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COD, Mail System, and player fraud

fafnircorrino
fafnircorrino
Soul Shriven
I have already had this happen three times in less than a month: Player requests to purchase crafting materials from me, via COD. I send the COD and the player neither accepts nor returns the materials, and ignores all responses leaving me no money, no materials, and with no way to track the player and make a report because there is no way to tell what mail has been sent to whom unless I write down the name of each player before I send a COD. I can't tell if there is an exploit they are trying to use, hoping that my account will close, or what. Has anyone else had this problem, or is there something I am missing?
  • indytims_ESO
    indytims_ESO
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    I have had this issue come up several times.

    In several cases, I emailed them a reminder the next day, and my payment came back to me within hours.

    But there have been a few who simply don't bother rejecting or accepting the COD. I figure they were "Commerce PVPing" or something, as I dunno if this is considered griefing or not. I saw a few others talking about this in zonechat a couple weeks ago, and one guy said he doesn't COD items above 1k gold. Period. I suppose that's one way to resolve this.

    In the end, I think COD's should have a -very- short timer: say, 24 hours. If the person doesn't reject or accept the COD within 24 hours, the COD should auto-reject and return to you.
  • Nebthet78
    Nebthet78
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    If I receive an in game message from someone I don't know with materials in it and a COD fee. I report the player and leave the items in my email to rot until the allotted time frame passes. Too many people are beginning to use this method to scam other players who may not be paying attention as well as they should.

    So make sure, when you are sending something, you ARE sending it to the correct player.
    Edited by Nebthet78 on July 21, 2014 5:32AM
    Far too many characters to list any more.
  • ZOS_MichelleA
    ZOS_MichelleA
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    Hey there, folks! We just wanted to pop in real quick and assure you that COD emails expire after three days, and you will receive your items back if they are not claimed by the person to whom you sent them. :)
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  • fromtesonlineb16_ESO
    fromtesonlineb16_ESO
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    Nebthet78 wrote: »
    If I receive an in game message from someone I don't know with materials in it and a COD fee. I report the player
    So you report people for making a mistake?

    Nice person you are!

    Edited by fromtesonlineb16_ESO on July 21, 2014 6:28AM
  • stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO
    stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO
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    If it is a one time mistake, reporting will not do any harm. If it is a recurring pattern to squeeze money from unsuspecting random people, only reporting will reveal that. There's nothing bad about reporting suspicious behavior.
  • Iago
    Iago
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    I have already had this happen three times in less than a month: Player requests to purchase crafting materials from me, via COD. I send the COD and the player neither accepts nor returns the materials, and ignores all responses leaving me no money, no materials, and with no way to track the player and make a report because there is no way to tell what mail has been sent to whom unless I write down the name of each player before I send a COD. I can't tell if there is an exploit they are trying to use, hoping that my account will close, or what. Has anyone else had this problem, or is there something I am missing?

    I sold some soul gems a month or so back and they did the same thing. I just wrote it off as stupid tax and am much more careful about whom I sell to.
    That which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.

    -Thomas Pain

  • Iago
    Iago
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    Hey there, folks! We just wanted to pop in real quick and assure you that COD emails expire after three days, and you will receive your items back if they are not claimed by the person to whom you sent them. :)

    Thats not true at all because I have had people hole emails up to two weeks before they accepted them.
    That which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.

    -Thomas Pain

  • fafnircorrino
    fafnircorrino
    Soul Shriven
    Iago wrote: »
    Hey there, folks! We just wanted to pop in real quick and assure you that COD emails expire after three days, and you will receive your items back if they are not claimed by the person to whom you sent them. :)

    Thats not true at all because I have had people hole emails up to two weeks before they accepted them.

    I agree with Lago and respectfully disagree with you Michelle. Moreover, there were quite a few folks in the zone chat who claimed they were having similar problems, most notably coming from "players" who claim to want to purchase large amounts of materials for higher than normal prices. Mail gets sent and nothing comes in return. Either there is an exploit that is going unnoticed, or there are quite a few players engaged in this pattern of misbehavior. I will say that the concept of mails being deleted/returned after a certain expiration time is not true, as I have had mail messages (not CODs) that have lasted more than the 30 days. As long as you read the message, it never expires. One is given to wonder whether or not that is the case with this, where a COD can exist indefinitely as long as the person keeps reading the message without accepting the COD or perhaps some exploit wherein a player gets the COD via another character on the same account. All I do know, is that this is happening, and whatever fail-safes or redundancies that are in place for the CODs in the mail system do not seem to be working in the manner in which they should or are being circumvented for whatever reason.
  • Iago
    Iago
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    Iago wrote: »
    Hey there, folks! We just wanted to pop in real quick and assure you that COD emails expire after three days, and you will receive your items back if they are not claimed by the person to whom you sent them. :)

    Thats not true at all because I have had people hole emails up to two weeks before they accepted them.

    I agree with Lago and respectfully disagree with you Michelle. Moreover, there were quite a few folks in the zone chat who claimed they were having similar problems, most notably coming from "players" who claim to want to purchase large amounts of materials for higher than normal prices. Mail gets sent and nothing comes in return. Either there is an exploit that is going unnoticed, or there are quite a few players engaged in this pattern of misbehavior. I will say that the concept of mails being deleted/returned after a certain expiration time is not true, as I have had mail messages (not CODs) that have lasted more than the 30 days. As long as you read the message, it never expires. One is given to wonder whether or not that is the case with this, where a COD can exist indefinitely as long as the person keeps reading the message without accepting the COD or perhaps some exploit wherein a player gets the COD via another character on the same account. All I do know, is that this is happening, and whatever fail-safes or redundancies that are in place for the CODs in the mail system do not seem to be working in the manner in which they should or are being circumvented for whatever reason.


    The solution would be simple enough give players the option to set an expiration timer on COD emails, that way even if they are read they will come back at the end of the timer cycle if the attachments have not been taken.
    That which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.

    -Thomas Pain

  • SBR_QuorTek
    SBR_QuorTek
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    Better solution, add a max timer on and make sure that it work, the GM said there was a 72 hour accept time, maybe it is broken, but 24 hours or 3 hours or something would be better.
  • The_Death_Princess
    The_Death_Princess
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    Better solution, add a max timer on and make sure that it work, the GM said there was a 72 hour accept time, maybe it is broken, but 24 hours or 3 hours or something would be better.

    I have to agree. I by something, I want it now lol. It means I am in need of using it for a research or what not.

    72 Hours is a little long. Really, if someone does not accept it in the game session they request it, then it cant be that important to them. 24 hours tops (since the game seems to show a day counter) seems okay to me.

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  • Iago
    Iago
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    Better solution, add a max timer on and make sure that it work, the GM said there was a 72 hour accept time, maybe it is broken, but 24 hours or 3 hours or something would be better.

    In my experience I would say the timer is def broken as I have been waiting a month plus for a COD email that has yet to be returned
    That which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.

    -Thomas Pain

  • Syzmicke
    Syzmicke
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    Better solution don't use COD if your buying or selling just meet up and trade its not hard.

    If you recieve unsolicited COD Mail just return or ignore it.
  • LunaRae
    LunaRae
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    Small stuff I don't CoD simply because I can travel anywhere to trade... and 99% of all my trading happens in Riften so it's not necessary. Big trades I definitely don't CoD because of the absurd fees, I just meet up with the individual to do the trade.

    But it's stupid the sender can't recall mail, so instead of finding out the person means to be lame and hold on to your mail for whatever spiteful reason you can simply recall your mail and get your items back at anytime.
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  • Catches_the_Sun
    Catches_the_Sun
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    I have already had this happen three times in less than a month: Player requests to purchase crafting materials from me, via COD. I send the COD and the player neither accepts nor returns the materials, and ignores all responses leaving me no money, no materials, and with no way to track the player and make a report because there is no way to tell what mail has been sent to whom unless I write down the name of each player before I send a COD. I can't tell if there is an exploit they are trying to use, hoping that my account will close, or what. Has anyone else had this problem, or is there something I am missing?

    What I've found is that the player is using a cheap tactic. Here is an example. Let's say you're selling a Barbaric Motif. You receive a tell from a buyer, and you agree on the price of 10k gold. The buyer requests the item sent COD, and you oblige him by sending him that mail. The "buyer" then is able to link the Barbaric Motif from his Mail inbox without accepting the item. So he'll link the item for sale in his trade guilds and travel to different zones, in an attempt to make a profit off of you before he actually buys the item. If he is able to find a buyer for a higher price, he "accepts" your COD charge. If he is not, then he just lets it rot.

    This is something that I posted on May 20 and it received no attention. The bottom line is they need to remove the ability for players to link items from their mail inbox, as these are not items that they own yet. COD Mail Linking

    I can also confirm that I have had COD mail last WAY longer than 3 days before being returned to me.



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  • madangrypally
    madangrypally
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    I have not had this happen to me, but ill test a few things that may be causing this. Ill see if I can reproduce the CoD bug with a guild mate and if so ill write up a bug report and also forward it to the community manager to make sure it gets seen.
  • Iago
    Iago
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    I have already had this happen three times in less than a month: Player requests to purchase crafting materials from me, via COD. I send the COD and the player neither accepts nor returns the materials, and ignores all responses leaving me no money, no materials, and with no way to track the player and make a report because there is no way to tell what mail has been sent to whom unless I write down the name of each player before I send a COD. I can't tell if there is an exploit they are trying to use, hoping that my account will close, or what. Has anyone else had this problem, or is there something I am missing?

    What I've found is that the player is using a cheap tactic. Here is an example. Let's say you're selling a Barbaric Motif. You receive a tell from a buyer, and you agree on the price of 10k gold. The buyer requests the item sent COD, and you oblige him by sending him that mail. The "buyer" then is able to link the Barbaric Motif from his Mail inbox without accepting the item. So he'll link the item for sale in his trade guilds and travel to different zones, in an attempt to make a profit off of you before he actually buys the item. If he is able to find a buyer for a higher price, he "accepts" your COD charge. If he is not, then he just lets it rot.

    This is something that I posted on May 20 and it received no attention. The bottom line is they need to remove the ability for players to link items from their mail inbox, as these are not items that they own yet. COD Mail Linking

    I can also confirm that I have had COD mail last WAY longer than 3 days before being returned to me.



    I have not heard of this scam but it is horrible and definitely needs to fixed.
    That which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.

    -Thomas Pain

  • Grim13
    Grim13
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    Any fix should extend to the items one sells in a Guild Store, too. I hate the fact that ZOS can't be bothered to even tell me which item I've sold, lol, and if you have a ton of things on sale, for a similar price, good luck guessing which item it was from the amount of gold received.
  • SirAndy
    SirAndy
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    I stopped using COD completely.

    The current COD system is just not worth the aggravation, it's either meet up and trade or nothing.
    ;-)
  • Palidon
    Palidon
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    Yep just had this useless COD crap happen to me. Player wanted Robe of the Warlock and Signet of the Warlock. Offered 3k each. Sent him the items COD and nothing came back. Out the items and 6k in profit. There should be a one hour time limit on COD's. If no response by then items are returned and the player who wanted the items fined a delay fee playable to the sender. See how fast that will stop the COD crap of players sitting on items sent to them. Why this three day limit. Doesn't make sense to me and many players have waited long past the three days to get items back. Even keeping the players name is useless. Can't prove fraud. Like I said if you have not received payment within one hour then they did not want it in the first place. ESO needs to modify the wait time and add in a fine. When the receiver sits on an item sent then the sender is losing money and an opportunity to send the items to another player.
    Edited by Palidon on July 23, 2014 11:40PM
  • Iago
    Iago
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    Palidon wrote: »
    Yep just had this useless COD crap happen to me. Player wanted Robe of the Warlock and Signet of the Warlock. Offered 3k each. Sent him the items COD and nothing came back. Out the items and 6k in profit. There should be a one hour time limit on COD's. If no response by then items are returned and the player who wanted the items fined a delay fee playable to the sender. See how fast that will stop the COD crap of players sitting on items sent to them. Why this three day limit. Doesn't make sense to me and many players have waited long past the three days to get items back. Even keeping the players name is useless. Can't prove fraud. Like I said if you have not received payment within one hour then they did not want it in the first place. ESO needs to modify the wait time and add in a fine. When the receiver sits on an item sent then the sender is losing money and an opportunity to send the items to another player.

    Three day limit doesnt always work....
    That which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.

    -Thomas Pain

  • XquixoticalX
    XquixoticalX
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    @ZOS_MichelleA‌ that's a fine theory, but if that's the protocol for COD mail I don't think it's working properly. I've definitely had things go longer than 3 days. Some things I've just written off that I will never get paid for or get the items returned. I actually had no idea there even was a 3 day limit on CODs. I just figured it was my fault for being stupid and COD trading with strangers and I had to learn my lesson the hard way.

    @fafnircorrino‌ To the OP and others interested: we should test this out! It would be simple.

    Get with a buddy and send each other two separate 5g COD mails each with a trash item attached (idk, worms or something). We test it with two mails to determine if the COD mail timer bug is happening when mail is left unread or if mail is read (or both). So leave one of the COD mails you get unread, don't ever click on it. Read the other one. Don't respond to either. We will see if in 3 days time both mails are returned, or just one, or neither. Everyone should do this with a buddy and come back to this thread to share your findings after 3 days.

    **I think trading test mails with a buddy is better than just asking a friend to ignore your COD as a test because if the bug is happening, and it happens to both, that's two replications.

    **Each test mail should be labeled in the subject line to ensure that you don't accidentally "read" the "no read" test mail. It should have a subject line that says COD TEST MAIL (DON'T READ), while the other one says COD TEST MAIL (READ) or something similar. Whatever makes it stand out so you don't accidentally click the wrong one on day 2 and ruin part of the experiment.
    ~ Belle Folie

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  • Palidon
    Palidon
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    Iago wrote: »
    I have already had this happen three times in less than a month: Player requests to purchase crafting materials from me, via COD. I send the COD and the player neither accepts nor returns the materials, and ignores all responses leaving me no money, no materials, and with no way to track the player and make a report because there is no way to tell what mail has been sent to whom unless I write down the name of each player before I send a COD. I can't tell if there is an exploit they are trying to use, hoping that my account will close, or what. Has anyone else had this problem, or is there something I am missing?

    I sold some soul gems a month or so back and they did the same thing. I just wrote it off as stupid tax and am much more careful about whom I sell to.

    And it will continue until Zenimax does the right thing and starts to punish those who are doing this. The seller should not be the one to suffer. As far as I am concerned if an item is not accepted within one hour of being sent then it should be returned to the sender and the buyer should be punished for fraud. They will continue to do this until ZOS gets off there arse's and starts punishing the ones doing it. And the comment from Zenimax that items are returned after three days. I have never got anything back at all and I have now been taken three times. From now on, I will (1) Write down the players name and (2) if I do not receive payment within 24 hours will report him or her to Zenimax (3) Big value items will only be traded in person no COD.

    Edited by Palidon on August 8, 2014 9:09PM
  • k9mouse
    k9mouse
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    It is very easy to "send gold" instead of COD it. One theory says that some of you might be doing on accident. I order some items before and the sending "sent gold" instead of COD the item.
    Palidon wrote: »
    Iago wrote: »
    I have already had this happen three times in less than a month: Player requests to purchase crafting materials from me, via COD. I send the COD and the player neither accepts nor returns the materials, and ignores all responses leaving me no money, no materials, and with no way to track the player and make a report because there is no way to tell what mail has been sent to whom unless I write down the name of each player before I send a COD. I can't tell if there is an exploit they are trying to use, hoping that my account will close, or what. Has anyone else had this problem, or is there something I am missing?

    I sold some soul gems a month or so back and they did the same thing. I just wrote it off as stupid tax and am much more careful about whom I sell to.

    And it will continue until Zenimax does the right thing and starts to punish those who are doing this. The seller should not be the one to suffer. As far as I am concerned if an item is not accepted within one hour of being sent then it should be returned to the sender and the buyer should be punished for fraud. They will continue to do this until ZOS gets off there arse's and starts punishing the ones doing it. And the comment from Zenimax that items are returned after three days. I have never got anything back at all and I have now been taken three times. From now on, I will (1) Write down the players name and (2) if I do not receive payment within 24 hours will report him or her to Zenimax (3) Big value items will only be traded in person no COD.

    Sometimes I order an item because of a good price, but it will take me a day or two to get the coin needed to pay for it. One hour or 24 hours is to fast of a turn around IMHO.
    Edited by k9mouse on August 8, 2014 11:54PM
  • Iago
    Iago
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    k9mouse wrote: »
    It is very easy to "send gold" instead of COD it. One theory says that some of you might be doing on accident. I order some items before and the sending "sent gold" instead of COD the item.
    Palidon wrote: »
    Iago wrote: »
    I have already had this happen three times in less than a month: Player requests to purchase crafting materials from me, via COD. I send the COD and the player neither accepts nor returns the materials, and ignores all responses leaving me no money, no materials, and with no way to track the player and make a report because there is no way to tell what mail has been sent to whom unless I write down the name of each player before I send a COD. I can't tell if there is an exploit they are trying to use, hoping that my account will close, or what. Has anyone else had this problem, or is there something I am missing?

    I sold some soul gems a month or so back and they did the same thing. I just wrote it off as stupid tax and am much more careful about whom I sell to.

    And it will continue until Zenimax does the right thing and starts to punish those who are doing this. The seller should not be the one to suffer. As far as I am concerned if an item is not accepted within one hour of being sent then it should be returned to the sender and the buyer should be punished for fraud. They will continue to do this until ZOS gets off there arse's and starts punishing the ones doing it. And the comment from Zenimax that items are returned after three days. I have never got anything back at all and I have now been taken three times. From now on, I will (1) Write down the players name and (2) if I do not receive payment within 24 hours will report him or her to Zenimax (3) Big value items will only be traded in person no COD.

    Sometimes I order an item because of a good price, but it will take me a day or two to get the coin needed to pay for it. One hour or 24 hours is to fast of a turn around IMHO.

    I am. fine with a three day grace period. but some one sitting on nearly 40k worth of soul gems for almost a month now really sucks.
    That which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.

    -Thomas Pain

  • SirAndy
    SirAndy
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    k9mouse wrote: »
    Sometimes I order an item because of a good price, but it will take me a day or two to get the coin needed to pay for it. One hour or 24 hours is to fast of a turn around IMHO.
    confused24.gif

    Do the people you buy from know that you don't actually have the money to pay them????
    unsure.gif

  • Epona222
    Epona222
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    k9mouse wrote: »
    Sometimes I order an item because of a good price, but it will take me a day or two to get the coin needed to pay for it. One hour or 24 hours is to fast of a turn around IMHO.

    I think that's really antisocial of you, I have made a note never to sell you anything. If I sell stuff, I want to get the money immediately, I want you to have the money to pay me right away.

    I'm not running an interest-free loan deal.

    What you are doing is taking goods out of peoples' inventories and not paying for them promptly, leaving them in a bad situation. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
    Edited by Epona222 on August 9, 2014 6:32AM
    GM - Ghost Sea Trading Co - NA PC

    Epona was a Romano-Celtic goddess dating back to around 1800 to 2000 years before computer games were invented.
  • ssfiit
    ssfiit
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    k9mouse wrote: »
    Sometimes I order an item because of a good price, but it will take me a day or two to get the coin needed to pay for it. One hour or 24 hours is to fast of a turn around IMHO.

    So, I zone chat an item for sale. You, the guy WITHOUT THE GOLD wanted it and reply. I though you have the gold and did the COD transaction to you. So, now, I have to wait up to 3 days later to get my gold? This is a scam or fraud. You are the reason I dont use COD.
    Edited by ssfiit on August 9, 2014 6:33AM
    ssfiit | VR14 | High Elf Vampire Pyro-Sorceress | Aldmeri Dominion | NA Server
  • zgrssd
    zgrssd
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    ssfiit wrote: »
    k9mouse wrote: »
    Sometimes I order an item because of a good price, but it will take me a day or two to get the coin needed to pay for it. One hour or 24 hours is to fast of a turn around IMHO.

    So, I zone chat an item for sale. You, the guy WITHOUT THE GOLD wanted it and reply. I though you have the gold and did the COD transaction to you. So, now, I have to wait up to 3 days later to get my gold? This is a scam or fraud. You are the reason I dont use COD.
    3 days is the turnaround time for COD mails. Could be pointed out better, but it is the value we have. If you use COD you accept that as part of the system, just like the fee.
    Even in commerce it is not a fraud as long as the person expects to have the money within the timelimit to pay. 3 days is the time limit to pay for COD mails.

    If you sold via /zone and don't meet up with the player it is half your own fault. Meeting is cheaper and more reliable. And with the time mails might take through the system propably faster too. You know you can meet up (same /zone), so using CoD is the worst thing to do.

    Only use COD if you cannot (easily) meet up with someone. Something that should only be possible if you sell via Gild Channel.
    Edited by zgrssd on August 9, 2014 4:55PM
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  • vyal
    vyal
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    If I had to guess, I'd say CoD's are only returned after three days if the seller doesn't look at the mail, at all. As in, they never bring up the mail interface for 3 days.

    If they look, then it's 30 days.

    Obviously, horrible design, and terrible implementation, but that's typical for Zenimax.
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