Why PVP is looking less appealing (to me) every day

jrgray93

PVP is usually what I like to do a lot of in MMOs. I've been playing ESO PVP for a couple of months now but I'm not sure how much more of it I can take. The appeal was certainly there at the start, but it only occasionally shows its face anymore. There are just too many issues holding back my enjoyment.

I'm about 85k AP from unlocking Barrier, and I think I'll play a lot more passively after that, and focus more on PVE content. Well, what is left of it for me. I have no interest in playing with the kind of people who are doing trials, as so many seem to be control freaks who just want on a leaderboard, nor would I be welcomed as a templar. So I just have quests / veteran dungeons left, and perhaps future content.

In the span of about a half hour yesterday, this is what I experienced.

Actual Bugs & Poor Mechanics:

- No less than four broken keep doors. Three would not open at all. One would only open when I swapped weapons.
- Permanent CC. I was squirming on my back and sliding around, unable to do anything but move. I had to try to get hit with another CC to break it, but ended up getting killed in the process.
- That instant dismount right after mounting bug that was "fixed" a few updates ago. Annoying enough in PVE, but can be lethal in PVP.
- Character animations failing. My first action bar will cast spells with no animations, so I basically just stand there, but the damage / healing and audio play. My alternate bar still works. Sometimes persists through loading screens / death, usually doesn't.
- Every other sorcerer exploiting the Streak bug and spamming Negate fields all over the place while simultaneously disorienting entire groups of players. Coupled with Talons spam from DKs, and nearly everyone in a Negate Magic field is doomed.
- Templar spells being unresponsive, causing spell rotations to fail or leading to accidental, additional casts (Puncturing Sweep more than necessary).
- Weapon swap constantly failing, also leading to casting the wrong spells.
- Random loading screens in the middle of combat.
- Laggy server communication. Not just me, but everyone in the zone. I have a 30 down / 5 up connection through an ASUS RT-N66U router. Speedtest.net always reads 95-105% of my connection speed and 1 ms. It's not on my end.
- Horrible game CPU optimization. This is an MMO with AVA PVP. There is no reason it should make such poor use of the CPU. I have an i7-4770k @ 4.6 GHz. There is no reason I should drop as low as I do, but I typically hover around 30 FPS in PVP, generally not dropping below 25, and the lowest I've seen was 17 in a battle so large, it crashed the server.
- I placed a ballista and it didn't automatically make me use it. The ballista became unusable and promptly broke while at 90% HP. Woohoo.
- My ballistas sometimes fire off in random directions that they weren't even facing, and then must be turned back around to fire again. Not to mention, this makes me look incredibly stupid to my team. They're all firing at the wall and I'm the one idiot shooting at a tree a mile away.

Subjectively BS:

- There are like four builds people use in PVP that actually present a challenge. Everyone else is cannon-fodder.
- Immobilize / root has no lockout timer. I feel sorry for people without cleansing abilities, as DKs can just permanently root them in a standard. Personally, I have Cleansing Ritual, but I can't use it half the time thanks to Negate Magic spam being fueled by a bug.

I will say I encountered somebody yesterday with a cool build that played heavily on immobilize. I hadn't seen anyone do this before so I was not at all prepared and got killed pretty effectively. He was a sorcerer using Stampede from the 2h line, but was primarily magicka-based. He would immobilize you and kill you from a distance. He was able to keep enough pressure on me that I had to heal, and as soon as I swapped to my offensive bar, he would immobilize me again, forcing me back to defensive for cleansing, where the cycle would repeat. Very skilled, very well played.

- A large portion of successful players are still running around in robes with 1h / shield or destro staff and vampirism.
- Block casting coupled with Devouring Swarm healing continues to keep the aforementioned spampires alive for centuries. There are counters to these builds but the current implementations of Silver Bolts and Dawnbreaker aren't worth it. Bolts has damage based on magicka but costs stamina, making it lackluster on anyone's bar, albeit not useless. Dawnbreaker just deals bad damage in comparison to other ultimates, and the animated never works for me anyway, making it unappealing from every angle.
- Nightblade builds killing you inside two seconds. On one hand, I like seeing a viable stamina build. On the other, dying before you are even able to break the stun is a bit absurd. There are a couple of things you can do about this, but sometimes it is so quick and unexpected, you're just completely without options. Luckily, most of them won't be able to kill you if you survive the initial burst.
- PVP rewards are poor. The "of the Pact" sets seem to come in a million flavors and I never get the ones I want, nor can I purchase a set I want from the vendors. Nor would I even want to! The lower VR gear is too expensive. Why buy it when I could just wait until the VR cap and buy the good stuff. Also, all I saw at lower levels was melee-based jewlery. Why no casting option?
- Campaigns cater to faction "home" campaigns where one faction dominates. As of yesterday, DC had everything in Chillrend and they were camping EP gates. There's no fun in that. The 30 campaign seems more competitive. Don't get me wrong. I don't mind losing. I would be just as bored if it was EP doing that to anyone else.
- The strong get stronger. The weak get more useless points. This makes comebacks harder to accomplish, as if everyone jumping ship to another campaign wasn't bad enough.

Erock25

I agree with a lot of what you say but at the same time a lot of your complaints seem to be learn to play issues or maybe you don't really have a good grasp on the game such as complaining about devouring swarm instead of clouding swarm.

jrgray93

Erock25 wrote: »

I agree with a lot of what you say but at the same time a lot of your complaints seem to be learn to play issues or maybe you don't really have a good grasp on the game such as complaining about devouring swarm instead of clouding swarm.

It isn't a "learn to play" issue. I didn't complain about the spell. I complained that everyone and their mom uses it. I mentioned that it keeps them alive for a long time. That doesn't mean I don't know what to do about it. I simply move away from players using those tactics. That doesn't stop the health regen given by the swarm feeding on some of the 10 or so players that didn't get that memo.

I have a good grasp on the game. I know Clouding Swarm is even more absurd. I simply mentioned the one I see more often.

Erock25

jrgray93 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

I agree with a lot of what you say but at the same time a lot of your complaints seem to be learn to play issues or maybe you don't really have a good grasp on the game such as complaining about devouring swarm instead of clouding swarm.

It isn't a "learn to play" issue. I didn't complain about the spell. I complained that everyone and their mom uses it. I mentioned that it keeps them alive for a long time. That doesn't mean I don't know what to do about it. I simply move away from players using those tactics. That doesn't stop the health regen given by the swarm feeding on the 10 or so players that didn't get that memo.

You missed the point.

"anyone in negate is doomed" - you know you can CC break it, right?
"devouring swarm is OP" - clouding is much more OP because you are not targetable except for NB with marked target on you
"my balista misfired" - you most likely clicked too many times while firing the last round. it stores previous clicks.
"horse dismount" - you most likely hit the horse button twice
"lag" - yeah it sucks and I agree it is annoying and this probably led to the prior two complaints above


Basically your whole post can be summarized as "I don't have a full grasp on this game and I am upset that it isn't as polished in the first 6 months after release as WOW was years after release."

Gorthax

i said it before and I will say it again.....get a sorc buddy to run with you (or a random who uses negate and will use it right) when you see ANY form of bats be it draining or clouding, they pop negate. Issue solved, target available for death, other players from your side saved.

TheBull

I understand where you are coming from OP. I've experienced nearly all of what you wrote about, and have felt just like you on several occasion.

The game is too good to have so many skill line bugs and for the UI to fail so often. At this point I would love to see -

"Patch 1.5 - Balancing and Skill line fixes"

Then I would like to hear ZOS say -

"With Patch 1.5 we are dedicated to insuring ALL skills work as intended and improved balance between the classes, armor types and weapons."

jrgray93

Please see yourself out if you're going to be like this.

"anyone in negate is doomed" - Never said that. CC break only works so many times before you're out of resources. You also have to CC break AND roll to get out of that, anyway. I get out of most of them, regardless.

"devouring swarm is OP" - Again, never said that. Never meant to imply that. So let me be clear; I have no problems countering vampires, personally.

"my ballista misfired" - No, I know exactly what happened. It instantly fired in a completely different direction because I happened to be looking over there when my first shot was reloading. The ballista never even turned. It just fired and instantly faced the wrong way.

"horse dismount" - No. I hit it once. Thanks for making even more baseless assumptions to derail my points.

Erock25

jrgray93 wrote: »

Please see yourself out if you're going to be like this.

I do what I want!

Sorry that I think your little list that you thought was important enough to post on the forums is pretty weak. It seems you have a bad connection to the game server and expect it to run as flawlessly as an MMO that has been around for years and years and also had a very rough first 6 months itself.

Most of your non-lag/non-bug complaints are laughable.

Sacadon

Wow, of all the whining and moaning from players that could just focus all that energy on being a better player... this is one of the most constructive ways to share your concerns as a player that I've seen in a while. Very nice! Overall, your post gives me a clear impression that you are fully aware of what type of build would allow you to have the greatest success in PvP.

Regarding game performance/lag... I too have a pretty insane build and internet pipe. In discussing this behavior with a colleague of mine he reminded me that many MMO's will scale the collective performance of the group in-play down to the lowest common denominator (slowest responding player) to ensure that all of the game mechanics play (mostly) as expected. So if there's someone in the immediate battle/group running a dog-slow setup it will scale the overall perf back to ensure the mechanics play more closely to what's expected (synchronous). I do NOT know if this is the case w/ESO, but expect that in 1v1 combat, this has to be some factor. Either way, it would be great to hear from someone that may have any information on this.

Additionally...

- Previously I was not able to break out of talons, but am able to dodge-roll out of them successfully now. Not sure if this was me or the game.
- I've a VR12 templar as well and can confirm all of your experiences as consistent with mine. We've high survivability, but are challenged to apply DPS out of the native skill line whereas DK and Sorc require less creativity to do so.

BTW, EB in Thornblade is very focused and respected in the campaign for that (FWIW).

morvegil

The game is BORCED...or SORCED. Nightblades need some buffs. Like the OP said...if we cant kill you in the first shot, we are pretty much dead. Who wants to play Russian Roulette in PVP everytime.

A good character with buffs and armor wont die in the first shot...so most liekly you lose.

CapuchinSeven

Erock25 wrote: »

jrgray93 wrote: »

Please see yourself out if you're going to be like this.

I do what I want!

Sorry that I think your little list that you thought was important enough to post on the forums is pretty weak. It seems you have a bad connection to the game server and expect it to run as flawlessly as an MMO that has been around for years and years and also had a very rough first 6 months itself.

Most of your non-lag/non-bug complaints are laughable.

No offence dude, but you're the one coming across badly.
You've put words into his mouth.

Karikin

Erock25 wrote: »

jrgray93 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

I agree with a lot of what you say but at the same time a lot of your complaints seem to be learn to play issues or maybe you don't really have a good grasp on the game such as complaining about devouring swarm instead of clouding swarm.

It isn't a "learn to play" issue. I didn't complain about the spell. I complained that everyone and their mom uses it. I mentioned that it keeps them alive for a long time. That doesn't mean I don't know what to do about it. I simply move away from players using those tactics. That doesn't stop the health regen given by the swarm feeding on the 10 or so players that didn't get that memo.

You missed the point.

"anyone in negate is doomed" - you know you can CC break it, right?
"devouring swarm is OP" - clouding is much more OP because you are not targetable except for NB with marked target on you
"my balista misfired" - you most likely clicked too many times while firing the last round. it stores previous clicks.
"horse dismount" - you most likely hit the horse button twice
"lag" - yeah it sucks and I agree it is annoying and this probably led to the prior two complaints above


Basically your whole post can be summarized as "I don't have a full grasp on this game and I am upset that it isn't as polished in the first 6 months after release as WOW was years after release."

While I agree with you to a point... a few things:

"anyone in negate is doomed" - you know you can CC break it, right? - he was talking about the combination of this + streaking which you CAN'T break if you are being streaked constantly (though this is getting nerfed next patch)

"my balista misfired" - you most likely clicked too many times while firing the last round. it stores previous clicks. - this is a known bug where in you place a piece of siege equipment and it unusable, I am rank 17 in PvP so I think I have some experience with this (got those ranks without farming AP)

"horse dismount" - you most likely hit the horse button twice - again, known bug and the only way to avoid it entirely is to use auto run and don't sprint for the first second or so

"lag" - yeah it sucks and I agree it is annoying and this probably led to the prior two complaints above - isn't the cause of the previous two issues, again, previous two issues are KNOWN bugs that ZOS is "working on"

LonePirate

morvegil wrote: »

The game is BORCED...or SORCED. Nightblades need some buffs. Like the OP said...if we cant kill you in the first shot, we are pretty much dead. Who wants to play Russian Roulette in PVP everytime.

A good character with buffs and armor wont die in the first shot...so most liekly you lose.

A good nightblade can get off more than one shot before the unsuspecting target can fire off that first shot.

That being said, I am fully on board with giving NBs more survivabity but they need to sacrifice some of the massive burst DPS they have. If you can make a case for having both, then my DK wants some huge DPS burst skill instead of one of the numerous DOT skills we have that are easily countered/healed.

jrgray93

Just for a little bit of context on NB durability; the killing NBs achievement was the first of the four I unlocked by at least 15 kills.

That said, I've seen a few NBs with sword & shield / medium or heavy armor builds that have some really cool tactics for staying alive. You see one once in a blue moon, tanking quite a few players, but the class archetype attracts far more players who want to stealth and use DW / bow, so they are a rarity.

stewie_801

jrgray93 wrote: »

- Every other sorcerer exploiting the Streak bug and spamming Negate fields all over the place while simultaneously disorienting entire groups of players. Coupled with Talons spam from DKs, and nearly everyone in a Negate Magic field is doomed.
- Laggy server communication. Not just me, but everyone in the zone. I have a 30 down / 5 up connection through an ASUS RT-N66U router. Speedtest.net always reads 95-105% of my connection speed and 1 ms. It's not on my end.
- Horrible game CPU optimization. This is an MMO with AVA PVP. There is no reason it should make such poor use of the CPU. I have an i7-4770k @ 4.6 GHz. There is no reason I should drop as low as I do, but I typically hover around 30 FPS in PVP, generally not dropping below 25, and the lowest I've seen was 17 in a battle so large, it crashed the server.

- Nightblade builds killing you inside two seconds. On one hand, I like seeing a viable stamina build. On the other, dying before you are even able to break the stun is a bit absurd. There are a couple of things you can do about this, but sometimes it is so quick and unexpected, you're just completely without options. Luckily, most of them won't be able to kill you if you survive the initial burst.

jrgray93 wrote: »

"anyone in negate is doomed" - Never said that. CC break only works so many times before you're out of resources. You also have to CC break AND roll to get out of that, anyway. I get out of most of them, regardless.

"

Cut down the quotes to just some parts I'll talk about.

True you never said anyone in negate is doomed, just nearly everyone. But still immovable from heavy armor or breaking out works for this. For how it's built up, BE currently does not have an AOE cap, thus sorcs can get a large amount of ult extremely quickly by spamming it through groups. This has been stated that it will be fixed with the upcoming patch. However, negate is an ult, it should be somewhat powerful, so if you ran out of resources to break out or don't use immovable, it should affect you so.

With the laggy connection, I know everyone always wants to post there speedtest.net results, but you do realize that it automatically chooses the closest server to you, so naturally you are going to have a low ping and high downloads to it. From what I can gather, the NA server is in Maryland, so I would suggest you select a server there to do your speedtest on.

Also just because I'm not sure of your setup, are you currently using an ethernet cable from your pc to your computer? Highly recommend you do if your aren't already. Also I know you can get what ports to open up from the tech support page, and suggest you have a QOS (quality of service) setup for your pc. I noticed that even though I am the only one on my internet, having a QOS improved my connection on ESO. Also noticed on my new router, I had to setup a download QOS and upload QOS, whereas my old router one QOS automatically prioritized both for my pc. Just some helpful advice in case you don't know about these or don't do these things.

It does seem ESO does not use our CPU's power very well. Based on other threads/discussions, it seems like it only uses one core of our CPU and does not really seem to be able to take advantage of over clocked CPU's. I also have my 4770k @4.6 so I feel you there. I used to have it at 4.25 and recently upped it to 4.6 and did not really seen any performance improvements with ESO.

With the NB killing your in two seconds, most are using a magicka build, not stamina. On my NB I have the stygian set, open with Ambush/Suprise Atttack which can deal upwards of 2500 damage if I crit. Finish with Impale/Killers Blade for another 1k-1.5k hit. Ways to keep me from critical striking you is impenetrable gear, with that I am likely to hit for around 1200-1500 with those two hits. So there are ways to counter it that give you the time to break out of the stun and turn and kill them.

I do agree there are some things that this game needs to improve on. A few other things that you mentioned ZOS has mentioned fixes for them being tested, and being pushed out soon, i.e. the postern doors not working. Other things could still be lag and yes still can happen to me, but don't happen that often. However, ZOS should always be looking at ways to minimize latency, improve server functionality for everyone, and removing bugs. But I do think it would be better not to compare ESO that is just hitting its 6 month mark, to a MMO that has been out for a long time. WOW should have there stuff working better than ESO.

superfluke

- Block casting coupled with Devouring Swarm healing continues to keep the aforementioned spampires alive for centuries.

Some of your complaints were a little over the top imo but you get an Awesome for that quote!

jrgray93

Regarding my network, I appreciate the tips, and while networking is probably my achilles heel at the moment, I am somewhat of an IT nerd. I have in fact tested my ping in the Maryland area prior to this discussion, as well as other areas the ESO servers were rumored to be. I make 40 MS to Maryland, which is not high enough to account for the issues I experienced.

And I figured some people wouldn't agree with all of my complaints, which is why I tried to specify in the title that the issues are personally affecting me, as well as separating my list of grievances into two categories; bugs and subjective experiences.

Also, I wasn't trying to compare the state of ESO to WoW. I was just setting up my background as somebody who heavily enjoys PVP. I think I'll edit the original post to clarify that, as I am not trying to draw comparisons.

stewie_801

jrgray93 wrote: »

Regarding my network, I appreciate the tips, and while networking is probably my achilles heel at the moment, I am somewhat of an IT nerd. I have in fact tested my ping in the Maryland area prior to this discussion, as well as other areas the ESO servers were rumored to be. I make 40 MS to Maryland, which is not high enough to account for the issues I experienced.

And I figured some people wouldn't agree with all of my complaints, which is why I tried to specify in the title that the issues are personally affecting me, as well as separating my list of grievances into two categories; bugs and subjective experiences.

Also, I wasn't trying to compare the state of ESO to WoW. I was just setting up my background as somebody who heavily enjoys PVP. I think I'll edit the original post to clarify that, as I am not trying to draw comparisons.

Yeah I've heard several places rumored for their servers, and also had a similar ping to Maryland area. And that was before I set up my QOS. Once I did that, it improved my performance in Cyrodiil greatly.

Someone on another thread mentioned getting a ping to the ESO servers out of your resource monitor if you have windows. I did that and it generally shows between 30-40ms for me there as well.

Sallington

Erock25 wrote: »

*SNIP*
I am upset that it isn't as polished in the first 6 months after release as WOW was years after release."

You just describe 90% of the complaints on these forums.

jrgray93

Sallington wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

*SNIP*
I am upset that it isn't as polished in the first 6 months after release as WOW was years after release."

You just describe 90% of the complaints on these forums.

But it does not at all describe the points I was making.

Sallington

jrgray93 wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

*SNIP*
I am upset that it isn't as polished in the first 6 months after release as WOW was years after release."

You just describe 90% of the complaints on these forums.

But it does not at all describe the points I was making.

I apologize. That comment wasn't directed at you, and was off topic.

I actually agree with a lot of the points in your OP. The random ballista becoming unresponsive and the CPU optimization are two of my biggest pet peeves right now.

jrgray93

Sallington wrote: »

jrgray93 wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

*SNIP*
I am upset that it isn't as polished in the first 6 months after release as WOW was years after release."

You just describe 90% of the complaints on these forums.

But it does not at all describe the points I was making.

I apologize. That comment wasn't directed at you, and was off topic.

I actually agree with a lot of the points in your OP.

No apology necessary, but I appreciate it. Just trying to make sure people don't get the wrong message from my posts. It's a little frustrating when I say something and somebody twists it into something else, as you may have seen happen xD

Tonnopesce

Yeah just try to come in "cili" (eu) my guild own that campaign we will erease evrybody.....
No seriusly a little bit of competition will be a good ting.... since you know even own a campaign is a disadvantage...the emperor never change.
It is a bad situation since the courrent emperor has like 1.2mil points and even my guild mates more hardcore that are in position from 2 to 10 cant get the title since nobody will come in that campaign...
bad design for the emperorship.....

deepseamk20b14_ESO

I agree with much of the op's points. When everyone starts running the same exact build there is a balancing issue and for a game that says you can play how you want holds true. You just won't be competitive. CPU optimization is needed and bugs need to be fixed. Zos seems to be okay about fixing bugs so I still have faith in them. Better rewards in PvP could be cool. I really don't think op is bitching, perhaps stating the obvious. But if people stay silent, zos will assume everything is okay.

dgoss11b14_ESO

oh hey how about people using flamming oils in the middle of close quarters combat combat, that's always fun too. They really should make it so that you need to be on the edge of something with drop of 5m or more, or have it so you cannot use the oil if you are within it's aoe.... or something like that. Just seems a bit silly to see someone put down an oil, and while standing directly in the middle of the aoe, spilling hot oil everywhere for enemies to feel.

Shunravi

jrgray93 wrote: »

Just for a little bit of context on NB durability; the killing NBs achievement was the first of the four I unlocked by at least 15 kills.

That said, I've seen a few NBs with sword & shield / medium or heavy armor builds that have some really cool tactics for staying alive. You see one once in a blue moon, tanking quite a few players, but the class archetype attracts far more players who want to stealth and use DW / bow, so they are a rarity.

Yup, us S&B nightblades are indeed quite rare (it's more my buddy than me though). And it supprises even us, what we are able to last through. I just wish more people would see what the class has to offer, beyond the rouge stereotype...

bosmern_ESO

I really enjoy PvP, sure sometimes I won't like it as much if I'm having constant problems (but eventually I get over it). Everything in the coming years will be fixed, you just have to be patient.

No MMO ever has had perfectly balanced PvP, there will always be something that will be stronger then the other builds.

Xsorus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6UPBx0dmeQ

philip.ploegerb16_ESO

No useful progression past Assault / Support Rank 10, so the lack of i. e. "Real Realm Abilities" , is enough for me to have no motivation at most times.

dcincali

Currently there is a bug with negate and immovable/morphs that cause you to be perma negated and you have to relog to clear it. My group is doing testing on it at the moment as there is one group we fight in particular that this happens to us on constantly.