Misleading mechanics for builds

PlagueMonk

Zenimax, would you please explain to us why the HELL all class abilities are based off of magicka and spell damage?

As a NB I am pointed to using medium armor because of the synergy it has with the class and wielding a weapon of some sort (because most medium armor has weapon damage on it) but even if I OC my weapon, it has no impact on the amount of damage my classes abilities do?! (other than borrowing that weapons crit % which is also a bit of a wtf?)

While this set-up works great for a Sorc who naturally wears light, uses a stick and focuses on magicka, it completely sucks for the other 3 classes who should be wielding actual weapons and wearing heavy/med armor! It's no wonder that 75% of the population runs around in a skirt when found light armor primarily has spell damage and magicka on it (and spell damage on crafted sets is low in comparison to weapon)

I also find it completely stupid that I can run around basically unarmed and still use all of my class abilities at full strength.

Now I'm not saying there is no justification for having a class ability based off of spell damage because something like the DK Lava Whip or the NB Veil of Blades do act like spells but what about the fact that most if not all weapons are magically enhanced, either with some innate ability, trait and/or glyph? Shouldn't that be taken into account for class abilities?

I am ok with class abilities using magicka to activate but those class abilities NEED to be tied to a weapon of some sort (at least for non-Sorc) and that weapon should COUNT in the damage done. I should be able to put an axe or dagger in my hand and ENHANCE my class ability to deal damage and not have to stack magicka/spell damage and wear a damn skirt. That weapon(s) in my hand(s) should be useful to my class abilities in some meaningful way.

Edit: Would also be extremely helpful for each class ability to actually LIST where the damage comes from and crit comes from.

jelliedsoup

Yep, this has been an issue since day 1. Look at the guild summit on Tamriel Foundry. Has a write up on these issues and more.

butterfly442

It is how it is.

Cannot fight the power.

Samadhi

As a Nightblade, Dual Wielding two swords gives me increase to damage on Class skills because of the Twin Blade and Blunt passive.

When using a Stamina/Weapon Damage build, personally focus on using Class skills solely for utility rather than damage.

When using a Magicka/Spell Damage build, personally focus on using Class skills for damage and Stamina for utility.

Even have the option of overcharging both my Weapon Damage and Spell Damage stats and going glass cannon with two sources of damage (but generally prefer not to).

The system works fine for me.

david.haypreub18_ESO

This system has been messed up since beta. I was saying the same thing in March. It is just inherently problematic. They need to make some class skills use stamina.

Soloeus

That is just how it is.

Besides, class abilities cost Magicka so their power SHOULD be based on magicka.

PlagueMonk

Samadhi wrote: »

As a Nightblade, Dual Wielding two swords gives me increase to damage on Class skills because of the Twin Blade and Blunt passive.

When using a Stamina/Weapon Damage build, personally focus on using Class skills solely for utility rather than damage.

When using a Magicka/Spell Damage build, personally focus on using Class skills for damage and Stamina for utility.

Even have the option of overcharging both my Weapon Damage and Spell Damage stats and going glass cannon with two sources of damage (but generally prefer not to).

The system works fine for me.

You know, I've been looking at all the sets and cannot, under any conditions even come close to OCing both. In fact I am hard pressed to OC just spell even with putting spell damage glyphs on all 3 jewelry and running crafted that have spell damage on them. Doing that however means you cannot used crafted sets like Hundlings/Ashen to get the necessary weapon damage.

So you will forgive me if I find your claim very hard to believe.

And you do realize the bonus to Twin Blades Blunt Passive is miniscule, right? It's like 2-3% at best.

Samadhi

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

As a Nightblade, Dual Wielding two swords gives me increase to damage on Class skills because of the Twin Blade and Blunt passive.

When using a Stamina/Weapon Damage build, personally focus on using Class skills solely for utility rather than damage.

When using a Magicka/Spell Damage build, personally focus on using Class skills for damage and Stamina for utility.

Even have the option of overcharging both my Weapon Damage and Spell Damage stats and going glass cannon with two sources of damage (but generally prefer not to).

The system works fine for me.

You know, I've been looking at all the sets and cannot, under any conditions even come close to OCing both. In fact I am hard pressed to OC just spell even with putting spell damage glyphs on all 3 jewelry and running crafted that have spell damage on them. Doing that however means you cannot used crafted sets like Hundlings/Ashen to get the necessary weapon damage.

So you will forgive me if I find your claim very hard to believe.

And you do realize the bonus to Twin Blades Blunt Passive is miniscule, right? It's like 2-3% at best.

3 Pieces of Shadow walker set (Necklace and two Rings) gives 16 Weapon Damage as two piece bonus; enchant all three pieces with Yellow Spell Damage to push up to Spell Damage cap.
With two purple swords, the Shadow Walker set pushes me over the Weapon Damage softcap. Hell, having just two purple swords equipped with no set bonus at all puts me at Weapon Damage softcap as is.

Torug's Pact set for both Spell Damage and Weapon Damage; with Dual Wield this still leaves me 4 slots for another set such as Ashen grip, or 5 slots if Torug's Pact 5 piece bonus is not optimal for the build/if Hunding's Rage is more appealing for my goals.
Have a variety of different builds on my character; maxed out all Armour and Weapon lines for flexibility. Only play one character (my Nightblade).

Personally prefer to either spec all in on Weapon Damage and Stamina, or all in on Spell Damage and Magicka stats for larger overall increases, but it is fully viable to overcharge both and minimize the level of diminishing returns instead.
Mostly the limit on available skills per bar makes me choose one or the other. Also, the limited sources of Magicka and Stamina make doing a balanced build less appealing; however, have briefly run a Stamina Bow build with Spell Damage enchants in order to get better healing off of Strife. Ended up swapping the Spell Damage over to Weapon Damage enchants for more Sneak Attack and sustained combat damage though.

Twin Blade and Blunt passive is 2.5% per sword making for an overall increase of 5%.
It is not as powerful in effect as the 10% Restoration Staff passive used to be, but it means not having to run a staff while still receiving benefit.

Rune_Relic

When an oil tanker is moving it takes one hell of an effort to change its course.
A million pushes eventually work

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Zenimax, would you please explain to us why the HELL all class abilities are based off of magicka and spell damage?

Because that's how it is.

An NB doesn't need to wear cloth to perform well, and believe me when you see an Imperial Sorcerer in medium/heavy armour with a Greatsword simply RUN, if you can.

You are the one who has issues with your character because you have a set mind and do not adapt to the requirements of the game. There were thousands NBs like you when the game came out complaining for exactly the same things.
Medium armour + DW and QQ that my class skills are magicka & spell power based.

Adapt. Many did, and are doing very well.

Oldtimer209

To the OP, yes this is the way it has been since Beta. Many players have commented on this in an effort to get some balance, but all we seem to get is "L2P" comments.
So much for playing the YOU want to play.

Aeratus

The melee-like skills in the NB assassination trees do not use physically carried weapons. They are basically magical daggers you summon from thin air, and you can see this by how the daggers are transparent red.

So there's the rationalization for using magicka/spell damage for your class skills.

Varicite

Rune_Relic wrote: »

When an oil tanker is moving it takes one hell of an effort to change its course.
A million pushes eventually work

This is, of course, discounting the chance that any one of those pushes may rip a hole in the hull. : )

jelliedsoup

@p_tsakirisb16_ESO‌
Adapting is not appropriate when there is an issue with the game design. You can simplify and allow the game to be poorly designed by saying adapt. It has meant hat people will leave much quicker. Buy by all means keep pushing that "adapt" stance, its useful for those who want the status quo.

Dont Shoot

being a good melee stamina based fighter is all about moving my friend. it's just as important as damage and all the Bitchy crap u said

GnatB

*shrug*

If you don't plan on going mage, ignore damage class skills? Only use buff/debuff/cc ones that don't really scale of magica?

If you want to use your weapon for damage, then use your weapon for damage. a.k.a. weapon skills. Don't be too caught up on "class skills". Just because they are "class skills" doesn't mean you have to use 'em. Think of 'em more as the magic school your character happened to be trained in. If you don't want to be a caster, then your use of said spells should presumably be fairly limited. Class skills, even ones that summon magic knives/spears/etc. Are still summoning the things. They're all magic.

Incidentally, something slightly amusing. Of the two ESO classes that are "historic" ES classes, (sorcerer and nightblade) *both* have historically been "Mage" classes.... and perhaps more amusingly, neither were "cloth" classes. Sorcs were heavy, Nightblades were "light" (which is to say leather/chain/etc. a.k.a. ESO medium.)

dodgehopper_ESO

I think the Templar is meant to be what was once the Crusader class in Morrowind / Oblivion. I've also had the thought that it could be the amalgam or general gestalt of the ideas behind Witch Hunter, Healer, Crusader, Monk and Pilgrim classes. All of these classes fit the theme behind Templar, with Templar being the overarching theme that is representative of any of these paths. While we didn't get any of these classes individually, they gave us something new.

Additionally when it comes to the Dragon Knight, I do believe the idea behind this Akaviri class might have existed. The only thing I found odd about the Dragon Knight is that I would have expected something a bit more fluid like the Tsaesci are described. I believe the Blades likely would have kept some of the original abilities of the Dragon Knight as well, even if much may have been lost over the centuries.

Rune_Relic

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I think the Templar is meant to be what was once the Crusader class in Morrowind / Oblivion. I've also had the thought that it could be the amalgam or general gestalt of the ideas behind Witch Hunter, Healer, Crusader, Monk and Pilgrim classes. All of these classes fit the theme behind Templar, with Templar being the overarching theme that is representative of any of these paths. While we didn't get any of these classes individually, they gave us something new.

Additionally when it comes to the Dragon Knight, I do believe the idea behind this Akaviri class might have existed. The only thing I found odd about the Dragon Knight is that I would have expected something a bit more fluid like the Tsaesci are described. I believe the Blades likely would have kept some of the original abilities of the Dragon Knight as well, even if much may have been lost over the centuries.

I always thought the draugr in death as what were once DK in life.
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Amongst_the_Draugr
Enlightening with the dragon blood ?

jrgray93

A lot of the combat and skill systems in this game were very poorly designed. It has been an issue since day one, and short of a complete overhaul, it isn't going to change. It sucks, but it is what it is.

Ragefist

Because that's how it is.

An NB doesn't need to wear cloth to perform well, and believe me when you see an Imperial Sorcerer in medium/heavy armour with a Greatsword simply RUN, if you can.

You are the one who has issues with your character because you have a set mind and do not adapt to the requirements of the game. There were thousands NBs like you when the game came out complaining for exactly the same things.
Medium armour + DW and QQ that my class skills are magicka & spell power based.

Adapt. Many did, and are doing very well.

This.

If you build around stamina, use stamina.

Weapon skills will be your bread and butter and source of damage. Use class abilities to complement them. There are many. I for example use Focused attacks for amazing stamina regen, Reapers Mark for extra damage, Leechings Strikes ... there are ways, you just need to be bit more creative

TehMagnus

IMO the problem isn't what scales on what, the problem is that you can't see it on the tooltips and thus a lot of people are using "bad" builds because of their ignorance which is forced by the game.

But rejoice, this is immersion all the solo players thrive in . Only the ones who have experimented or looked in the net will know, the rest will enjoy immersion and getting continuously [snip]ed in it.