. Not to mention how easy it is to carry a sub optimal team through vet dungeons as a competent healer.

Pmarsico9

I am a Templar Healer. Breath of Life is fine.

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

cote-bmsb16_ESO wrote: »

In my experience as a templar healer, sometimes stacking grandhealing isnt enough when your tank is getting smashed on by the harder bosses and adds. There are fights where the group cant afford to stay in one spot; BoL saves countless ESO lives every day.

And herein lies a problem. What about non-Templar healers?

I don't necessarily agree with you, but you obviously aren't thinking about healers that don't have access to BoL here.

You are saying Breath of Life is too good but simultaneously state in other threads that Healing Ward is the Resto Staff Oh-*** button. Yet, here you are saying that Breath of Life is too good because it's a better oh *** button.

Do you realize how stupid this is? How idiotic your logic is? Healing Ward isn't a good enough oh-*** button due to how shields work in this game. As @Khivas_Carrick‌ and multiple other people have said:

Rushed Ceremony should be on the resto staff. It's very simple. If it was, then you wouldn't have all these issues.

You persist with this ad-nauseum "Breath of Life is skill-less" notion with your veiled nerf templar BS in multiple threads. It's ridiculous. The misfiring of RC's "Smart Heal" alone could be considered a balancing method.

Where's your nerf Impulse threads? Nerf Crushing Shock threads? Everybody uses it so it's too good?

Should we ignore the fact that Focused Healing and Mending are what ultimately makes Breath of Life amazing? Otherwise it doesn't heal for enough either.

Furthermore, they have said they don't want to nerf DK's, they want to bring other classes up to them. Well here's a prime example of how to execute that logic.

Lastly, if Breath of Life is so OP'd and skilless, do yourself a favor and go spec honor the dead. Then you don't have to complain about it and we don't have to continue reading your garble.

Templars pay major unfair penalties to have Breath of Life, and it's completely unwarranted. If you tried to get a Trials group as a DPS Templar caster you'd find out immediately. And if you went melee, you'd also find out very quickly that the game hates melee overall.

Encounter design is already largely balanced around the presence of BoL in nearly every group undertaking veteran content. Limiting encounter design is a terrible means of fostering creativity from the developers. Their tanking methodology of not having threat already does a great job of that.

So honestly, what's your motivation? If you are an advocate for Templars, then re-think your thought process........if one exists at all. Because right now, I maintain that you don't even play one. You are a pissed off Dragon Knight who got owned in PVP by one because your Molten Whip/Talons/Standard/RS/GDB Joke of a spammed loadout didn't work against somebody who actually knew wtf they were doing with their Templar.

Armitas

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

I think ZoS intends for healing to require positioning. BoL essentially erases that.

That is essentially why the resto fails and people only want templars to heal. Positioning. Though I'd rather healing ward get fixed rather than lose breath of life because some of these fights just don't allow positioning. Some of the problem is that people don't care about positioning because of BoL but some of it is that they can't help their position because of these boss fights.

Pmarsico9

I am a Templar Healer. Breath of Life is fine.

Armitas wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

I think ZoS intends for healing to require positioning. BoL essentially erases that.

That is essentially why the resto fails and people only want templars to heal. Positioning. Though I'd rather healing ward get fixed rather than lose breath of life because some of these fights just don't allow positioning. Some of the problem is that people don't care about positioning because of BoL but some of it is that they can't help their position because of these boss fights.

Exactly. And positional requirements for decent healing throughput screw up the game.

Khivas_Carrick

I am a Templar Healer. Breath of Life is fine.

BoL is fine, and if Resto Staff really is getting that major of a skill overhaul, than switching BoL to the Staff Lines might not needed after all.

Also Crushing Shock needs a Casting Time. Why? Because it hits as hard as skills like Uppercut but instantly. You just press the button and that's it. Also, while I'm here, Uppercut needs a pure damage morph, i.e no knockback or anything, just a raw damaging skill, because Flurry and it's morphs still hits well harder than Uppercut and it's morphs, and I feel that it's because of the side effect debuffs that Uppercut possess, but I digress.

eliisra

I am a Templar Healer. Breath of Life is fine.

It's not to good, but other heals aren't good enough. That goes for both resto- and templar restoring light heals.

Healing on both siphon NB, sorc and templar, when needed, I feel that all skills lines with healing could use a bit of tweaking really.