A Noobs tale of PVP by Pinot Noir

stumpy999

OK, so before anybody gets all upset by any comments I make below, I am an absolute novice to pvp and what I suggest may be completely wrong. No worries. This is just my early impressions and ideas. Beware - Long Post

Enough prevarication, onwards! (which way? - a recurring theme in pvp)

For those of you that haven't tried pvp, don't be shy, it can be fun. That is if you don't take things too seriously.

Last week I thought my latest toon, a templar, was murdering the pve content. Soloing World Bosses in a level above my rank and soloing dolmens with named leaders. I made VR6 in about 2 weeks and thought, right, I'm going to give cyrodill a good seeing to. A guildie gave me a tour on an AD toon and I liked it.

So still in my pve gear, with pve skills on my bar, I joined Thornblade as DC's latest recruit. Now when you first arrive there is nobody about that will give you an easy ride. Pvp is populated with VR14 hardcore nuts and clueless wonders like yourself. Most of the time you will not know what is going on - First point

Let it Go - You are not in control, it will not react like you are expecting, you will get owned and not know why. Just embrace it an move on.

There is a little quest you can do, play with some siege stuff and get some freebies. Well worth doing. Then, if you have unlocked the bounty hunter trait, you can pick up a kill mission. OK sorted, lets go and sort out the AD and EP axis of evil.

Lingo point - Smurfs = DC, Bananas = AD, Tomatoes = EP. So when somebody yells -Tomatoes in the woods being chased by Bananas!! - you don't sniff your drink.

Lots of guys typing lfg, Look for Group, I have no idea if they on my side or not and so I just do the same. Now after about 20 groups I feel a bit of a veteran. You don't get much info from group, and there's nothing resembling a command or rank structure but, hey ***, I can follow them on the map and at least know where a fight is. I was following one guy, a VR14 corporal, and he was following me as he thought I knew something. Hilarious.

So you have a curious state where you are watching to see what folk do and if it takes your fancy doing the same. This can lead to some comedy moments like a silent movie.

Next up some tactics and lessons learned via dying a lot.

First off, if you have a siege projectile weapon, don't aim it at the door. It also helps to aim it where other folk are aiming there lobbers.

Healers - you can earn loads of points with a crafty healer - I am surprised nightblade healers are not dynastic emperors.

Next handy hit, always pack a Camp, or forward command post as they are known. If you res and the tent disappears, set yours up. Don't moan in chat about the lack of a camp if you never bring one.

OK - Moving on to my gear and skills. You will get hit a lot, so pack the best armour you can. You will need protection from criticals.

Getting the Horn - Having the horn gives you 500 health, no idea on the how or why of this but getting the horn is a huge plus.

Stats and skills - Now I arrived with kit designed for spell damage and 10/39 health magika split with a resto staff and sword and board.

I still have the resto staff, and the shield but my kit has been swapped out and I am seriously thinking of going 49 health, or even 10/29/10. Why? Da f... you say?

Simply put I run out of stamina most often, especially if they packing a lot of DK's with talons. My overlordship of pve was based on damage output. This isn't pve so I need a bit of a re-think. That's still work in progress.

I have tried the blazing shield, blinding gizmo's etc that templar threads rave about but I died faster than with just immovable and don't have the health to hurt with BS.

So I use the healing stuff on the staff plus rapid maneuvers, a nice anti CC tool, and on the shield bar I use all sorts of nonsense to try to confuse the bad guys but always magelight. I don't care about the crits it's the detection that is golden.

Tactically I try to find a DK that has waded in and looks a bit low on resources,note, these guys pack an absolutely epic tank so engage them knowing that. Sometimes I hide and wait for a NB to try something sneaky and jump him when he's not looking etc. Sometimes you just wade in for the hell of it. Sorcerers are pesky with their bolt escape and if you can find a templar then you are in with a chance of him being as bad as you.

Sneaking is king, blocking and rolling a must. If you can then pick your targets. If you can't then die hard. In fact either way die hard.

This is important, if the bad guys are wasting cycles killing you then they are not running rotation on your buddy. So spam that heal, block like a king, roll, dodge, anything that ties them up. Most of the time you are not going to get away and win, you are going for a tent trip. So make it count. Your group may kill that annoying batswarming sucker after all

So TL:DR

new gear, cc kills, don't stand there, and your pve skills suck

I'm having a ball, not a clue but it's furious fun

Surfinginhawaii

Nice and oftentimes funny post . Don't forget to put the impenetrable trait on most if not all of your armor.

Gedalya

I do not think you understand the meaning of the word "prevarication".

In general you hit the nail on the head; new players are easily lost in PvP as there is little to guide them. It would be nice if there was more to the tutorial; and for low level players perhaps a bump in the direction of the pre-vet campaign (not to say it should be required but to just point out it exists).

stumpy999

trust me, for the playstation generation, 3 lines of indulgent opening without getting to the main point counts as prevarication - if only with my inner dialog.

I'm not sure tutorials are the way to go, maybe guilds or guys taking roles in an alliance command structure, not sure, a tough one as folks can tire quickly of new guys asking the same stuff over and over

Akula

stumpy999 wrote: »

That is if you don't take things too seriously.

Been preaching this for years, but unfortunately it will fall on deaf ears. PVErs dont understand that when you enter pvp you are no longer in god mode. You are no longer fighting dumb mobs that do the same thing over and over again. Unlike pve, you will die and you will die a lot...even when you play "perfectly". You have to have thick skin and pvers coming to pvp become a bit shell shocked by this reality.

MornaBaine

What has always baffled me about MMOs is WHY builds for PvE and PvP need to be completely different. Yet, not a damn one of them actually allows for this. You get to build your character for one or the other but not both. And then they make respeccing completely ridiculous if not downright impossible. And THEN they wonder why there are two sharply divided camps, PvEers and PvPers who end up with a ton of animosity towards each other and are completely convinced that anything done for the one side is to the detriment of the other side. I can't just blame ZoS for this because apparently every MMO maker since the dawn of the genre is guilty of the same stupidity.

Nestor

stumpy999 wrote: »

I'm not sure tutorials are the way to go, maybe guilds or guys taking roles in an alliance command structure, not sure, a tough one as folks can tire quickly of new guys asking the same stuff over and over

It could work if the tutorial was in say an instanced cell that people could try things out, not to gain exp or AP but to just know how to do things in an actual combat situation.

stumpy999

that could work, certainly for the basic skills, but I think there is a social element missing

Nestor

MornaBaine wrote: »

You get to build your character for one or the other but not both. And then they make respeccing completely ridiculous if not downright impossible. And THEN they wonder why there are two sharply divided camps, PvEers and PvPers

These differences will exist no matter what. PvP folks have a different attitude and viewpoint on the game than PvE.

stumpy999

There are a lot more of the suckers too. Screen is full of them in a massive zerg train bait ball.

You gotta pick your prey from out of that storm......

MornaBaine

Nestor wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

You get to build your character for one or the other but not both. And then they make respeccing completely ridiculous if not downright impossible. And THEN they wonder why there are two sharply divided camps, PvEers and PvPers

These differences will exist no matter what. PvP folks have a different attitude and viewpoint on the game than PvE.

True. But it seems to me the answer is then to give us the ability to slot 2 different builds, one for PvP and one for PvE. Then when you log in to Cyrodil, you automatically flip to your PvP build. We shouldn't have to CHOOSE "which game" we are going to play. We're paying for the whole thing.

stumpy999

I like the dual build idea, that way I can pve as well when I fancy and do stuff with guildies that are not into pvp

Aeratus

I was following one guy, a VR14 corporal, and he was following me as he thought I knew something. Hilarious.

He was following you because a ganker will hit you first, not him. The one who rides in the front in a small group is basically the gank bait.

stumpy999

cool! I thought they picked off the squishy guys at the back. We have slower horses

Resueht

MornaBaine wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

You get to build your character for one or the other but not both. And then they make respeccing completely ridiculous if not downright impossible. And THEN they wonder why there are two sharply divided camps, PvEers and PvPers

These differences will exist no matter what. PvP folks have a different attitude and viewpoint on the game than PvE.

True. But it seems to me the answer is then to give us the ability to slot 2 different builds, one for PvP and one for PvE. Then when you log in to Cyrodil, you automatically flip to your PvP build. We shouldn't have to CHOOSE "which game" we are going to play. We're paying for the whole thing.

I think in an upcoming content puch (1.6 maybe?) they are adding a way to save builds, so when you load into Cyro you just load in your saved skill set (and maybe armor) and youre ready to go, and vice versa.

stumpy999

nice

freespirit

stumpy999 wrote: »

cool! I thought they picked off the squishy guys at the back. We have slower horses

Whenever I PVP I'm always the 'squishy gal at the back' on the exceedingly 'fat and slow' horse........

and Guildies used to shout out and warn me I was about to die.........

Now I just hear the muffled giggling right before I end up staring skywards!!

DarkAedin

awesome read OP, keep up the good work!

bellanca6561n

Stumpy...I love the way your write. I love the way you look at online gaming.

SienneYviete

MornaBaine wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

You get to build your character for one or the other but not both. And then they make respeccing completely ridiculous if not downright impossible. And THEN they wonder why there are two sharply divided camps, PvEers and PvPers

These differences will exist no matter what. PvP folks have a different attitude and viewpoint on the game than PvE.

True. But it seems to me the answer is then to give us the ability to slot 2 different builds, one for PvP and one for PvE. Then when you log in to Cyrodil, you automatically flip to your PvP build. We shouldn't have to CHOOSE "which game" we are going to play. We're paying for the whole thing.

While not an official thing, Wykkyds outfitter addon has this feature and is highly recommended. The ability to save custom gear and skill loadouts which can be switched on the fly (except if you're in combat ofc) setting up multiple trial/pvp/pve builds are an absolute breeze.