ESO @ QuakeCon and the future of stamina builds

Cydone

After watching the entirety of the "Future of ESO" panel presentation and discussion I was wondering when these stamina builds are going to become more viable? With keeping the sprint/dodge/roll mechanism tied to the stamina bar, instead of having it's own bar, stamina builds are hindered far more than magicka builds. I would HOPE that they would move the sprint/dodge/roll mechanism to it's own bar that MAYBE you could invest some points into, but as it stands(and as the panel addressed), stamina builds are FAR less viable than magicka builds.

And the ranged options for stamina builds is ONLY bow and arrow. But, being COMPLETELY reliant on stamina, bow suffers from the same dilemma. Being vastly underpowered vs magicka based Restro and Destro staff builds. Anyone that knows anything really knows that you can get more DPS out of a Restro staff than you can with a bow or even a Destro staff lol.

Point being is this, not a lot of people in beta knew about the DPS capability of the Restro staff, so most went with the Bow, which at the time had GREAT DPS potential. Since a huge number of the population was using bow and it being the best known ranged DPS option during beta, people started to complain about it. Thus, it was nerfed to being the 3rd dps option for ranged.

Now, with the stamina builds being looked at once again, I would LOVE to see them look at a comparison of the DPS of Bow vs Restro/Destro/Magicka builds and bump up the damage capability of bows once more. Maybe not to the level it was during beta, but it DEFINITELY needs to be looked at.

moxiesauce

Yes! Bow damage needs to be addressed and it's damage increased.

Same goes for 2 handers and DW, this is a game of mages, straight up.

Cydone

Yes! Both Bow and Sprint/Dodge/Roll need to be looked at.

moxiesauce wrote: »

Same goes for 2 handers and DW, this is a game of mages, straight up.

While I agree, 2H and dual wield still do more straight up damage than bow does because of the nerf bow received in beta.

moxiesauce

Yes! Bow damage needs to be addressed and it's damage increased.

Cydone wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

Same goes for 2 handers and DW, this is a game of mages, straight up.

While I agree, 2H and dual wield still do more straight up damage than bow does because of the nerf bow received in beta.

Are you sure? it's possible they do more aoe... but single target spamming snipe on a boss will out dps both.

Cydone

Yes! Both Bow and Sprint/Dodge/Roll need to be looked at.

moxiesauce wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

moxiesauce wrote: »

Same goes for 2 handers and DW, this is a game of mages, straight up.

While I agree, 2H and dual wield still do more straight up damage than bow does because of the nerf bow received in beta.

Are you sure? it's possible they do more aoe... but single target spamming snipe on a boss will out dps both.

Thing is, when solo grinding a character, you can't spam snipe on most bosses because either they are melee or have a magicka based gap closer. And you have to be at least 10m away from the target to use snipe. Even with the magnum shot that puts 12m between you and the target, they still close that 10m gap faster than you can get another snipe off most times. I would MUCH rather have a cooldown on snipe, making it instant cast, than having a cast timer. Would make it MUCH more useful in pvp with the kiting and LOS players use. Having it instant cast with like a 10sec cooldown would make it balanced, IMO.

And, lets be honest, when solo grinding, AOE damage is what wins fights. Unless you're a DK and can tank the NPC's which are almost always in groups of 3.

Fi'yra

Yes! Both Bow and Sprint/Dodge/Roll need to be looked at.

Er, where's the option for Sprint/Roll?
Only thing that needs to be looked at, as Stamina's build can't do as much damage because of this!

Cydone

Yes! Both Bow and Sprint/Dodge/Roll need to be looked at.

BenS1337 wrote: »

Er, where's the option for Sprint/Roll?
Only thing that needs to be looked at, as Stamina's build can't do as much damage because of this!

Sorry, forgot to add in an option just for that. And even without sprint/roll being tied to stamina, the damage done by most stamina based abilities aren't even close to being balanced to that of magicka based builds......the panel at QuakeCon even addressed that as being so.

david.haypreub18_ESO

No real vote from me, as I feel that the best option would be to nerf Resto staff... it is just so much superior to other weapons. That is the real problem.

aipex8_ESO

Yes! Bow damage needs to be addressed and it's damage increased.

If you're a properly spec'd stamina build, running out of stamina (even when using it for dodge/block/break free) should not happen often. About 80% of my attacks are weapon attacks, only using magicka attacks for opening and sometimes executing, and I rarely run dry on stamina. Prior to 1.2.3 I had to rely on Invigorating Drain to refill stamina a lot, now I rarely use it and when I do it's for health, not stamina.

I don't think that adding a 4th resource is a good idea as it just confuses things. Really it would just be a second stamina pool used only for defense. Most likely you aren't going to be rolling so often as to drain it, so you might as well just not add the bar and make defense abilities free. And if you sprint for 30 seconds to get to a fight, you SHOULD be out of stamina!

Bow needs some love though. I started out as DW/Bow, but bow just never seemed like it was effective enough so I ended up DW/DW (single target/AOE) which I like much better.

Cydone

Yes! Both Bow and Sprint/Dodge/Roll need to be looked at.

aipex8_ESO wrote: »

If you're a properly spec'd stamina build, running out of stamina (even when using it for dodge/block/break free) should not happen often. About 80% of my attacks are weapon attacks, only using magicka attacks for opening and sometimes executing, and I rarely run dry on stamina. Prior to 1.2.3 I had to rely on Invigorating Drain to refill stamina a lot, now I rarely use it and when I do it's for health, not stamina.

I don't think that adding a 4th resource is a good idea as it just confuses things. Really it would just be a second stamina pool used only for defense. Most likely you aren't going to be rolling so often as to drain it, so you might as well just not add the bar and make defense abilities free. And if you sprint for 30 seconds to get to a fight, you SHOULD be out of stamina!

Bow needs some love though. I started out as DW/Bow, but bow just never seemed like it was effective enough so I ended up DW/DW (single target/AOE) which I like much better.

As a NB I am always running out of stamina when using a bow. Popping potions doesn't help the least bit. Just drains all your stam for crap damage when compared to the magicka builds out there. And invigorating drain doesn't help anyone that isn't a vamp.

Cydone

Yes! Both Bow and Sprint/Dodge/Roll need to be looked at.

Anyone else have an opinion in support or against this?? Surely there are those out there that would love to use bow, that just don't because it isn't viable compared to magicka builds. Or hell, even people that don't use 2H or DW because the viability is far less than magicka builds. Lets hear your voice!

RazielSR

Yes! Both Bow and Sprint/Dodge/Roll need to be looked at.

I started my char with 2h/heavy armour until 50. Then I went dw/medium-heavy armour. Then I went bow/medium heavy.
Im a dk.

Stamina based builds are just not well balanced compared to magicka. I really think that maybe the deisgners from Zos hates or dont like stamina based builds,nor like warriors,archers...

I wont go light armour + staff anyway. I hope they will fix stamina with time. Why still the stamina builds broken? Just zos knows. Maybe they find this funny.

Zabus

Cydone wrote: »

After watching the entirety of the "Future of ESO" panel presentation and discussion I was wondering when these stamina builds are going to become more viable?

Well a good start would be to try out some of the set bonuses with weapon crit / weapon damage. Using class abilities and not solely relying on stamina abilities would also help. Ultimate scaling off of weapon damage if it's higher than your spell damage also helps a lot. This does not still put magicka / stam on par, but it's a good start.

I'm pulling off way more damage on my nightblade rocking medium compared to pre-patch xD

Ateameric

Yes! Both Bow and Sprint/Dodge/Roll need to be looked at.

Yes! Both Bow and Sprint/Dodge/Roll need to be looked at.

Please make Sprint/Dodge/Roll with CD without consuming stamina.
The CD depends on the max stamina. (higher stamina shorten the CD so that mage should has longer CD)

Vunter

Yes! Bow damage needs to be addressed and it's damage increased.

Lately I'm playing pvp, my char is a glass cannon. Sometimes i get killed in 2 sec by some kind of venom arrow spamming

Anyway, bow isn't comparable to the staff, but all the stamina weapons are. And the other weapons are weaker than bow, generally speaking (not for the spam thing I mentioned then)

Soothy

Yes! Both Bow and Sprint/Dodge/Roll need to be looked at.

xsfkxnub19_ESO wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

After watching the entirety of the "Future of ESO" panel presentation and discussion I was wondering when these stamina builds are going to become more viable?

Well a good start would be to try out some of the set bonuses with weapon crit / weapon damage. Using class abilities and not solely relying on stamina abilities would also help.

It does beg the question as to why you need to do that to make a stamina build viable yet the reverse is not required to make a magicka build viable?

Cydone

Yes! Both Bow and Sprint/Dodge/Roll need to be looked at.

Vunter wrote: »

Lately I'm playing pvp, my char is a glass cannon. Sometimes i get killed in 2 sec by some kind of venom arrow spamming

Anyway, bow isn't comparable to the staff, but all the stamina weapons are. And the other weapons are weaker than bow, generally speaking (not for the spam thing I mentioned then)

That could be from the bug that has arisen from not this last patch, but the one before it. Where the longer you are in Cyrodill, the more damage you do, for about 10-30mins.....then your client crashes. Cause venom arrow, while nice, was never an extremely high damage dealer....even when spammed.

Dubah

Have ya'll even tried? We got a stamina build that does mostly dw with bow when needed and does the same amount of dps as our best magicka guy... DaFunk just ran the hard modes with nightblades i think 6 of them or 7 maybe and nothing but stamina builds. Stop complaining that you can't play and go make a build that works because they are out there... Play the game a bit and figure it out, with this new patch it pretty much equaled out the gameplay between magicka based and stamina based builds... Heck my level 17 dw/bow nightblade does 150-200 dps average and thats with just the 2 trait stamina based sets

AoEnwyr

Yes! Both Bow and Sprint/Dodge/Roll need to be looked at.

I don't use a bow so can't comment on that one, but improving the dodge mechanic really is something I think needs looking at. Now I admit sometimes I might mash my keys but the number of unintentional combat rolls I do at entirely inappropriate times is just ridiculous *sigh*

On a more serious note I have a Templar that I have both stamina based and magicka based skill sets for. Compared to my Sorc who is entirely Magicka based, I find my gameplay much more adaptive to the situation at hand on my Templar. I don't think people realise how much diversity in combat they are missing out on by not putting points into stamina and having a set of stamina based skills.

Soothy

Yes! Both Bow and Sprint/Dodge/Roll need to be looked at.

Dubah wrote: »

Have ya'll even tried? We got a stamina build that does mostly dw with bow when needed and does the same amount of dps as our best magicka guy... DaFunk just ran the hard modes with nightblades i think 6 of them or 7 maybe and nothing but stamina builds. Stop complaining that you can't play and go make a build that works because they are out there... Play the game a bit and figure it out, with this new patch it pretty much equaled out the gameplay between magicka based and stamina based builds... Heck my level 17 dw/bow nightblade does 150-200 dps average and thats with just the 2 trait stamina based sets

DaFunk? That's like saying everyone should L2P on WoW because if you're not as good as Paragon, you suck.

Tankqull

No! Bow is fine as it is.

no!!!!!
the problem is not the dmg!
the problem is the refill abilities of stamina to sustain the dmg. and that needs to be adressed.

Cydone

Yes! Both Bow and Sprint/Dodge/Roll need to be looked at.

Dubah wrote: »

Have ya'll even tried? We got a stamina build that does mostly dw with bow when needed and does the same amount of dps as our best magicka guy... DaFunk just ran the hard modes with nightblades i think 6 of them or 7 maybe and nothing but stamina builds. Stop complaining that you can't play and go make a build that works because they are out there... Play the game a bit and figure it out, with this new patch it pretty much equaled out the gameplay between magicka based and stamina based builds... Heck my level 17 dw/bow nightblade does 150-200 dps average and thats with just the 2 trait stamina based sets

Your post is pretty funny considering that if there were as many options for viable stamina builds, the entire development team of ESO wouldn't have said the complete opposite at QuakeCon.

ItsMeToo

Yes! Bow damage needs to be addressed and it's damage increased.

Use foods and drinks to buff magica/health/stamina they work wonders and come in a lot of levels and buff amounts. I make and use them all the time. Try it... you'll like it.

Cydone

Yes! Both Bow and Sprint/Dodge/Roll need to be looked at.

ItsMeToo wrote: »

Use foods and drinks to buff magica/health/stamina they work wonders and come in a lot of levels and buff amounts. I make and use them all the time. Try it... you'll like it.

I have a lvl 50 provisioner and alchemist, trust me I've tested it. No build I have tried has compared to the level of damage you can get by even the most simplistic magicka build.

xaraan

Yes! Bow damage needs to be addressed and it's damage increased.

I think they probably could do a little more tweaking to bows, but nothing too drastic. With the new patch, my power level increased significantly in my stamina build. As for dodge roll, no, they should not have a separate bar for this, I think it's fine tied to stamina as is - I would probably just up the cost reduction on medium armor a smidge and leave it at that.

It's not sprint/dodge roll that makes stamina users less powerful, it's the armor penetration on light armor that makes such a big difference for magic users. That and the fact that class abilities scale off magicka, meaning if you want to mix class skills in with your weapon skill on the bar, they will suck compared to a staff user mixing class skills into their bar. The ultimate change in the latest patch did help quite a bit though.

ItsMeToo

Yes! Bow damage needs to be addressed and it's damage increased.

Cydone wrote: »

ItsMeToo wrote: »

Use foods and drinks to buff magica/health/stamina they work wonders and come in a lot of levels and buff amounts. I make and use them all the time. Try it... you'll like it.

I have a lvl 50 provisioner and alchemist, trust me I've tested it. No build I have tried has compared to the level of damage you can get by even the most simplistic magicka build.

I agree, but it does help and it's better than nothing. Getting more shots off before you run out is a good thing. Plus, my food and drinks taste soooo good.

TehMagnus

No! Both Bow and the Sprint/Dodge/Roll are fine as they are!

Bow is fine as it is, problem is almost nobody knows how to play it properly so, as usual, it's the game's fault and it needs to be fixed.

Rodario

Yes! Bow damage needs to be addressed and it's damage increased.

Also, the highest potential dps should be that of melee builds. Why? Because in most encounters you can't stay in melee range all the time, so while you're at it you should deal more damage than the ranged options which don't get interrupted as much.

TehMagnus

No! Both Bow and the Sprint/Dodge/Roll are fine as they are!

Rodario wrote: »

Also, the highest potential dps should be that of melee builds. Why? Because in most encounters you can't stay in melee range all the time, so while you're at it you should deal more damage than the ranged options which don't get interrupted as much.

Sure because in any fantasy world, swords do more damage than spells, that's why Gandalf destroys thousands of orcs with... oh no wait, it isn't.

Also, currently, melee does already more burst damage than spells, only reason why mages are more viable in trials is because of the dots that are applied to the bosses that give damage over time. A caster's AA build for trials doesn't stand a chance in PVP vs a melee build with burst dmg & gap closer.

Rodario

Yes! Bow damage needs to be addressed and it's damage increased.

magnusnet wrote: »

Rodario wrote: »

Also, the highest potential dps should be that of melee builds. Why? Because in most encounters you can't stay in melee range all the time, so while you're at it you should deal more damage than the ranged options which don't get interrupted as much.

Sure because in any fantasy world, swords do more damage than spells, that's why Gandalf destroys thousands of orcs with... oh no wait, it isn't.

Also, currently, melee does already more burst damage than spells, only reason why mages are more viable in trials is because of the dots that are applied to the bosses that give damage over time. A caster's AA build for trials doesn't stand a chance in PVP vs a melee build with burst dmg & gap closer.

I remember Gandalf mostly melee fighting with a staff and sword, the only magic I remember him using being the floodlight from his staff that chased off the Nazgul. I'm referring to LOTR though, as I'm going to watch the Hobbit once the whole trilogy is out.

I was talking about PvE only and I'm okay with ranged builds getting some more burst, if melee gets some higher sustainable dps. Increasing the damage from bleeding effects might be a good start.

Shunravi

Yes! Both Bow and Sprint/Dodge/Roll need to be looked at.

magnusnet wrote: »

Rodario wrote: »

Also, the highest potential dps should be that of melee builds. Why? Because in most encounters you can't stay in melee range all the time, so while you're at it you should deal more damage than the ranged options which don't get interrupted as much.

Sure because in any fantasy world, swords do more damage than spells, that's why Gandalf destroys thousands of orcs with... oh no wait, it isn't.

Also, currently, melee does already more burst damage than spells, only reason why mages are more viable in trials is because of the dots that are applied to the bosses that give damage over time. A caster's AA build for trials doesn't stand a chance in PVP vs a melee build with burst dmg & gap closer.

Gandalf is the poster boy for the hybrid build. He fights with Glamdring as often, if not more than his staff. In the movies, as I recall, they showed him fighting the Balrog with Glamdring and using magic to shield himself and boost his dps