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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/508927/

Opposing faction character already assigned to this campaign

  • SoulScream
    SoulScream
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    SoulScream wrote: »
    Monsoon wrote: »
    I don t care about trolls and spies those are the minority and the exception. You should not limit what people can do. It pisses me off that on evening I can not play AD thornblade on my level 34 because my other toon is already on EP Thornblade

    THIS is the kind of restrictions that drive people away. Let me play where I want when I want instead of managing for the exception and annoying 100% of the player base.

    WHY have restrictions in the first place? Is having spies SUCH as massive issue? Seriously. Deal with spies in clever ways instead of these stupid gimmicks

    You got this the wrong way round. These are the kind of restrictions that keep players in the game, not drive them away.

    If anyone could log their lvl10 alt into the same campaign but for opposing faction and troll people with out of place FCs and sieges then PvP would be pretty much ruined. One troll is enough to ruin a defence.

    I dunno what guild your part of what friends you have, but every PvP guild I'm part of are thankful for these restrictions, not angry about them.

    Anyone can!

    The restrictions aren't working to stop people that want to do that and they are preventing a normal player from enjoying their alts. Furthermore the restrictions are causing buff/empty campaigns because there has to be enough campaigns or different faction alts can't be played at all.

    This is designed really bad and should have been changed already.

    Anyone can what?

    Not anyone can get their alts to any campaign or the person I was responding to would not be complaining. People can put troll camps by having a separate account and paying extra money. That's impossible to control, but at least the extra cost is a huge deterrent. If anyone could troll without having to pay any extra money, it would become so common-place PvP would suffer greatly.

    And please don't make absurd assumptions. The reason why there are buff campaigns is in the name, buffs. If they didn't have buffs there wouldn't be buff campaigns. Many of the campaigns had healthy populations before large guilds (or guild alliances) started capping them so they could have buffs in PvE and the campaign they actually PvPed in.

    The campaigns died because of the buffs and because of ZOS' ineptitude at dealing with the basic problems (like lag, fps drops and crashes) in a timely manner, which lead do a decrease in the PvP population. The travel restrictions most certainly had very little if anything to do with the demise of these campaigns. That's clutching at straws

    You said "If anyone could log their lvl10 alt into the same campaign" and plus the above shows you don't know what you're talking about. You can take your two characters of opposing factions to the same campaign with a single right click and a single left click. It's very easy and anyone can do it. You do not need separate accounts.
  • æxæ
    æxæ
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    [/quote] My argument is:
    If you remove the concept of campaign buffs, these campaigns will stop being abused and will start to have a healthy, albeit smaller, population as they did before.
    This would involve two major changes:
    * Any buffs no longer apply outside of campaign and only apply to players who are not guests on the campaign
    * Either remove former emperor buffs completely or have them apply only inside the campaign that emperorship was achieved (which can only be your main campaign)
    If you change the above, these campaigns will be healthy again. The only reason why you would guest is to have some different kind of fun or because you are queuing for your server. You will not be able to achieve anything on your guest campaign that can help you in your main campaign or vice versa, so you will have absolutely 0 motivation to go there and dominate the campaign. You gain nothing from it. You will drive everyone else out and become the king of a dead campaign unable to carry any buffs anywhere else, so why do it?
    Removing the guesting will not fix the issue you describe in my opinion. If you remove these campaigns altogether, then everyone will have to face the queues and lag and crashes at Thornblade and not be able to escape somewhere else for a few hours of PvP fun. It's the wrong approach in my opinion.[/quote]





    I can relate to the speculation that healthy campaigns died due to one faction steamrolling it and making it a buff campaign. Check.
    Removing emperor buffs....No more carrots for the hardcore players? Not a good idea imo (as much as I despise the dozens or maybe hundreds of 2nd hand emperors I wouldn't have the time to aim at emperor).

    But you see, overall we can only speculate. Basically that's what we are all doing here, no matter how much pvp we have played. You cannot predict
    player's motivation to play a certain campaign without hard individual data.
    My speculations might be totally wrong also.

    I'd suggest for Zenimax to run several polls by mail with any player that has played pvp how they want the pvp design to continue. Those should be private
    because player polls in forum threads have no real meaning, they just show a mere tendeny. Been a global project manager for market research for 5 years and can at least judge this much. Let's take the forward camps as an example.
    Currently it's split for "have to go", "should stay in the game". Now, as a developer I wouldn't know what to do at all here. You'd *** off half the pvp community either way, no matter which side you'd take. I believe a mail poll actually done by the developer and not players would have a different outcome.
    But then again even if the vote was 70% of all pvp players voting for FC should
    stay, as a developer you'd be thinking...is it worth pissing off 30 percent of the players that voted for camps to go. Tricky.

    Tbh, I don't want to be in Zenimax shoes as far as pvp is concerned. All the criticism they have been facing, some righteous, some totally ridculous criticism. Yes, they should be fixing anything bugged, broken ofc. But even if they do now there is still the flawed design of pvp in general. As it turned out,
    some parts that were fun in the beginning are not as fun any longer for at least
    half the pvp community. Overhaul completely? I really don't know.

    Pretty much done speculating and though I love discussing about the part of the game I love the most, I will just wait it out and hope for the best.
    Can't say "see you on the battlefield" because I suppose you're on NA, well have fun mate!

    P.S: messed up the quote completly, tried to put some space between quoted and my reply.
    Edited by æxæ on October 1, 2014 7:02PM
  • Lionxoft
    Lionxoft
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    Should probably just play as one alliance.

    See... What happens is when you are a good PvP player you gain the respect of your enemy. It can forge relationships in-game and some folks want to go hang out with their friends.

    This wasn't necessarily a problem back when there were many campaigns to choose from however the PvP restrictions haven't adapted to fit the changes that have been made. You can only fault the PvP team for being so nearsighted.

    In order to play with my friends over 2 alliances I have to spend 15k AP on each character (Multiply that by all my characters) and wait a lockout period. Not only is this a waste of AP but it's also not allowing me to group up with my friends to play a game.
    Edited by Lionxoft on October 1, 2014 7:42PM
  • AlnilamE
    AlnilamE
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    Rune_Relic wrote: »
    AlnilamE wrote: »
    Rune_Relic wrote: »
    I will have to disagree with you in turn.
    1. Yes it would be nice for dualists to have a home...(but one does not exist and was never envisioned to exist).
    2. Yes it would be nice for PVE to have safe haven in Cyrodiil...(but it is not a safe haven...its RVR central. Areas outside of cyrodiil is your safe haven).
    3. Cyrodiil was specific designed for large scale PVP. So to say he must sacrifice that to accommodate you and have large scale PVP compromised as a consequence isn't really an option is it.

    Yes I agree pvp dualists need somewhere to go and need a home..but cyrodiil is not that place. Not unless ESO says...."New campaign ---abc is dualing server only." But they wont do that and have specifically said they don't want to do anything to detract from the war with arena style PVP combat.

    Removing guest servers and buff servers means people have to fight or do nothing. Choice is yours. You enter cyrodiil to fight a war at the end of the day.

    I have to disagree with you. Cyrodiil may have been designed for large scale PvP, but there is a huge amount of PvE in there too. I spent the greater part of the weekend with my two main characters in Cyrodiil doing mostly PvE and throwing myself into PvP if I was close to the action. I chose to do this in a campaign that was less populated rather than go to Thornblade because I figured that I shouldn't take up the spot of someone who does want to PvP in the busiest campaign.

    So we went to Chillrend instead, which is dominated by DC (I'm in EP) and we did a quest that literally took us around the entire map and threw in some fishing too, while avoiding enemy players when we didn't want to fight them. We even got the ocean fish, and the ocean spots are right by the AD gates. It was a lot of fun! But if I had gone to Thornblade, I would have taken up a spot.

    Now, I agree that campaign buffs should not affect players outside of their home campaign. You get those benefits only in the campaign you are fighting for.

    I would love for all the campaigns to be reasonably populated, but not everybody goes to Cyrodiil just to PvP.

    No they don't all go to cyrodiil to PVP.
    None the less..that is the purpose of it.
    Show me any ZOS literature that says cyrodiil is not intended to be the PVP faction vs faction centrepiece.
    If you find some I'll retract my comment and apologise.

    Hence any one elses claims on the pros and cons of cyrodiil comes secondary to whats best for the PVP war.

    OK. So if you read my post correctly and read your response correctly, you want me to go to the most popular PvP campaign to go fishing because that's my home campaign, never mind that the campaign is locked and I'll be taking the place of someone who wants to actually PvP at that time. Is that right?

    Or should I be able to go to a different campaign on the days where I don't feel like PvP so that the folks who want to can have a piece of the action?

    I'm trying to be considerat of other players here, and you are implying that I shouldn't?
    The Moot Councillor
    Zenilda Hlaalu - 160 Nightblade (EP)
    Potion Ivy -160 Sorcerer (EP)
    Alnibis - 160 Templar (EP)
    Jaskaar the Cat - 160 Sorcerer (AD)
    Nyau Cafra - 26 Dragonknight (AD)
    Lash gra-Mogak - 160 Dragonknight (EP)
    Holds-Green-Fish - 160 Nightblade (DC)
    Sings-of-Ice-Storms - 160 Warden (EP)
    Mug gro-Gogron - 160 Warden (EP)
    Neesha af-Marimah - level 46 Templar (EP)
  • Monsoon
    Monsoon
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    You got this the wrong way round. These are the kind of restrictions that keep players in the game, not drive them away.

    If anyone could log their lvl10 alt into the same campaign but for opposing faction and troll people with out of place FCs and sieges then PvP would be pretty much ruined. One troll is enough to ruin a defence.

    I dunno what guild your part of what friends you have, but every PvP guild I'm part of are thankful for these restrictions, not angry about them.

    Then don t allow level 10 but allow maxed players. The point is that once again this is managing for the exception. If someone wants to troll they WILL. Just get a second account so in essence the restriction does not stop anyone from trolling, it just makes it more annoying and complicated for customers.

    This is why the RVR with multiple levels is wrong. You need one server fighting another server just like GW2 does it. This faction war is fun when we talk about smurfs or bananas but in the end you are stuck on the server you know in fighting ALWAYS on the same side...always.

    Last week I leveled a templar in EP as my 3rd EP toon.I wanted to cut myself so bad how painful and bad the map was in redoing the same exact quests ONLY to be able to play in EP in Cyrodiil

    THE WAY IT SHOULD BE
    is that you should be able to level in ANY map from ANY factions at ANY time and then select ONE faction for war and thats it. Level in AD and play on EP in Cyrodiil then next month play in DC for leveling and play EP in Cyrodiil

    THIS is how it should work so that PVE and PVP do not lock you on all your factions and you are not spread in separate campaigns you don t give a toss about

    Why is the game so much more complicated is ridiculous. I like GW2's RVR, I like WOW game stability where it does not crash at the worst time and screw you of rewards and I like ESO for the look and ambiance.

    Too bad PVP is being outsourced to a Tshirt shop in Bombay
  • izazael
    izazael
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    You are wrong about the difficulty in getting into a non home/guest campaign. You do not need to make a separate account or pay more money to hop in a campaign that is not your home or guest. You don't even need to have friends in the opposing faction; across-faction guild (such as one devoted to trading) will do.

    And just to emphasize, this is NOT a bad thing. It is an MMO, Zenimax has stated numerous times that they wanted to make it possible to play with your friends. See here, for example: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/125176/alliance-war-future-plans-and-update/p1

    I've got an EP character that I play solo and a DC character that I play with my wife. Yesterday I switched my EP character to the non-vet campaign, thinking it might be more fun than the buff campaigns everyone has going. Then today, I suggested my wife and I join the Alliance War with our DC characters (mind you, she only has the one char) and told her to join the non-vet campaign...

    Then I went to join her.

    Not only can I not join the campaign because my other char is EP and already on it, but I can't swap yet because I only joined it yesterday with my EP char. And even then, I don't think I have the AP to switch instantly.

    Granted, I could wait until the end of the campaign and put my EP character into a different campaign. Also granted, I'm impatient and refuse to accept the reality where people put chars of differents pacts into a single campaign to spy and cheat... I don't want to. I want to PvP with my wife. Now, dammit. I have no interest in spying or guild politics.

    Before I get flamed by the folks that play PvP as if their life depends upon it, I understand the restrictions that have been placed on the campaigns and why they're there. But we're a couple of those annoying people who joined an MMO because they loved Elder Scrolls and not because we're experienced MMO players. We want to play together, quest together, fight side by side... and it seems like every attempt to do so is plagued by problems, glitches, restrictions, and excuses.

    Can't we have a non-buff campaign that lets us just join up, fight, die, fight some more regardless of alt characters and guild alliances?
  • driosketch
    driosketch
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    @izazael‌ Have your wife go into the campaign. Then use travel to player to join her. This hole has apparently not been patched out yet, so you may as well make use of it.
    Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
    ●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●
  • izazael
    izazael
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    @driosketch‌ That is an awesome bug. But will I earn AP? It would be nice to at least be able to buy siege weapons...
  • driosketch
    driosketch
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    izazael wrote: »
    @driosketch‌ That is an awesome bug. But will I earn AP? It would be nice to at least be able to buy siege weapons...
    @izazael‌ Only way to see is to try, but I would assume so.
    Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
    ●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●
  • eldermpsmithrwb17_ESO
    +1 to this post, getting long in the tooth but still no solution
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