Seeing Lots Of Players Means Nothing

Innocente

Because of the MegaServer tech that Z uses, seeing lots of players around you means absolutely nothing as it relates to the overall population or health of the game.

The tech will stuff random players into an area instance until it is relatively full, then start a new instance of that area, balancing out the populations as players zone from instance to instance.

ESO could have as few as 20k (or less) players logged on and it would still look like a 'healthy' population due to the funnel effect of the MegaServer tech.

What is a really good indicator of the game's health is looking at Guild populations and how many of their members have actually stopped playing the game. This can be seen by mousing over the Status icon at the far left of a guild members line.

For example, in the small adventure guild I am a member of, we had 270+ members during the first month. We are now down to under 100 members. We are losing about 5 per day due to inactivity (not logged in to ESO for over a month). The three trade guilds I am a member of are almost never full anymore (they used to be 500/500 all the time).

If you go into an open area, and there are only a few folks there, then that is really, really bad. It means there were not enough players for the tech to funnel in to make even that one instance populated. Ouch.

Just my observations on the state of the game.

tordr86b16_ESO

the game is fine, just get off the forums.

Innocente

No, the game is NOT 'fine'.
Not in ANY sense of the meaning of the word.

Moonscythe

Am I the only person playing who isn't in any guild? Does that make me a non-entity?

KariTR

Innocente wrote: »

No, the game is NOT 'fine'.
Not in ANY sense of the meaning of the word.

You're right of course. It is not fine. It is way better than fine.

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO

True that a lot of guilds have inactive members, but at least cyrodiil is still relatively packed, which is what matters most

nerevarine1138

Seeing lots of players leaving your day-one guilds (or becoming inactive in them) doesn't mean anything either. I'm a member of 5 thriving guilds, and that's because I dropped out of all the failing guilds that started at Early Access.

Amsel_McKay

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO wrote: »

True that a lot of guilds have inactive members, but at least cyrodiil is still relatively packed, which is what matters most

Cyrodill is not packed on more then half of the campaigns... I joined one and ran around for an entire 9 hours doing quests and shards and did not see one player and not one zone comment.

Csub

Moonscythe wrote: »

Am I the only person playing who isn't in any guild? Does that make me a non-entity?

Yes and yes! You are just an NPC to me.

drogon1

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

the game is fine, just get off the forums.

You're right the game is fine. It's just a graphics snafu where everything has a pink tint to it.

Moiskormoimi

The official forums is always about doom and gloom. I'm not going to hide my discontent for the game in it's current state. It's too linear, and I can't stay engaged with content like that. For others, it's perfectly fine. An asthetically pleasing game that meets their minimum expectations. For these people, bugs, glitches, phasing issues, lag, linear progression, and content difficulty will not bother them and they will be loyal to the game regardless, whether there are 5 people left or 5k left.

And that's fine. I also feel at times the official forums is where most of the apocalyptic clients go, because when I hop over to Tamriel Foundry, I don't find near as much ZOMG ZOS IS DYING threads. There's more constructive feedback over there, but that may be due to the inaccessibility of the official forums for a lot of people as well.

Your ideal of the metrics for basing population is not off and I agree. I can personally attest to my own personal friend lists and the guilds I was apart of. Does this matter though? No, I think not. There are plenty of mmos out there that only have a couple 100k subs, if that, and are still kicking.

In the end, play, or don't play. The choice is yours.

daneyulebub17_ESO

Innocente wrote: »

If you go into an open area, and there are only a few folks there, then that is really, really bad. It means there were not enough players for the tech to funnel in to make even that one instance populated. Ouch.

Or you just hit a newly created phase. Or a recently depleted one. There could still be lots of unseen people all around you.

Xexpo

What is the point of this thread? a doom and gloom PSA?
tysm , have a tear from me

cjmarsh725b14_ESO

amber_picchiottino_ESO wrote: »

And that's fine. I also feel at times the official forums is where most of the apocalyptic clients go, because when I hop over to Tamriel Foundry, I don't find near as much ZOMG ZOS IS DYING threads. There's more constructive feedback over there, but that may be due to the inaccessibility of the official forums for a lot of people as well.

There's a lot less of those kinds of threads because it is heavily censored and anything that comes close is usually deleted immediately.

TaffyIX

What exactly is the point of this thread other than the OP having a deeply one-sided opinion of the perceived state of the game, and subtly trying to conveying it to others under the guise of an oh so 'innocent' thread title?

Lalai

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Seeing lots of players leaving your day-one guilds (or becoming inactive in them) doesn't mean anything either. I'm a member of 5 thriving guilds, and that's because I dropped out of all the failing guilds that started at Early Access.

Pretty much this. As an example... cause repeating what I've said every time this topic comes up is fun. FFXIV:ARR my guild, all my linkshells (I was maxed out, and pretty much all my linkshells were maxed on players for various stuff, you're allowed 8 or so if I remember right).. empty within a few months of release. Everyone had quit, I saw maybe 1-2 people on at a time, my friends list was empty too. Went to the forums, exact same thing you see here. The game is dying because my guild/linkshells are all empty. You don't see anyone in xyz zones. Tons of people on the forums, all complaining about that exact thing... That was only a couple months after release (2-3), and that game is still going fine. Last time I heard their sub numbers were over 1 million. Heck, on the Wildstar forums there are already people talking about server mergers. The whole low population talk is just part of a game launch.. it really is.

Anecdotal evidence just doesn't work. How many people we each individually see online is not a representation of how the game is doing. Whether that be in the open world, or within our guilds. The only way we know for sure is if they release sub numbers, which they haven't done, nor do they have to do. I wouldn't at all be surprised if they either never released them, or waited until consoles were out to say anything... and no, I don't think the silence is telling either. I don't buy into the gloom and doom crap. I will play any game until I stop having fun doing so... and when I stop having fun, I'm definitely not going to try and convince others that they shouldn't be having fun or their fun activity is going to go under.

Ragekniv

You're preaching to the congregation!

It's disheartening to look at friends list and guilds and witness the drop in activity.

Zones, specifically VR zones are barren compared to the activity prior to the pre-holiday massacre patch.

Beta and three months subscription revenue should bear more evidence of game stability and sustained DPS and resource mechanic balance for all classes.

mutharex

So if I don't see players the game is dying, if I see players the game is still dying?
Gotcha

daneyulebub17_ESO

The guild I'm in regularly prune out inactive members, so new members can come in. It is full of active members and thriving. When you're talking 500 members, there's likely going to be lots of churning--ours would likely be composed of 400 inactive members too if it were never kept up.

This effect is especially true in a new game where a lot of people joined up at once two months ago---and it's especially, especially true in a game where there are more viable guilds than in most MMOs (due to the prevalence of commerce-only ones, and the ability for anyone to be in 5 at a time). It seems that way more guilds pretty much take anyone without any vetting whatsoever than in other games, too due to those reasons.

I think you're going to see more of this kind of thing in ESO just due to the different way guilds work than in other games.

TL;DR = OP's point is weak, subjective, and based on nothing but anecdotal evidence . Sink it fast to make room for the next exactly like it.

cjmarsh725b14_ESO

The one argument I do find troubling is how empty some of the zones feel, especially in the later veteran levels. I don't know if this is because players haven't reached this stage yet or don't all want to access this kind of content but it seems like there isn't more than about 20 players in some of the later zones. Also, the fact that everyone is playing together and that there's only this one shard means that it does matter if we don't see people around or not. Obviously there isn't any concrete way of saying what the population is, but I haven't seen any signs that are encouraging and plenty that aren't.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

You have no idea how many people are playing when it looks busy because of the server tech, yet you draw the conclusion if it looks slow then it is exactly right. How does that work? You have no idea if you are the last person to take a spot in a packed instance or the first person to open a new instance all alone. If you cant tell one way you can't tell the other either.

On the flip side the 2 guilds i am are holding steady. One even seems to be growing very slowly. So experiences may vary.

UrQuan

Moonscythe wrote: »

Am I the only person playing who isn't in any guild? Does that make me a non-entity?

Yes. Want to join my guild and become an actual entity?

UsedKittens

I see lots of people on my server. But it could be a lie, like my life.

Moiskormoimi

cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »

amber_picchiottino_ESO wrote: »

And that's fine. I also feel at times the official forums is where most of the apocalyptic clients go, because when I hop over to Tamriel Foundry, I don't find near as much ZOMG ZOS IS DYING threads. There's more constructive feedback over there, but that may be due to the inaccessibility of the official forums for a lot of people as well.

There's a lot less of those kinds of threads because it is heavily censored and anything that comes close is usually deleted immediately.

Are you new? There's a thread about the declining population or at least several make comments in the apocalyptic threads about it almost every day. Sometimes, there's several at once going on. There are threads that they deliberately sink, the Entropy Rising thread, which is perma sunk because there have been people that have posted in that repeatedly since and it will not come to the front of the page. THAT is deliberate censoring. But the thread is still accessible.

cjmarsh725b14_ESO

amber_picchiottino_ESO wrote: »

cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »

amber_picchiottino_ESO wrote: »

And that's fine. I also feel at times the official forums is where most of the apocalyptic clients go, because when I hop over to Tamriel Foundry, I don't find near as much ZOMG ZOS IS DYING threads. There's more constructive feedback over there, but that may be due to the inaccessibility of the official forums for a lot of people as well.

There's a lot less of those kinds of threads because it is heavily censored and anything that comes close is usually deleted immediately.

Are you new? There's a thread about the declining population or at least several make comments in the apocalyptic threads about it almost every day. Sometimes, there's several at once going on. There are threads that they deliberately sink, the Entropy Rising thread, which is perma sunk because there have been people that have posted in that repeatedly since and it will not come to the front of the page. THAT is deliberate censoring. But the thread is still accessible.

Yes, I know, I posted in that thread before and after they sank it. The censorship I was referring to was about Tamriel Foundry's forums which is why I quoted your comment about them not having as many negative threads.

DLaren

I'll speak for the silent majority who aren't in any guilds.

We're still here, going at it alone, and having the time of our lives.

Moiskormoimi

cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »

amber_picchiottino_ESO wrote: »

cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »

amber_picchiottino_ESO wrote: »

And that's fine. I also feel at times the official forums is where most of the apocalyptic clients go, because when I hop over to Tamriel Foundry, I don't find near as much ZOMG ZOS IS DYING threads. There's more constructive feedback over there, but that may be due to the inaccessibility of the official forums for a lot of people as well.

There's a lot less of those kinds of threads because it is heavily censored and anything that comes close is usually deleted immediately.

Are you new? There's a thread about the declining population or at least several make comments in the apocalyptic threads about it almost every day. Sometimes, there's several at once going on. There are threads that they deliberately sink, the Entropy Rising thread, which is perma sunk because there have been people that have posted in that repeatedly since and it will not come to the front of the page. THAT is deliberate censoring. But the thread is still accessible.

Yes, I know, I posted in that thread before and after they sank it. The censorship I was referring to was about Tamriel Foundry's forums which is why I quoted your comment about them not having as many negative threads.

My apologies. I thought you were referring to these forums. I don't know much about TF's forums and their moderation, so you're more than likely correct about how they do it, which I completely disagree with. As I've stated in other threads, if the company was confident about their product, they wouldn't need censoring.

Mordria

drogon1 wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

the game is fine, just get off the forums.

You're right the game is fine. It's just a graphics snafu where everything has a pink tint to it.

Pink tint? Have you considered that you may need a new monitor? Or at least try adjusting it.

nerevarine1138

Mordria wrote: »

drogon1 wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

the game is fine, just get off the forums.

You're right the game is fine. It's just a graphics snafu where everything has a pink tint to it.

Pink tint? Have you considered that you may need a new monitor? Or at least try adjusting it.

It was a very poorly constructed joke about rose-colored glasses. Nothing to see there.

Ohioastro

Dropping garbage threads is essential if you want any sort of actual discussion. Otherwise it simply boils down to "whomever posts the most dictates the discussion."

Freedom of speech is not freedom to drown everyone else out. Let's say, for example, that I decide that I want to write random ascii gibberish. Am I being "censored" if the mods delete my crucial, 100+, random postings?

Gedalya

Please people, do not feed the trolls.