Kicked from pug trial group for my playstyle...

Valn

Well this is disappointing, I've only attempted trials a few times, and I say attempted because people kept going offline etc, but today was more annoying because I found a good group, but they kicked me for wearing heavy armor + 2h (dps) after we wiped on the 3rd boss.

This was a pug group. The leader was asking for people in zone chat. This wasn't a guild run or world ranking world first or whatever. This was a casual pug group.

I'm not blaming the group leader, he wanted to complete the trial. But now I'm forced to choose a certain playstyle.

Thank you Zenimax, for excluding me because i'm not allowed to play the way I want.

edit: saw this come up and chuckled

Fairydragon3

Don't give up there are people like this in all games, some just prefer to group with certain types of people. these guys seem like your typical Elitist jerk, where they want only specs that can benefit them the most. IMO if they were that good themselves they should have been able to carry you, but most likely they were after the lowest time possible

Vuron

This scenario is only going to become more common since the VR nerf. You're going to have people getting through VR content without really learning how to play an optimal build or how to adjust their builds for group content.

Don't blame other people because they don't want to carry you. Unfortunately, wearing heavy armor and wielding a 2h in trials would most likely mean they'd have to carry you. You might be the exception, but many won't be.

This comes down to the mechanics of the trials and not really the group leaders. These trials require very specific tactics and certain classes/builds just don't fit. This is a development issue.

Ser Lobo

This is one of the prime issues with 'end game' PvE in any game. Raid groups players can be so hateful and close-minded. Really, some of the worst in gaming, period.

In PvP they call you a noob and kill you, but in reality, they NEED you to play cause your participation is vital to what PvP is. PvP is all about players playing together.

Competitive PvE, on the other hand, seems to support this type of player too much. They don't want to play *with* you, cause you're not optimal enough.

This is why I will generally only do raids with known groups, and will ignore that community and their opinion outright. I don't think their breed of min-maxing helps the game, or the playerbase, at all. They spend so much time complaining about class balance and optimal builds and NPC layout/mechanics, trying to get the game changed over and over again for 1% of the overall content.

Good luck, Op. Do like me. Don't pug. Don't listen to raiders. And don't let their dirty superiority complex bring you down. PvP instead. We love to have you! (maybe on the opposing team, but still!)

nanaya

LFG SoO flex 580+, no priests

There are always been that kind of people in MMO, just ignore them. And find a good guild.

Falmer

You can't blame Zenimax for idiot players. They exist regardless. There is nothing wrong with your playstyle or build.

You just ran into dumb people. This is expected from time to time in any multiplayer game. When people ask for group members in chat, just ask them first... are you a min/maxer or are you a good person?

TaffyIX

I echo the sentiments above.
Your issue can be solved by joining a friendly guild that suits your playstyle.

Ser Lobo

Falmer wrote: »

You can't blame Zenimax for idiot players. They exist regardless. There is nothing wrong with your playstyle or build.

You just ran into dumb people. This is expected from time to time in any multiplayer game. When people ask for group members in chat, just ask them first... are you a min/maxer or are you a good person?

Some believe the two aren't mutually exclusive, but I don't think I've ever met a min-maxer who could stand other players not playing 'optimally.' Their priority is simply performance. Mine has always been backstory. The two don't always meet eye to eye.

Baphomet

Don't forget about the flexibility of this game though. My main has all armor lines and four different weapon lines level to 50 so I can set up the character in many different ways depending on the situation.

It's not a solution to the problem but it sure goes a long way.

grimsfield

I would have kicked you too... Some things just don't work well in this game atm, unfortunately. You really should respec... and it would be wise to listen to people who offer advice.

Alephen

i will say one nice thing about that person: they took the time to at least explain why.

sucks that there are certain stupidly OP builds that cause people to push everyone into them.

purple-magicb16_ESO

I don't understand the point of asking for players in zone chat if you want something specific cause you're gonna get random players. This is what guilds are for. They should outline their criteria and say if u fit this then join us. You'll always find people that take the game waaay too seriously and need to get out more. I don't worry about them. I have no interest in becoming emporer either. IMO its a contest to see whose the most unemployed. Lol! Anyway my point being don't worry about these kinds of people, there are plenty of others who just want to enjoy and have fun. GLHF.

Soloeus

Valn wrote: »

Well this is disappointing, I've only attempted trials a few times, and I say attempted because people kept going offline etc, but today was more annoying because I found a good group, but they kicked me for wearing heavy armor + 2h.

This was a pug group. The leader was asking for people in zone chat. This wasn't a guild run or world ranking world first or whatever. This was a casual pug group.

I'm not blaming the group leader, he wanted to complete the trial. But now I'm forced to choose a certain playstyle.

Nice one Zenimax.

The fault lies on elitism and jerky players. Nobody has the right to tell you what to use. You should find a different group to play with. This also isn't a casual pug group, they seem too demanding and needy.

I would also suggest that this doesn't normally stimulate "Improve Heavy Armor and Melee Combat" it turns into "Make everything else as bad as Heavy Armor and Melee Combat."

Fleymark

Find non-turds to group with. Having not gotten to that level, was the issue not being able to finish the trial with you, or trying to get a certain time on the leader boards? One is on zenimax. The other is on the group of jackssses you wound up with. If the latter, what kind of a bunch of poons /zones for a pickup group then demands optimal builds? Of you're so uber, surely you're in a guild of ubers that deserve one another, no?

That said, the day this happens to me will likely be the last day my credit card is authorized for this game's subscription.

Games been live for over 3 months. They need to balance the classes and builds already. I'm not talking perfection for every build permutation. Just simple basic balance between stamina and magicka, melee and casting.

WTF is the hold up? Besides performance issues there should be NO other priority. Be patient and pay sub fees for another 3 months, 6, a year while we Jack around add new content, put junk loot in crates, etc, etc and everything ELSE imaginable except fix HALF the classes and builds in the game?

It's becoming a complete joke. Stop farting around with junk loot in crates, interior lighting and all manner of other trivial crap and fix the core basic combat balance of your game. It's ridiculous it has taken this long.

Ser Lobo

grimsfield wrote: »

I would have kicked you too... Some things just don't work well in this game atm, unfortunately. You really should respec... and it would be wise to listen to people who offer advice.

@Grimsfield is right, op. You just aren't good enough to play with that group. You should listen to them tell you how to play your game. I mean, I'm sure that group gave you enough time to show them that you know how to play, right? And didn't just assume that, because you were using non-approved gear combo's, you suck?

Because that's a very healthy mindset. Doesn't sound superior and elitist at all.

jambam817_ESO

grimsfield wrote: »

I would have kicked you too... Some things just don't work well in this game atm, unfortunately. You really should respec... and it would be wise to listen to people who offer advice.

Jerk.

This is why i re-rolled to non vet content once i hit VR2 about 2 weeks ago.
I'm a Sorc, 2handed in medium/light with Bound Armaments and Storm DPS AoEs and some CC. I'm sure I'd get kicked too.

killedbyping

Raid leader have a point there. Even if it pug group there is no reason to waste time trying when you sure you will fail because your DD's doing lousy dps.

Ofc the situation with Heavy/Medium armor and weapon skills in general are bad, but i would do the same.

Anyways, Raids are not just some random junk dungeon, if you want to participate, you have to be properly skilled (use proper skills) and geared.
Even those who use Light Armor and Staffs actualy have to replace atleast their skills during same Trial.

It is not about staffs or weapons, Nobody actualy using any skills of Light or Destro stuff for DPS (besides Impusle for AOE trashes). You can actualy use DW, but you still have to wear Light Armor and Use your Class skills for DPS, not weapon skills which just dont do any dps.

P.S. Didint tryed it myself, but Spamming Flying daggers with DW should yield some decent DPS with that cost reduction of stamina skills now.

kherzaheb17_ESO

in PvE one of you mate is not doing so good at dps , that means other dps need to spend much more magicka then usual. So that req to fixed dps count or higher.

When i am doing trials with my guild , i let them see their dps on count boss , im trying to explain how should they run on trials and their rotation.After that we dont have any problems on dps side.

for stamina build users , heavy armour and close range weapons is bad combination.You can choose medium armor or close range combat on PvE trials.Thats all.Otherwise you cant gain good critical strike chance with heavy and light armour on close range weapons.

kitsinni

To be fair there is a difference between "elitist jerks" and "hateful player" and you need XXX dps in order to complete the objective. You can't blame them for wanting to complete the objective and if that takes a certain dps threshold then it is what it is. I do think zenimax should make it so more playstyles are competitive, but you can't blame the guys in the raid for wanting to be able to beat the boss on a DPS race fight.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Well to be fair since the nerf to VR content was announced, everyome was all, If you are hardcore elitist go do dungeons or trials they are there for you and your challenge leet builds of doom!!!

So now people are shocked that dungeons and trials are filled with elitist.

But i do agree to some extent with the op. To me
You pug you take what you get, that is the fun part. But hey if he is running the group he has a right to kick whoever he wants.

Sharee

Falmer wrote: »

You can't blame Zenimax for idiot players. They exist regardless. There is nothing wrong with your playstyle or build.

Exactly what i wanted to write.

pitdemon_ESO

OMG, how could you not know that 2H and Heavy is 7.3% below optimal DPS?!?!?!

Seriously though, this is why I don't bother with Dungeons/Raids in non-open pvp games. These players are in every PVE mmo across the spectrum, unfortunately.

Vuron

jambam817_ESO wrote: »

grimsfield wrote: »

I would have kicked you too... Some things just don't work well in this game atm, unfortunately. You really should respec... and it would be wise to listen to people who offer advice.

Jerk.

He's not being a jerk, he's being realistic. Most of the people in this thread talking about elitest players, jerks, and idiots have never done a single trial.

The simple fact of the matter is that the trials are designed a certain way and it comes down to a dps check. The OP might be different, but most people wearing heavy armor and wielding a 2h weapon simply aren't effective in trials.

You need a certain amount of sustained dps to beat a trial with a good group, not to mention a pug with little coordination.

If you're using a melee weapon, than you are having to run in and out of range because of boss AoE and other mechanics, which lowers your DPS. If you are wearing heavy armor, than you most likely don't have the resources or the regen to spam skills for 3 straight minutes, which will kill your dps.

Not enough dps=wipe. If you refuse to adjust your build simply because you don't want to, then you can't blame other players for not wanting you in their group.

There are only 2 types of players for trials... those that can help and those that can hurt. Try to be one of the types that can help and you'll be fine.

This is really no different than asking in zone chat for a healer and getting a tank just because he wants to be part of a group.

I think the OP understand this. It is not about the players, it is how the trials were designed.

Huckdabuck

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

I mean, I'm sure that group gave you enough time to show them that you know how to play, right? And didn't just assume that, because you were using non-approved gear combo's, you suck?

Well per the OP, they didn't kick him until they all wiped on the 3rd boss.....I'd say that's plenty of time to gauge someone else's ability. And no...I'm not going to judge either party as I wasn't there but expect the unexpected when running with a pug. If you want a guaranteed spot in a raid....join a guild that runs it ad nauseam and get in line for a spot.

On second thought.....I don't know why but this just looks more like the beginning of a NERF Destro/Restro LA or BUFF melee HA to me......

Jimm_ay

You can't blame a group doing a timed trial - it's timed, you want all the dps you can get.

zmanu

His group, his rules, if everybody in the group would have had bows and giant swords with heavy armour and medium armour and whatnot, It would have been just a giant waste of time because most likely you would not even come close on completing the raid.

I never join pugs, they give me headaches.

Like many have said, join a guild and raid with them, the majority of even the vet dungeons are too hard to complete with random dudes.

Sharee

kitsinni wrote: »

To be fair there is a difference between "elitist jerks" and "hateful player" and you need XXX dps in order to complete the objective. You can't blame them for wanting to complete the objective and if that takes a certain dps threshold then it is what it is. I do think zenimax should make it so more playstyles are competitive, but you can't blame the guys in the raid for wanting to be able to beat the boss on a DPS race fight.

Zenimax does not design encounters in such a way that there is only one possible build to be able to complete it and everything else will fail.

MMO's are designed for the average player, not for the upper 5%.

Sure, there are builds that are better suited for trials and builds that are worse, but that only makes a difference when you are trying to beat a time record. But for normal completion, in a PUG? As long as the group is competent, it should not fail, even when not using the most optimal builds.

Most likely, the group from the OP was just bad, and was looking for an excuse.

Razour

In fairness to ZoS (let's cut them some slack on the day that they (hopefully) fixed the fps issue) it's a little harsh to blame them for this one.

You could maybe argue that issues with balance have contributed to this but even without that you will still always find someone who will have set ideas about what they want in their group and they have every right as the group lead to manage who is and who isn't in that group. Roll with it.

If you don't like that then you always have the option to start your own group up and manage that group as you see fit. Perhaps one day you'll end up kicking someone because they don't fit with your ideas of what the group needs.

Aeratus

The PUG leader wasn't being a jerk. In fact, he took his time to explain it to you, rather than simply kicking you out of the group.

As an extreme illustration, if you prefer to play unarmored with fists and join a trial group, you're going to get kicked for having a sub-par build.

Obviously, 2h + heavy isn't as bad as unarmored with fists, but the idea is still the same.

Fleymark

Vuron wrote: »

This scenario is only going to become more common since the VR nerf. You're going to have people getting through VR content without really learning how to play an optimal build or how to adjust their builds for group content.

Don't blame other people because they don't want to carry you. Unfortunately, wearing heavy armor and wielding a 2h in trials would most likely mean they'd have to carry you. You might be the exception, but many won't be.

This comes down to the mechanics of the trials and not really the group leaders. These trials require very specific tactics and certain classes/builds just don't fit. This is a development issue.

Excellent point.

But, to me, this begs the question...

What drooling F-ing momo at zenimax greenlighted putting this content in the game BEFORE addressing HALF of the builds in the game being unable to do it?

In 15 years of playing MMOs I've seen bugs and imbalances. But I've never seen HALF of a game broken for so long and dev team, like a bunch of clowns, take their sweet arse time fixing it althewhile adding content that makes it WORSE like this one.

Oh, and let's put in a leaderboard ala a first person shooter instead of real meaningful rewards that MMO players actually want, like *gasp* loot, so we can make it worse, still, by appealing to the vanity of the epeen turds optimizing groups for it.

This game is very quickly becoming a cautionary tale for other games. And a complete joke.

Nidwin

Pro is pro.

I'm sure those pros who kicked you out of thar group will have a date with Jessica Alba if they top 3 those stupid leader-boards.
Sure thing, don't you think?

Or may be a chocolate cookie, made by one of our forum mods.
Who knows.