Suggestions for Improving the Undaunted Pledge Gear Drops

Merrak

Hey all, don't worry, this isn't some rant about how I haven't gotten what I want the very first time I opened a chest, so if you were expecting that, please move along.

Instead, I'm here to talk about how to use the current system to better focus on what matters the most, the gear!

Let's go over the facts:

Undaunted Gear Pieces Have Random Attributes
This is a huge win for just about everyone! Now, instead of one set of gear, you have 3 sets of gear, and the potential to pick up any trait you may ever want/need. The reason this is good is that it adds to the gear grind, but more importantly, gives people the freedom of choice. If you want a specific armor weight with a specific trait, all you have to do is keep grinding for it until you get the piece you are looking for.

2 Piece Set Bonus Helmets Drop From Specific Bosses
Another win, as it gives everyone the chance to grind out bosses on repeat mode until they find the exact piece they are looking for, as mentioned in the section above. The other nice part is that some bosses are early on in the phase, while others are the final boss, which adds some variety to the grind itself.

2 Piece Set Bonus Epaulets Are Random From Gold Key Chests Only
This is a bit of a loss, and I'll tell you why. It would be different if when you open a chest, you are guaranteed one 2 Piece Set piece every time. Unfortunately, that couldn't be further from the truth. When you open the chests, there is a good chance you get a whole Nightwood Staff of nothingness instead, making what was supposed to be a great achievement turn into a wasted trip.

"Of The Undaunted" Specific Gear Is A Great Addition For Any Role
While some of us may never use this gear, the fact that it's Bind on Equip makes it a nice trading piece and the set bonuses are actually pretty decent! Great job on this addition as well!


So as you see, there is a lot of win here, but how can it be improved? Here are my three suggestions!


Change Silver Keys To Give Chance At Purple "Of The Undaunted" Gear
Currently, there is minimal reason to do the non-Vet Pledge unless you are in dire need of the extra Undaunted points. The current drop rate is almost always a blue "Of the Undaunted" set piece, but why not take it a step further? A small boost to these chests may help spur desire to do these Pledges a bit, but more importantly, makes way for the next adjustment on my list.

2 Piece Set Bonus Epaulets Should Have A Guaranteed Drop
So, this is the sticky conversation, right? How do you do this without hurting the replay value of the Gold Key Undaunted Pledges? Let's look at the facts.

• There are 9 Different Sets
• There are 3 Different Armor Weights
• Even if they only used 5 different traits, there are still 135, different combinations of gear drops at play here.

Of all these potential pieces, why discourage players by giving them Purple Voidcloth gear? I would be more encouraged if I got some random piece I will never use that to continue to get junk over and over again. Besides, aren't the Helmets the "Cool Factor" for this gear update?

Decrease The Helmet Drop Rate
Now the balancing act, and the discussion that will surely rustle some jimmies! So you adjust the Epaulets to a reasonable drop, but people are still able to farm bosses over and over until they get a drop. With a guaranteed drop rate on the Epaulets, more people are inclined to continue the grind for gear, which means once they finally get a piece they want, they will heavily grind bosses over and over until they finally find that helmet. With only 1 Set per boss, and 3 Armor Weights, this change reinforced what I mentioned about about the helmets being the "Cool Factor" of this update, so it is ok to make them a little hard to find.

Currently, you can get a group of 4 together, and in an hour, at least 2 of those people have gotten at least 1 helm. While this is a decent drop rate, I've seen a much different drop rate most nights. For instance, I watched one guy bring in 4 helms, while the remaining 3 of us got at least 1 helm each, all in about an hour span. With the changes to the chests, this can be decreased considerably, making them a little more rare, as they should be.


OR - Complete Loot Table Change
The other proposed option would be to remove all of the generic purple gear from the loot table, and perhaps give a slight bump up for Epaulet drops. The generic loot is perhaps one of the most disappointing parts of opening these chests, and what discourages people more than anything. Perhaps this is the best method for a fix?

I strongly believe these changes can be a huge quality of life improvement for the Undaunted Dailies, and will be more encouraging than discouraging to the playerbase itself.

Thank you for reading,
-Merrak

Layenem

I would gladly take this over a sub currency system. While I still wouldn't get the shoulders I wanted any time soon (call me unlucky) at least SEEING something going on is nice as I can hold on to other shoulders for a potential off spec (yeah right lol).

I still prefer a currency system with a high cost for each piece. Giving players a goal to aim for is one of the best ways to keep them coming back every day!

And I agree that the helms need to have a lower drop rate. I've got every helmet and I've only run some of the dungeons 3 times now. CoA twice... If it's that easy to get then it's not going to keep me in the dungeons, as this new system was stated as their goal.

All in all, seeing DPS get my Malubeth's shoulders day after day has actually turned me off to the set all together. It's a slap in the face to go and kick some butt and then come to a chest with a 100% RNG luck factor and a "That's okay, come again tomorrow..."

No. Because tomorrow is the same deal. Once I get Undaunted 8 I won't do another pledge. I don't participate in anything that ends in this much disappointment. Period.

TehMagnus

Just allow crafters level 50 to be able to change traits from loot after doing some crafting writ and it will allll be sooolllveed.

Merrak

magnusnet wrote: »

Just allow crafters level 50 to be able to change traits from loot after doing some crafting writ and it will allll be sooolllveed.

Doesn't fix the broken drop rates of the Epaulets that are completely random.

Layenem

magnusnet wrote: »

Just allow crafters level 50 to be able to change traits from loot after doing some crafting writ and it will allll be sooolllveed.

They've already stated they won't be allowing us to change traits, which is horrible.

Though, it still doesn't resolve the discouraging issue with the luck based drop rate on a 1 time a day chest reward.

I still, for the millionth time, agree that we should be able to change out traits for a high cost.

TehMagnus

Merrak wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

Just allow crafters level 50 to be able to change traits from loot after doing some crafting writ and it will allll be sooolllveed.

Doesn't fix the broken drop rates of the Epaulets that are completely random.

I don't think it's really an issue (IMO). The rate is low because once you get the epaulets you want and the undaunted level 10, there is really no reason to go waste time doing pledges anymore so it's supposed to be a grind that way.

The problem is that you add the low drop rate of the Epaulets combined with the fact you have 1/8 chances of having a decent trait which makes it defacto a real endless grind where only some lucky people will get the Epaulet with divine trait (or impen I guess), which means, almost nobody (at least not people going for optimization) will end up using most of those sets except for the "lulz".

Merrak

magnusnet wrote: »

Merrak wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

Just allow crafters level 50 to be able to change traits from loot after doing some crafting writ and it will allll be sooolllveed.

Doesn't fix the broken drop rates of the Epaulets that are completely random.

I don't think it's really an issue (IMO). The rate is low because once you get the epaulets you want and the undaunted level 10, there is really no reason to go waste time doing pledges anymore so it's supposed to be a grind that way.

The problem is that you add the low drop rate of the Epaulets combined with the fact you have 1/8 chances of having a decent trait which makes it defacto a real endless grind where only some lucky people will get the Epaulet with divine trait (or impen I guess), which means, almost nobody (at least not people going for optimization) will end up using most of those sets except for the "lulz".

I know I'm not the only one who completely disagrees with you on this subject, simply because there is no rhyme or reason to the way it is handled. I'm just supposed to wait for 5 weeks to get a heavy armor DPS piece, then wait another 3+ months until I finally get just the right piece, with the right set bonus, with the right traits before I can equip the set that I would like? That's not replay value, that's broken and truly overblown RNG that actually discourages people from wanting to do them in the first place. If the system stays like it is, more people are likely to just give up on seeking these sets out than they are to keep plugging away at it.

Reread my post. What I suggest is not "gimme what I want now", it is give us a purpose to get a Gold Key. I have guildmates who are already burned out by this system, and would much rather spend their time working on other content than doing the same Vet Content we have had for months now.

TehMagnus

Merrak wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

Merrak wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

Just allow crafters level 50 to be able to change traits from loot after doing some crafting writ and it will allll be sooolllveed.

Doesn't fix the broken drop rates of the Epaulets that are completely random.

I don't think it's really an issue (IMO). The rate is low because once you get the epaulets you want and the undaunted level 10, there is really no reason to go waste time doing pledges anymore so it's supposed to be a grind that way.

The problem is that you add the low drop rate of the Epaulets combined with the fact you have 1/8 chances of having a decent trait which makes it defacto a real endless grind where only some lucky people will get the Epaulet with divine trait (or impen I guess), which means, almost nobody (at least not people going for optimization) will end up using most of those sets except for the "lulz".

I know I'm not the only one who completely disagrees with you on this subject, simply because there is no rhyme or reason to the way it is handled. I'm just supposed to wait for 5 weeks to get a heavy armor DPS piece, then wait another 3+ months until I finally get just the right piece, with the right set bonus, with the right traits before I can equip the set that I would like? That's not replay value, that's broken and truly overblown RNG that actually discourages people from wanting to do them in the first place. If the system stays like it is, more people are likely to just give up on seeking these sets out than they are to keep plugging away at it.

Reread my post. What I suggest is not "gimme what I want now", it is give us a purpose to get a Gold Key. I have guildmates who are already burned out by this system, and would much rather spend their time working on other content than doing the same Vet Content we have had for months now.

There is no bigger discouragement and disappointment for an individual than to loot a very hard piece (in this case the epaulets) and to realize it's completely crap because it's well fitted and in Heavy armor which means they now have to try again, wait for a long time to get lucky and hope for a good trait.

The longest grind here is the grind for the trait + armor type, not the grind for the item. If people can change the trait then it's just loot chance + 30% chance for armor type .

If people can loot a epaulet every time they get a Gold Key, people getting Gold Keys on a daily basis will have the epaulet they want in a matter of weeks and will then loose interest in the pledges.

If you have a chance to get an epaulet for a gold key (and you get like 1 or 2 per week) and you got 30% chance of looting the good armor type, then it becomes a grind but not an endless one. All you gotta do is run the VR dungeons once a day till you're lucky while knowing you actually have a chance and it will take a bit longer than the other way.

At last, the headset grind nerf would be unfair since some people like me already have all the heads we want from the bosses.

Merrak

I don't think you get the point of what is suggested, and that's ok. I'm going to say thank you for your input and respectfully disagree with you.

TehMagnus

Merrak wrote: »

I don't think you get the point of what is suggested, and that's ok. I'm going to say thank you for your input and respectfully disagree with you.

I do get the point, you want everybody to loot the epaulets easily, get them in a few weeks and stop doing the undaunted pledges after 2 months and move the grind away from the pledges to the dungeon itself while grinding for the headset.

I really don't see how that will help the community and get random people together raiding which is what ZOS has achieved with this since you'll have people who haven't looted the epaulets yet who can't find people to group with to do the dailies and you'll have groups raiding the same dungeon over and over again (booooooriiiiinngg at least with dailies it changes) just to get one head set piece with all the elitism that comes along "you're stamina we're grinding the boss as fast as possible so you're no good for us ty for asking" => kick from party.

Awesome changes compared to what is going on atm, I see flows of people agreeing with you.

Merrak

With 150+ combinations of the Epaulets, how exactly is that "easy"? Why? Because with the current system if I grind every single day, I should have to wait a month to get a Medium Armor tanking piece that has a Well Fitted trait, change my entire gear around it, then wait another 5 months for the exact Heavy Armor piece with Divines that I hope I will some day hope to get?

Yet you want people to be able to loot any piece and take it to a crafter to "fix" it for them? Yet that system would have absolutely no negative impact of the amount of time people would grind for this? Think again.

The fact is, the randomness of the gear is actually a welcomed improvement. ZOS has already said they will not change it for crafters to "fix", as you put it, and I completely agree that they shouldn't. The gear randomness is not broken, but the drop rates are.

If the majority players look at this system and think that something is wrong, what makes you think someone who is even the slightest bit casual will be doing this for more than a couple times ever?

Yes, people would get gear in a matter of weeks...not months. Some of us have done these every single day, and never once gotten a drop of the set we are looking for, let alone the Armor/Trait we would want. And those that are specifically going after Undaunted 10 don't care so much about the gear, and likewise there are people going after the gear who really don't care so much about that level.

Either way you look at it, this is an MMO and as luck would have it, people will tire of doing these in a week or two to begin with, then best of luck ever getting them. These dailies are just a hold over for more content. Even if they keep doing "Gear Seasons" like they are talking about doing after the Champion System, it will only buy you time for so long.

AnoVando

I agree with you Merrak. Even with getting the gold key 3 or 4 days a week (a lot of people don't have the time to grind every day) on my main and alt I'm still looking at several weeks to get the epaulets I want. Also, considering I want one set for one of my characters and another for my other it will more likely be months before I find the ones I want. By that time there will likely be more dungeons/dailies/sets in the mix. There is already a decline in the number of people doing the dailies, and not because they've all gotten what they want already. Most people don't see the point in doing them when all they get is purple crafting mats (basically). Way more people would start doing the dailies if they were guaranteed an epaulet ( I would settle for at least a 50-60% chance), as opposed to 5-10%.

whsprwind

Getting your desired sets right now is just too based on luck. No matter how much effort you put in the game, there is a chance you will never get what you want

I personally prefer a high cost token system but, the OP's suggestion is really good too. At least theres a good chance i will end up with the piece I want even if not the right weight/trait

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Thread Bumping]

Merrak

I am much like the others here and feel a token system works best. However, the purpose of me making this thread is to find a fast solution that would save on team resources for making this happen. It would work off the current system, and all they would have to do is change the loot tables instead.

To me, the simpler solution just makes sense.

TehMagnus

Merrak wrote: »

I am much like the others here and feel a token system works best. However, the purpose of me making this thread is to find a fast solution that would save on team resources for making this happen. It would work off the current system, and all they would have to do is change the loot tables instead.

To me, the simpler solution just makes sense.

Also agree that the token system would be ideal since eventually, everybody would get what they want.

Even if I don't really like your proposed ideas (automatic loot of epaulet mainly), I do agree this should be discussed because the grind is really endless and I doubt anybody will actually try to get the sets as is... Moreover, the undaunted passive for wearing different kinds of armor is too weak compared to what you actually loose..

AlnilamE

I don't think it matters that the stuff form the Silver chest is blue. If it's the one you want, you can easily improve it to Purple or Gold.

Merrak

AlnilamE wrote: »

I don't think it matters that the stuff form the Silver chest is blue. If it's the one you want, you can easily improve it to Purple or Gold.

You are right, it doesn't, however, the purpose of moving it is so that we aren't just getting junk every single time we open a chest with a Gold Key.

@magnusnet, what do you think about having the "Of The Undaunted" purple and the Epaulets being the only things that drop in those chests? Would that be an easier pill to swallow for you?

TehMagnus

Merrak wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

I don't think it matters that the stuff form the Silver chest is blue. If it's the one you want, you can easily improve it to Purple or Gold.

You are right, it doesn't, however, the purpose of moving it is so that we aren't just getting junk every single time we open a chest with a Gold Key.

@magnusnet, what do you think about having the "Of The Undaunted" purple and the Epaulets being the only things that drop in those chests? Would that be an easier pill to swallow for you?

Yes sir ^^, still, for me, the biggest issue in all of this, is the traits >_<. I saw someone post earlier that we would never be able to change them and I find that very thad