Templars...how to survive Lethal Arrow an Ambush

MrHemlocks

Happens all the time. Ambush 1,700+ damage and Lethal Arrow 1,700+ damage! Are there any way a Templar can survive these attacks? Are there any skills or passives best suited to enable survival? Seems like Templars are jack of all trades but master of NOTHING. Hence we lack in PvP survivability.

Must be a way to survive these attacks...

Syndy

Radiant magelight + Breath of life/Honor the dead

Hit blinding flashes, if he tries to jump on ambush you now he is not going to have a good time. I have had quite a few rage tells from players calling me a cheater due to using blinding flashes.

NorthernFury

Templars are one of the harder classes to bring down in pvp, actually.

Nox_Aeterna

NorthernFury wrote: »

Templars are one of the harder classes to bring down in pvp, actually.

Nah , deppends , the NB running around inv (and now at light speed in stealth), the sorcs blinking over the hills and far away , the DKs using scales + green dragons blood...

In the end , if you dont CC the guy , any class can be a bother to kill.

Erock25

MrHemlocks wrote: »

Seems like Templars are jack of all trades but master of NOTHING. Hence we lack in PvP survivability.

Wait, what? Did you just? I mean come on. Don't even ... no... really? You gotta be .... are you for real? No way.

eliisra

Always run around with stacked damage absorbing shields up. Always purge NB marks and be ready to block. That way you wont die from the initial attack or they wont attack you at all.

Also remember to cleanse/purge after Lethal arrow, so you can heal back up.

Sometimes the burst from bow sneak attacks is so high that you're dead by the time you manage break the cc. You just die without being able to use a single skill. That's why the only counter is being prepared for it to happen 24/7 (sadly doesn't work when you're mounted).

After bow users blow their sneak bonus is pretty easy to survive as a templar. Not that many will stick around to 1v1 a templar anyway. It's a never ending fight.

Surviving bow sneak attacks is he same for all classes really. Templar is no weaker than anyone else in this scenario. DK's Reflective scales doesn't work against bows. They get really messed up by Snipe + morphs. Sorcerers can blink to get out of bow range, but often die before that happens.

Strakand

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

NorthernFury wrote: »

Templars are one of the harder classes to bring down in pvp, actually.

Nah , deppends , the NB running around inv (and now at light speed in stealth), the sorcs blinking over the hills and far away , the DKs using scales + green dragons blood...

In the end , if you dont CC the guy , any class can be a bother to kill.

While I agree with your statement, I would say that templars are the toughest to kill in general. Escaping combat like a sorc or nb is rather annoying, but the time to get them to run is usually rather short. DKs reflective+green dragon blood keep them up for a while, but not anywhere close to a blazing shield self healing templar.

Blazing shield is a low cost invulnerability button, it is insane.

Syndy

eliisra wrote: »

Always run around with stacked damage absorbing shields up. Always purge NB marks and be ready to block. That way you wont die from the initial attack or they wont attack you at all.

Also remember to cleanse/purge after Lethal arrow, so you can heal back up.

Sometimes the burst from bow sneak attacks is so high that you're dead by the time you manage break the cc. You just die without being able to use a single skill. That's why the only counter is being prepared for it to happen 24/7 (sadly doesn't work when you're mounted).

After bow users blow their sneak bonus is pretty easy to survive as a templar. Not that many will stick around to 1v1 a templar anyway. It's a never ending fight.

Surviving bow sneak attacks is he same for all classes really. Templar is no weaker than anyone else in this scenario. DK's Reflective scales doesn't work against bows. They get really messed up by Snipe + morphs. Sorcerers can blink to get out of bow range, but often die before that happens.

DK's Scales does work against snipe. Also, as I have previously stated, Radiant magelight will help immensely... The problem is everyone always morphs Magelight to inner light for more crit.

Just a Tip, if you are built like a glass cannon, expect to die like one.

hasselhoffman

MrHemlocks wrote: »

Happens all the time. Ambush 1,700+ damage and Lethal Arrow 1,700+ damage! Are there any way a Templar can survive these attacks? Are there any skills or passives best suited to enable survival? Seems like Templars are jack of all trades but master of NOTHING. Hence we lack in PvP survivability.

Must be a way to survive these attacks...

As a nightblade your class is one of the hardest to kill and normally a templar that knows how to play his class well normally gets me 1v1. So yes, we have to gank you as hard as we can initially. Stand up fight though I'd say 8 out of 10 you're going to defeat a nightblade. NB class revolves around cheap shotting, lol isn't that the stereotypical rogue character though?

Crowzer

1700 from Ambush ? Could you explain ?

hasselhoffman

I've seen VR5 templars steam roll some pretty decent VR12 players.

hasselhoffman

I've never been able to crit that high for ambush or lethal arrow.

Jaxom

Crowzer wrote: »

1700 from Ambush ? Could you explain ?

That's middle of the road. When I was specced for Magicka, my Ambush would hit for 2000-2200. Stack Spell damage and specific NB passives. It's pretty easy to hit those numbers. Toss in Restro Staff and Combat Prayer, I've gotten Ambush hits north of 3k from stealth when the stars align.

IcyDeadPeople

When someone tries to snipe you, there is an audio cue you can hear a few seconds before the ability triggers. You have plenty of time to start blocking or activate a damage shield.

There is an audio cue for ambush as well, but it is a little faster. As others suggested, blinding flashes and blazing shield are great for dealing with close quarters melee attackers.

SVKFrankenstein

Dont worry everyone ! In patch 1.4 everything is going to be allright . They are going to boost Lethal Arrow ! We can ... ... ... WAIT WHAT ? We are all going to DIEEEEEEE !

eventide03b14a_ESO

Templars are uniquely suited to counter Nightblades. You guys have a built in cure that anyone else has to take from a non class line. If you get rid of our mark and cure our dots we have a really hard time taking you down. You're losing because we are getting the drop on you.

Orchish

Wear heavy armour instead of a dress. Yeah i actually did just suggest heavy armour. Perhaps i should go lay down.

Thejollygreenone

Jaxom wrote: »

Crowzer wrote: »

1700 from Ambush ? Could you explain ?

That's middle of the road. When I was specced for Magicka, my Ambush would hit for 2000-2200. Stack Spell damage and specific NB passives. It's pretty easy to hit those numbers. Toss in Restro Staff and Combat Prayer, I've gotten Ambush hits north of 3k from stealth when the stars align.

The values you're listing are (afaik) just about impossible to achieve in PvP. Enemy monsters take extra damage from melee sneak attacks, so in PvE ambush may hit for 1700-2200 from stealth, that makes perfect sense.

But in PvP I've never even seen ambush crit for more than 1.5k from myself nor an enemy. If you are indeed mixing PvE and PvP numbers, please try to present relevant information, this is a discussion about PvP so try to keep information related to PvP.

Unless you're saying you've crit for 2k with ambush from stealth on an enemy player, in which case I must ask for a screenshot or I really can't believe it ever happened.

Mjollo

Just one skill is needed to deflect any nb initial strike of insane damage: Annulment. nuff said. In my experience, Templars are the hardest class to solo because of all the heals and spell absorption they get from casting so many defensive spells. The only way to kill one fast enough is to catch him off-guard when they have no protection active.

Bushrat

By rights the NB character should be able to bring down most players in ambush, because we will lose most fights if we don't get the drop on somebody. As NB stealth hunter, Templars are to be avoided unless I think I can take him down in under 3 seconds, any time more than that and I am looking to escape. Any time more than 5 seconds with any player and I am looking to escape. I have done more than 1700 damage with certain combinations but I am not going to tell how to counter them hehe, that would be counter productive for me.

NorthernFury

Defialed wrote: »

Just one skill is needed to deflect any nb initial strike of insane damage: Annulment. nuff said. In my experience, Templars are the hardest class to solo because of all the heals and spell absorption they get from casting so many defensive spells. The only way to kill one fast enough is to catch him off-guard when they have no protection active.

That, or catch him with a Negate and burn burn burn before he realizes it...

Jaxom

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Jaxom wrote: »

Crowzer wrote: »

1700 from Ambush ? Could you explain ?

That's middle of the road. When I was specced for Magicka, my Ambush would hit for 2000-2200. Stack Spell damage and specific NB passives. It's pretty easy to hit those numbers. Toss in Restro Staff and Combat Prayer, I've gotten Ambush hits north of 3k from stealth when the stars align.

The values you're listing are (afaik) just about impossible to achieve in PvP. Enemy monsters take extra damage from melee sneak attacks, so in PvE ambush may hit for 1700-2200 from stealth, that makes perfect sense.

But in PvP I've never even seen ambush crit for more than 1.5k from myself nor an enemy. If you are indeed mixing PvE and PvP numbers, please try to present relevant information, this is a discussion about PvP so try to keep information related to PvP.

Unless you're saying you've crit for 2k with ambush from stealth on an enemy player, in which case I must ask for a screenshot or I really can't believe it ever happened.

I dont have a screenshot as I was doing this pre 1.2 when I was in a magicka build. Though, that was during a time before everyone was stacking Impen so the numbers are probably inflated a bit. I was referring to PvP and I assure you I'm not exaggerating. In PvE, my Ambush was hitting upwards to 3k.

Luvsfuzzybunnies

Syndy wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

Always run around with stacked damage absorbing shields up. Always purge NB marks and be ready to block. That way you wont die from the initial attack or they wont attack you at all.

Also remember to cleanse/purge after Lethal arrow, so you can heal back up.

Sometimes the burst from bow sneak attacks is so high that you're dead by the time you manage break the cc. You just die without being able to use a single skill. That's why the only counter is being prepared for it to happen 24/7 (sadly doesn't work when you're mounted).

After bow users blow their sneak bonus is pretty easy to survive as a templar. Not that many will stick around to 1v1 a templar anyway. It's a never ending fight.

Surviving bow sneak attacks is he same for all classes really. Templar is no weaker than anyone else in this scenario. DK's Reflective scales doesn't work against bows. They get really messed up by Snipe + morphs. Sorcerers can blink to get out of bow range, but often die before that happens.

DK's Scales does work against snipe. Also, as I have previously stated, Radiant magelight will help immensely... The problem is everyone always morphs Magelight to inner light for more crit.

Just a Tip, if you are built like a glass cannon, expect to die like one.

Logic is hard bro don't go there.

Mjollo

@Thejollygreenone These numbers are not impossible. The average Nightblade hits with Ambush for 1800 damage for the initial strike (on a unsuspecting target with no annulment). If you have the morph Shadowy Disguise before striking, it allows a guarantee critical hit for 2200 damage (Initial strike only for that kind of damage). I use Shadowy disguise with concealed weapon hitting 2500 on my first strike. That's why Nightblades first strike it important. If they mess this up, they might as well run since they probably won't have enough time to burst down the rest of the enemies health.

Domander

eliisra wrote: »

Always run around with stacked damage absorbing shields up. Always purge NB marks and be ready to block. That way you wont die from the initial attack or they wont attack you at all.

Also remember to cleanse/purge after Lethal arrow, so you can heal back up.

Sometimes the burst from bow sneak attacks is so high that you're dead by the time you manage break the cc. You just die without being able to use a single skill. That's why the only counter is being prepared for it to happen 24/7 (sadly doesn't work when you're mounted).

After bow users blow their sneak bonus is pretty easy to survive as a templar. Not that many will stick around to 1v1 a templar anyway. It's a never ending fight.

Surviving bow sneak attacks is he same for all classes really. Templar is no weaker than anyone else in this scenario. DK's Reflective scales doesn't work against bows. They get really messed up by Snipe + morphs. Sorcerers can blink to get out of bow range, but often die before that happens.

um, yes, reflective scales does reflect arrows. It reflects all projectiles.

Luvsfuzzybunnies

@defialed this is what your tool.tip reads? 1800 damage? I'd be suprised. If you would kindly provide a screen shot i would be much obliged.

@mrhemlocks Many conditions need to be met to achieve such high numbers including(usually) but not limited to being khajit or bosmer. Attacking from stealth. Attacking from behind while in stealth as this provides a higher multiplier than a front attack. Stacking spell damage/using a resto staff. Using the crit damage increasing mind us stone or the spell pen one. Wearing light armor. The target having low spell resist and health. The target not using defensive abilities. Most importantly getting a crit. If all the stars align in the proper order and you give me your back better believe I will one or two hit you.

Edit: hopefully all of this info is helpful to you. Since knowing is half the battle.

Mjollo

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

@defialed this is what your tool.tip reads? 1800 damage? I'd be suprised. If you would kindly provide a screen shot i would be much obliged.

Absolutely. I'll post some screenshots of my damage when I get home as I am currently at work. You can expect them sometime around 7:30ish EST

Thejollygreenone

Defialed wrote: »

@Thejollygreenone These numbers are not impossible. The average Nightblade hits with Ambush for 1800 damage for the initial strike (on a unsuspecting target with no annulment). If you have the morph Shadowy Disguise before striking, it allows a guarantee critical hit for 2200 damage (Initial strike only for that kind of damage). I use Shadowy disguise with concealed weapon hitting 2500 on my first strike. That's why Nightblades first strike it important. If they mess this up, they might as well run since they probably won't have enough time to burst down the rest of the enemies health.

Again, near positive you're talking PvE numbers and not PvP numbers. My argument was that it's an outrageous number for PvP where the from stealth bonus is greatly reduced.

Also, if you're already stealth (for the initial strike) you don't need shadowy disguise. It would be a crit anyway. And I'm a NB so I know full well the importance of our burst. I'm just arguing that these types of numbers aren't normal in PvP. Maybe impossible was a bit of a rash statement But quite improbable, imo, if not impossible.

Jaxom wrote: »

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Jaxom wrote: »

Crowzer wrote: »

1700 from Ambush ? Could you explain ?

That's middle of the road. When I was specced for Magicka, my Ambush would hit for 2000-2200. Stack Spell damage and specific NB passives. It's pretty easy to hit those numbers. Toss in Restro Staff and Combat Prayer, I've gotten Ambush hits north of 3k from stealth when the stars align.

The values you're listing are (afaik) just about impossible to achieve in PvP. Enemy monsters take extra damage from melee sneak attacks, so in PvE ambush may hit for 1700-2200 from stealth, that makes perfect sense.

But in PvP I've never even seen ambush crit for more than 1.5k from myself nor an enemy. If you are indeed mixing PvE and PvP numbers, please try to present relevant information, this is a discussion about PvP so try to keep information related to PvP.

Unless you're saying you've crit for 2k with ambush from stealth on an enemy player, in which case I must ask for a screenshot or I really can't believe it ever happened.

I dont have a screenshot as I was doing this pre 1.2 when I was in a magicka build. Though, that was during a time before everyone was stacking Impen so the numbers are probably inflated a bit. I was referring to PvP and I assure you I'm not exaggerating. In PvE, my Ambush was hitting upwards to 3k.

Just wanted to make sure, I've come across too many people who didn't know there was a difference. Considering this was done towards the beginning of the game, I'm a little less skeptical now, thanks for clarifying.

Regardless, the numbers your giving still seem a bit too high, even vr12s with no impen shouldn't be crit for 2000 from stealth. I've never seen or even heard of numbers like that happening legitimately (i.e.non-bugged).

As a PvPer who foolishly neglects impenetrable in favor of a glass cannon build myself, I can say I've never noticed myself being hit for close to any of the values you've mentioned, unless marked, in which case I still see much lower numbers than what you've described as possible and even go so far as to imply frequency of. So forgive me if a bit of skepticism remains.

If you really want to convince me/any others who may share my opinion, go out into the field and get yourself a 2k ambush crit on screenshot. A death recap would probably server the purpose as well. Until I see it done, I will remain with a level of skepticism.

Jaxom

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Defialed wrote: »

@Thejollygreenone These numbers are not impossible. The average Nightblade hits with Ambush for 1800 damage for the initial strike (on a unsuspecting target with no annulment). If you have the morph Shadowy Disguise before striking, it allows a guarantee critical hit for 2200 damage (Initial strike only for that kind of damage). I use Shadowy disguise with concealed weapon hitting 2500 on my first strike. That's why Nightblades first strike it important. If they mess this up, they might as well run since they probably won't have enough time to burst down the rest of the enemies health.

Again, near positive you're talking PvE numbers and not PvP numbers. My argument was that it's an outrageous number for PvP where the from stealth bonus is greatly reduced.

Also, if you're already stealth (for the initial strike) you don't need shadowy disguise. It would be a crit anyway. And I'm a NB so I know full well the importance of our burst. I'm just arguing that these types of numbers aren't normal in PvP. Maybe impossible was a bit of a rash statement But quite improbable, imo, if not impossible.

Jaxom wrote: »

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Jaxom wrote: »

Crowzer wrote: »

1700 from Ambush ? Could you explain ?

That's middle of the road. When I was specced for Magicka, my Ambush would hit for 2000-2200. Stack Spell damage and specific NB passives. It's pretty easy to hit those numbers. Toss in Restro Staff and Combat Prayer, I've gotten Ambush hits north of 3k from stealth when the stars align.

The values you're listing are (afaik) just about impossible to achieve in PvP. Enemy monsters take extra damage from melee sneak attacks, so in PvE ambush may hit for 1700-2200 from stealth, that makes perfect sense.

But in PvP I've never even seen ambush crit for more than 1.5k from myself nor an enemy. If you are indeed mixing PvE and PvP numbers, please try to present relevant information, this is a discussion about PvP so try to keep information related to PvP.

Unless you're saying you've crit for 2k with ambush from stealth on an enemy player, in which case I must ask for a screenshot or I really can't believe it ever happened.

I dont have a screenshot as I was doing this pre 1.2 when I was in a magicka build. Though, that was during a time before everyone was stacking Impen so the numbers are probably inflated a bit. I was referring to PvP and I assure you I'm not exaggerating. In PvE, my Ambush was hitting upwards to 3k.

Just wanted to make sure, I've come across too many people who didn't know there was a difference. Considering this was done towards the beginning of the game, I'm a little less skeptical now, thanks for clarifying.

Regardless, the numbers your giving still seem a bit too high, even vr12s with no impen shouldn't be crit for 2000 from stealth. I've never seen or even heard of numbers like that happening legitimately (i.e.non-bugged).

As a PvPer who foolishly neglects impenetrable in favor of a glass cannon build myself, I can say I've never noticed myself being hit for close to any of the values you've mentioned, unless marked, in which case I still see much lower numbers than what you've described as possible and even go so far as to imply frequency of. So forgive me if a bit of skepticism remains.

If you really want to convince me/any others who may share my opinion, go out into the field and get yourself a 2k ambush crit on screenshot. A death recap would probably server the purpose as well. Until I see it done, I will remain with a level of skepticism.

Fair enough. Unless I specced back into Magicka, I wouldn't be able to prove myself. I run a Lethal Arrow Stamina spec now. The numbers are high, but my spec was built specifically around it. Especially with the change to the shadow passive where spell damage is increased by 10%, my Spell Damage was 152 (in stealth with all my passives, Resto Staff ect) and Magicka was in the 2100-2200 range (this was pre soft cap change). I had a guildie asking how it was hitting so hard as well. It was a one trick pony but you could basically, Ambush, Concealed Weapon, Impale, dead.

sinz_xb16_ESO

I've never hit higher than 1.4k with Ambush on unsuspecting targets. And that's running the Stygian set, which puts my magicka at 2550 and spell dmg around 150 for the initial sneak attack.

Mjollo

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

-Snip-

I should probably just disregard all of my kills since the game came out then. I PvP as well 80% of the time I play. When I talk about damage I almost always refer to PvP. If you're not hitting 1800 with ambush or 2400-2500 with concealed weapon, then i hate tell you, you're doing it wrong or something is off. I can literally 3-hit most people in PvP if they are caught off-guard.