Why are solo players about to get segregated from group players?

infraction2008b16_ESO

Just to be clear before you read on, I actually enjoy grouping and actually wish there were more incentives to, but on the other hand I do also enjoy soloing at times especially when it's late and server is empty and I can make the adventure my own.

What I don't like is being forced or lumped into doing one or the other.

After reading on reddit about Wrothgar why do we have to wait until after two group only zones are released for any solo content? And more to the point why does there seem to be a policy of splitting up the player base depending on how they want to play socially?

I mean after craglorn you'd think creating zones where both solo/duo and group play could co-exist would be the better option, instead people who don't want to be forced into groups for every little thing have to wait until at least two major updates for any content to be dumped in what seems like a second rate zone just for soloers while everyone else gets regular adventure zones.

It's not only a lousy policy catering for both groups separately but for the company it must be a huge waste of development time and costs, why not kill two birds with the same stone and create areas that cater for all rather than saying if you group you have to go to this zone or if you solo you have to go here....

I mean unless half the dev team happen to be the "you need to group to tie your shoe laces" type what possible reason could there be to divide people up like this?

Fi'yra

I feel like this game is mostly 'group' based tho.

I feel like solo players should just go back to 'Skyrim' instead of complaining.

Nox_Aeterna

Being a solo players , this is a huge issue to me also , but im waiting to see how good of the work they will be doing here before i speak, probably a waste of time yes , but who knows , im an optimist.

BenS1337 wrote: »

I feel like this game is mostly 'group' based tho.

I feel like solo players should just go back to 'Skyrim' instead of complaining.

Pfff , sorry mate , but if all of us left , then you really would have F2P ESO , be glad many solo players do find something to do in ESO.

Evergnar

infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »

Just to be clear before you read on, I actually enjoy grouping and actually wish there were more incentives to, but on the other hand I do also enjoy soloing at times especially when it's late and server is empty and I can make the adventure my own.

What I don't like is being forced or lumped into doing one or the other.

^This. I've never been able figure why the devs always take the approach which ends up isolating, separating, or restricting players and groups. The "off to your corner" approach just doesn't sit well with me.

babylon

I wouldn't bother complaining, all a solo area means is an area that can be fully soloed. It's not like you can't play in the area with your friends or anything.

Tabbycat

I think they are just calling it solo because "Zone in which you don't have to group to complete" is just too wordy. It's just their way of differentiating it from the Adventure Zones that do require groups to complete (unless you are one of those crazy guys that enjoys taking on group content solo).

NewBlacksmurf

The point of an online fame is to play with others. The game should strongly encourage group play always.

infraction2008b16_ESO

Evergnar wrote: »

infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »

Just to be clear before you read on, I actually enjoy grouping and actually wish there were more incentives to, but on the other hand I do also enjoy soloing at times especially when it's late and server is empty and I can make the adventure my own.

What I don't like is being forced or lumped into doing one or the other.

^This. I've never been able figure why the devs always take the approach which ends up isolating, separating, or restricting players and groups. The "off to your corner" approach just doesn't sit well with me.

Bravo, someone in the thread gets it.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

The point of an online fame is to play with others. The game should strongly encourage group play always.

Which if you actually read the first couple of lines of my post you'll actually see I did say that, but to encourage people to group up in a zone is one thing... being forced to group up before you can do anything at all in a zone is something else.

I mean having to have a 4 man group ready before you did any quests in craglorn didn't encourage nobody to group up, people simply didn't touch quests and started grinding at anomalies instead.

Audigy

They do this because of the uproar lately.

For them VR zones were the compromise, you could solo or group. As a group world bosses were your goal, as a solo the average quests and solo dungeons.

This however did not work, for me its not important who ruined that idea - fact is, the constant whining is what caused the nerf and now they will split content even more.

They give us a solo zone and a group zone, they give us raids and most likely daily quests. While I don't like this at all and would prefer the old VR system with everyone in one zone, it sadly is how it is.

In the end I am happy that they at least give a solo zone and a group zone, there are games like WOW which focus purely on group or LOTRO which purely on solo.

DeLindsay

infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »

After reading on reddit about Wrothgar why do we have to wait until after two group only zones are released for any solo content? And more to the point why does there seem to be a policy of splitting up the player base depending on how they want to play socially?

I think the better question to ask is WHO CARES. Seriously folks, ever since the Quakecon video you'd swear the sky is falling and Armageddon is at our doorstep. We have no idea how any of the things mentioned will play out once they're live but that sure hasn't stopped the flood of "OMG ZoS just ruined ESO" type threads about everything from that video. Chill out, take a nap, go outside and breathe actual fresh air. The sky is not falling, the game is not ending, the Earth is still spinning.

Anastasia

infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »

Just to be clear before you read on, I actually enjoy grouping and actually wish there were more incentives to, but on the other hand I do also enjoy soloing at times especially when it's late and server is empty and I can make the adventure my own.

What I don't like is being forced or lumped into doing one or the other.

After reading on reddit about Wrothgar why do we have to wait until after two group only zones are released for any solo content? And more to the point why does there seem to be a policy of splitting up the player base depending on how they want to play socially?

I mean after craglorn you'd think creating zones where both solo/duo and group play could co-exist would be the better option, instead people who don't want to be forced into groups for every little thing have to wait until at least two major updates for any content to be dumped in what seems like a second rate zone just for soloers while everyone else gets regular adventure zones.

It's not only a lousy policy catering for both groups separately but for the company it must be a huge waste of development time and costs, why not kill two birds with the same stone and create areas that cater for all rather than saying if you group you have to go to this zone or if you solo you have to go here....

I mean unless half the dev team happen to be the "you need to group to tie your shoe laces" type what possible reason could there be to divide people up like this?

---

*Digs through her old posts...its here somewhere...ah yes:

>>>**Well, at least no one is asking for nerfs/err all solo/all the time including endgame ...yet**<<<

Jumped the gun a bit didn't I?

I swear I used the same logic as you in your current post (about not delineating either group for PvE, soloers OR those who enjoy grouping)...weeks ago. I brought that up along with pointing out that of course soloer's deserve some sort of dual path alongside, NOT INSTEAD OF those who enjoy and see the value of grouping for enough time that players can get equipped and be good to go when reaching endgame. Thats why the dev's original vision for TESO and its Vet content should have been corrected but not deleted.

I and others hoped and expected that ZOS would make that Vet+ content nerf the 'tad' they said it was going to be instead of how boldly they actually applied it, and that soloer's deserved to have some good stuff of their own instead of deleting said group-centric areas in V+ 1-10. My posts were met with derision to say the least and I and others were called leet and locusts etc etc etc.

Additionally many, manyyyyy posters who were in support of the wide swath of nerfing in V+ content said that no one would go further and ask for nerfing in actual endgame..pfft we were crazy for intimating that would be one of the consequences of deleting the chance to group up in V+ 1-10...when we said we would love to see more of a group bonus for e x p or better rewards etc INSTEAD of a nerf.

Naw, that wasn't good enough - it was said that would still leave behind those who wanted to solo through all zones at any time they desired to be short-shrifted. Craglorn and its mess were mentioned also, and we tried to clue some in to the fact that they would be having to deal with the GAME's requirements if they decided they wanted to mix it up and enter endgame (*the trials etc). To no avail, we discussed boss rage timers, dps minimums to get past certain bosses etc. But we heard cries of 'Oh, those players are all exploiters anyhow - they zoomed up to V+12 in some shady way, and when we get there, how dare they question our unique builds and not let us in their exclusive lil groups'. Omfg.

SO...this is what we got. A nerfed space of the game supposedly because after all that is 'leveling content'. I say its consequential to endgame and now soloer's are knocking on the doors after V+ 10 with a desire for yet more soloing...and wanting it sooner.

o-0

tawnyshadowb14_ESO

Here is an Idea, why not do like other games have done and give an option on whether to do things at various dificulties. Such as DDO where you can do a Quest on Solo, Normal, Hard or Elite.

theyancey

When you are done with current solo just suspend your sub until new content is released. It is what I plan to do.

Elember

Honestly I believe that the folks at ZOS are not talented enough to be able to deliver content that is single player, duo player, and group player content because if they were then we would be able to duo and group on ALL quests in the game and experience the story from single, duo, and group experiences.

Even SWTOR has better group/multiplayer content then ESO and it was touted as being a solo game from day one. So that leaves ESO lacking big time in ever being able to cater to anything but one or the other and NEVER all types of play styles.

Enkil

Most of the PvE game is basically solo it seems.. other than instanced dungeons & Craglorn. PvP can be either...

For me personally, when I am doing PvE, I prefer to play solo. I want to take my time and listen to the voice acting and just chill. Maybe challenge myself and learn how to manage on my own.

When I am in a group, i prefer to be the main healer and I don't want a lot of dialog or story-based questing because I will miss out on those elements when others move ahead faster or accidentally agro a mob and I have to drop it and start healing.

These things should be segregated experiences.... I prefer it like that. It doesn't keep me segregated from others when I want to group... I'm still same level as them.... I just need to swap out my hotbar options.

Nox_Aeterna

theyancey wrote: »

When you are done with current solo just suspend your sub until new content is released. It is what I plan to do.

Now that they made clear with the steam launch and dog that some content will be only for a few players and we get nothing anyway , im reaching the same conclusion you did.

I was keeping my sub up just in case there was an event since i would not want to lose something , not much to it anymore.

UPrime

On a per zone basis, there are 2 zones that are group based, plus dungeons. every thing else is solo based. They need more group content so yes, solo players should wait.

infraction2008b16_ESO

Enkil wrote: »

Most of the PvE game is basically solo it seems.. other than instanced dungeons & Craglorn. PvP can be either...

UPrime wrote: »

On a per zone basis, there are 2 zones that are group based, plus dungeons. every thing else is solo based. They need more group content so yes, solo players should wait.

Just because most of the content up to level cap is soloable doesn't mean the developer shouldn't give any solo path at all at level cap. Of course the endgame content should be group focused but not having anything even something as basic as dailies to do solo at level cap 4 months in is kind of lame.

Enkil

The dev's said they made a false assumption and misstep by trying to "encourage" everyone to group. It's going to take time for them to right the ship which they are clearly doing with a new adventure zone designed for solo play.

However, I disagree with your original premise that a zone should/could simultaneously be both group and solo based. If there is a dialog heavy story, I prefer to play that solo. I want to get lost in the story, on my own, without worrying about a group. If it's a group zone, I really just want to kill mobs and gain XP/loot with far more intermittent dialog and story.

Audigy

I like it a lot if I am in a zone and specific encounters such as world bosses or events are for groups. WOW did this well at release also SWTOR and ya also ESO.

Not sure why everything must be either solo or group, mixing it up was always better in my opinion especially since ESO is such a group friendly game where you can play with pretty much everyone you see without the hassle of asking for invites and stuff.

timidobserver

There is no way to satisfy some people. They whine about no Solo content, so in repsonse, ZOS decides to make them an entire zone dedicated to nothing but soloing. Okay, now they are going to complain about being separated from group content.

Kos

timidobserver wrote: »

There is no way to satisfy some people. They whine about no Solo content, so in repsonse, ZOS decides to make them an entire zone dedicated to nothing but soloing. Okay, now they are going to complain about being separated from group content.

Exactly.
I don't even understand why are people whining about separation when they don't mind openly criticizing each other in the forums in other words they are separating themselves from the other group. There clearly is a group of people who think the content was too hard and the group who prefers more difficult content. Quit complaining already.

infraction2008b16_ESO

Enkil wrote: »

The dev's said they made a false assumption and misstep by trying to "encourage" everyone to group. It's going to take time for them to right the ship which they are clearly doing with a new adventure zone designed for solo play.

However, I disagree with your original premise that a zone should/could simultaneously be both group and solo based. If there is a dialog heavy story, I prefer to play that solo. I want to get lost in the story, on my own, without worrying about a group. If it's a group zone, I really just want to kill mobs and gain XP/loot with far more intermittent dialog and story.

My main issue with what we got at the moment is what they've done with craglorn, all the quests are story based but require a 4 man T/H/2DD setup even the main quest chain which is probably the worst offender in regards to actually finding a group for. I expected to go into craglorn and explore the area as you would pre-craglorn, find people doing the same and group up them to do things such as quests but no, the masses generally steer clear of the quests and just grind until they hit VR12 so they can put on their legendary robes/staff and jump into trials with no interest in any of the open world content.

The simple fix for that and to get people actually interested in the open world stuff would be to make the quests solo/duo balanced and various delve instances public. But you'd all be up in arms if I made that suggestion despite the fact that as balanced for 4 man as it stands now nobody touches them.

I actually don't think they should rebalance craglorn though as they would break a lot, I just used that as an example. However they should see that they were wrong in making things like quests including the whole main quest chain a group only endeavour and take that lesson at heart when balancing the new areas.

Enkil

infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »

I expected to go into craglorn and explore the area as you would pre-craglorn, find people doing the same and group up them to do things such as quests but no, the masses generally steer clear of the quests and just grind...

Haven't stepped foot in Craglorn other than a few failed attempts to level before they nerfed anomalies so I cannot really comment on any content there.

However, what you said above underscores my previous point:

• Group zones should be designed for grinding, gaining loot, etc.
• Group zones should NOT contain a lot of dialog
• Solo zones should be where the story is....

Trying to put too much story and dialog into a group zone or even a group-only dungeon is a futile waste of dev resources.

There are ways to compensate for this in a dungeon like in Banish Cells vet group dungeon, the antagonist speaks to the entire group in a deep ghostly voice as they move through the dungeon. That would never be practical for an overworld zone.

infraction2008b16_ESO

Kos wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

There is no way to satisfy some people. They whine about no Solo content, so in repsonse, ZOS decides to make them an entire zone dedicated to nothing but soloing. Okay, now they are going to complain about being separated from group content.

Exactly.
I don't even understand why are people whining about separation when they don't mind openly criticizing each other in the forums in other words they are separating themselves from the other group. There clearly is a group of people who think the content was too hard and the group who prefers more difficult content. Quit complaining already.

No I don't think the content is too hard, I just prefer if endgame had more to it then grinding to VR12 then jumping into trials with a dress and a stick holding block while spamming impulse while pretending you are actually good at MMO's.

Laura

I'll never understand solo in a group game. Just seems so counter intuitive.

You sacrifice so many things for the game to balance and work well with other players just so you can play by yourself?


all that said I actually agree with the OP. Whatever keeps more people subbed and funding the game.

Nox_Aeterna

Enkil wrote: »

infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »

I expected to go into craglorn and explore the area as you would pre-craglorn, find people doing the same and group up them to do things such as quests but no, the masses generally steer clear of the quests and just grind...

Haven't stepped foot in Craglorn other than a few failed attempts to level before they nerfed anomalies so I cannot really comment on any content there.

However, what you said above underscores my previous point:

• Group zones should be designed for grinding, gaining loot, etc.
• Group zones should NOT contain a lot of dialog
• Solo zones should be where the story is....

Trying to put too much story and dialog into a group zone or even a group-only dungeon is a futile waste of dev resources.

hehehe , it is funny cause the NPCs in dungeons actually talk and all.

It is all about skipping it in there , it is funny cause you wonder what the hell is happening.

UPrime

infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »

Just because most of the content up to level cap is soloable doesn't mean the developer shouldn't give any solo path at all at level cap. Of course the endgame content should be group focused but not having anything even something as basic as dailies to do solo at level cap 4 months in is kind of lame.

That I agree with. Except that as soon as they deploy the champion system replacing the Vet system, everybody will be lvl 50 so that will be the case. At that point you just need xp to progress and doesn't matter where you get it. Be it solo content, group content or pvp.

Enkil

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Enkil wrote: »

infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »

I expected to go into craglorn and explore the area as you would pre-craglorn, find people doing the same and group up them to do things such as quests but no, the masses generally steer clear of the quests and just grind...

Haven't stepped foot in Craglorn other than a few failed attempts to level before they nerfed anomalies so I cannot really comment on any content there.

However, what you said above underscores my previous point:

• Group zones should be designed for grinding, gaining loot, etc.
• Group zones should NOT contain a lot of dialog
• Solo zones should be where the story is....

Trying to put too much story and dialog into a group zone or even a group-only dungeon is a futile waste of dev resources.

hehehe , it is funny cause the NPCs in dungeons actually talk and all.

It is all about skipping it in there , it is funny cause you wonder what the hell is happening.

Exactly.. and you know what happens when you're the healer and try to listen to that? You get bitched at because others just clicked through it, started killing the next mobs along the path and died without any heals.. I still don't know the story in the majority of the dungeons....

Ser Lobo

Adventure Zones can be advertised as end-game content, to go along with Trials, Cyrodiil, the new Arena, and Veteran Dungeons. Every game needs a healthy supply to encourage grouping, player interaction, guild competition, and socialization. These are founding principles that MMO's rely upon, and many (I'm hesitant to say most, but I wouldn't doubt if it wasn't the vast majority) players require to stay subscribed to an MMO for longer than the first month.

Yet there is still that element of solo play in many MMO's. Right now, especially with the veteran zone difficulty reductions, ALL leveling content between 1-VR10 is solo (sometimes required solo). All guild lines and solo dungeons are also solo only. And for many of us, even world bosses and dolmens, as well as public group dungeons, have become solo-able.

It seems to me that the vast majority of the developed content (not player generated, which is PvP) of the game is currently focused on solo play. Spending the first six months or so adding content for group players seems like a good balance.



Of course, they could resolve this further by introducing Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild content with that new Murkmire zone, which would be considered solo content. Adding more to the Mages and Fighters Guilds, including adding a radiant quest system, could also be considered solo content. And I've suggested they add at least three new quests a month to existing zones, just to increase diversity and options.

But it goes back to this: right now, the game is solo-heavy. It NEEDS more group content, especially well-designed and focused group content.

arkansas_ESO

I honestly don't understand the desire to play solo in a massively multiplayer online game. The main appeal of a MMO is that it's got a lot of other people playing alongside with you in your world. Why play a multiplayer game if you want a singleplayer experience?