Any other die-hard Elder Scrolls fans feeling disenfranchised?

blisstree

I just cancelled my subscription. I've been an Elder Scrolls fan for years, having played (multiple times) through Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim. I have enjoyed playing this game, but I feel they cater too much to guildees and groupies and pay no attention to us die-hard ES fans who believe in challenging ourselves through solo play. Craglorn - both upper and lower, as well as Cyrodiil already offer more to the guildees and groupees than it does to the rest of us and yet I was informed that, although eventually they will release new higher level content for solo play, it won't be in the near future. They will continue to kiss the butts of the fickle hipsters who will quit the game when the next-big-thing pops up anyway. It is the thousands of die-hard ES fans like myself who made the franchise successful and made the mmo-version even possible and, quite frankly, I feel like we are being crapped on. So ESO, I bid you adieu. When you come to your senses and decide to actually add content for fans like myself, feel free to send me an email, but I won't hold my breath in anticipation.

Aeratus

I'm also a fan of Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim, and I generally like to play solo. However, I wouldn't fully agree with your characterization regarding endgame solo play.

Like you, it wasn't clear to me what the solo endgame was. But then I realized that the holy grail of solo endgame is pvp.

Solo pvp offers a ton of advantages compared to grouped pvp that many don't realize. For one, there's nobody on teamspeak telling you what to do, and you also won't find people on voice chat boasting about their skills or talking about crap that isn't even related to the game. As solo, you won't have to share a portion of the xp gained from kills that you would if you are grouped. Furthermore, if you are the only player in the area and you killed an entire enemy group, your AP gain is not "diluted" by others. There is also no disadvantage to being solo, since you get to use the same camps that everyone else does. Lastly, you are solo, and traveling around Cyrodiil like a boss.

Drazhar14

Well, it is supposed to be designed to be multiplayer, since it is a mmo. That is why they made this game, instead of Elder Scrolls 6. If you want single player, you can play other great single player games like the new Dragon Age or Witcher 3 until ES6 comes out.

I do feel that ESO is missing some of the immersion that the single player games have, and I do not think it will ever be as good as them as an rpg. But it is still a fun game. If you can't make friends for group content, just roll some alt characters.

Nox_Aeterna

Dont worry OP , more and more of us solo players are either following you right now or are going to soon enough.

Indeed , zen is making a good job of bleeding their TES fan subs more and more lols.

Inversus

I think most of us here agree that craglorn isn't very good - it's pretty inaccessible, you need 3 other people at the same stage to complete anything in it.
I'd have liked craglorn to have been a zone, like previous zones, mainly made up of more challenging solo quests (and interesting storyline, I don't know the craglorn storyline since I can't complete it...) some more challenging dark anchors + world bosses and a few new unique vet dungeons, along with the trials which were ok.

Ganacampo

What does being soloable or not have to do with Elder Scrolls?

Elder Scrolls isn't a game style but a fantasy setting/ world.

And to answer your question (having played Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, a bit of Daggerfall and read both Elder Scrolls novels (see? not a game style)) = no.

Sleep

This is an MMO Elder Scroll game, not a single player Elder Scrolls game.

adean27

You might find this an interesting listen:

Writing And Lore

zdkazz

you are not alone my friend, http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/127398/the-over-use-of-magic-and-its-lore-implications

Gilvoth

im a fan of morrowind, and i love solo type dungeons and all solo matterial.
i dont like oblivion, oblivion had some great parts to it but mostly i did not like it.
skyrim was better then oblivion but cannot ever compare to morrowind, skyrim had much greater parts in it "compared with oblivion and was far better then oblivion, but morrowind, Vvardenfell will allways be the best game ever made.
i prefer solo play in quests and dungeons. and also that anything that is in morrowind should allways be in elderscrolls online and allways be top priority in elder scrolls online.

Tabbycat

Considering I knew from the get go this game was not being made by BGS and Todd Howard, I can honestly say that, no, I was not disappointed.

I expected it to be an MMO set in the TES universe and that is what I got.

If Todd Howard had made this game, then yes, I would be disappointed.

Tabbycat

I meant to edit and not quote myself... apparently I can't eat food and post on forums at the same time.

Tavore1138

I'm not as far gone as the OP but I am getting close.

PvP has been keeping me going after I ran out of solo questing but it is so crashy and exploited right now the fun there is drying up and they seem to care as little about PvPers as they do about questers and crafters.

For me the problem is they sim0ply will not engage in dialogue with anyone except big MMO guilds - so they are only listening to one view rather than taking views from all types of players.

So we get Craglorn 2 and more vet dungeons instead of any improvements to PvP or additional accessible questing.

Don't get me wrong I am totally up for grouping up for quests and group dungeons - and I have tried so very hard to find groups to do quests in Craglorn but I have a limited pool of people and the chances of 4 of us being available at the same is slim.

So you try to use the grouping tool or zone chat and that ain't gonna happen.

For big established guilds this is fine, they can get a group together and off they go. For those of us coming from offline play we hit the end of Cadwell's gold and that's it... PvP or quit... or go through it all again with an alt only to hit the same brick wall at the end.

ZOS seriously need to start listening to everyone instead of just flying guild heads off for drinks and mutual back slapping they need to talk to all sorts of players and plan content accordingly or they are going to find out that they can't run a tripe A game on the subs from a handful of guilds.

MikeMoss

Hi

I'm not finding that many things I can't do solo.

I have Destinations installed and when I leave each area I find pretty much the only things that are undone are the Group Bosses.

I'm veteran level 9, and I've even done most of the group dungeons alone.

I just wait a couple of levels and then go back and do them later.

I just found one that I couldn't do because you had to have 2 people standing on pressure plates to continue, so I had to bail out on that one after getting most of the way through.

I am starting to feel like I need a break though, it's getting kind of repetitive, after a while the quest do seem all the same.

What I do find at veteran level is that there is seldom anyone else around.

I could do the group bosses in pre level 50 play because I could always find a casual player to help, now I never see anyone.

That's especially true of the Dolmens, I go there and stand around, kill a few bad guys and then run, but no one else ever shows up.

Mike

blisstree

I've finished all the quests. I've gone through all the solo dungeons and at least attempted the group ones. I've finished all the "skull and crossbones" encounters and finished all the dolmens - solo'd about a third of them, including those where the mobs were VR9 (I am VR 10). There is nothing left to do. I've scouted through Craglorn, but the single mobs are very rare. Most mobs are groups of 3 or 4 with other similar groups nearby so that when you attack one group, the majority of times a second group will join the fray and although I am capable of defending myself against maybe 2 or 3 vr 11-13 mobs, I doubt anyone could prevail against 6-8 against 1 odds. PVP doesn't interest me in the least. I think you truly have to be a psychopath to get off killing other people, even in a game, but if they insist on PVP, then players should have been given the option to join as a minion of Molag Bal and the pvp should be "good" vs. "daedra" rather than the stupidity they have.

Samadhi

blisstree wrote: »

...I have enjoyed playing this game, but I feel they cater too much to guildees and groupies and pay no attention to us die-hard ES fans who believe in challenging ourselves through solo play. Craglorn - both upper and lower, as well as Cyrodiil already offer more to the guildees and groupees than it does to the rest of us ...

Personally, spend the majority of my time as a solo player in Cyrodiil, when not solo am duoing with my girlfriend, but never more.
Speaking as a solo player, Cyrodiil provides the richest experience in the game. Cyrodiil is the portion of the game that feels most like an online version of Elder Scrolls gameplay. Adventuring around exploring and questing, then bumping into totally unscripted and unpredictable combat with an enemy player reproduces the random encounters and dynamic combat mechanisms of the Elder Scrolls series far better than any of the PvE content in the game.

Craglorn, in contrast, is a poorly implemented map that serves only to exclude a large portion of the playerbase from participating in end-game PvE content without providing them with meaningful alternatives.
The zone would be better suited as extending solo play experience while scaling instances to groups in order to provide a challenge.
Craglorn is a slap in the face to players looking for additional content after completing the Veteran zones.

blisstree

Sleep wrote: »

This is an MMO Elder Scroll game, not a single player Elder Scrolls game.

And yet, the ONLY reason it exists is because of the popularity of the single player games that make up the franchise and the ONLY reason those games are as popular as they are is because of people like me spending lots and lots of $$$ on them.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

butterfly442

blisstree wrote: »

I just cancelled my subscription. I've been an Elder Scrolls fan for years, having played (multiple times) through Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim. I have enjoyed playing this game, but I feel they cater too much to guildees and groupies and pay no attention to us die-hard ES fans who believe in challenging ourselves through solo play. Craglorn - both upper and lower, as well as Cyrodiil already offer more to the guildees and groupees than it does to the rest of us and yet I was informed that, although eventually they will release new higher level content for solo play, it won't be in the near future. They will continue to kiss the butts of the fickle hipsters who will quit the game when the next-big-thing pops up anyway. It is the thousands of die-hard ES fans like myself who made the franchise successful and made the mmo-version even possible and, quite frankly, I feel like we are being crapped on. So ESO, I bid you adieu. When you come to your senses and decide to actually add content for fans like myself, feel free to send me an email, but I won't hold my breath in anticipation.

This dude is awesome.

MikeBob

blisstree wrote: »

(...) I think you truly have to be a psychopath to get off killing other people, even in a game, (...)

Hahahahaha!

(Thanks for the laugh ... I don't get pvp either - although I have nothing disparaging to say about those who enjoy it - that was just ... funny.)

blisstree

Aeratus wrote: »

I'm also a fan of Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim, and I generally like to play solo. However, I wouldn't fully agree with your characterization regarding endgame solo play.

Like you, it wasn't clear to me what the solo endgame was. But then I realized that the holy grail of solo endgame is pvp.

Solo pvp offers a ton of advantages compared to grouped pvp that many don't realize. For one, there's nobody on teamspeak telling you what to do, and you also won't find people on voice chat boasting about their skills or talking about crap that isn't even related to the game. As solo, you won't have to share a portion of the xp gained from kills that you would if you are grouped. Furthermore, if you are the only player in the area and you killed an entire enemy group, your AP gain is not "diluted" by others. There is also no disadvantage to being solo, since you get to use the same camps that everyone else does. Lastly, you are solo, and traveling around Cyrodiil like a boss.

Re: PvP. The reason I detest pvp so much is because in every mmo I've played (about a half dozen over the past 6 or 7 years) I've noticed that most pvpers are rank and detestable cowards. I have yet to be involved in a pvp where my opponent was willing to go against me 1-on-1 without a bunch of their guild-mates joining in. I much prefer to challenge myself through solo play, finishing those dungeons/quests that most people seem to have to whine for help to do.

sagitter

Why do u play an online game if you want play solo , it's dumb,Every mmo online game, has a lot of group contents. Eso in not ne next franchaise to skyrim, you must wait tes 6!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

driosketch

Fans of the franchise who value the single player experience were always going to be the tough sell for an MMO version. Still, they made quite a bit of this game playable solo, and some encounters even that are single player only. I feel like we need to meet them half ways when it comes to the one zone and dungeons made for group play in this multiplayer game, and not be so demanding that everything be single player friendly.

khoukharev

Hey, guys, I'm solo myself, but started this particular game just recently (wanted to finish another Skyrim game first).
I have an idea - How about Solo guild? Well, it sounds like nonsense, but bear with me. The only thing this guild would take on - is help in these particular situations - when you need another 2-3 ppl to finish a quest. And well, maybe some information exchange and solo players representation to the devs.
It's the same with government in RL No whining. Instead - organize yourselves to make stuff done.

sagitter

driosketch wrote: »

Fans of the franchise who value the single player experience were always going to be the tough sell for an MMO version. Still, they made quite a bit of this game playable solo, and some encounters even that are single player only. I feel like we need to meet them half ways when it comes to the one zone and dungeons made for group play in this multiplayer game, and not be so demanding that everything be single player friendly.

The best quest of the game (Main quest) is solo entirely.

blisstree

sagitter wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

Fans of the franchise who value the single player experience were always going to be the tough sell for an MMO version. Still, they made quite a bit of this game playable solo, and some encounters even that are single player only. I feel like we need to meet them half ways when it comes to the one zone and dungeons made for group play in this multiplayer game, and not be so demanding that everything be single player friendly.

I'm not demanding that everything be single player friendly. What I am requesting is that they give equal treatment to solo players and group players, rather than making all new content for group play only.

blisstree

Ganacampo wrote: »

What does being soloable or not have to do with Elder Scrolls?

Elder Scrolls isn't a game style but a fantasy setting/ world.

And to answer your question (having played Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, a bit of Daggerfall and read both Elder Scrolls novels (see? not a game style)) = no.

Nowhere in my post did I say that ES was a "game style". My point being that there are as many solo players as there are groupees and we deserve equal treatment. If they release an expansion catering to groupees, in all fairness (given that WE are spending money too) the next expansion should be targeted at solo players. But this is not the case. The ONLY people they are sucking up to are the groupees, but it is, in all likelihood, the solo players who came to this game because it was ELDER SCROLLS, not because it was the next big mmo everyone was talking about. And since it was money spent by those fans that made Elder Scrolls a profitable franchise to begin with, we deserve and should be given as much consideration as the hipsters that simply jump on whatever mmo is the flavor of the month.

Ourorboros

driosketch wrote: »

Fans of the franchise who value the single player experience were always going to be the tough sell for an MMO version. Still, they made quite a bit of this game playable solo, and some encounters even that are single player only. I feel like we need to meet them half ways when it comes to the one zone and dungeons made for group play in this multiplayer game, and not be so demanding that everything be single player friendly.

Nailed it! I've played the hell out of previous TES games, and had serious doubts about getting this game, as I had never done an MMO before. I took advantage of the beta to 'try before I buy', and that was enough to convince me.It hardly seems fair to complain about group content in a game that was clearly marketed as an MMO, and that allowed millions to access the beta as a way to 'test the waters'. I have no sympathy for people who complain about lack of solo play in an MMO. No one is forced to play. There apparently will be a solo TES in the future. I'm having a blast learning how to play the group content, and the guilds are a great way to find groups.

KhajitFurTrader

blisstree wrote: »

It is the thousands of die-hard ES fans like myself who made the franchise successful and made the mmo-version even possible and, quite frankly, I feel like we are being crapped on.

I consider myself to be a die-hard Elder Scrolls fan, too, and I disagree with everything you've stated above, and I don't particularly care for your opinion of how you feel like being treated by ZOS.

I feel right at home in ESO, they've created with it something truly captivating and they succeeded in capturing the ES spirit and bringing it to the MMO genre.

So adieu! May you find happiness elsewhere.

Ourorboros

blisstree wrote: »

The best quest of the game (Main quest) is solo entirely.

And it's over before you hit level 50, let alone Veteran Ranks. Then it's simply going through Cadwell's Silver and Gold quests (which are only the side quests of the other 2 factions that you didn't originally play). So once you've done that, what is left? What is the point of running an alt since you've already done all the quests? They should be creating new low level expansions to give players a reason for creating/playing alts and they should be creating solo (as well as group and guild) content. But instead, they choose to totally ignore and alienate a large segment of their player base. In my humble opinion, those who need to group/guild are weak and incapable of dealing with things on their own.

Don't know about you, but I played through Skyrim with a bunch of different characters. Each of them had to play the same quests. Yes, there is a bunch of mods to play, but I'd be surprised if someone told me they never repeated any Skyrim content. I don't see how leveling alts in ESO is any different from that experience. Vets are not forced to do Caldwell Silver or Gold, there are other ways to level. In truth, the only reason to level past VR1 is access to gear with better stats, since there are currently no attribute increases after 50. You play alts in ESO for the same reason you started a new character in Skyrim....to try a new class, race, skills and so on.

blisstree

khoukharev wrote: »

"...No whining. Instead - organize yourselves to make stuff done.

Bringing up a valid point is, in no way, "whining". Whining is when people complain that something is too tough for them to beat, or that a particular class is too strong and therefore unbalanced. Saying that I spend as much money on this game as any other subscriber and that seeing other people who play a particular style being catered to, but people who enjoy the style of gaming I do get the short end of the stick is not whining. It is making a sound and concrete argument for why they should give us equal treatment.

It's not that I find it hard to get a group, or that I need help fulfilling the parameters of a particular quest. I simply do not enjoy group play. I have never had a good experience in guilds, so do not wish to indulge in guilds. I enjoy the challenge of a good adventure that pits my mind (strategy) as well as my body (actual fighting skills). Nor am I saying that those who do enjoy the camaraderie a good group affords should not be allowed to indulge in group/guild play. (My doorway into rpgs and mmorpgs was, after all, table top gaming - D&D, Runequest, etc.)

The bottom line is, I pay for the game. If it no longer serves to entertain me, then I will not continue to pay to play. Which is the point of my original post - that I am no longer pleased with this game and, rather than simply quit, I am publicly informing Zenimax exactly why I am displeased, why I am no longer willing to pay for a subscription, and give them a chance to reply. In doing so, I hope that others who feel as I do will share their opinion and, perhaps, things will become a little more fair for all participants/consumers.

Tavore1138

driosketch wrote: »

Fans of the franchise who value the single player experience were always going to be the tough sell for an MMO version. Still, they made quite a bit of this game playable solo, and some encounters even that are single player only. I feel like we need to meet them half ways when it comes to the one zone and dungeons made for group play in this multiplayer game, and not be so demanding that everything be single player friendly.

MMO doesn't have to mean all groups, all the time.

This is my first MMO - but I value the shared experience. Even in the solo areas it is fun to do dolmens or world bosses with random people, grouping up for group and public dungeons in those early zones was also both accessible and fun.

In Cyrodiil I run both solo and in packs as the situation warrants - both are fun and rewarding when the game is behaving itself.

The problem with Craglorn is that it is 2 updates of group only content in a game where grouping is not terribly well designed (yet?). The other update bought us vet dungeons which are also really aimed at groups only.

Where franchise fans suffer is that we don't have the pre-existing groups of people to group with that long time MMOers do.

We're working on it, or some of us are, but building networks of people to enable grouping at all times is a slow process - ZOS need to be aware of that when designing content if they want to keep the franchise fans on board.

Maybe some way of scaling group delves to the number of people going in the front door? (If 2 or 3 was the magic number I could be group questing a lot more, for example.)

Maybe releases could go in a more even cycle - group area, solo area, PvP enhancements, general game enhancements and round again so everyone is happier.