Enlightenment Bonus- Say It Ain't So-ooo-oooo

nerevarine1138

According to the recent Paul Sage interview, they're planning on adding an "Enlightenment" bonus with the introduction of the Champion system. This would apparently function like the "rested" bonus in games like WoW, where experience gain is increased after you've been logged out for a while.

This is a terrible idea.

If you do most of the content in a zone, you already outlevel most of the game as you progress. Please stop providing players with the means to skip over even more content, because all it results in is more whining about the lack of content. Leveling should be part of the game, and as it stands in ESO, it currently is. Don't fall in line with the other MMOs on the market and make leveling some kind of chore that people have to complete in order to reach endgame content.

twev

I don't always disagree with you.

This is one of those 'two thumbs up' posts.

onlinegamer1

This is a marketing technique, not a game-play/balance issue. Players who "stop playing" (for whatever reason) are given encouragement to "log back in to play" again, thus retaining subscribers.

You won't change their mind on this.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

The 'champion' system as described in that small section in Reddit sounds somewhat like the PA system in Rift a non-level-based character progression system; I know others MMOs have similar types of systems.

Don't see how that equates to zone leveling at all.

nerevarine1138

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

This is a marketing technique, not a game-play/balance issue. Players who "stop playing" (for whatever reason) are given encouragement to "log back in to play" again, thus retaining subscribers.

You won't change their mind on this.

I disagree with that reasoning. Every game that I've seen this in caps the amount of bonus experience you can get at a certain point. It's not like I earned permanent double-xp after taking a long sabbatical from WoW. But I do earn double-xp by logging off in town for the week.

The "Baby Come Back" style of incentives are always tied to reactivating accounts. They don't have anything to do with a bonus for active players.

Hilgara

Disagree. let people reach v12 by the time they finish V10 zone. Then the group content of Crag is optional not mandatory

nerevarine1138

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

The 'champion' system as described in that small section in Reddit sounds somewhat like the PA system in Rift a non-level-based character progression system; I know others MMOs have similar types of systems.

Don't see how that equates to zone leveling at all.

I hope that you're correct and that I'm misinterpreting the interview. If it only applies to the new Champion system (which I don't have a problem with), then I think it's probably fine. But I read it as a bonus to xp-gain at all levels. So leveling 1-50 would be greatly quickened.

Hilgara wrote: »

Disagree. let people reach v12 by the time they finish V10 zone. Then the group content of Crag is optional not mandatory

I think you're having a different debate. This is about a feature that is set to go live when the VR system is completely eliminated.

Hilgara

Nope same debate. Its about out levelling content. I think this is a good thing. If you diligently do all the content you should be able to outlevel it to the point where you reach max level through solo content

onlinegamer1

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

This is a marketing technique, not a game-play/balance issue. Players who "stop playing" (for whatever reason) are given encouragement to "log back in to play" again, thus retaining subscribers.

You won't change their mind on this.

I disagree with that reasoning. Every game that I've seen this in caps the amount of bonus experience you can get at a certain point. It's not like I earned permanent double-xp after taking a long sabbatical from WoW. But I do earn double-xp by logging off in town for the week.

The "Baby Come Back" style of incentives are always tied to reactivating accounts. They don't have anything to do with a bonus for active players.

Incorrect.

A player quits, usually, when they stop playing first. After extended periods of "not playing", they realize they don't want to anymore, and then unsubscribe.

Having a constant system of "its ok to take a break, but then, you want to log in again to get that bonus again" ensure that players don't quit after periods of burn out.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I hope that you're correct and that I'm misinterpreting the interview. If it only applies to the new Champion system (which I don't have a problem with), then I think it's probably fine. But I read it as a bonus to xp-gain at all levels. So leveling 1-50 would be greatly quickened.

I agree it's unclear but I took my view based on the context of Enlightenment being mentioned in the Champion section and in that respect I think it's probably important.

IF my PA analogy is right, Trion's experience was that early adopters of PA ended up with a large advantage over those that came after or couldn't play 24/7 when it came to horizontal progression.

OTOH, I may be entirely wrong and this is just a load of waffle, time will tell.

Enodoc

Wait, does this "Enlightenment" basically give people more experience for not playing? That makes no sense at all.

mutharex

I'd be more worried about the rest of things Sage hinted:

- arenas
- duels
- gearscore
- gear treadmill
- dropping devs pants at a playerbase whim

It's over guys, World of Tesocraft is coming

http://dulfy.net/2014/07/12/eso-paul-sage-the-road-ahead-qa-transcript/

BBSooner

I hope it's only for champion levels. All of my characters (4) have made it through 1-50 content while staying 2-3 levels over the content I'm doing. There's no reason for this bonus to effect regular leveling, and infact will probably make questing feel even more trivial. This bonus would be kind of disappointing.

Enodoc

mutharex wrote: »

I'd be more worried about the rest of things Sage hinted:

- arenas
- duels
- gearscore
- gear treadmill
- dropping devs pants at a playerbase whim

It's over guys, World of Tesocraft is coming

http://dulfy.net/2014/07/12/eso-paul-sage-the-road-ahead-qa-transcript/

- arenas: meh
- duels: ok, I guess
- gearscore: what's that? doesn't sound very good
- gear treadmill: no thanks
- no comment

mutharex

Enodoc wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

I'd be more worried about the rest of things Sage hinted:

- arenas
- duels
- gearscore
- gear treadmill
- dropping devs pants at a playerbase whim

It's over guys, World of Tesocraft is coming

http://dulfy.net/2014/07/12/eso-paul-sage-the-road-ahead-qa-transcript/

- arenas: meh
- duels: ok, I guess
- gearscore: what's that? doesn't sound very good
- gear treadmill: no thanks
- no comment

gearscore is a system used in WoW to determine if you are l33t enough to participate to raids or heroic dungeons
http://www.wowwiki.com/Gear_score

this from Sage's interview:
"In the Champion system, we will have more gear introduced by seasons where there is no level requirement. They will be harder to get. Season 8 gear will be more powerful than season 7 gear for example but the season 7 gear will be more readily available. There will be a solution for crafting as well.
Champion rating – Look at your gear as well as all your points in the champion system to see if you can take on a certain content or not. The Champion rating will be introducing some divide in the community but it based more on gear rather than your points to make it easier to catch up. "

the whole interviews is a mess of bad news and incoming nightmares

Enodoc

mutharex wrote: »

gearscore is a system used in WoW to determine if you are l33t enough to participate to raids or heroic dungeons
http://www.wowwiki.com/Gear_score

this from Sage's interview:
"In the Champion system, we will have more gear introduced by seasons where there is no level requirement. They will be harder to get. Season 8 gear will be more powerful than season 7 gear for example but the season 7 gear will be more readily available. There will be a solution for crafting as well.
Champion rating – Look at your gear as well as all your points in the champion system to see if you can take on a certain content or not. The Champion rating will be introducing some divide in the community but it based more on gear rather than your points to make it easier to catch up. "

the whole interviews is a mess of bad news and incoming nightmares

Oh I see, so it's like a level requirement but based on gear instead of experience? I'd rather have true experience-based levels than a gear-based "rating".

mutharex

Enodoc wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

gearscore is a system used in WoW to determine if you are l33t enough to participate to raids or heroic dungeons
http://www.wowwiki.com/Gear_score

this from Sage's interview:
"In the Champion system, we will have more gear introduced by seasons where there is no level requirement. They will be harder to get. Season 8 gear will be more powerful than season 7 gear for example but the season 7 gear will be more readily available. There will be a solution for crafting as well.
Champion rating – Look at your gear as well as all your points in the champion system to see if you can take on a certain content or not. The Champion rating will be introducing some divide in the community but it based more on gear rather than your points to make it easier to catch up. "

the whole interviews is a mess of bad news and incoming nightmares

Oh I see, so it's like a level requirement but based on gear instead of experience? I'd rather have true experience-based levels than a gear-based "rating".

That's how it works in WoW. Reading Sage's words, seems similar.
But the whole paragraph stinks of gear treadmill and gating.

If you read the whole thing is incredibly depressing

Selique

I'm looking forward to a bit of Exp increase after being logged out. I don't get to play as much as a lot of people, and it will make it easier for me to get to the point where many have been for months now. I'll finally be able to level enough with my limited time in order to participate in end game activities.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

mutharex wrote: »

gearscore is a system used in WoW to determine if you are l33t enough to participate to raids or heroic dungeons
http://www.wowwiki.com/Gear_score

this from Sage's interview:
"In the Champion system, we will have more gear introduced by seasons where there is no level requirement. They will be harder to get. Season 8 gear will be more powerful than season 7 gear for example but the season 7 gear will be more readily available. There will be a solution for crafting as well.
Champion rating – Look at your gear as well as all your points in the champion system to see if you can take on a certain content or not. The Champion rating will be introducing some divide in the community but it based more on gear rather than your points to make it easier to catch up. "

the whole interviews is a mess of bad news and incoming nightmares

Please explain it accurately and without your biased views.

@Enodoc GEARSCORE is a WOW add-on, and just like ESO add-ons has no involvement from Blizzard. It's a system that accesses your 'iLevel' (item level, each piece of gear has an iLevel and Gearscore shows other players your average iLevel).

It's abused by elitist jerks to decide who is and isn't to be allowed to join their parties.

In fact the game does make use of your iLevel and only allows you to enter some dungeons if you're above a threshold. Blizzard do this on the basis if your gear isn't good enough you'll not be viable.

FFXIV has a similar system, it doesn't have Gearscore but nonetheless players' iLevel is publicly available so abuse is there too.

ONLY if ZOS make the player's 'champ level' (whatever it is) publicly available will the elitists be able to abuse it. Per se it's a good means to ensure everyone entering high-level content is geared appropriately so that some can't leech off others.

Note also that ESO has another mechanic in common with WOW: Achievements.

In WOW you're expected to have a certain number of achievements and some elitists will demand you have certain achievements before you can join them .. ESO has those elitists too, as another thread posted in the last few days shows.

mutharex

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

gearscore is a system used in WoW to determine if you are l33t enough to participate to raids or heroic dungeons
http://www.wowwiki.com/Gear_score

this from Sage's interview:
"In the Champion system, we will have more gear introduced by seasons where there is no level requirement. They will be harder to get. Season 8 gear will be more powerful than season 7 gear for example but the season 7 gear will be more readily available. There will be a solution for crafting as well.
Champion rating – Look at your gear as well as all your points in the champion system to see if you can take on a certain content or not. The Champion rating will be introducing some divide in the community but it based more on gear rather than your points to make it easier to catch up. "

the whole interviews is a mess of bad news and incoming nightmares

Please explain it accurately and without your biased views.

@Enodoc GEARSCORE is a WOW add-on, and just like ESO add-ons has no involvement from Blizzard. It's a system that accesses your 'iLevel' (item level, each piece of gear has an iLevel and Gearscore shows other players your average iLevel).

It's abused by elitist jerks to decide who is and isn't to be allowed to join their parties.

In fact the game does make use of your iLevel and only allows you to enter some dungeons if you're above a threshold. Blizzard do this on the basis if your gear isn't good enough you'll not be viable.

FFXIV has a similar system, it doesn't have Gearscore but nonetheless players' iLevel is publicly available so abuse if there too.

ONLY if ZOS make the player's 'champ level' (whatever it is) publicly available will the elitists be able to abuse it. Per se it's a good means to ensure everyone entering high-level content is geared appropriately so that some can't leech off others.

Biased? Have you ever seen a similar system NOT being abused by elitist jerks?
Coz I haven't

Falmer

I agree here. As an EQ veteran, every modern game levels at lightning speed normally. If anything they should cut the experience gain in half across the game.

Enodoc

mutharex wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

gearscore is a system used in WoW to determine if you are l33t enough to participate to raids or heroic dungeons
http://www.wowwiki.com/Gear_score

this from Sage's interview:
"In the Champion system, we will have more gear introduced by seasons where there is no level requirement. They will be harder to get. Season 8 gear will be more powerful than season 7 gear for example but the season 7 gear will be more readily available. There will be a solution for crafting as well.
Champion rating – Look at your gear as well as all your points in the champion system to see if you can take on a certain content or not. The Champion rating will be introducing some divide in the community but it based more on gear rather than your points to make it easier to catch up. "

the whole interviews is a mess of bad news and incoming nightmares

Please explain it accurately and without your biased views.

@Enodoc GEARSCORE is a WOW add-on, and just like ESO add-ons has no involvement from Blizzard. It's a system that accesses your 'iLevel' (item level, each piece of gear has an iLevel and Gearscore shows other players your average iLevel).

It's abused by elitist jerks to decide who is and isn't to be allowed to join their parties.

In fact the game does make use of your iLevel and only allows you to enter some dungeons if you're above a threshold. Blizzard do this on the basis if your gear isn't good enough you'll not be viable.

FFXIV has a similar system, it doesn't have Gearscore but nonetheless players' iLevel is publicly available so abuse if there too.

ONLY if ZOS make the player's 'champ level' (whatever it is) publicly available will the elitists be able to abuse it. Per se it's a good means to ensure everyone entering high-level content is geared appropriately so that some can't leech off others.

Biased? Have you ever seen a similar system NOT being abused by elitist jerks?
Coz I haven't

Regardless of how it's used by elitists, I think the point still stands that it is introducing a gating based on gear rather than XP. So how does one go about getting this gear? Would it be provided as quest rewards, mob/boss drops? If the method of acquiring the gear is comparable to the method of aquiring XP, gating by gear rather than XP seems arbitrary. But if you gain the gear by some obscure side method, then gating by level makes more sense.

Back to my original question though: does this "Enlightenment" basically give people more XP for not playing? I can't see why people would be rewarded more XP for not playing, putting people that play all the time at a comparative disadvantage, as they have to put more time in for the same reward.

onlinegamer1

Neverwinter has something similar.

Dungeons have a minimum GearScore requirement to enter. If you are too low, you physically cannot go inside. However, the GS requirements are generally considered by players to be BELOW what is really needed to be "viable". Of course, players define "viable" as "cakewalk". So, if you aren't overpowered, you aren't "viable".

Most games with GearScore make it visible. I would suggest to ZoS to diverge from this thinking, and make the ESO score visible ONLY on your character sheet, and not to other players NOR to the API.

That way, if the dungeons/quests/trials/whatever let you in, you are "viable". Period.

kitsinni

With all VR levels going away what does it matter? It takes less than one day of played time to get to 50 which will be top level soon. This just makes it so that you can get champ points when you rest easier. It is something that keeps people coming back to the game instead of feeling like they fell so far behind they will never catch their friends, something the current system does do.

Soloeus

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

According to the recent Paul Sage interview, they're planning on adding an "Enlightenment" bonus with the introduction of the Champion system. This would apparently function like the "rested" bonus in games like WoW, where experience gain is increased after you've been logged out for a while.

This is a terrible idea.

If you do most of the content in a zone, you already outlevel most of the game as you progress. Please stop providing players with the means to skip over even more content, because all it results in is more whining about the lack of content. Leveling should be part of the game, and as it stands in ESO, it currently is. Don't fall in line with the other MMOs on the market and make leveling some kind of chore that people have to complete in order to reach endgame content.

This is one of the few times where when I agree, I feel compelled to say so instead of clicking the button and jumping out. I hate systems where EXP Gain is decreased by time spent.

Mud_Puppy

I agree it doesn't sound good, but we haven't actually seen the mechanics yet.

Solanum

I think it is a good thing.
It allows for those with jobs and busy lives to still make a decent amount of progress while playing. And in no way hurts those who do have the time to play as much as they would like.

And outlevelling a zone?
I for one am happy to choose how much time I spend in a zone rather then feeling obligated to wring it for every last drop of XP before moving on.

Samadhi

I'd like to know how long this bonus takes to activate.

If I sleep or go to work for 8 hours do I get a bonus to my exp the next time I log in?
What is the minimum time required for this bonus, and what is the maximum bonus allowed relative to time?

Audigy

Any type of forced xp boost is bad, as WOW has shown. I kept logging out in the wilds to not get the boost, but every time I came back I had at least a full level skipped

Its a really bad system, but it will come as many gaming companies don't value the content before max level anymore, but only raids and arenas

ZO once said they wont go that way, but the pressure by the vocal minorities was too strong I guess.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

mutharex wrote: »

I'd be more worried about the rest of things Sage hinted:

- arenas
- duels
- gearscore
- gear treadmill
- dropping devs pants at a playerbase whim

It's over guys, World of Tesocraft is coming

http://dulfy.net/2014/07/12/eso-paul-sage-the-road-ahead-qa-transcript/

I'm okay with this.

Arsenic_Touch

mutharex wrote: »

I'd be more worried about the rest of things Sage hinted:

- arenas
- duels
- gearscore
- gear treadmill
- dropping devs pants at a playerbase whim

It's over guys, World of Tesocraft is coming

http://dulfy.net/2014/07/12/eso-paul-sage-the-road-ahead-qa-transcript/

....good responses for the arena.... haha. Well that's the final nail in the coffin for me, the moment they add that shtako they're going to balance around it and ruin the current system. It's evident that they don't give a flying rat's behind from the majority of those that actually take the time to engage them on a daily basis.

They're going to add gearscore.... might as well just let us see other player dps with that nonsense.

Duels aren't a bad thing but the rest? ....the end is nigh.