Nerf Hireling Alts!

Soloeus

Esha76 wrote: »

Why OP feels the need to start a thread complaining about how other play their game, which will have no impact on him/her what-so-ever... that's a little scary of the mentality of people today.

It's not like the hirelings work right anyway.... They don't always come in twice a day. And they have been nerfed. In the beginning, those things would come back with legendary mats every other return. I knew that nerf was just a matter of very short time.

OP, do yourself a favor, find something actually worth getting upset about.

1. Every time a "Nerf Sorcerer" thread is made, someone wants to change how I play the game. Yet your gameplay does impact me if you have no need for Commerce because your army of level 5's can bring you 20+ hireling rewards every day, often twice a day.

2. People who level up their hirelings wouldn't really be impacted. Setting aside a developed character for hirelings would still be viable. What wouldn't be viable is making 7 alts at level 5 just to get Hireling 3 on every profession.

This isn't about your supply of Jute, this is about being able to get free Tempering Alloys every other day just with 3 perks.

Soloeus

Rylana wrote: »

OP, why does it matter to you what I do with my account?

Step off.

Every time someone complains "Nerf Sorcerers" they are caring what I do with my account and instead of backing off, my character becomes less effective.

michael21

UNFAIR SUGGESTION! to use your 8 paid for charcaters to all do a craft and have 1 main is fine. Its using them to the way that you prefer. Its not an exploit, its using them to benfit your self as a user most you can. Yes, people make alts and treat them as banks, or crafters(maybe to conserve main toon skill points if they want) or to level them. I think its all equal because they are your toons to use for wast you want to be like in the game. Maybe to get gold and benfeit your main? maybe to use and expireince another type of character.

Soloeus

If you are "using them to craft" that implies they aren't level 5 alts. They have to have the skill points to craft anything worthwhile which means levels. They would also have to develop in other ways such as using Motifs, learning Traits and these things matter.

When "this" type of Crafting Alt is used it doesn't hurt anything. That character is a crafter, great. Lets trade armor traits some time. What does hurt the game is when all you need to do to acquire "rare" items is create a level 5 character with 3 perks in something then log it in 2x/day.

This takes items that should be rare and makes them really easy and effortless to get an infinite supply of. So your alts who "craft" won't be impacted because these characters are actually played.

The characters I am talking about nerfing are usually under level 15 and have all hirelings at 3 because they will Respec the character at level 15 to that. Then the character is never again played, they log in once a day to collect 4 hirelings.

SFBryan18

Here's the real question you need to ask yourself to determine if it is an exploit...

If the devs intended for us to use 8 character slots for inventory and resources, why wouldn't they just give us more inventory and resources on one character and save us the hassle?

I don't want to play the same game eight times just for more inventory. That's so lame! In fact, I think players with less alts deserve more bank space. It's ridiculous that I should have to make random unimportant characters just for their inventory space, and I refuse to do it.

Unused character slots should yield more bank space.

BrassRazoo

Soloeus wrote: »

If you are "using them to craft" that implies they aren't level 5 alts. They have to have the skill points to craft anything worthwhile which means levels. They would also have to develop in other ways such as using Motifs, learning Traits and these things matter.

When "this" type of Crafting Alt is used it doesn't hurt anything. That character is a crafter, great. Lets trade armor traits some time. What does hurt the game is when all you need to do to acquire "rare" items is create a level 5 character with 3 perks in something then log it in 2x/day.

This takes items that should be rare and makes them really easy and effortless to get an infinite supply of. So your alts who "craft" won't be impacted because these characters are actually played.

The characters I am talking about nerfing are usually under level 15 and have all hirelings at 3 because they will Respec the character at level 15 to that. Then the character is never again played, they log in once a day to collect 4 hirelings.

This is just wrong.
I specifically use my alts to receive hireling materials. None of my 7 alts are over level 11 but perhaps have 30 odd skill points.
Those materials I use on my main which is the Level 50 crafter and researcher.
I put the time and effort into both my main and my alts so I could utilise the hireling system to aid me in my crafting.
I AM NOT going to use the time I get to play to farm materials on my VR12 Main, who is my Master Crafter in all disciplines, that is what my alts are for.
If you do not understand this system it does not mean there is something wrong with it.

SFBryan18

BrassRazoo wrote: »

Soloeus wrote: »

If you are "using them to craft" that implies they aren't level 5 alts. They have to have the skill points to craft anything worthwhile which means levels. They would also have to develop in other ways such as using Motifs, learning Traits and these things matter.

When "this" type of Crafting Alt is used it doesn't hurt anything. That character is a crafter, great. Lets trade armor traits some time. What does hurt the game is when all you need to do to acquire "rare" items is create a level 5 character with 3 perks in something then log it in 2x/day.

This takes items that should be rare and makes them really easy and effortless to get an infinite supply of. So your alts who "craft" won't be impacted because these characters are actually played.

The characters I am talking about nerfing are usually under level 15 and have all hirelings at 3 because they will Respec the character at level 15 to that. Then the character is never again played, they log in once a day to collect 4 hirelings.

This is just wrong.
I specifically use my alts to receive hireling materials. None of my 7 alts are over level 11 but perhaps have 30 odd skill points.
Those materials I use on my main which is the Level 50 crater and researcher.
I put the time and effort into both my main and my alts so I could utilise the hireling system to aid me in my crafting.
I AM NOT going to use the time I get to play to farm materials on my VR12 Main, who is my Master Crafter in all disciplines, that is what my alts are for.
If you do not understand this system it does not mean there is something wrong with it.

In a nutshell, the system allows you to farm with alts for the benefit of your main. So basically, your other character slots are making your main slot better because they are giving the main character more resources than he would get on his own. Sounds a lot like you are exploiting the system, unless this is what the devs wanted us to do.

Do you believe they wanted us to farm our alts? I mean, if the game developers want us to farm alternate characters, then there is no problem. I would love to hear a developer give an official answer.

xaraan

I don't think they need to change anything more with alts, the changes they made a couple patches ago was enough IMO.

What they need to do is fix the delivery issues with hirelings. I never consistently get my two deliveries a day and have missed countless deliveries because they can't get it working right. In my latest ticket, they said they know it's an issue they are working on a fix for, but that was it info wise for now.

Kalann_Pander

Soloeus wrote: »

Every time someone complains "Nerf Sorcerers" they are caring what I do with my account and instead of backing off, my character becomes less effective.

Wrong, they are caring about what sorcerors do to their account.
Or ... they are jealous.

Whatever, this isn't really comparable : Sorceror skills are restricted (to sorcerors), whereas Hirelings are open to all characters - you can have them too !

I guess the real reason is :

Soloeus wrote: »

Yet your gameplay does impact me if you have no need for Commerce because your army of level 5's can bring you 20+ hireling rewards every day, often twice a day.

All about money. Really ?! May I say this isn't Elder Traders Online ?

Soloeus wrote: »

This isn't about your supply of Jute, this is about being able to get free Tempering Alloys every other day just with 3 perks.

Not really. With my army of Hirelings (most level 2), I get maybe 1 per week.

I also believe Hirelings are not only WAI, but also satisfactory to the majority of players in their current form. You're beating a dead horse. Do everyone a favour, and move on to something worth complaining about.

SFBryan18 wrote: »

Do you believe they wanted us to farm our alts? I mean, if the game developers want us to farm alternate characters, then there is no problem. I would love to hear a developer give an official answer.

I do believe so, yes.

BrassRazoo

Soloeus wrote: »

This isn't about your supply of Jute, this is about being able to get free Tempering Alloys every other day just with 3 perks.

Do you actually have a level 3 hireling?
You do know you have to level the craft that the hireling delivers for to a minimum of level 32. This is not easy at all. You also need to spend points in the type of material you can refine, so no, not just 3 for the hireling, perhaps another 6 in the type of materials you can use, so 9 skill points in total to get decent deliveries.
Level 3 hirelings do not guarantee yellow.
You are lucky you get 1 yellow every two or three days sometime even more.
It is way quicker put 3 points in extraction chance and just buy stacks of raw materials or farm a low level group dungeon and deconstruct.
Perhaps they should nerf extraction chance as well?

BrassRazoo

SFBryan18 wrote: »

In a nutshell, the system allows you to farm with alts for the benefit of your main. So basically, your other character slots are making your main slot better because they are giving the main character more resources than he would get on his own. Sounds a lot like you are exploiting the system, unless this is what the devs wanted us to do.

Do you believe they wanted us to farm our alts? I mean, if the game developers want us to farm alternate characters, then there is no problem. I would love to hear a developer give an official answer.

It makes no difference if I do it this way or all my alts are crafters or not, which at level 32 with perhaps 10 skill point in each Black, Wood and Cloth, they are anyway.
The only difference is I give all the materials to my main instead of sharing them around my alts. The amounts are exactly the same.

Why don't you just request that only 4 hireling per account?
May as well do the same for bag expansions.
Perhaps only 1 bag per account.
Also better nerf the 1 gold horses I can buy for each toon I created.
I currently have 24 horses and they cost me 24 gold.
Perhaps only one of them as well.

Rylana

Oh shut up already, what I do with my mules/alts is up to me, get the hell out.

Seriously.

edwar368

Malpherian wrote: »

You dont even need to log on those alts once you get that perk, . Mail is account wide you'll receive it on any character (Checked this earlier on my main, logged on him and mail from my alts hireling was in my inbox).

As an OCD crafter I absolutely LOVE this feature.

errr .... This is wrong. You do need to log the alts daily or twice daily to get the mats in the first place. After that it is true that the items are available to any of your chars via the mail system, but to actually generate the mail in the first place, you need to log each alt and receive the mail on that char (and the items are tied to the crafting level of the alt)

kitsinni

What exactly is the problem with an alt getting temporing alloys .. every other day we wish .. but what is the problem that is what you have not been able to express.

First off all gear even sub 50 is able to be upgraded the fact that you want to keep it till VR should not penalize people who don't.

No one is sitting on thousands of these things from hirelings even if they log on every 12 hours to get the mail from 8 hireling alts they just don't come that often. Even if they did what is the problem? Are you trying to corner some market on gold armor and don't want other people to be able to compete? I mean your looking at 56 gold upgrade mats for one set of armor and they are planning to raise the VR level this summer so all that will go in the garbage.

If you want to screw over other people's games at least try to make an argument for WHY this needs to be changed. What problem exists that is messing things up for you?

This game was setup so you don't have to rely on dedicated crafters, it is by far the easiest game to do crafting in to date and everyone is supposed to be able to make and upgrade their own gear. Even with hireling alts people barely have enough mats to upgrade their own gear and if you dare have two roles like tank and DPS forget even coming close.

Zero_Tolerance

OMFG really? How come there are people in the world who think it is an exploit to have alts and log in on them daily to receive some kind of daily reward? This happens in one form or the other in most MMOs.

That stuff about other slots making your main slot better being an exploit? ROFL. Those hot and steamy nights of Minesweeper in your basement did you no good. It's big boys game, we use alts to help mains, mains to help alts and also, it is completely normal and happens in all games....

Unused char slots should be worth bank space... Man, I'm laughing too hard to be able to type any more.....

Fyrakin

Hirelings are tied to your character skill level, mails you receive from hirelings will never give you anything better than your character's hireling could give. Is that an exploit? - No
Is that an issue? - No

Move along. Period.

SFBryan18

The problem I see is that they are encouraging us to create pointless characters to do things that we should be able to do on one character alone. Eight characters so seven of them can carry stuff? Why not just skip all the bull *** and give us the space. For the guy who thinks it's funny because "other MMO's did it", I don't give a *** what they did. This is a new game, and perhaps whatever those games did was just plain stupid. Things get better, and a feature like this is so ridiculous, I refuse to exploit it. And I'm a player who money glitched in GTA5, so it's not the exploit I care about, it's the bull *** waste of time creating pointless characters when I only want the space. It's like all you narrow minded people don't see that the system should just be better and not force us to do this crap.

Inco

I spent a LOT of time on leveling my ALT's Skill's and Character level to get enough skill points to max out hirelings. So what if my ALTS are level 10 and have 40 level crafting... I did the time and effort to level my crafting.

You start paying my SUB... then you can tell me how to play the game.

They already fixed hirelings via MAIL. You get the "Correct" mail now on respective ALTS hirelings and not able to open them all on a main for max rewards. Bad enough we have to LOGIN TWICE a day to collect our mats.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

SFBryan18

Inco wrote: »

You start paying my SUB... then you can tell me how to play the game.

I wonder if the hackers say that too...

Inco

Soloeus wrote: »

The characters I am talking about nerfing are usually under level 15 and have all hirelings at 3 because they will Respec the character at level 15 to that. Then the character is never again played, they log in once a day to collect 4 hirelings.

SO WHAT...

You do realize that in order to get 3/3 hirelings you have to be like level 32+ in that crafting profession to unlock them. That's a lot of Skill Points (11 per profession) and TIME to deconstruct items for those professions. If you want MAX return on materials then you want level 40 and 9/9 in the first row and 3/3 on hirelings. (Yea I do that - I spend the time & the gold to do that)

That is a PERSONAL choice of how to play the game. (I don't want 7 ALT's all VR## - but I want 7 ALT's that can crank out high end mats for my main crafter)

Again... you need to pick a more realistic item to complain about. I heard SORC's are due for another NERF - you should go support that thread instead.

Soloeus

If you don't like the idea, that is fine. However you have no right to bully and insult me with minesweeper basement remarks. You also have no right to make personal attacks against me. You don't know me. The rules of this forum state that you must conduct yourself respectfully.

My suggestion is simple:

Attach the Hireling Rewards to both Character Level AND Skill Level. This would correct all balance issues.

Qyrk

Soloeus wrote: »

If you are "using them to craft" that implies they aren't level 5 alts. They have to have the skill points to craft anything worthwhile which means levels. They would also have to develop in other ways such as using Motifs, learning Traits and these things matter......

The characters I am talking about nerfing are usually under level 15 and have all hirelings at 3 because they will Respec the character at level 15 to that. Then the character is never again played, they log in once a day to collect 4 hirelings.

You don't get it, do you. People can have level 7 or level 10 while being a master crafter - there's enough skill points to get around or they can just go through sky shard hunting.

TL;DR version:
-It still takes time and (possibly money) to get to that crafting level to be able to put points into hireling ability. You cannot say that alt characters do not deserve it because of their character level.
-a lvl 7, with lvl 50 in clothing and with hireling perks can have skill points through sky shard hunting (possibly easier once they reach level 10 for cyrodil). These crafters does not only benefit the main character, but can assist creating (legendary) craft for OTHER players (which can be veteran 12) if you choose to.


Some explanations:
- First of all, to get a hireling 3/3, you have to deconstruct and that needs lots of items/gathering for it to get to that crafting level.
- Because of this, the person is putting energy/effort into that character. At a certain level, they can put points into hireling if they want to because THEY DESERVE IT, they gather and deconstruct and that takes time, and possibly money too. You cannot dictate that a level 7 or level 10 doesn't deserve to have that hireling perk just because they are not a veteran.
- Third thing I would like to mention is being a crafter means you can craft certain items for another player, and if they require the items to be legendary at a certain price, you cannot deny these inferior (as you see it) low level crafters to have legendary tempers available.

With the rate of research traits people are going through, having an alt to distribute evenly the research workload in certain armor/weapon lines is ideal, especially if you want to have all traits researched across various characters in such a short time. This means that having a hireling perk is an option highly worth considering especially if you're crafting something that you're main cannot; having a CHANCE of getting a legendary temper helps creating that specific armor for a v12 (even if you're a low level) gold.

Zero_Tolerance

SFBryan18 wrote: »

The problem I see is that they are encouraging us to create pointless characters to do things that we should be able to do on one character alone. Eight characters so seven of them can carry stuff? Why not just skip all the bull *** and give us the space. For the guy who thinks it's funny because "other MMO's did it", I don't give a *** what they did. This is a new game, and perhaps whatever those games did was just plain stupid. Things get better, and a feature like this is so ridiculous, I refuse to exploit it. And I'm a player who money glitched in GTA5, so it's not the exploit I care about, it's the bull *** waste of time creating pointless characters when I only want the space. It's like all you narrow minded people don't see that the system should just be better and not force us to do this crap.

Aww, so sweet, must be his first game. Didn't learn yet what exploit and feature is either, too bad.
By your amazing logic, everything I killed once should just die next time I'm there, 'cos you know, since I can do it once or hundred times, it is a pointless waste of time to make me fight it again, right? I mean, when I only want the loot, why do I have to repeat same runs, kill same monsters etc. It is all a waste of time.

Seriously though, nothing else to give out about but hirelings? And I'd love this thread to be a troll, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to be.

OkieDokie

I'm sorry, but that's an horrible idea. Nothing personal, it is just a really bad one.

isengrimb16_ESO

Soloeus wrote: »

Esha76 wrote: »

Why OP feels the need to start a thread complaining about how other play their game, which will have no impact on him/her what-so-ever... that's a little scary of the mentality of people today.

It's not like the hirelings work right anyway.... They don't always come in twice a day. And they have been nerfed. In the beginning, those things would come back with legendary mats every other return. I knew that nerf was just a matter of very short time.

OP, do yourself a favor, find something actually worth getting upset about.

1. Every time a "Nerf Sorcerer" thread is made, someone wants to change how I play the game. Yet your gameplay does impact me if you have no need for Commerce because your army of level 5's can bring you 20+ hireling rewards every day, often twice a day.

2. People who level up their hirelings wouldn't really be impacted. Setting aside a developed character for hirelings would still be viable. What wouldn't be viable is making 7 alts at level 5 just to get Hireling 3 on every profession.

This isn't about your supply of Jute, this is about being able to get free Tempering Alloys every other day just with 3 perks.

Cripes, I've got one yellow and one purple upgrade mat from hirelings. They're not game-breaking, and in fact, they're probably the only way to get above-blue quality improvement mats.

I never understood people who whine about "welfare gear" - you still have to grind the points to get the stuff, so that's not "welfare" - "workfare", maybe, but not welfare. I doubt all you perfect snobs with your perfect lives even know the difference. I see very little difference between saving up points for an item, and just wishing to win on the lottery ticket that is RNG for an item to drop off a boss.

And it's not "free", you do have to sacrifice three skill points to get the most benefit out of it.

Soloeus

Zero_Tolerance wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

The problem I see is that they are encouraging us to create pointless characters to do things that we should be able to do on one character alone. Eight characters so seven of them can carry stuff? Why not just skip all the bull *** and give us the space. For the guy who thinks it's funny because "other MMO's did it", I don't give a *** what they did. This is a new game, and perhaps whatever those games did was just plain stupid. Things get better, and a feature like this is so ridiculous, I refuse to exploit it. And I'm a player who money glitched in GTA5, so it's not the exploit I care about, it's the bull *** waste of time creating pointless characters when I only want the space. It's like all you narrow minded people don't see that the system should just be better and not force us to do this crap.

Aww, so sweet, must be his first game. Didn't learn yet what exploit and feature is either, too bad.
By your amazing logic, everything I killed once should just die next time I'm there, 'cos you know, since I can do it once or hundred times, it is a pointless waste of time to make me fight it again, right? I mean, when I only want the loot, why do I have to repeat same runs, kill same monsters etc. It is all a waste of time.

Seriously though, nothing else to give out about but hirelings? And I'd love this thread to be a troll, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to be.

Must be your first game if you think a free farm like this is healthy for the economy of the game. Must also be your first forum you have signed up for. Try reading the rules and you will see something about a code of conduct. Condescending statements like the one you make is akin to bullying and that shows you don't even have basic Civics and Conductivity in social settings.


My idea stands as a good one; if you want your alts to craft for you, great. But that implies PLAYING the character. Playing the character doesn't mean logging it in once a day to get free Rosins, Tempering Alloys and Dreugh Waxes 8x a day every day on characters you never intend to play.

Shiroro

It's a pretty hefty investment to take alts from 12-->32 in crafting and level 3 hirelings = 7 alts worth of level 1-2 hirelings. Why shouldn't someone who blows that much on mats be rewarded?

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

SFBryan18 wrote: »

Using alts purely for resources and space seems a lot like exploiting.

LOL .. okay, if you say so.

SFBryan18

Some of the members here don't deserve a response. No logic, just bull *** because they're afraid they might lose something.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

SFBryan18 wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

Using alts purely for resources and space seems a lot like exploiting.

It's not remotely and by any definition even close to the term exploiting.

So I guess we're going to pull the dictionary out then?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exploitation

<snip fatuously irrelevant dictionary definition>

And this has any relevance to the situation you're calling an exploit .. how?