Crafted Gear vs Drops

k9mouse

I have a max out crafter -- max level in every craft, max skill points, almost know every trait in the game (I have the items in the queue, just a matter of time that I do), put up with over flowing INV, etc etc

I believe that crafted gear should always be better then drop gear. To make make crafting mean something after so much hard work went into being a "top level crafter."

Point number two, I want crafting to be very hard to get into and only those who willing to put in the time and the needed work should be able to be a "top crafter" We do not want "everyone and their mother" can craft "Link's master sword" That too will take away from crafting and makes it so that it has no meaning.

Nestor

To me, Crafted Gear is always better than Dropped Gear. Reason, I have never acquired all the pieces I need to complete a Dropped set. I think I have gotten 3 items a couple of times, but I was already leveled out of the range for the gear that I kept.

As for Crafting, it is already difficult to master the 3 main professions. I have one crafter for Wood and Clothing, and one for Blacksmithing. Both of them lack the skill progression in combat and defence that my dedicated quester has. In fact, my Sorcerer (Cloth/WW) is quite weak in battles now. I am questing with her just to get some skyshards so she can survive in the VR ranks. This is after I pulled my Alchemy points from her. It's kind of a catch 22. Where my DK can clean the floor in the same content (at a lower character level) and my NB can handle himself just fine (less points to crafting on him)

No way could I imagine leveling up other crafting lines at the same time on these characters. I even had to pull all my Provisioning points from the NB (Prov 50 and knows almost every recipe) to give him some points in combat and defence. Sure, once I get deeper into Caldwell's quests, I will have more skill points to use, but I will be leveling up the other Crafting skills that I have neglected along the way first.

bluesodafizz

Cool, how do you think the devs should make crafting more difficult? What I mean is, what would this system look like in your ideal scenario?

BBSooner

As far as endgame is concerned - the better set bonuses should be drops since it requires a "display of aptitude" to attain (and drop as purple to require a crafter to upgrade it) but the stats should be equal to crafted gear of same level. Imo, of course.

seanolan

BBSooner wrote: »

As far as endgame is concerned - the better set bonuses should be drops since it requires a "display of aptitude" to attain (and drop as purple to require a crafter to upgrade it) but the stats should be equal to crafted gear of same level. Imo, of course.

Absolutely wrong. What, then, would be ANY incentive to craft? Certainly not for pre-veteran levels...while there is a significant advantage to crafted gear before vet levels, it is not worth the multiple skill points needed to gain that advantage. Endgame sets should be 8-9 trait crafting sets, not easy drops from bosses/delves/etc. Doing a delve says you spent 30 mins - 2 hours on getting your Cuirass of Burly Manhood. Maxing out crafting says you spent some serious time and effort on your Golden Breastplate of Godly Pectorals. Which one deserves more reward - the one who has been aiming from the beginning to craft, or the one who rushed through to the end counting on endgame drops to give him the blue pill of winniness? There's no "display of aptitude" in doing an endgame delve....just the same button clicking as any other location, only faster, since the delves seem to be speed based rather than skill.

BBSooner

seanolan wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

As far as endgame is concerned - the better set bonuses should be drops since it requires a "display of aptitude" to attain (and drop as purple to require a crafter to upgrade it) but the stats should be equal to crafted gear of same level. Imo, of course.

Absolutely wrong. What, then, would be ANY incentive to craft? Certainly not for pre-veteran levels...while there is a significant advantage to crafted gear before vet levels, it is not worth the multiple skill points needed to gain that advantage. Endgame sets should be 8-9 trait crafting sets, not easy drops from bosses/delves/etc. Doing a delve says you spent 30 mins - 2 hours on getting your Cuirass of Burly Manhood. Maxing out crafting says you spent some serious time and effort on your Golden Breastplate of Godly Pectorals. Which one deserves more reward - the one who has been aiming from the beginning to craft, or the one who rushed through to the end counting on endgame drops to give him the blue pill of winniness? There's no "display of aptitude" in doing an endgame delve....just the same button clicking as any other location, only faster, since the delves seem to be speed based rather than skill.

Sorry, I maxed all the crafts, it wasn't difficult at all (in fact it wad merely a byproduct of leveling my character). You're free to disagree, but there is greater chance for a display of aptitude in a difficulty designed dungeon than in the crafting system. Hopefully ZOS never makes crafting center stage, and keeps it required by making the BiS gear require both crafting and raiding.

seanolan

You have not maxed the crafts...time-wise, it LITERALLY is not possible yet to have maxed out all the blacksmithing/clothing/woodworking traits. Woodworking, alone,can be maxed out at the moment. Getting to level 50 is not maxing the craft. As well, as soon as 1.4 comes out, there will be another trait to max to, so you are doubly wrong.

Shizashane

so far my crafted gear is always better than drops. I mean every once in a while you will find something beast but then you can just make it yourself. I do however like some of the purple gear from the pvp vendors even though I will never buy them.... ever. lol

Pseudonym

Crafted gear pretty much is always better than dropped gear (of the same level) and as for longevity and prestige concerning the crafts, by the time Nirnhoned is released, we'll have people researching the ninth trait (for a rather long time)

I imagine that once the game has been out a few years, there will only be a handful (of active members) who can craft you a full 14 trait set. Hang in there.

Oh, and you're missing at least 20 skill points.

chimneyswift_ESO

k9mouse wrote: »

We do not want "everyone and their mother" can craft "Link's master sword" That too will take away from crafting and makes it so that it has no meaning.

Amen! Crafting should be an ongoing process, ALL the time...not just something you can achieve by playing through the game and getting to level 50 no problem.

BBSooner

seanolan wrote: »

You have not maxed the crafts...time-wise, it LITERALLY is not possible yet to have maxed out all the blacksmithing/clothing/woodworking traits. Getting to level 50 is not maxing the craft. As well, as soon as 1.4 comes out, there will be another trait to max to, so you are doubly wrong.

I have, though ill concede that some are currently researching the last 3 8trait categories as I have 2 clothiers and 2 blacksmith. The time gate do the 9 gate is silly as well - time gates are best left to mobile p2w games, but that's another story.

More to the point though, a player who only crafts or only raids ahould have an inferior gear ceiling than a person who does both.

seanolan

Having them SPLIT among your alt characters is not maxed/mastered crafting. Any more than BUYING a endgame armor is "doing a delve".

dharbert

seanolan wrote: »

Having them SPLIT among your alt characters is not maxed/mastered crafting. Any more than BUYING a endgame armor is "doing a delve".

This exactly. I am currently researching all traits for EVERY craft on a SINGLE character. It takes a minimum of 306 days to do that on one character. And that's just for 8 trait. The 9th trait will add months to that.

OrangeTheCat

Nestor wrote: »

To me, Crafted Gear is always better than Dropped Gear. Reason, I have never acquired all the pieces I need to complete a Dropped set. I think I have gotten 3 items a couple of times, but I was already leveled out of the range for the gear that I kept.

As for Crafting, it is already difficult to master the 3 main professions. I have one crafter for Wood and Clothing, and one for Blacksmithing. Both of them lack the skill progression in combat and defence that my dedicated quester has. In fact, my Sorcerer (Cloth/WW) is quite weak in battles now. I am questing with her just to get some skyshards so she can survive in the VR ranks. This is after I pulled my Alchemy points from her. It's kind of a catch 22. Where my DK can clean the floor in the same content (at a lower character level) and my NB can handle himself just fine (less points to crafting on him)

No way could I imagine leveling up other crafting lines at the same time on these characters. I even had to pull all my Provisioning points from the NB (Prov 50 and knows almost every recipe) to give him some points in combat and defence. Sure, once I get deeper into Caldwell's quests, I will have more skill points to use, but I will be leveling up the other Crafting skills that I have neglected along the way first.

That's odd because I've maxed all the crafts (not trait-wise, just in terms of levels and the crafts skills) on my sorc and have nearly all the non-crafting skills unlocked (but I admit my sorc is neither a vamp nor a WW and I don't want her to be, so I saved on those skill points) and I still have about 9 skill points unused because I can't decide what to spend them on. I only got through two of the other faction's Cadwell's.

dharbert

There are more than enough skill points available to max out every crafting profession and still have over 100 skill points left for PvE and PvP.

OrangeTheCat

dharbert wrote: »

There are more than enough skill points available to max out every crafting profession and still have over 100 skill points left for PvE and PvP.

Right. Which is why I've never understood why people claim you have to spread crafting out among numerous alts. It's just such a pain to have to logoff/on numerous times a day just to deal with crafting. Maybe that mentality is a carry-over from other games where maybe it was required.

ExiledKhallisi

They have already set a precedent with crafting gear being on par with dropped gear. If one becomes better than the other. The game will die.

BBSooner

seanolan wrote: »

Having them SPLIT among your alt characters is not maxed/mastered crafting. Any more than BUYING a endgame armor is "doing a delve".

I'll have access to all 8trait crafts (incredibly easy to do as well btw) and be 100% self sufficient, the limitations you place on yourself when crafting is your own doing.

BBSooner

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

dharbert wrote: »

There are more than enough skill points available to max out every crafting profession and still have over 100 skill points left for PvE and PvP.

Right. Which is why I've never understood why people claim you have to spread crafting out among numerous alts. It's just such a pain to have to logoff/on numerous times a day just to deal with crafting. Maybe that mentality is a carry-over from other games where maybe it was required.

Its more so to do with speed of research, especially since ZOS has proven they dont mind adding more traits at idiotic research lengths. Also, bag space organization.

dharbert

It will take me longer to learn all traits and crafts on a single character, but I also won't have to log in and out of 8 toons just to craft something and manage inventory on 8 toons. Not many players will be able to make that claim.

Doesn't really matter to me how long it takes, I will be among the very few who can do everything on a single character.

BBSooner

dharbert wrote: »

It will take me longer to learn all traits and crafts on a single character, but I also won't have to log in and out of 8 toons just to craft something and manage inventory on 8 toons. Not many players will be able to make that claim.

Doesn't really matter to me how long it takes, I will be among the very few who can do everything on a single character.

More power to you, I'm doing the same on at least one character since crafting doesn't require much effort once you get to the research barrier.

Audigy

bluesodafizz wrote: »

Cool, how do you think the devs should make crafting more difficult? What I mean is, what would this system look like in your ideal scenario?

Quests, exploration would be required to unlock new things. Right now this isn't the case, we go to a table and then automatically can craft the stuff there.

Greatfellow

k9mouse wrote: »

I believe that crafted gear should always be better then drop gear. To make make crafting mean something after so much hard work went into being a "top level crafter."

I absolutely agree. One appeal of this game to me is that crafted gear/potions/food/enchants are superior. Get rid of that and you get rid of fully half the reason I play.

Zorrashi

Totally agree with the sentiment of crafted armor being better (or equal to) drops. One of the reason I love ESO is how it deviated from certain gear-grind MMOs. Crafters essentially meant little in those.

I somewhat agree with the "making crafting harder" sentiment. But not in the typical notion that usually concerns making crafting tied to combat drops in some form or fashion.

In time, almost anyone can get to max level and know all traits (yes, I know it is time consuming...as in, months worth of waiting and finding). The core of my peeve? An almost inherent lack of specialty and variety among crafters. Traits don't seem to cut it (for me, at least). It is essentially a finding and waiting game.

But I don't want the answer to that to be anything related to dungeons, delves or anything that basically requires one to fight their way to a recipe, temper or mats. I basically want crafting expertise and skill to be based on..y'know...crafting. Not fighting/butchering monsters.

timidobserver

I'd be fine with them being equal. I don't need dropped gear or crafted gear to be useless just to make one side or the other feel better. Just make all of it solid gear.

Knootewoot

Nestor wrote: »

To me, Crafted Gear is always better than Dropped Gear. Reason, I have never acquired all the pieces I need to complete a Dropped set. I think I have gotten 3 items a couple of times, but I was already leveled out of the range for the gear that I kept.

As for Crafting, it is already difficult to master the 3 main professions. I have one crafter for Wood and Clothing, and one for Blacksmithing. Both of them lack the skill progression in combat and defence that my dedicated quester has. In fact, my Sorcerer (Cloth/WW) is quite weak in battles now. I am questing with her just to get some skyshards so she can survive in the VR ranks. This is after I pulled my Alchemy points from her. It's kind of a catch 22. Where my DK can clean the floor in the same content (at a lower character level) and my NB can handle himself just fine (less points to crafting on him)

No way could I imagine leveling up other crafting lines at the same time on these characters. I even had to pull all my Provisioning points from the NB (Prov 50 and knows almost every recipe) to give him some points in combat and defence. Sure, once I get deeper into Caldwell's quests, I will have more skill points to use, but I will be leveling up the other Crafting skills that I have neglected along the way first.

Bollocks. You cannot have all the skills/attacks/passives working. So if you have 2 attack skilllines and the usefull skills of class and passives you can actually use (like if your not using mageguild skills the passives of this won't work) you can still have lots of crafting skills and be strong to fight and kill.

In VR area's i had all in Provisioning lvl 50, alchemy, clothing and enhancting. I had my NB skills which i used+passives, medium armor+passives, dual wield+passives and bow+passives and vampire skill line and soul and racials.

There are more then enough skillpoints, and i still have more then 50 points which i didnt distribute yet because there is nothing usefull. I want some passives but that requires me to use skills which i cant use because i already have skills enough i use.

Greatfellow

yeah, I have one alt do alchemy, one do provisioning, and one do enchanting (i could have put all that on to one alt, but it was easier to just spread it to three, less leveling needed).

That leaves my main char plenty of points for all combat needs plus be a lvl 50 woodworker, clothier, and blacksmith, plus a level 50 provisioner (for food perks) level something alchemist (for those consumption perks that don't work) with all the passives I need. Loads of points in this game, if you aren't so silly as to make your main try to do all the crafts.

Anastasia

Greatfellow wrote: »

yeah, I have one alt do alchemy, one do provisioning, and one do enchanting (i could have put all that on to one alt, but it was easier to just spread it to three, less leveling needed).

That leaves my main char plenty of points for all combat needs plus be a lvl 50 woodworker, clothier, and blacksmith, plus a level 50 provisioner (for food perks) level something alchemist (for those consumption perks that don't work) with all the passives I need. Loads of points in this game, if you aren't so silly as to make your main try to do all the crafts.

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OR if you aren't so silly as to not venture into Cyr to get some goodie points there as well ;o). Some don't though.