Bow skill-line broken? Exploiting? I have no idea.

ThyIronFist

Just look at this video and tell me what you think. I think it's complete [snip].

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBTprY913cU&feature=youtu.be

This guy killed me a couple of times already, it took him rather long to kill me this time, since he actually managed to kill me a few times in literally 0.5 seconds. I was discussing this with a friend on TS3, he also kept getting one-shotted. It seemed impossible, but it looks like anyone can actually do this.

Please fix this, because I don't think this is "working as intended".

Also, I wonder if Zenimax actually knows what they are doing, because a couple of patches ago (correct me if I'm wrong) they actually buffed Poison Injection and Snipe. Kind of makes me wonder why...

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Teargrants

You're marked, why are you just sitting on your horse?

Also, showing your death recap woulda gone a long way to answering your questions.

ThyIronFist

^ all of this is less than a second. Seriously though, I've been PvPing for a long while and this is the first time I've experienced this.

And to answer your question, the reason why I'm sitting on my horse is just for the sake of recording. I was on foot a couple of times as well, using Reflective Scales is pointless since that skill has also been broken for a while now.

dcincali

Cheaters gonna cheat..

Nermy

As it says in your recap, you're marked which means that his arrows ignore 75% of your armour and spell resistance. (You do the same to them but it's meaningless if you're sat on your horse or are at range.)

Still, it does seem a lot of damage. He might have an enchantment which does more damage from his bow... I have one but can't remember it off the top of my head. Will post later if you're interested.

icengr_ESO

how is it cheating? you get marked. and snipe is by no means a quick ability. its the longest cast of the bow line. and you get hit three other times. it sucks I know. (believe me I suck a pvp, just not quick enough) but cheating, or even exploit? I don't think so. it was a fairly quick attack though. your best bet I would think would be an invis. potion to quick hide.

DeLindsay

dcincali wrote: »

Cheaters gonna cheat..

Who cheated? I didn't see anyone cheating or hacking or exploiting in this short video. And seriously lol that anyone is now complaining about Bow damage. How about you get hit by "Burning" from a certain Sorc who won't be mentioned and that hits you for nearly 3K, repeatedly.

BTW, you do understand what double dipping is right? It's when you start off with a casted ability and right before it fires off you clip it with an instant cast so that they basically fire off together and the instant scales from whatever Sneaking damage bonus you have. This is a valid tactic in just about every MMO and is in no way cheating, as long as the game mechanic allows for it. That means the Bow user could get off a casted/heavy attack + an instant and then a light attack + another instant in roughly 1-1.5 seconds. It's called an opener, or Burst damage and is meant to do exactly what it did to you, kill you before you have time to react. Every Class can do this with any Casted abilities/instants/light attacks, Bow isn't unique to this.

Pancake-Tragedy

Focused Aim (a snipe morph) has a LONG travel time. So during this travel time, the player timed a light attack along with another skill with an animation canceled light attack.

All the while, you just sat on your horse while marked. You were outplayed.

Garm

That looks like exactly the sort of sniper build that I roll with in Cyrodiil. There are several things to consider. First of all, moving targets are a lot harder to get all the hits off on, especially since Snipe's range was nerfed. 35 and stay alive. The "Marked Target" means that you're basically naked. On the upshot, so is he. You can enchant a bow with irresistable damage for 30-35 extra base weapon damage, and take a potion to further increase and overcharge your base weapon damage, which makes everything hit harder. If you wear all medium armor, it increases your crit chance considerably. Firing from concealment will increase damage. Snipe is the last skill in the bow skill line, and there are a pile of passives that increase damage at range.

So, the speed at which the target takes the damage is a result of the travel time for the snipe. Here's how it works. You Mark the target, which alerts them to your presence but doesn't drop concealment. Then you fire off the snipe, which throws the arrow very high up in the air. While it's sailing on its time delayed arc, you pull back a light attack and animation cancel with poison arrow. So, the light attack and poison hit at the same time. Then the snipe arrow hits for a big amount of damage. Poison arrow is morphed to do extra damage to low health targets, scaling up to 300%, so you just mash it until the armorless target dies.

Everything from the custom weapon, to a fully trained skill line, all weapon passives, armor passives, class choice, potions, preparation (stealthing to a choke point is slow and risky), mundus stone, skills, morphs and armor enchants, and last but not least player skill and timing finally culminates in a beautiful kill like the one in the video.

SO. What's your counterplay? First, stack impenetrability on all of your armor pieces. More and more people are doing this nowadays. Marked target reduces armor and spell resistance, but doesn't touch the impenetrability trait. What you want is to negate their crit. This sort of sniper build relies on crit. Get off of your horse and block, and don't stop blocking until the barrage is over. After that first barrage, if you can see them, charge in or use a knockback to disorient them, while you get in close. If you're worried about snipers while riding cross country or defending a keep wall, fit a ring or a couple of rings of poison resistance. Keep moving, especially when you get Marked. If you're alone, turn around, ride back to where you came from, and get 3-4 other riders. Snipers are opportunistic, we prey on the last rider in a column, gambling that nobody will turn around to help them. There are two things that really freak us out. One is a big group of riders, spread out, riding around with magelights on, flushing us out of the rocks.

The second thing are the true assassins, those super dedicated stealthies that can walk up and floss our teeth before we even know they're there. Seriously, nobody is safe from those guys.

Poxheart

ThyIronFist wrote: »

Just look at this video and tell me what you think. I think it's complete [snip].

I think that you are new to Cyrodiil and haven't quite figured out how things work. Generally, when an opponent marks you, that means they intend to attack and kill you. Next time you find yourself in this situation, rather than sit on your horse panning your camera around like a clueless noob, I recommend you dismount, block, and attempt to hide. Even if you can't successfully hide, blocking will mitigate a lot of the damage & may even cause the enemy that marked you to refrain from attacking you.

You're welcome.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

pitdemon_ESO

Garm wrote: »

That looks like exactly the sort of sniper build that I roll with in Cyrodiil. There are several things to consider. First of all, moving targets are a lot harder to get all the hits off on, especially since Snipe's range was nerfed. 35 and stay alive. The "Marked Target" means that you're basically naked. On the upshot, so is he. You can enchant a bow with irresistable damage for 30-35 extra base weapon damage, and take a potion to further increase and overcharge your base weapon damage, which makes everything hit harder. If you wear all medium armor, it increases your crit chance considerably. Firing from concealment will increase damage. Snipe is the last skill in the bow skill line, and there are a pile of passives that increase damage at range.

So, the speed at which the target takes the damage is a result of the travel time for the snipe. Here's how it works. You Mark the target, which alerts them to your presence but doesn't drop concealment. Then you fire off the snipe, which throws the arrow very high up in the air. While it's sailing on its time delayed arc, you pull back a light attack and animation cancel with poison arrow. So, the light attack and poison hit at the same time. Then the snipe arrow hits for a big amount of damage. Poison arrow is morphed to do extra damage to low health targets, scaling up to 300%, so you just mash it until the armorless target dies.

Everything from the custom weapon, to a fully trained skill line, all weapon passives, armor passives, class choice, potions, preparation (stealthing to a choke point is slow and risky), mundus stone, skills, morphs and armor enchants, and last but not least player skill and timing finally culminates in a beautiful kill like the one in the video.

SO. What's your counterplay? First, stack impenetrability on all of your armor pieces. More and more people are doing this nowadays. Marked target reduces armor and spell resistance, but doesn't touch the impenetrability trait. What you want is to negate their crit. This sort of sniper build relies on crit. Get off of your horse and block, and don't stop blocking until the barrage is over. After that first barrage, if you can see them, charge in or use a knockback to disorient them, while you get in close. If you're worried about snipers while riding cross country or defending a keep wall, fit a ring or a couple of rings of poison resistance. Keep moving, especially when you get Marked. If you're alone, turn around, ride back to where you came from, and get 3-4 other riders. Snipers are opportunistic, we prey on the last rider in a column, gambling that nobody will turn around to help them. There are two things that really freak us out. One is a big group of riders, spread out, riding around with magelights on, flushing us out of the rocks.

The second thing are the true assassins, those super dedicated stealthies that can walk up and floss our teeth before we even know they're there. Seriously, nobody is safe from those guys.

This guy knows what he's talking about.

As a stealther NB I roam Cyrodiil without sprinting and with my finger on the stealth key. Abilities automatically dismount you and if you have any horse stamina left you won't have that stupid horse animation.

I couldn't even begin to count the amount of times I've been jumped and been able to disappear in front of their face(s).

Also OP, get some more HP. You should have about 3k or more if you plan on doing anything solo in Cyrodiil. Those extra 300-400 HP are the difference between me jumping you and having you dead before you can stand up and sitting there trying to copulate with a turtle while I hope none of your buddies come around.

Also Mark Target adds about 23% damage last I checked vs someone with softcapped armor, while giving up the same damage bonus to you, just FYI

demonlkojipub19_ESO

I don't see why you didn't get off your horse and start blocking. Who in their right mind would sit still on their horse while marked by a Nightblade :?

Even the death recap tells you about the mark target, first line and to block/dodge in the second line.

Most correct death recap ive seen yet.

ThyIronFist

Poxheart wrote: »

ThyIronFist wrote: »

Just look at this video and tell me what you think. I think it's complete [snip].

I think that you are new to Cyrodiil and haven't quite figured out how things work.

I'm a Major rank 21, yes, I am new to Cyrodiil and I'm a complete scrub.

Pancake-Tragedy

ThyIronFist wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

ThyIronFist wrote: »

Just look at this video and tell me what you think. I think it's complete [snip].

I think that you are new to Cyrodiil and haven't quite figured out how things work.

I'm a Major rank 21, yes, I am new to Cyrodiil and I'm a complete scrub.

You just proved that rank means nothing in this game in terms of skill level.

Gecko

ThyIronFist wrote: »

I'm a Major rank 21, yes, I am new to Cyrodiil and I'm a complete scrub.

Wow, you got to rank 21 without knowing about getting marked and jumped from stealth is a bad thing? Generally if I get marked its jump off the horse, pop a detection pot and unstoppable and charge in swinging. I am only like rank 10 though, so I may be doing it wrong.

frwinters_ESO

You were marked, then sniped, then poisoned. This is not an uncomming way to die. A NB doing snipe from stealth is deadly. Especially being marked, your armor stats are lowered by what 75%? No bug and no exploit, this is a common way to die in Cyrodil.

ThyIronFist

Gecko wrote: »

ThyIronFist wrote: »

I'm a Major rank 21, yes, I am new to Cyrodiil and I'm a complete scrub.

Wow, you got to rank 21 without knowing about getting marked and jumped from stealth is a bad thing?

I don't know if you have read any of my posts here in this thread, I knew I was marked and I knew I was getting to be jumped on. I was just baiting the guy.

shanersimms_ESO

ThyIronFist wrote: »

Just look at this video and tell me what you think. I think it's complete [snip].

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBTprY913cU&feature=youtu.be

This guy killed me a couple of times already, it took him rather long to kill me this time, since he actually managed to kill me a few times in literally 0.5 seconds. I was discussing this with a friend on TS3, he also kept getting one-shotted. It seemed impossible, but it looks like anyone can actually do this.

Please fix this, because I don't think this is "working as intended".

Also, I wonder if Zenimax actually knows what they are doing, because a couple of patches ago (correct me if I'm wrong) they actually buffed Poison Injection and Snipe. Kind of makes me wonder why...

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

You can hear focused aim as it's incoming.... there is a sound notification, a dodge roll negates 100% of the 1845 dmg you took.

Parrying is fun too. Purge removes mark.

Tintinabula

also armor set bonuses that add damage or crit or whatever for attacking from hide and mundus stones that add that too..

Cody

all I saw was you getting jumped while on a horse. no cheating occurred. granted, that is a good bit of damage from a light attack, even for mark target, but 1,800 HP is over half of your health. you cant expect to last long if you get hit for that much damage. he may have used it as a sneak, then used that thing where you instantly cast/use the next action. idk what its called but I have done it before, and its not cheating. I advise you keep spamming reflective scales if you cant find another way to deal with this, I have a really hard time dealing with DKs that spam reflective scales. I often have to just abandon them, and find another player to get(im a NB archer)

Cody

heck iv took out many players from stealth WITHOUT mark target and snipe. you just got jumped, and the player jumping you just happened to be using some pretty good abilities. no cheating happened.

Artemiisia

lol why u standing in the middle of the open, on a horse, marked from a nightblade, you asking for it sir.

next time you get that nasty nightblade dot on you, get purified as soon as possible or watch out for 1m its the longest dot in the game.

Lettigall

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Focused Aim (a snipe morph) has a LONG travel time. So during this travel time, the player timed a light attack along with another skill with an animation canceled light attack.

All the while, you just sat on your horse while marked. You were outplayed.

^^ This. Shoot from snipe takes very long time to travel. Some times you can hit target with light attack and venom shot before arrow from snipe arrives.

While sieging I seen many times how target simply walks away from my shot, in dmg log shows that it was dodged.

It just seems that you were killed in 1 sec, but in reality 1sec to marking target, 2sec to snipe and at least 1-2sec to shoot light attack + venom. To player that knows how to gank 5 secs is enough to kill enemy, especially with marking target skill.

P.S. Player who killed OP maybe could post his build? I'm interested what armor and weapon sets are being used.

Orchish

Marked target and focused aim. Working as intended. Try not to sit on your horse and maybe block a little.

maxilaub17_ESO

I've gotten hit with that around that amount of ridiculous focus aim damage many times too, and follow-up bow attacks for 600 -800 wearing max crit resist, all of it happening on my screen in about a second.

Kewljag_66_ESO

maxilaub17_ESO wrote: »

I've gotten hit with that around that amount of ridiculous focus aim damage many times too, and follow-up bow attacks for 600 -800 wearing max crit resist, all of it happening on my screen in about a second.

Focus Aim will have the big damage if it is a sneak attack, I beleive it does 2.5 X the regular damage as a sneak attack. not 100% sure exactly on the multiplier tho.

Focus Aim also buffs the archer vs that target for all follow up attacks, something like + 25 weapon damage.

All Bow attacks besides Lethal Arrow are physical attacks based off of your armor. Remember currently most the players run light armor for magic resists, and some with no +armor jewelry, this is why arrows hit them so hard.

The archer in general.... if an archer gears them self as a well rounded player, usually they play the DW assasin game as well also they have defenesive traits and abilities, they are decent at everything and can do good damage with the bow. But the archer that goes full sniper like the Op showed must sacrafice alot of survivability to do that massive sniper damage and they are a glass canon. if anyone gets a hold of them or blind sides them they will die.

Bow also has a lower weapon damage stat then the other weapon lines. My DW is way higher. You can raise that by putting +weapon damage on jewelry but you must sacrifice + magic resist and +armor resist enchants that greatly increse your survivability. but if you choose to go full glass canon you would do that.

ThisOnePosts

Poxheart wrote: »

ThyIronFist wrote: »

Just look at this video and tell me what you think. I think it's complete [snip].

I think that you are new to Cyrodiil and haven't quite figured out how things work. Generally, when an opponent marks you, that means they intend to attack and kill you. Next time you find yourself in this situation, rather than sit on your horse panning your camera around like a clueless noob, I recommend you dismount, block, and attempt to hide. Even if you can't successfully hide, blocking will mitigate a lot of the damage & may even cause the enemy that marked you to refrain from attacking you.

You're welcome.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

LMFAOOOOOOOOO @ the bold print in your paragraph. I mean ya... did you think the red beam on you was a sign of friendship in a PVP zone?

Anytime you decide to ride around Cyrodiil... find an ability that's instant cast on self to keep on your active bar. This way you can immediately dismount your horse the moment you see something going on and at the very least try to block, dodge, etc.. that will go a long way once you learn to implement that.

But as others said, yeah nothing is wrong with how he attacked in this video --- working AS intended.

eliisra

ViciousWayz wrote: »

LMFAOOOOOOOOO @ the bold print in your paragraph. I mean ya... did you think the red beam on you was a sign of friendship in a PVP zone?

Anytime you decide to ride around Cyrodiil... find an ability that's instant cast on self to keep on your active bar. This way you can immediately dismount your horse the moment you see something going on and at the very least try to block, dodge, etc.. that will go a long way once you learn to implement that.

But as others said, yeah nothing is wrong with how he attacked in this video --- working AS intended.

Holy Christ the amount of *** in this thread is almost frightening. People only click video and puke out obvious copy-paste replies?

Everyone here knows you die when mounted ffs. This is not the new player section, where you ask how to block or dodge.

The guy said over and over that he placed himself on the horse with the intention of recording the dmg, to make sure the guy would attack him again with the same skills.

The question was regarding the bow dmg.

But 90% of the people in this thread can't read as it turns out and just keeps going on and on about the bloody mount. What the hell is wrong with people on this forum?

Can we discuss how someone makes Focused Aim do 1845 dmg instead?

demonlkojipub19_ESO

You missed all the parts where people stated reapers mark ignores 75% of armor. I can get my Lethal arrow to hit for 1.1k with a sneak attack crit, and I'm not a night blade so no reapers mark. Flawless dawnbreaker can make this stronger, weapon damage potions can make this stronger, if I were a nightblade reapers mark would definitely make this stronger.

But op had actually tried to fight his opponent, the video would have been much different. It would have been more exploit worthy if the nightblade did 1.8k through a block, but that was a full on buffed focus aim to the back of the dudes head, with unavoided follow-ups. People actually trying to survive don't die that fast.

Should think about what he is doing, or not doing in this instance, to not die before posting stupid videos crying exploit.

Pancake-Tragedy

eliisra wrote: »

Can we discuss how someone makes Focused Aim do 1845 dmg instead?

Marked Target - Reduces Enemy and caster's armor and spell resistance by 75%

Stealthed + Nightblade Passive "Master Assassin" increases weapon and spell power by 10%

Hemorrhage - Nightblade passive increases critical hit damage by 10%

Your welcome.

Ifthir_ESO

Flawless dawnbreaker passive + weapon dmg
Maneuvers morph + weapon dmg


Stack a few of these + weapon crit pot and its not unrealistic