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VAMPIRES NEED LOVE
MornaBaine
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VAMPIRES NEED LOVE
I DO fully realize that Werewolves need even more love but I will leave that case to be made by those who are more knowledgeable about the class than I. And apparently a much needed overhaul is coming anyway. So I will be focusing upon my beloved bloodsuckers. I ALSO realize that "too many" people play Vampires. So a post detailing what I feel we need to make them simply MORE FUN to play may NOT be greeted all that warmly by those firmly in the "THERE ARE TOO MANY VAMPS ALREADY!" camp. On the other hand, much of what I would like to propose might cause a lot of folks, who currently play Vampires for their perceived PvP advantages, no longer be willing to play them...which would be just fine with me. But then again, maybe not. And my point isn't trying to figure out how to "thin" the vampire population in the first place. Frankly, it's unbearably elitist to tell people, "YOU shouldn't be able to play this type of character because you don't 'do it right' as far as I'm concerned!" So read on and judge for yourself.
Vampires, as they currently exist in ESO, are nothing other than another skill line, rather like the Undaunted. You get some different spells, some buffs and some debuffs. Sadly, there is NOTHING about the vampire skill line that makes it feel like you're playing a vampire, not even vampires as presented in the ES games that preceded this MMO. THAT is what I want to change. So here are my suggestions:
1. Give us back the ability to feed on sleeping NPCS! Yes, put some sleeping folk here and there in towns that our vampires have a chance to snack on and escape without waking them. If they do wake, either the fight is on or they scream for the guard...and the fight is on if we can't get away fast enough. This mechanic would be a beautiful potential part of the justice system.
2. Kick us out of the Undaunted. There is no way this rollicking group of monster hunters is going to let A MONSTER be part of their brotherhood. You want to be a vampire? No Undaunted skill line for you! The only caveat here is that vampires SHOULD have their own Persuade and Intimidate abilities. Why? Because they're VAMPIRES! What could be more terrifyingly intimidating or hypnotically persuasive? In addition, the Undaunted should be actively HOSTILE towards vampires. And as experienced monster hunters, yes they should know what you are! So you can't buy them drinks! If you try to talk to them, they should insult you. If you're Stage 4, they should actually attack you!
3. STOP making my vampire yell like an idiot for no apparent reason every time they turn into mist!!! And IMPROVE its animation. Make it actually LOOK like mist or fog. Get rid of the dumb red streaks it has in it since I morphed it.
4. Add an invisibility skill like the one Nightblades have and make the nighttime bonuses better and more noticeable. Right now I can scarcely tell the difference between playing my vamp during the day or at night. I'd be okay with making the daylight disadvantages worse IF day and night were of equal length and daylight disadvantages did not apply when in dungeons or buildings (i.e. away from sunlight exposure).
5. CHANGE THE COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS FEEDING ANIMATION! Seriously, whoever came up with that needs a boot to the head. To feed vampires have to sneak up on someone from behind. So why can't my vampire then jump on them and bite their neck? Yes, I KNOW that is a more complex animation than the horrible one we got foisted off on us but there's really no reason it CAN'T be done.
6. Give us preternatural speed. No, I'm STILL not over what you did to Night's Silence. No, I don't care that people cried about a perk that had ZERO impact on PvP. Give it back.
7. Change the Stages timeline. At a MINIMUM make Stage 1 last 2 hours. The feeding schedule required to maintain Stage 1 is completely ridiculous and illogical.
8. Give us an illusion skill that allows us to make our vampires look as they did BEFORE becoming vampires that lasts up through Stage 3 but disappears the moment a vampire hits Stage 4. You can even make it to where you have to be back to Stage 1 before it can be reapplied.
9. Have NPCs REACT to us being vampires at Stage 3. Bring back the spooked and/or insulting comments of the townsfolk. Make there be a random chance that vendors will refuse to deal with us (but the vendor the next stall over will be fine, this should just be an inconvenience, not a bar from content) and that guards will try to arrest us and either have to be persuaded or intimidated(or bribed!) into letting us go. It would be FANTASTIC if we could be thrown out of taverns and refused service.
10. Make Stage 4 have meaningful adverse consequences in towns. KoS to guards, townsfolk either flee or attack. Make there be inconveniently located vendors outside of towns that WILL deal with Stage 4 vampires, possibly at a higher price. Exempt vampires in Cyrodil from this.
11. Vampire only emotes. These NEED to happen! LOL 1) Snarl 2) Lunge 3)Mistform (the vampire dissolves into mist and remains a cloud of mist while WALKING but animation breaks when you run normally) 4) Vanish (the vampire actually vanishes and becomes invisible and this is maintained even while walking but breaks on normal run) 5) Cloudofbats (vampire briefly becomes a cloud of bats) 6)Vamplaugh (yes I want an evil sounding laugh where my vamp throws back their head and their fangs totally show as they laugh! Doooo eeeeet ZoS!!!)
12. Bat pet. Yes, a vanity pet that is a bat, only available to vampires, that will flit about them when activated. Even better if it's 2 or 3 bats!
As you can see, a lot of this is just fluff... but it's fluff that adds to immersion and makes it actually feel like you are playing a vampire instead of just a regular person with a bad skin condition. Some of it might actually make playing a vampire harder...but that's a good thing.
I DO fully realize that Werewolves need even more love but I will leave that case to be made by those who are more knowledgeable about the class than I. And apparently a much needed overhaul is coming anyway. So I will be focusing upon my beloved bloodsuckers. I ALSO realize that "too many" people play Vampires. So a post detailing what I feel we need to make them simply MORE FUN to play may NOT be greeted all that warmly by those firmly in the "THERE ARE TOO MANY VAMPS ALREADY!" camp. On the other hand, much of what I would like to propose might cause a lot of folks, who currently play Vampires for their perceived PvP advantages, no longer be willing to play them...which would be just fine with me. But then again, maybe not. And my point isn't trying to figure out how to "thin" the vampire population in the first place. Frankly, it's unbearably elitist to tell people, "YOU shouldn't be able to play this type of character because you don't 'do it right' as far as I'm concerned!" So read on and judge for yourself.
Vampires, as they currently exist in ESO, are nothing other than another skill line, rather like the Undaunted. You get some different spells, some buffs and some debuffs. Sadly, there is NOTHING about the vampire skill line that makes it feel like you're playing a vampire, not even vampires as presented in the ES games that preceded this MMO. THAT is what I want to change. So here are my suggestions:
1. Give us back the ability to feed on sleeping NPCS! Yes, put some sleeping folk here and there in towns that our vampires have a chance to snack on and escape without waking them. If they do wake, either the fight is on or they scream for the guard...and the fight is on if we can't get away fast enough. This mechanic would be a beautiful potential part of the justice system.
2. Kick us out of the Undaunted. There is no way this rollicking group of monster hunters is going to let A MONSTER be part of their brotherhood. You want to be a vampire? No Undaunted skill line for you! The only caveat here is that vampires SHOULD have their own Persuade and Intimidate abilities. Why? Because they're VAMPIRES! What could be more terrifyingly intimidating or hypnotically persuasive? In addition, the Undaunted should be actively HOSTILE towards vampires. And as experienced monster hunters, yes they should know what you are! So you can't buy them drinks! If you try to talk to them, they should insult you. If you're Stage 4, they should actually attack you!
3. STOP making my vampire yell like an idiot for no apparent reason every time they turn into mist!!! And IMPROVE its animation. Make it actually LOOK like mist or fog. Get rid of the dumb red streaks it has in it since I morphed it.
4. Add an invisibility skill like the one Nightblades have and make the nighttime bonuses better and more noticeable. Right now I can scarcely tell the difference between playing my vamp during the day or at night. I'd be okay with making the daylight disadvantages worse IF day and night were of equal length and daylight disadvantages did not apply when in dungeons or buildings (i.e. away from sunlight exposure).
5. CHANGE THE COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS FEEDING ANIMATION! Seriously, whoever came up with that needs a boot to the head. To feed vampires have to sneak up on someone from behind. So why can't my vampire then jump on them and bite their neck? Yes, I KNOW that is a more complex animation than the horrible one we got foisted off on us but there's really no reason it CAN'T be done.
6. Give us preternatural speed. No, I'm STILL not over what you did to Night's Silence. No, I don't care that people cried about a perk that had ZERO impact on PvP. Give it back.
7. Change the Stages timeline. At a MINIMUM make Stage 1 last 2 hours. The feeding schedule required to maintain Stage 1 is completely ridiculous and illogical.
8. Give us an illusion skill that allows us to make our vampires look as they did BEFORE becoming vampires that lasts up through Stage 3 but disappears the moment a vampire hits Stage 4. You can even make it to where you have to be back to Stage 1 before it can be reapplied.
9. Have NPCs REACT to us being vampires at Stage 3. Bring back the spooked and/or insulting comments of the townsfolk. Make there be a random chance that vendors will refuse to deal with us (but the vendor the next stall over will be fine, this should just be an inconvenience, not a bar from content) and that guards will try to arrest us and either have to be persuaded or intimidated(or bribed!) into letting us go. It would be FANTASTIC if we could be thrown out of taverns and refused service.
10. Make Stage 4 have meaningful adverse consequences in towns. KoS to guards, townsfolk either flee or attack. Make there be inconveniently located vendors outside of towns that WILL deal with Stage 4 vampires, possibly at a higher price. Exempt vampires in Cyrodil from this.
11. Vampire only emotes. These NEED to happen! LOL 1) Snarl 2) Lunge 3)Mistform (the vampire dissolves into mist and remains a cloud of mist while WALKING but animation breaks when you run normally) 4) Vanish (the vampire actually vanishes and becomes invisible and this is maintained even while walking but breaks on normal run) 5) Cloudofbats (vampire briefly becomes a cloud of bats) 6)Vamplaugh (yes I want an evil sounding laugh where my vamp throws back their head and their fangs totally show as they laugh! Doooo eeeeet ZoS!!!)
12. Bat pet. Yes, a vanity pet that is a bat, only available to vampires, that will flit about them when activated. Even better if it's 2 or 3 bats!
As you can see, a lot of this is just fluff... but it's fluff that adds to immersion and makes it actually feel like you are playing a vampire instead of just a regular person with a bad skin condition. Some of it might actually make playing a vampire harder...but that's a good thing.
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reften✭✭✭✭✭As a vamp, I disagree with most of this except this one10. Make Stage 4 have meaningful adverse consequences in towns. KoS to guards, townsfolk either flee or attack. Make there be inconveniently located vendors outside of towns that WILL deal with Stage 4 vampires, possibly at a higher price. Exempt vampires in Cyrodil from this.
There needs to be more consequences in game to make it more of pros/cons thing. Give vamps a special vamp only questing area for VR10+, stage 4 vamps only but make stage 4 a KoS for most towns.
Reften
Bosmer (Wood Elf)
Moonlight Crew (RIP), Misfitz (RIP), Victorem Guild
VR16 NB, Stam build, Max all crafts.
Azuras & Trueflame. Mostly PvP, No alts.
Semi-retired till the lag is fixed.
Love the Packers, Bourbon, and ESO...one of those will eventually kill me. -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ana.radu85eb17_ESO wrote: »Are u serious? I feel like u are making fun of US (human beings)
Mebbe... >.> -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As a vamp, I disagree with most of this except this one10. Make Stage 4 have meaningful adverse consequences in towns. KoS to guards, townsfolk either flee or attack. Make there be inconveniently located vendors outside of towns that WILL deal with Stage 4 vampires, possibly at a higher price. Exempt vampires in Cyrodil from this.
There needs to be more consequences in game to make it more of pros/cons thing. Give vamps a special vamp only questing area for VR10+, stage 4 vamps only but make stage 4 a KoS for most towns.
Oh! Love that idea! -
Nihili✭✭✭I like a lot of what you're saying, but I wholly disagree that Vamps should get an invisibility ability like NB's. The ONE thing that is amazingly good to the weak NB class (and we can't even use it so well due to broken-ness) you want to make available to anyone who becomes a vampire? ...Just no man. Secondly, 6) the speed thing is pretty cool - but vamps already have stealth penalty cancelling and elusive mist. If you really want improved speed, petition a bigger speed buff when using elusive mist. Point 2 is already a very discussed topic, I don't think it was necessary to even include it here. Justice system might have some impact and that. I won't comment on the other stuff; I disagree and agree with a lot, but the three points I really wanted to discuss are above. -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pls just let zenimax fix the game first
STANDARD DISCLAIMER: I am NOT saying "ZoS do this now or I'm unsubbbing!" nor am I saying, "ZoS do this BEFORE fixing important issues XYZ!" IF ZoS were to implement any of this it would obviously be up to ZoS to determine how and when. So all posts along the lines of "NOOO! ZoS has to deal with "XYZ" that is more important first!" will be ignored. I hope the rest of you with meaningful contributions will simply ignore those (sadly inevitable) posts as well. This is the only one I will respond to. Thank you. -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I like a lot of what you're saying, but I wholly disagree that Vamps should get an invisibility ability like NB's. The ONE thing that is amazingly good to the weak NB class (and we can't even use it so well due to broken-ness) you want to make available to anyone who becomes a vampire? ...Just no man. Secondly, 6) the speed thing is pretty cool - but vamps already have stealth penalty cancelling and elusive mist. If you really want improved speed, petition a bigger speed buff when using elusive mist. Point 2 is already a very discussed topic, I don't think it was necessary to even include it here. Justice system might have some impact and that. I won't comment on the other stuff; I disagree and agree with a lot, but the three points I really wanted to discuss are above.
I get what you're saying about the NB invisibility. My vamp is a Sorcerer, my husband's is a NB and let me tell you something, feeding for him is a BREEZE compared to how it is for me! It's a HUGE discrepancy and that's why I feel it should be a vamp ability. That said, NB's should totally have a better, longer lasting invisibility skill. And yes, that class DESPERATELY needs love as well. And I want them to get it. But I don't see the logic in saying, "Well THIS class sucks more so DON'T improve THAT class!" -
helediron✭✭✭✭✭
✭I like the OP ideas. Hel Ra and Arena cured my vampirism, but i am planning to turn one alt to a vamp. More RP-like vamp would be fun.
I also still wonder about the Night Silence nerf without reason. All it needed was a better animation.On hiatus. PC,EU,AD - crafting completionist - @helediron 900+ cp, @helestor 1000+ cp, @helestar 800+ cp, @helester 700+ cp - Dragonborn Z Suomikilta, Harrods, Master Crafter. - Blog - Crafthouse: all stations, all munduses, all dummies, open to everyone -
Sav72✭✭✭✭✭Great Post...Totally Agree...
Great games have Great Vanity options... I also Hate the Feeding animation,,,
Feeding should cause damage and would love to see it as a ability on the hot bar, It would be used so much more..Savoifair, EP NB
If you break something, you can glue it back together and fix it, but, it will always be broken... -
Nihili✭✭✭"MornaBaine wrote: »
I get what you're saying about the NB invisibility. My vamp is a Sorcerer, my husband's is a NB and let me tell you something, feeding for him is a BREEZE compared to how it is for me! It's a HUGE discrepancy and that's why I feel it should be a vamp ability. That said, NB's should totally have a better, longer lasting invisibility skill. And yes, that class DESPERATELY needs love as well. And I want them to get it. But I don't see the logic in saying, "Well THIS class sucks more so DON'T improve THAT class!"
Hey I suppose that's right I wasn't really trying to say "don't improve that class because mine sucks" but rather "don't further entrench the imbalance between classes by taking what's strong of one class and sharing it to other already strong classes." Are you more of a PvE player than a PvP player? If so, you might not find this very important, but can you imagine how imbalanced it would be if a DK can use a invisibility skill at his beck and call when they're already so hard to beat? Or can you imagine if every class could use Bolt escape just by joining the Mages Guild? Or if any class can use Dark Talons by joining the Fighter Guild? By doing that, every class that is already overpowered will have the opportunity to further entrench that imbalance by just taking the best skill of another class. That's my two cents at least :P
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MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Great Post...Totally Agree...
Great games have Great Vanity options... I also Hate the Feeding animation,,,
Feeding should cause damage and would love to see it as a ability on the hot bar, It would be used so much more..
Basically the Drain ability has the same lame animation. I would freaking LOVE to see my vampire close with her opponent and grapple them down and feed on them during a fight! If they want to keep feeding separate from it I'm okay with that as I like the idea that a vampire CAN feed from someone without killing them. But as it stands now feeding automatically starts a fight to the death anyway so it seems pointless to have it cause no damage. It becomes cool IF your vampire stands a chance of sneaking off (either using invisibility to escape OR feeding on sleeping people without waking them) and I don't understand why that chance doesn't exist. -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This obviously explains why 75% of the population in PvP is a vampire. its so bad that almost everyone uses it.
vampires do not need "love" in my opinion. They do fine as it is. the batswarm spam is insane, you get alot of magicka regain, increased movement speed in stealth, and the only trade off, is for a weakness to fire, which can easily be mitigated by fire resistance enchantments, or rolling a dunmer.Edited by Cody on October 7, 2014 4:25PM -
PBpsy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This obviously explains why 75% of the population in PvP is a vampire. its so bad that almost everyone uses it.
I thought it was a conspiracy to make the Silver Bolts proc chance seem actually useful.ESO forums achievementsProud fanboiElitist jerkTrollHaterFan of icontested(rainbow colors granted) -
bosmern_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭The over hual for WW wont be enough. As long as it costs 700 ultimate (which could always be used for a much better ultimate) to transform into a WW for about 2 minutes they will always be under powered.~Thallen~ -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭bosmern_ESO wrote: »The over hual for WW wont be enough. As long as it costs 700 ultimate (which could always be used for a much better ultimate) to transform into a WW for about 2 minutes they will always be under powered.
as long as WW costs ultimate to transform, I wont be using it.
there are far better ultimates as of now
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MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This obviously explains why 75% of the population in PvP is a vampire. its so bad that almost everyone uses it.
vampires do not need "love" in my opinion. They do fine as it is. the batswarm spam is insane, you get alot of magicka regain, increased movement speed in stealth, and the only trade off, is for a weakness to fire, which can easily be mitigated by fire resistance enchantments, or rolling a dunmer.
I'm trying to figure out how my post "explains" what you are claiming. Can you elaborate? I also am not asking for anything for PvP nor even anything that would probably affect it so I'm really unsure of what your point it other than, "Vampires are OP in PvP and I don't like it." That topic, of course, is covered in depth in numerous other threads. -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »I'm trying to figure out how my post "explains" what you are claiming. Can you elaborate? I also am not asking for anything for PvP nor even anything that would probably affect it so I'm really unsure of what your point it other than, "Vampires are OP in PvP and I don't like it." That topic, of course, is covered in depth in numerous other threads.
It's simple marketing.
If you make an awesome class or spec or skill line (like vampirism) people will join it a lot. This greatly amplifies the number of those who later will try PvP and will just say: "wow, this is awesome in PvE and borderline overpowered in PvP, I am going to play vamp forever and also tell to my friends".
Result: instead of 70% PvP vamps we get 95% vamps, for MOAR bats spam.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO -
Muizer✭✭✭✭✭I think Vampire hunters need love too. That we have to tolerate them in our own alliances is unbearable. I propose ZoS allow us to roam PvP faction-less and kill vampires wherever they are.
I mean from a purely RPG point of view of course. Nothing personal against vampire players.Edited by Muizer on October 7, 2014 5:29PMPlease stop making requests for game features. ZOS have enough bad ideas as it is! -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »I'm trying to figure out how my post "explains" what you are claiming. Can you elaborate? I also am not asking for anything for PvP nor even anything that would probably affect it so I'm really unsure of what your point it other than, "Vampires are OP in PvP and I don't like it." That topic, of course, is covered in depth in numerous other threads.
It's simple marketing.
If you make an awesome class or spec or skill line (like vampirism) people will join it a lot. This greatly amplifies the number of those who later will try PvP and will just say: "wow, this is awesome in PvE and borderline overpowered in PvP, I am going to play vamp forever and also tell to my friends".
Result: instead of 70% PvP vamps we get 95% vamps, for MOAR bats spam.
I don't know man... I may want more vamps in PvP, it would make it just that much easier for me to get kills with my bolts and Hunter. It's easy enough already, but if I could get those procs on EVERYONE more or less guaranteed...
And that's not even counting FG passives and fire damage.
Easymode man.Edited by Shunravi on October 7, 2014 6:04PMThis one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll! -
Leeric✭✭✭✭As a vamp, I disagree with most of this except this one10. Make Stage 4 have meaningful adverse consequences in towns. KoS to guards, townsfolk either flee or attack. Make there be inconveniently located vendors outside of towns that WILL deal with Stage 4 vampires, possibly at a higher price. Exempt vampires in Cyrodil from this.
There needs to be more consequences in game to make it more of pros/cons thing. Give vamps a special vamp only questing area for VR10+, stage 4 vamps only but make stage 4 a KoS for most towns.
That is a terrible suggestion. Stage 4 should not be KoS. Good thing you don't work for ZOS. -
Kewljag_66_ESO✭✭✭✭✭In Short..
nerf batswarm, its too strong in every aspect and better than almost every class ultimate for any situation.
buff the rest of the vampire line. -
Voodoo✭✭✭✭I not only agree with the undaunted but more specifically the fighters guild! I can almost see the undaunted as having a vampire amongst them since they are about exploring the deepest darkest areas of tamerial, but the fighters guild should be off limits to any vampire. Hell even throw the undaunted in there as well. Want to be a vampire? No fighters guild or undaunted for you.
And great ideas OP. I do think the vampire class is nothing more than another set of skills and thats it. Boring, and unrealistic even for a game. -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »I'm trying to figure out how my post "explains" what you are claiming. Can you elaborate? I also am not asking for anything for PvP nor even anything that would probably affect it so I'm really unsure of what your point it other than, "Vampires are OP in PvP and I don't like it." That topic, of course, is covered in depth in numerous other threads.
It's simple marketing.
If you make an awesome class or spec or skill line (like vampirism) people will join it a lot. This greatly amplifies the number of those who later will try PvP and will just say: "wow, this is awesome in PvE and borderline overpowered in PvP, I am going to play vamp forever and also tell to my friends".
Result: instead of 70% PvP vamps we get 95% vamps, for MOAR bats spam.
Still failing to see what this has to do with my post.
This discussion has been closed.