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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
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Give us back Elders Scrolls. Elder Scrolls The Dumbing Down.

BumboklatMon
Have we been forgotten? Us, your loyal fans from day one? I understand feeding the casuals = more $$ for you but, you're destroying a the baby you've created that we've all grown to love so much.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=JweTAhyR4o0

I will honestly be excitedly waiting for the next chapter in the Elder Scrolls. I really hope Bethesda will get back to their roots and give this series its soul back.


One Love
From a gamer just like you,
BumboklatMon. o:)
Edited by BumboklatMon on August 27, 2014 8:53PM
  • AlexDougherty
    AlexDougherty
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    They do need to go through the game, and fix the breaks in the lore, some just require a bit of renaming, others needs redoing.

    I know some people don't get why the lore is important, but without the lore it's not an Elder Scrolls game, it just resembles one. The lore shapes the feel of the games, the cultures, the organisations, the places, it all combines into the whole package.
    People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
    Wizard's first rule
    Passion rules reason
    Wizard's third rule
    Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
    Wizard's fifth rule
    Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
    Wizard's tenth rule
  • Pallmor
    Pallmor
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    Who's this "us" you're talking about, buddy? I've been playing Elder Scrolls since Morrowind and I like ESO just fine.
  • andre.roques.3b14_ESO
    This is an MMO not a stand alone sandbox TES game. That colors the entire implementation and gameplay...to some great degree.

    There will be a TESVI and hopefully it will be Skyrim+. At least that too will make me happy.
    NA MegaServer
    Alicron AD Altmer Templar
    Caltrinity EP Dunmer Sorcerer
    Brehhanon Moonblood DC Breton Nightblade
  • ItsMeToo
    ItsMeToo
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    Pallmor wrote: »
    Who's this "us" you're talking about, buddy? I've been playing Elder Scrolls since Morrowind and I like ESO just fine.

    MeToo
    Edited by ItsMeToo on August 27, 2014 8:56PM
    FYI - There is no such thing as 'night capping' in a world wide MMO.
    FYI - There was no paid Beta. When they launched the game the Beta was over, even if you don't think it was.
    FYI - It's B2P not F2P. There is a difference.
    FYI - It doesn't take any player skill to mash keys or buttons in this game. The ones that stay alive longer have the better internet connection and speed.
    FYI - The game is not broken, it still works. It just has 'bugs' that need to be fixed.
    Balance is a "Bad" thing.

    Example: There were hundreds of Jedi and only two Sith in Star Wars. The Jedi wanted, "Balance in the Force" and they got it. Now there are only two Jedi and two Sith.

    Balance is a "Bad" thing.
    Is the glass half full or half empty?
    I say, "Get a smaller glass."
  • SirAndy
    SirAndy
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    ... I understand feeding the casuals ...
    Sorry, but you lost all credibility right then and there. I think you're confused about the meaning of the term casual.
    rolleyes.gif
  • smeeprocketnub19_ESO
    smeeprocketnub19_ESO
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    I hope TES VI isn't as easy as Skyrim. That game was far far too easy, and way too into hand holding. Morrowind and Oblivion had good challenge levels.
    Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.
  • BumboklatMon
    Pallmor wrote: »
    Who's this "us" you're talking about, buddy? I've been playing Elder Scrolls since Morrowind and I like ESO just fine.


    People who can see through the plastic experience they have created for casual gamers. If you enjoy ESO; you just love mmo's and the experience of new trending mmo's or, your a casual. You must've been young when playing morrowind cause if you don't see the difference in depth of interaction.
    This is an MMO not a stand alone sandbox TES game. That colors the entire implementation and gameplay...to some great degree.

    There will be a TESVI and hopefully it will be Skyrim+. At least that too will make me happy.

    I know this is an MMO game but, I want the most attention from Bethesda and I would assume they pay attention to this forum more than any other ;)
    Edited by BumboklatMon on August 27, 2014 9:04PM
  • andre.roques.3b14_ESO
    SirAndy wrote: »
    ... I understand feeding the casuals ...
    Sorry, but you lost all credibility right then and there. I think you're confused about the meaning of the term casual.
    rolleyes.gif

    To be fair, I sometime to wear scrubs/PJs while playing...guess I am a casual player.
    NA MegaServer
    Alicron AD Altmer Templar
    Caltrinity EP Dunmer Sorcerer
    Brehhanon Moonblood DC Breton Nightblade
  • BumboklatMon
    SirAndy wrote: »
    ... I understand feeding the casuals ...
    Sorry, but you lost all credibility right then and there. I think you're confused about the meaning of the term casual.
    rolleyes.gif


    Casual gamers. Please watch the video before commenting. :wink:

  • smeeprocketnub19_ESO
    smeeprocketnub19_ESO
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    Pallmor wrote: »
    Who's this "us" you're talking about, buddy? I've been playing Elder Scrolls since Morrowind and I like ESO just fine.


    People who can see through the plastic experience they have created for casual gamers. If you enjoy ESO; you just love mmo's and the experience of new trending mmo's or, your a casual. You must've been young when playing morrowind cause if you don't see the difference in depth of interaction.
    This is an MMO not a stand alone sandbox TES game. That colors the entire implementation and gameplay...to some great degree.

    There will be a TESVI and hopefully it will be Skyrim+. At least that too will make me happy.

    I know this is an MMO game but, I want the most attention from Bethesda and I would assume they pay attention to this forum more than any other ;)

    Well, they might if they were the company that made ESO, but that is not the case...
    Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.
  • BBSooner
    BBSooner
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    Old video (if its the one dissecting the design choices of skyrim). I agree with the sentiment. I don't agree with the categorization of 'if you like ESO then you must be casual' that you displayed in your replies. No true Scotsman, all that.
  • Carnagan
    Carnagan
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    Yay... Gamer elitism confusing streamlining with dumbing down. This argument never gets old...

    There's a difference between dumbing down and streamlining. Dumbing down takes something interesting and complex and makes it simplistic and boring. Streamlining removes unnecessarily complex systems and makes things work smoother and provide more options.

    Morrowind, for example, dumbed down Daggerfall's combat system. It took a mouse based attack mode where your actions altered your speed/chance to hit/damage potential into a game where you just smacked the use button as quickly as possible and let a random dice generator decide if each press was a hit or not.

    Oblivion streamlined Morrwind's combat by removing the random number generator, making combat flow.

    Morrowind dumbed down the character customization from Daggerfall, taking out the ability to balance out different advantages and disadvantages and how your stats could lean when rolled and how fast you would level and replaced it with... the birthsigns.

    Skyrim streamlined Oblivion's character customization by having you balance three attributes but opening up a tons of customization tied to your skills and abilities.

    *Note: I classify all of this as evolving, not dumbing down. But if people insist on using those words, let's be honest about what they mean. Because if were using those words we're faced with the fact that Morrowind was the start of the series decline.

    ESO is trying a different system. Is it better or worse than what came before? Couldn't say. It's different and keeps the core concept behind progression in the series intact.

    The lore is unquestionable Elder Scrolls too. There are no serious lore breaks and those that are there either aren't actually there, such as with the Cyrodiil Jungle, or are no worse than what other games have done, such as Morrowind ignoring that the Dunmer (not Chimer) were ruled by the Nords over 200 years before the Tribunal appeared.
    Edited by Carnagan on August 27, 2014 9:53PM
    "You dream of the Moon and a man who is less than a man."
    Proud explorer of Tamriel since 1996
  • Crumpy
    Crumpy
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    I'm a casual and I don't like it if that helps at all?
    I lyke not this quill.
  • Tapio75
    Tapio75
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    Well, they might if they were the company that made ESO, but that is not the case...

    I can not believe how many really believe this :D The company IS different and at least some of the team doing it is different as well but there should be no mistake, that ZOS was created to keep Zenimax and Bethesda safe and separate from the possibility that something goes wrong and company goes kaput.

    >>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<
  • Resueht
    Resueht
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    Tapio75 wrote: »
    Well, they might if they were the company that made ESO, but that is not the case...

    ...that ZOS was created to keep Zenimax and Bethesda safe and separate from the possibility that something goes wrong and company goes kaput.

    Or, you know, to have a dedicated team for ESO.
    If she doesn't know the pain of cliffracers, she's too young for you.
  • smeeprocketnub19_ESO
    smeeprocketnub19_ESO
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    Tapio75 wrote: »
    Well, they might if they were the company that made ESO, but that is not the case...

    I can not believe how many really believe this :D The company IS different and at least some of the team doing it is different as well but there should be no mistake, that ZOS was created to keep Zenimax and Bethesda safe and separate from the possibility that something goes wrong and company goes kaput.

    you're right, it's a conspiracy.


    Ooor Bethesda is not a company that makes MMOs.

    ZOS AND Bethesda are both under Zenimax Media. They are both subsidiaries. It has nothing to do with safety. TES is tied to Bethesda enough that if the game were criminally bad, it would reflect on the TES series regardless.

    From what I can gather (and I haven't looked into this enough to be sure) ZOS may have been created just to handle any online games like ESO or any other ones in the future.

    Making an MMO is very different from making a single player game. As we have seen, ZOS is pretty new at it, as well.

    If Zenimax itself went under, then THAT would be a problem.
    Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.
  • SirAndy
    SirAndy
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    SirAndy wrote: »
    ... I understand feeding the casuals ...
    Sorry, but you lost all credibility right then and there. I think you're confused about the meaning of the term casual.
    rolleyes.gif
    Casual gamers. Please watch the video before commenting. :wink:
    Watched it before i commented above.

    Again, i think you're confused about the meaning of the term casual gamers.
    ;-)
  • tplink3r1
    tplink3r1
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    SirAndy wrote: »
    SirAndy wrote: »
    ... I understand feeding the casuals ...
    Sorry, but you lost all credibility right then and there. I think you're confused about the meaning of the term casual.
    rolleyes.gif
    Casual gamers. Please watch the video before commenting. :wink:
    Watched it before i commented above.

    Again, i think you're confused about the meaning of the term casual gamers.
    ;-)

    but the video is from 2012...
    Edited by ZOS_JoanaL on August 27, 2014 11:21PM
    VR16 Templar
    VR3 Sorcerer
  • xChewtoyx
    xChewtoyx
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    That video is almost 2 years old.
    Edited by xChewtoyx on August 27, 2014 10:38PM
  • xChewtoyx
    xChewtoyx
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    SirAndy wrote: »
    SirAndy wrote: »
    ... I understand feeding the casuals ...
    Sorry, but you lost all credibility right then and there. I think you're confused about the meaning of the term casual.
    rolleyes.gif
    Casual gamers. Please watch the video before commenting. :wink:
    Watched it before i commented above.

    Again, i think you're confused about the meaning of the term casual gamers.
    ;-)


    All those versions of games you like would not exist if it was not for casual gamers.
    Edited by ZOS_JoanaL on August 27, 2014 11:21PM
  • Ser Lobo
    Ser Lobo
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    I remember how awesome it was to work really hard and do something fantastic in a video game. How hard they could be. How often I died. How much I sweat and toiled for that completion.

    But I'll be honest: my priorities have shifted. I go back and play them, and it ruins the moment. Morrowind was absolutely amazing, but when I go back now my stomach turns. The mechanics are horrid. The combat system was extremely busted. From auto-swimming to get my athletics up, to auto-sneaking behind the guards in the tower. I killed an old lady to get her house because I needed a place to store ten tons of junk, and made approximately 1 million trips from each dungeon back to that house because of the weight limit.

    Rose-tinted glasses. Recently went back and played an emulator of a game I loved till it was closed. It was such crap, but I couldn't blame the emulator. That was the game.

    Gaming has evolved, streamlined, and developed so much over the last two decades that there's really no way to look back with open eyes. Sure, 8-bit games can still be fun, but we expect far more responsiveness from that controller than that cartridge could give us. We have higher expectations on graphic fidelity and mechanics.

    Rose-tinted glasses. Realize where you were in your life (probably unmarried, partying on weekdays, drunk as a skunk with no real responsibilities). Realize who you were with (new experiences with some of the dumbest people, including all the drama and crying and breakups). Realize what you were doing (learning how to make all 12 fingers do what you want when you want, and feeling accomplished when you learned that exploit or cheat). And realize what you have become (jaded, a gamer who lived through some of the worst times, to feel so good during good times).



    It's like I tell my dad, when he explains how he and his best friend would wander off to the river for weeks at a time when they were 12-14 years old. Talking about water towers climbed and near death experiences. How great it all was.

    I say, "Dad, that's not great. That's stupid. AND bad parenting."

    In hindsight, he obviously agreed with me. Cause while I was being 'raised', he never let me stay out past the street light, never let me go out with friends for more than a few hours, and the one time the cops brought me home I was grounded through two years of school.

    There was a time when I road in the front seat of the pickup truck with no seatbelt, stepdad smoking up the car with a beer in his hand, me eating a twinkie and listening to Willie Nelson sing about getting high and arrested. And it wasn't illegal.

    Past doesn't make perfect.
    Edited by Ser Lobo on August 27, 2014 10:47PM
    Ruze Aulus. Mayor of Dhalmora. Archer, hunter, assassin. Nightblade.
    Gral. Mountain Terror. Barbarian, marauder, murderer. Nightblade.
    Na'Djin. Knight-Blade. Knight, vanguard, defender. Nightblade.

    XBOX NA
    Ruze is a veteran of the PC Beta, lived through the year one drought, survived the buy-to-play conversion, and has stepped foot in the hells known as Craglorn. He mained a nightlbade when nightblades weren't good, and has never worn a robe. He converted from PC during the console betas, and hasn't regretted it a moment since.

    He'd rank ESO:TU (in it's current state) a 4.8 out of 5, loving the game almost entirely.

    This is an multiplayer game. I should be able to log in, join a dungeon, join a battleground, queue for a dolmen or world boss or delve, teleport in, play for 20 minutes, and not worry about getting kicked, failing to join, having perfect voice coms, or being unable to complete content because someone's lagging behind. Group Finder and matchmaking is broken. Take a note from Destiny and build a system that allows from drop-in/drop-out functionality and quick play.
  • epoling
    epoling
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    You have to buy into the guy in the video's very personal opinions and elitism as a starting point. If you don't accept them you can just enjoy this (and the previous games) for what they are - fun and interesting games.
  • c0rp
    c0rp
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    What does a 2 year old video pertaining to single player TES have to do with ESO?
    Edited by c0rp on August 27, 2014 10:57PM
    Force weapon swap to have priority over EVERYTHING. Close enough.
    Make stamina builds even with magicka builds.
    Disable abilities while holding block.
    Give us a REASON to do dungeons more than once.
    Remove PVP AoE CAP. It is ruining Cyrodiil.
    Fix/Remove Forward Camps. They are ruining Cyrodiil.
    Impenetrability needs to REDUCE CRIT DAMAGE. Not negate entire builds.
    Werewolf is not equal to Vamps/Bats.
  • Ser Lobo
    Ser Lobo
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    c0rp wrote: »
    What does a 2 year old video pertaining to single player TES have to do with ESO?

    That on the internet, nothing ever really dies?
    Ruze Aulus. Mayor of Dhalmora. Archer, hunter, assassin. Nightblade.
    Gral. Mountain Terror. Barbarian, marauder, murderer. Nightblade.
    Na'Djin. Knight-Blade. Knight, vanguard, defender. Nightblade.

    XBOX NA
    Ruze is a veteran of the PC Beta, lived through the year one drought, survived the buy-to-play conversion, and has stepped foot in the hells known as Craglorn. He mained a nightlbade when nightblades weren't good, and has never worn a robe. He converted from PC during the console betas, and hasn't regretted it a moment since.

    He'd rank ESO:TU (in it's current state) a 4.8 out of 5, loving the game almost entirely.

    This is an multiplayer game. I should be able to log in, join a dungeon, join a battleground, queue for a dolmen or world boss or delve, teleport in, play for 20 minutes, and not worry about getting kicked, failing to join, having perfect voice coms, or being unable to complete content because someone's lagging behind. Group Finder and matchmaking is broken. Take a note from Destiny and build a system that allows from drop-in/drop-out functionality and quick play.
  • BumboklatMon
    c0rp wrote: »
    What does a 2 year old video pertaining to single player TES have to do with ESO?

    because it's the direction that has been talked about since oblivion. yet maybe new to few. watch the whole video and find out.. -__- It continues to dumb down through the series.
  • smeeprocketnub19_ESO
    smeeprocketnub19_ESO
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    Hmm, your posting, so you still have paid time left, joke's on you.

    As someone who plays for like 12-16 hours a day, may I be the first hardcore gamer to ask you to gtfo and stop insulting casual players.

    I can only assume this stems from some sort of jealousy at these people having actual lives to fall back on. Just like how some casuals get jealous that hardcore players are able to get more out of the game.

    Personally, I wish I had a life on the outside or at least a really kickass job that gave me the kind of schedule that would allow me to play as I do and still make a livable wage.
    Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.
  • Psychobunni
    Psychobunni
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    I watched the entire video and feel pretty depressed about the TES future now, thanks OP :(

    I came to TES with Oblivion and fell in love, rolled back to Morrowind and hated Skyrim so much I quit before ever even finishing it. Granted I bought Skyrim hot off the press (console) so the bugs that were there, I ran into every. single. one. (past history QQ there)

    As this video may pertain to ESO?? I bet that guy had a seriously angry rage fest playing here. But there is a bright side!!! There are no pandas or glorified peacock mounts, or whatever else appeals to 10 year olds....so all hope is not lost :D
    If options weren't necessary, and everyone played the same way, no one would use addons. Fix the UI!

  • JessieColt
    JessieColt
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    I came to the TES franchise from Skyrim. I have over 1000 hours in that game. Both vanilla and modded.

    There is a larger range of players than Hardcore and Casual.

    I am no where near a casual player. But at the same time, I am not someone who is hardcore with a stick up my butt when there is a typo, or an error, or a book is available out of timeline.

    The lore is cool, the world is vast and open. The challenges keep me alert. The stories are interesting.

    Games have to try to appeal to all types of gamers, from the elite, hardcore players, to the 10 hours a month or less casuals.

    TES:O is Zenimax/Bethesda's answer to people who wanted the TES world that could be played with friends.

    Personally, I think they did a pretty good job. They moved it out of the timeline of the single player TES games to ensure that nothing interferes with that ongoing franchise arm of the game.

    They incorporated enough of TES into the TES:O environment to ensure that your adventures are still linked to that Universe.

    But make no mistake, TES:O is separate from TES. Game mechanics, requirements of an online environments versus and offline one, the timeline, etc.

    As a mid-level player (someone with enough time to play as many or as few hours as I wish, but not an elite, hardcore spazz, but only because I have a job, and I have a life, and I do not live for "OMGZ leet stuffs. I must has") it saddens me in a lot of ways to see threads like this.

    The world has changed, and evolved, and moved on. Living in the "good ole days" of crap graphics, buggy controls, and walled off games is long gone. It is no longer necessary to dedicate hours and hours a day learning how to play a game, and grinding out half the hours in a month just to get half way decent gear, or other goodies, as a way to show off to your buddies that you have, as someone else above said, no outside life.

    Those who continue to insist on living in the past will find themselves stuck there as the world moves on from them. And threads like this will continue to pop up, on every game, from players who are stuck in the past, and begrudge game companies, and gamers, for not toeing their perceived elite line that has died and is long buried, but they are too stuck in the past to see, or understand.

    If your life resolves around how bad a typo is in a virtual reality book, in a universe that exists only in 1's and 0's, on a system that with the loss of power could be gone forever, please take some time to step outside of the virtual world and take a good look around the real one.

    The one full of real wars, and real death, and real starvation, and real social issues.

  • OrangeTheCat
    OrangeTheCat
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    I enjoyed that video. Long, but worth it. And I so agree. Thank you.
  • SavageHenry
    SavageHenry
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    as a counter balance to the video posted

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEI4yS7sFEw
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