Crime, Punishment, and Undead/Werewolves.

Araflin

A humble thief's view:
Yus, yer 'onour. I do understand t' crimes I is accused of. I admit t' entering that fellows house, but t' door wasn't locked. I admit t' taking his potato from t' basket by t' door and reading t' book on, "Argonian dressmaking in an asymmetric style".

In mi defence I think I'm t' least of yer worries. I knows fer a fact that t' clerk of t' court is obviously very pale 'n 'as glowing blue eyes 'n drinks folks blood of an evening 'n t' bailiff has been seen several times getting all "canine and hairy-looking-like" 'n eating corpses out past t' gates.

I'll pay mi fine, Mi' lud, wi respect and t' like. But lock these folks up.

Araflin

What I am getting at is : Make it a crime to be seen and obviously a vampire or Werewolf. The Fighters guild should hunt them down, the guards rally to protect the civilians.

3 overt actions in sight of guards, townfolk, or reports / bounties from players should set a target (a la Jedi in StarWars Galaxies) with a reasonable cooldown time for either not allowed in towns or world pvp flagged by any and all factions.

Just my thoughts. Enjoy!

Kitsy

I do think Skyrim was pretty great because of certain things. Shifting into Warewolf form should scare townspeople and have guards attack you.
I think Vampires should also scare people if they are in stage 3 and 4.

I am not sure how i feel about deny those people access to the fighters guild, but i see your "realistic" logics.

Araflin

I wouldn't say deny, although I think I may have implied that. I mean if a vamp was in the fighters guild couldn't they just repeatedly suicide to get xp?

Quest for a cure, quest for acceptance, donate, make a pledge never to feed on a fellow member - lots of ways around the acceptance of them. I just object to players being able to ask in zone chat, get bit and take the benefits without getting to do some work

It SHOULD be hard - restricted to when you can go into a town (unless it's a WW or vamp town) maybe? Just making it so it's not just "another guild you are in" would be a big step. They should be mistrusted, they should be shunned, but it doesn't mean they can't be accepted.

ed: spelling and suggestion

SBR_QuorTek

Wish as a Dominion Khajiit and an alchemist that I should be hunted by feral bosmers for eating their flowers lol... some of you guys might get the reference from the game if went through AD area one way or another.

And also to the OP... just plain awesome

Araflin

Feral Bosmer : "Ger 'orf my laand!"

Merlin13KAGL

Araflin wrote: »

What I am getting at is : Make it a crime to be seen and obviously a vampire or Werewolf. The Fighters guild should hunt them down, the guards rally to protect the civilians.

@Araflin‌, as one of the creatures-whom-you-dare-not-speak-its-name, I would be okay with some disdain from certain civilians... I'm ok with the vendor that can't stop shaking long enough to take my gold and count out my change. There would be afflicted vendors that would happily take my commerce.

But to make it a crime to be a Vampire (oop...I said it), is one thing...to Vamp out in town is quite different. Vampirism by itself shouldn't be a crime... Eating lunch in the city limits...probably should... and I'd be more than content with anyone that would attempt to apprehend...

Not all are as fearful or intolerant. Mage's guild, for instance. And should I make it there for sanctuary (not that I'd need it, and yes, I see the irony), I would expect my fellow Mage's guild members to help defend me...

Leads to a big nasty brawl that gets convoluted real quick...(and leads to many new FG recruits being needed at the end of it and a shortage of healing herbs, too)

Kitsy wrote: »

I do think Skyrim was pretty great because of certain things. Shifting into Warewolf form should scare townspeople and have guards attack you.
I think Vampires should also scare people if they are in stage 3 and 4.

I am not sure how i feel about deny those people access to the fighters guild, but i see your "realistic" logics.

@Kitsy‌, denied entry?...I don't think so... (And, yes, I already know where you stand on this, my kindred...)

For starters, what better 'Monster hunter' to have than a monster themselves? And if I'm asking to join, or better yet, already member, I have equally pledged a loyalty to the FG, so this should not be an issue.

The standalone games offered a set of rules for each guild...break the rule, out you go.

If entry was automatically denied or execution imminent, this might make for awkward situations for FG Vampire/WW hunters that get 'infected' in the process...You've a long term loyal member that was wounded in the line of duty... You are now going to disregard the number of times he potentially saved your life or the lives of countless citizens before now? (Enter the grey area...)

Agreed, you should have a reputation, be it fame or infamy...and this should affect various things.

@Araflin‌, I'm good with potential PvP options in regard to my gift...it should be a toggle in the controls section, for those that know enough to stay neutral. If you've chosen to be non-neutral, we should register as enemies (red outline) for each other...and if one attacks the other, those nearby loyal to the one attacked should be notified accordingly and respond in kind.

Enable the PvP option for this...there are enough of my brethren nearby. We do not currently seek you out to harm you, but we can always use a more readily available local food supply, if you remain insistent to provide one.

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

Wish as a Dominion Khajiit and an alchemist that I should be hunted by feral bosmers for eating their flowers lol... some of you guys might get the reference from the game if went through AD area one way or another.

And also to the OP... just plain awesome

Feral Bosmers?... Is there another kind? (Not very Viridescently Correct, I know).

At the same time, there is some irony in a Kajhiit snacking on salad, even if it is for purposes of determining their alchemical properties...

stumpy999

I like the idea of vamps and wolves being open pvp targets in none pvp zones. That would work

AlienSlof

I don't.

I love playing my vampires, but I have NO interest in PvP at all. Open PvP just because I like a different playstyle is not fair or right.

discosoc

Vampires and werewolves should be KOS by guards. It's kind of weird having every player in the game one or the other.

Chuggernaut

discosoc wrote: »

Vampires and werewolves should be KOS by guards. It's kind of weird having every player in the game one or the other.

I agree! It should be like the Jedi hunt system from SWG. If you wolf out or your hunger level for vampire hits some level, that should add visibility, and when enough visibility is gained, town guards attack, and if it gets even higher Fighter Guild bounties come after you. The visibility would go down over time so long as the player doesn't gain any new visibility, or gets killed (since players as far as I can tell are the only inhabitants that can rez lol).

I haven't beat all the factions yet, but I know for the Daggerfall Covenant, just from all the terror Glenumbra faced, this should already be a game mechanic for Werewolves and the same is true for Vampires post Rivenspire.

Riptide

Shrug, how would anyone know a vampire was a vampire with a helm on?

I know when Im at the bank and so forth I see more like 10% vampires, at most. I think this "problem" isn't really one, personally.

Adding interesting new ww and vampire mechanics would be interesting, in several months, and in my opinion the day/night cycle is where to focus. Flagging and npc/guild behaviours create 2 problems for each it solves.

Araflin

Vampire with a helm on? It's the blue glow from the eye slit like a boy-racers sill lights. Easy

I agree that PvP has to be a choice. Even for Vampires and Werewolves. However, an awareness that "lunching" in city limits does it then makes it your choice.

My hope was just to start a discussion on how to make them not "just another guild" and have some form of mechanic that is restrictive to them in general play.

Lore would dictate that day/night cycle penalties are possible but only for certain "strains". As you (@Riptide) didn't flesh out your remarks with any details I can't contribute anything further.

I see @Merlin13KAGL 's point that open flagged pvp could quickly get "messy" - especially when people could go out of their way to cause it. The potential here is to have it as a Guard mechanic / one person may pick up the bounty from the fighters guild thus making it more a duel / small group skirmish only.
Also, liking your "sanctuary" idea, and the irony. But where would the WW's flee to? The kennel? (Just out of town, obviously).

Merlin13KAGL

Araflin wrote: »

I agree that PvP has to be a choice. Even for Vampires and Werewolves. However, an awareness that "lunching" in city limits does it then makes it your choice.

My hope was just to start a discussion on how to make them not "just another guild" and have some form of mechanic that is restrictive to them in general play.

Lore would dictate that day/night cycle penalties are possible but only for certain "strains". As you (@Riptide) didn't flesh out your remarks with any details I can't contribute anything further.

Indeed...there should be more caution necessary on both sides. It's not as potentially bothersome for any parties as it should be.

Not striking with animosity, at all. There is much potential. (To be fair, in addition to the potential to get 'infected' and have to quest cure in a certain amount of time, @Araflin‌, perhaps you did not think of the fact that you could equally poison a vampire with a cure potion...requiring them to quest to remain a vamp?) That would add a sense of urgency.

(It could always just have lessening effects for the line, on either side, rather than causing a full cross over, as I could understand some people getting potentially upset.) (FG could be infected with the urge to dance, Vamp's with the urge to give out hugs instead of feeding...) (And no, I'm not serious.)

Araflin wrote: »

Lore would dictate that day/night cycle penalties are possible but only for certain "strains". As you (@Riptide) didn't flesh out your remarks with any details I can't contribute anything further.

In addition to the penalties, don't forget the bonuses...

In regard to the cycles...call them short lived hunting seasons... Seems reasonable, right? Vamps don't go to the beach during the summer solstice, townsfolk know to stay inside during full moons, etc...

You could add yet another twist to the cycle idea by making it a 'three alliance' thing...for every cycle, one of the groups is immune to attack from the other two, but not immune to attack the other two...

Araflin wrote: »

I see @Merlin13KAGL 's point that open flagged pvp could quickly get "messy" - especially when people could go out of their way to cause it. The potential here is to have it as a Guard mechanic / one person may pick up the bounty from the fighters guild thus making it more a duel / small group skirmish only.

I just envision the general panic that would ensue while the poor townspeople are just trying to buy some groceries...I am not automatically opposed, though.

Another game that involved Assassins with a particular Creed had an interesting way of doing things...so long as you didn't draw an actual weapon, the guards did not get involved... There could be a way to determine at what point intervention from any side was required ~ if it didn't end in a certain timeframe, for instance.

Araflin wrote: »

Also, liking your "sanctuary" idea, and the irony. But where would the WW's flee to? The kennel? (Just out of town, obviously).

Just figure, you joined a guild right, shouldn't they have your back?

WW's? I think you mean "Where would they flea to..." Lol...

I don't know...the Hairdresser? The butcher shop? Or my personal favorite, the petting zoo? ("Don't feed that one honey, I think it's sick...") Would have to be somewhere they'd blend in, I suppose. I'm sure ever major city could have that house...the one no one speaks of...the one no one goes near... The one that has that odd scent to it.

We could find a way to make it work.