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Restoring Spirit vs Sorc Passives

WhitePawPrints
WhitePawPrints
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When playing Templar, I thought unlocking Restoring Spirit at Dawn Wrath level 50 was good. I started a new character and played as a Sorc and discovering the passives of the Sorcerer, I'm amazed.

Templar:

Restoring Spirit - Reduces Ultimate, Magicka and Stamina cost of abilities by 4%.

Sorcerer:

Unholy Knowledge - Reduce cost of Magicka and Stamina on abilities by 5%

Power Stone - Reduce cost of Ultimates by 15%

Expert Mage - Reduce cost of Storm Calling abilities by 10%


The passives differences are significant. Which is the better class?
Edited by WhitePawPrints on June 28, 2014 4:54PM
Dozens of core groups that I participated in have left the game. We would bring our grievances here, but after years of white knights on the forum shouting down legitimate complaints, backed up by the inconsistent and biased hammer of moderators, we have all moved onto other games. Enjoy the sinking ships you've built whiteknights.
  • Robocles
    Robocles
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    This is the second(?) thread you've posted with one very specific comparison and then asked "which is the better class?".

    What are you looking to do? Or is this a "templars have crappy passives" whinge?
  • WhitePawPrints
    WhitePawPrints
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    Robocles wrote: »
    This is the second(?) thread you've posted with one very specific comparison and then asked "which is the better class?".

    What are you looking to do? Or is this a "templars have crappy passives" whinge?

    Looking for discussion, not people to speculate my motives.
    Dozens of core groups that I participated in have left the game. We would bring our grievances here, but after years of white knights on the forum shouting down legitimate complaints, backed up by the inconsistent and biased hammer of moderators, we have all moved onto other games. Enjoy the sinking ships you've built whiteknights.
  • Robocles
    Robocles
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    I asked what you wanted to do.

    You specify a few passives, then ask what is the better class. That's not a point for discussion, that's a straight comparison of some class passives.

    But, sure, I'm in the wrong questioning your motives.
  • WhitePawPrints
    WhitePawPrints
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    Robocles wrote: »
    I asked what you wanted to do.

    You specify a few passives, then ask what is the better class. That's not a point for discussion, that's a straight comparison of some class passives.

    But, sure, I'm in the wrong questioning your motives.

    Specifically to this thread, I am comparing cost reduction of two separate classes.

    Is Prism - Bestows 2 Additional Ultimate upon activation - a good replacement for the 15% Ultimate cost reduction?

    Can someone tell me that the other passives balance out these cost reductions? Does certain armor and weapon combinations make up for those differences?

    I'm looking for someone to point out why this isn't an obvious imbalance.
    Dozens of core groups that I participated in have left the game. We would bring our grievances here, but after years of white knights on the forum shouting down legitimate complaints, backed up by the inconsistent and biased hammer of moderators, we have all moved onto other games. Enjoy the sinking ships you've built whiteknights.
  • Tankqull
    Tankqull
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    I'm looking for someone to point out why this isn't an obvious imbalance.

    because templar abilites cost more the lower reduction results in equal absolut reduction or something like that could be dev reasoning ...

    for those who do not reckognise thats sarkasm

    Edited by Tankqull on June 28, 2014 6:31PM
    spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused

    Sallington wrote: »
    Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"


  • danno8
    danno8
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    If your point is that Templar have terrible resource management, you are about 3 months late to the discussion.

    The developers have said that they are looking at it, over here about half way down the page.
  • CaptainSilverbrow
    CaptainSilverbrow
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    Can someone tell me that the other passives balance out these cost reductions? Does certain armor and weapon combinations make up for those differences?

    I'm looking for someone to point out why this isn't an obvious imbalance.

    Not saying I disagree with your premise one bit, 'cause I don't, but I wonder when somebody'll make a thread like this about Argonian passives? Seriously, somebody look between each of the individual classes' passives vs. Argonian passives and tell me that's fair.

    I QQ everytime.
    Edited by CaptainSilverbrow on June 29, 2014 12:59AM
  • WhitePawPrints
    WhitePawPrints
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    If your point is that Templar have terrible resource management, you are about 3 months late to the discussion.

    The developers have said that they are looking at it, over here about half way down the page.

    I know that this is likely a very common issue; but if it's 3 months too late... and Zenimax said they're looking into it... they're taking their sweet time, no?
    Dozens of core groups that I participated in have left the game. We would bring our grievances here, but after years of white knights on the forum shouting down legitimate complaints, backed up by the inconsistent and biased hammer of moderators, we have all moved onto other games. Enjoy the sinking ships you've built whiteknights.
  • danno8
    danno8
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    If your point is that Templar have terrible resource management, you are about 3 months late to the discussion.

    The developers have said that they are looking at it, over here about half way down the page.

    I know that this is likely a very common issue; but if it's 3 months too late... and Zenimax said they're looking into it... they're taking their sweet time, no?

    The last patch was a step, I look forward to the next one. Would I like it to be faster? Of course.

    Any way if you want discussion you should probably ask a more open ended question than "which is the better class", cause the answer currently is Sorcerer. Everyone knows this.

    How about some suggestions for some balance changes or examples of improvements to passive skills that are unique but equal. You know, hard stuff that interests people, and make your threads valuable.

    The way you are going people will just learn to ignore you.

  • WhitePawPrints
    WhitePawPrints
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    If your point is that Templar have terrible resource management, you are about 3 months late to the discussion.

    The developers have said that they are looking at it, over here about half way down the page.

    I know that this is likely a very common issue; but if it's 3 months too late... and Zenimax said they're looking into it... they're taking their sweet time, no?

    The last patch was a step, I look forward to the next one. Would I like it to be faster? Of course.

    Any way if you want discussion you should probably ask a more open ended question than "which is the better class", cause the answer currently is Sorcerer. Everyone knows this.

    How about some suggestions for some balance changes or examples of improvements to passive skills that are unique but equal. You know, hard stuff that interests people, and make your threads valuable.

    The way you are going people will just learn to ignore you.

    Of all the official forums I've been on over the years, I've really only noticed this to be a trend on the Elder Scrolls Online forums. "Post abilities and passive suggestions otherwise you're post is not of any value."

    I've had to address this in one of my other posts. I explained how it is of absolutely minimal value to post abilities and passives suggestions. Zenimax has a team thinking up of these things. The forums are primarily of Zenimax community employees. Suggestions that don't start flame wars get buried; suggestions that do start flamewars get shut down for flame wars.

    Regardless, since it is incredibly easy to come up with suggestions off the top of my head, I will post a few suggestions at sacrifice to my own time.
    Prism - Issue: Less than 5 additional ultimate upon activation of a Dawn's Wrath ability. I have personally tested and used all of the Dawn Wrath abilities and found them lacking, to be replaced by other abilities; only using Solar Disturbance (Nova Morph) on secondary skill line.

    Fix (Option 1) - Prism reduces Magicka and Stamina cost by abilities by X%. (Copied from Unholy Knowledge.)

    Fix (Option 2) - Prism bestows a minimal of 10 additional Ultimate upon activation of any class skill. (This would be IF Templar Ultimates are reduced to at least be on par at base with the far superior Banner of the Dragonknights.)

    Restoring Spirit - Issue: 4% of the final passive for Templars is less than the first passive of Sorcerers that is a 5% reduction, minus Ultimate reduction. 4% Ultimate reduction is significantly less than the 15% Ultimate reduction at the second tier of Sorcerer passives.

    Fix - Increase to 10-15% all around reductions. Higher if this remains as the only reduction ability for Templars.

    Light Weaver - Issue: Unless the Templar is strictly healer, this passive is completely useless to the Templar.

    Fix (Option 1) - Reduce Restoring Light abilities cost by X(15?)%. (Copied from Expert Mage.) (In addition, the cost of Honor Dead is ridiculously high, so this would help.)

    Fix (Option 2) - Reduce Physical and Spell intake damage by X% for Y seconds after casting of ANY Restoring Light ability.

    Fix (Option 3) - Use Option 3 or 4 on Focused Healing if 3 or 4 is not implemented for Focused Healing.

    Focused Healing - Issue: Same as Light Weaver. If a Templar wants to have one healing ability on their bar and focus on other skills, then this Passive is completely useless unless in a group with a pure healing Templar.

    Fix (Option 1) - Use Lighter Weaver Option 1 if not implemented for Light Weaver.

    Fix (Option 2) - Use Prism Option 1 if not implemented for Prism.

    Fix (Option 3) - Increase base power of healing spells by X%. (Copied from Sorcerer passive Energized.)

    Fix (Option 4) - Healing a target heals self for X% of health healed. (Inspired from Sorcerer Passive Blood Magic, but still significantly weaker.)

    Illuminate - Issue: Spell resistance is negated by Destruction Staff passive Penetrating Magic when attacked by Destruction Ability.

    Fix - If attacker is affected (whatever that means) by a Dawn Wrath ability, reduce cost taken by spells by X% for Y seconds.

    Right now the only passive that Templars have over others is Balanced Warrior, I think. I'm not that informed on the passives of Dragonknights and Nightblades. However, 4% increase on weapon damage is hardly an improvement, doing less than an increased 8 damage to a unit.

    Despite the cost reduction imbalances, the real issue could be said to be in the Restoring Light passives as they just completely suck if you're playing Templar that is not a healer. Adding some of the suggestions above would help improve the incredibly poor Templar passives, and maybe make some of the Passives in the Restoring Light line actually beneficial to non-healer Templars.
    Dozens of core groups that I participated in have left the game. We would bring our grievances here, but after years of white knights on the forum shouting down legitimate complaints, backed up by the inconsistent and biased hammer of moderators, we have all moved onto other games. Enjoy the sinking ships you've built whiteknights.
  • Robocles
    Robocles
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    I am glad you finally admit your post is here because you have an axe to grind about Templars.

    Templar passives are lackluster... and, yes, you are about 3 months late (or more) to the party on this. They removed the passive that assisted in our regen rates, since it was deemed "overpowered". They left our inflated spell costs in place, and gave us nothing in return.

    Don't hold your breath on a fix any time soon. There are major game mechanics that just don't work right now. They should be fixing the basics, and then see what they have to balance between classes and weapons. But, they aren't.

    I do have to ask, why do you care if the passives in Restoring Light cater to non healers? That tree is there SPECIFICALLY to heal. It's perfectly logical that the passives reflect that.
  • WhitePawPrints
    WhitePawPrints
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    Robocles wrote: »
    I am glad you finally admit your post is here because you have an axe to grind about Templars.

    Templar passives are lackluster... and, yes, you are about 3 months late (or more) to the party on this. They removed the passive that assisted in our regen rates, since it was deemed "overpowered". They left our inflated spell costs in place, and gave us nothing in return.

    Don't hold your breath on a fix any time soon. There are major game mechanics that just don't work right now. They should be fixing the basics, and then see what they have to balance between classes and weapons. But, they aren't.

    I do have to ask, why do you care if the passives in Restoring Light cater to non healers? That tree is there SPECIFICALLY to heal. It's perfectly logical that the passives reflect that.

    My point is the passives only truly benefit healer builds. My character is more of hybrid, focusing mostly on support but I have Honor the Dead on my skill bar for focused healing. That ability does not gain any benefit from the two passives listed; unless the player or an ally has one of the other Templar healing abilities, then there is a little benefit out of Focused Healing.
    Dozens of core groups that I participated in have left the game. We would bring our grievances here, but after years of white knights on the forum shouting down legitimate complaints, backed up by the inconsistent and biased hammer of moderators, we have all moved onto other games. Enjoy the sinking ships you've built whiteknights.
  • Tamanous
    Tamanous
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    Breaking news!

    3 passives are better than 1 passive!
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