Sorc Damage Skills are Terrible in PvE and the Resto Staff nerf just made them worse...

Ezareth

While I'm a veteran of PvP, due to the many issues in Cyrodiil, I've been trying my hand at PvE. Through research and practice I find that the most powerful and only viable Sorc damage build is spamming the Destruction ability Crushing Shock, weaving light attacks and keeping Crit Surge active which increases your weapon damage and thus your Crushing Shock damage.

Not only is this rotation very boring, it is the only rotation that can keep our damage remotely competitive to other classes. As it stands the major guilds in the game find themselves more successful by bring other classes over sorcs. As a damage centric class I find this to be rather absurd.

I was testing a build involving alternating Power Overload Light attacks, Velocious curse, crystal fragments (when procced) and mages wrath with light attack weaving and was able to sustain a fair 750 single target DPS, still 250 DPS short of a good Crushing Shock sorc. This was with a pure legendary V14 PvE set with maximized magicka (2800) and spell power (143) and max legendary enchants.

The problem is, I was using a Resto staff to increase my damage by 10%. Now with the nerf next patch I am pretty much pigeonholed into using a Destruction Staff (which I'm fine with) and spamming weapon abilities(which I don't care for) that any class in the game can use. Losing 10% to my damage just makes anything I try with Sorc abilities utterly useless compared to Destro abilities.

The most absurd thing about all of this is the fact that Spell Damage doesn't contribute to crushing shock damage so it becomes a secondary stat for a class that primarily relies on spells!

Is this the design intent of the developers or is there anything in store to gives sorcs looking to be useful in PvE a way to compete with other classes? I'm at a loss here.

Aeratus

Sorcs should be happy that they still have a good destro staff build for PVE (in fact, the best destro staff setup of any class).

The nerf to resto staff barely affects sorcs at all. For sorcs that rely on resto swap for the execute phase and to call the storm atronach, the nerf to resto probably only results in a 3% dps loss in total.

On the other hand, NB caster does not have any good destro staff build for PVE single target dps, since we have no synergy between class skills and weapon skills for sustained single target dps. So this is flat 10% dps nerf to NB casters.

Sorcs got through this "magicka nerf" relatively unscathed as far as PVE is concerned, so there's nothing to complain about in terms of PVE.

Ezareth

Aeratus wrote: »

Sorcs should be happy that they still have a good destro staff build for PVE (in fact, the best destro staff setup of any class).

The nerf to resto staff barely affects sorcs at all. For sorcs that rely on resto swap for the execute phase and to call the storm atronach, the nerf to resto probably only results in a 3% dps loss in total.

On the other hand, NB caster does not have any good destro staff build for PVE single target dps, since we have no synergy between class skills and weapon skills for sustained single target dps. So this is flat 10% dps nerf to NB casters.

Sorcs got through this "magicka nerf" relatively unscathed as far as PVE is concerned, so there's nothing to complain about in terms of PVE.

Can there be a sorc thread somewhere without some Nightblade jumping into it and making it about Nightblades? Nightblades shouldn't be casters in PvE. The Nightblades in my guild aren't casters and are sustaining 1500 DPS in PvE. I feel like an ass for even wanting to do PvE because I'm bringing my team down.

I'd be happy to have *any* viable DPS option. 3% loss in overall DPS to a class that was already the worst DPS in PvE matters.

MarisGolding

I find sorc dps for pve to be just fine. My 4 man group has competed all of the death challenges, time trials, etc on vet mode. I keep pace with the two Nbs that run dps with me. We don't even run a tank because it's a waste of dps. My spell damage is 145 and my crystal shard pummels stuff for over a 1k consistently. I suggest re-evaluating your approach. Sorc dps is just fine.

cazlonb16_ESO

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

3% loss in overall DPS to a class that was already the worst DPS in PvE matters.

Why are you talking about Templars all of the sudden ?

Nestor

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Through research and practice I find that the most powerful and only viable Sorc damage build is spamming the Destruction ability Crushing Shock, weaving light attacks and keeping Crit Surge active

My Sorcerers Resto Staff skill is at 1. As in I have never used a Resto staff with her yet.

I never use Crushing Shock, not because I think it sucks or anything, but because I use other skills. I use Surge, Impulse, Elemental Wall, Mages Fury, and Boundless Storm. I will also use Crystal Blast/Shards on my Bow load out for post bow shot stuns. I also swap out Crystal Shards and Elemental Wall for Silver Shards and Expert Hunter when I am facing Daedra.

Also, even though they nerfed the best reason to be a Sorcerer, the Storm Atronach ultimate is still a boss killer, just takes kiting now.

You don't need the highest DPS in PvE, you just need to be alive at the end of the battle, which you can make last as long as you want. If your bored with the rotation, then change it for another one.

mar1ano1987nrb18_ESO

I hope you are trolling OP

jambam817_ESO

Sorc skills in PVE do awesome damage. Shards is so overpowered lmao. I love it, my VR8 Orc Sorc is my main and uses
7/7 Light Armor, only Destro Staves
Bar 1 single target: Crushing Shock/Shards/Mage's Fury/Crit Surge/Inner Light
Bar2 AOE: Lightning Splash/Impulse/Encase/Dark Deal/Inner Light

I can be a bit squishy at times but the damage is awesome and Crit Surge + Impulse is an insane heal amount as long as you've got the magika to sustain a few bursts. Lots of heals from Crit Surge on single targets as well.

I see no issues. I solo Dolmens

Erock25

Unfortunately for Sorc, all of our class skills besides Surge are completely useless for competitive PVE. Pull out that Destro staff and get to spamming Crushing Shock ad nauseam.

Funny to read the people coming in here sticking up for Sorc DPS while they really have no idea how to reach the maximum. Using crystal frag when proc'd disrupts light attack canceled crushing shock rotation to a point that it is useless to ever cast crystal frag.

Also funny that people are bringing up their solo DPS and saying PVE DPS doesn't matter when the OP is clearly talking about competitive (and timed, with rewards for better times!) group PVE dps.

Ezareth

I'm not talking about Dragonstar arena or subpar builds. I'm talking about absolute min/maxing which is what anyone who wants to be truly competitive does.

I don't find my survivability in PvE to be an issue but when you can't compete with other guildmates with other classes that have higher overall DPS then there is an issue and this isn't a skill issue on my part.

Most PvE content is a DPS race, it always is and always will be once the survivability needs are met (the dead can't DPS). This isn't about survivability or anything else it is about weak Sorc damage abilities that are only good in PvP situations.

Erock25 wrote: »

Unfortunately for Sorc, all of our class skills besides Surge are completely useless for competitive PVE. Pull out that Destro staff and get to spamming Crushing Shock ad nauseam.

Finally someone who knows what I'm talking about.

Sindala

I don't know what game your playing but as a 2hand, heavy armour, sorcerer I have a really hard time to die....easily taking on 4 opponents levels above me.
Heck, i'm doing the end of the main questline at Level 43.

Your not playing your char correctly is all I can think of.....but then in PVE you can just wear some pants and clear the field too....

Erock25

Sindala wrote: »

I don't know what game your playing but as a 2hand, heavy armour, sorcerer I have a really hard time to die....easily taking on 4 opponents levels above me.
Heck, i'm doing the end of the main questline at Level 43.

Your not playing your char correctly is all I can think of.....but then in PVE you can just wear some pants and clear the field too....

Pants? Where we're going, we don't need pants.

Ezareth

Sindala wrote: »

I don't know what game your playing but as a 2hand, heavy armour, sorcerer I have a really hard time to die....easily taking on 4 opponents levels above me.
Heck, i'm doing the end of the main questline at Level 43.

Your not playing your char correctly is all I can think of.....but then in PVE you can just wear some pants and clear the field too....

You're level 43. You know absolutely nothing about endgame raiding as a V14 Sorc. I can solo group delves in Upper craglorn with my existing build but that doesn't make my build viable in end raiding content. Trust me I have 65 days /played on my sorc right now and I've seen it all.

You can't pick a wrong build for doing the main questline or any of the VR content because it's all absurdly easy for a hardcore gamer and there are no 2 hand sorcs clearing veteran DSA or Serpent Trial.

Sindala

So you want to be able to solo everything in-game? Is that what your saying??
I can't see PVE changing all that much at higher levels, just gets harder.

I thought the new VR14 stuff added was for 2 or more people thou? I may have miss-read as I wasn't that interested as i'll never get there anyway.

jambam817_ESO

My mistake, I also know nothing of end game raiding at VR14, as my highest is VR8.

Too busy not stressing over silly stuff like Min/Maxing.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

It is true that Crushing Shock and weaving light attack with both Inner Light and Critical Surge running is extremely powerful.

Just killed the silly Gargoyle at Doomcrag for about 35 minutes till I noticed the instructions. Killed it over and over again, the others mobs are a rest in that case. Look at the hints people.

VR7 now. I still execute bosses with Fragments, Fury and Encase though.

Ezareth

Sindala wrote: »

So you want to be able to solo everything in-game? Is that what your saying??
I can't see PVE changing all that much at higher levels, just gets harder.

I thought the new VR14 stuff added was for 2 or more people thou? I may have miss-read as I wasn't that interested as i'll never get there anyway.

No I already can solo everything in game that can be soloed by anyone. I'm simply speaking about balance with respect to end game raiding and the complete lack of competitive Damage abilities with the sorc class tree. Literally there is only 1 class ability that is really useful in PvE (From a Min/max perspective) and that is Crit Surge.

Mage's wrath is great as an execute but it takes up a slot on your bar and it is only good for execute in PvE as it has both low DPS and mana efficiency despite being in the storm tree.

Fragments? Even as a proc and nearly free it is barely better than crushing shock.

Velocious curse is weak and is overwritten by any other VC from other sorcs .

Daedric mines can be great but they are situational and difficult to use correctly.

Surfinginhawaii

When we were grinding Craglorn most of the group were magic wielding sorcs and we kicked ass with that grouping.

Ezareth

Surfinginhawaii wrote: »

When we were grinding Craglorn most of the group were magic wielding sorcs and we kicked ass with that grouping.

I'm not saying that Sorcs aren't effective at solo content. They're fine soloing and Craglorn content is no exeception.

I'm talking about their damage at the upper tier of raiding being lackluster compared to other classes and the fact that the only damage ability we can use to be somewhat competitive isn't even a sorc ability.

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs

How can you moan about something that's not been changed yet, your just theory crafting and raging. Why dnt you try it first, oh and LOL, maybe its finally time the dress and stick felt the nerf

/skips away.....

poodlemasterb16_ESO

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Surfinginhawaii wrote: »

When we were grinding Craglorn most of the group were magic wielding sorcs and we kicked ass with that grouping.

I'm not saying that Sorcs aren't effective at solo content. They're fine soloing and Craglorn content is no exeception.

I'm talking about their damage at the upper tier of raiding being lackluster compared to other classes and the fact that the only damage ability we can use to be somewhat competitive isn't even a sorc ability.

Well to fair it's hard to get enough regen and magic with other classes but yeah, I spam it all the time.

Ezareth

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Surfinginhawaii wrote: »

When we were grinding Craglorn most of the group were magic wielding sorcs and we kicked ass with that grouping.

I'm not saying that Sorcs aren't effective at solo content. They're fine soloing and Craglorn content is no exeception.

I'm talking about their damage at the upper tier of raiding being lackluster compared to other classes and the fact that the only damage ability we can use to be somewhat competitive isn't even a sorc ability.

Well to fair it's hard to get enough regen and magic with other classes but yeah, I spam it all the time.

Every class has to spam spell symmetry for magicka, Sorc is no exception there.

maxilaub17_ESO

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

As it stands the major guilds in the game find themselves more successful by bring other classes over sorcs

In the game I play the major guilds and groups like to stack sorcs for Craglorn dungeons groups. That fact alone kinda of throws a wrench in most of your argument except about your rotation being boring.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Surfinginhawaii wrote: »

When we were grinding Craglorn most of the group were magic wielding sorcs and we kicked ass with that grouping.

I'm not saying that Sorcs aren't effective at solo content. They're fine soloing and Craglorn content is no exeception.

I'm talking about their damage at the upper tier of raiding being lackluster compared to other classes and the fact that the only damage ability we can use to be somewhat competitive isn't even a sorc ability.

Well to fair it's hard to get enough regen and magic with other classes but yeah, I spam it all the time.

Every class has to spam spell symmetry for magicka, Sorc is no exception there.

Well there is Critical Surge, sorcs only.

Asgari

there is a reason most trials guilds only use one or two sorcs when doing speed runs. There is only so many times your needed for a negate. Otherwise other classes offer better dps alternatives with damage mitigation. @ezareth_ESO‌ isn't wrong here, he is simply stating that to be a competative sorc there is only one option now to use.

eliisra

How the hell is this a sorc nerf?

This change mostly effects NB casters (and to a certain degree Templars that's already QQ behind all other classes in dps).

DK and Sorcerer have great synergy with destruction, so a possible resto nerf isn't a big deal.

NB casters use Restoration Staff. They might be allowed to cry a bit. But my main is a Templar, so I cant feel sorry for them, not even remotely. They're top dps in trials, so loosing 10% from weaving light attacks will hardly turn them into vegetables. I can share their pain when it comes to messed up cloaks and broken skills, but not PvE dps.

Arsenic_Touch

mar1ano1987nrb18_ESO wrote: »

I hope you are trolling OP

I hope so too, otherwise this is extremely hilarious. Kind of giggling right now.

Davadin

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

I can solo group delves in Upper craglorn with my existing build but that doesn't make my build viable in end raiding content. .

if that's not demotivating, i don't know what is...

Nestor

Wait, this is about Trials? 3 Dungeons out of all the rest of the content in the game?

Of course your build choices should be limited when you are playing a very limited aspect of the game.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

It is also to do with Critical Surge returning health, the magic buffs from using light attack and heavy attack, and Inner Light adding spell critical which Crushing Shock uses.

The combination is brutal.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Yes, it must be so terrible for you Sorcerers. If you want awesome mana management and great DPS, you can always roll up a Templar!

/sarcasm off