A Sincere Letter To Management

MarblePine204

To Whom It May Concern:

First, thank you for listening, and thank you for the Elder Scrolls series. I have logged over 2,000 hours playing Skyrim alone on Xbox360/PC combined.

The Beta for The Elder Scrolls Online definitely convinced me to purchase the game. You have built a beautiful world, and I love seeing the influence some of the mods have had on what you've done. The performance, for me so far, has been virtually free of issues. I've also had fun recognizing elements from Morrowind and Oblivion, not just those of Skyrim.

Now we come to the however part, so I ask please that you stay with me, and grant serious consideration to some thoughts:

1. The crafting system is a fairly significant obstacle right now. It's alienating people from the game. I have seen Elder Scrolls Online traffic on our group's TeamSpeak server dwindle to a trickle. I read comments from people on Facebook and elsewhere attempting to express their frustrations, but, unfortunately, they are not getting sufficient support to encourage them to more adequately express what they're experiencing in a more constructive manner.

I would, therefore, like to be specific, if I may, since I actually don't want to see this game fail, and right now, what I'm hearing from my friends is not good news for long term subscription success. (What I'm actually hearing is "game-breaking.")

a. The randomized success/fail system around extraction, improvement, etc. doesn't behave in a rational manner or successively track with improved skillsets - I had an 80% chance of success at improvement utterly fail. Partial or proportionally reduced improvement would have seemed far more logical, since I am not a zero level beginner.

b. The complexity of the system would be an acceptable and even somewhat pleasant long-term pursuit if not for the scarcity of the ingredients needed for improvement/creation: embroidery, turpen, etc. Merchants don't have the items for sale (as one would assume would be only logical in a system of commerce), and I have not had one single "dungeon boss" drop anything other than 1 or 2 gold. Nor can one craft them at an alchemy station, and the random extraction / deconstruction process moves from mildly frustrating to brutally punitive when I've spent hours questing and hoping for an item with a specific trait to drop, only to then receive the message nothing of value was recovered after I've eagerly rushed to the nearest crafting station. What would be the harm to the game of having the rarest ingredient in an enchanted item be at least the minimum recovery?

c. Was there a reason why quests requiring single player completion were written into an MMO where the player would experience every single item in the cell of value had already been looted (chests open and empty, etc.)? Since it wasn't a group quest, why were the contents subject to MMO loot/respawn scripting?

It is my sincere hope you see and read this, and find a way to incorporate changes to the current crafting system into the game. It would definitely restore some heart, I think.

Thank You,
MarblePine204

FoggyHarbor

Couldn't agree more. It is quite discouraging to finally find an item with the trait you are looking for only to get the common ingredients out of it. It turns the joy of crafting into the extreme tedium of grinding.

indytims_ESO

The only thing really 'frustrating' about the crafting in this game for me is how ridiculously -easy- it is. Enchanting is the only craft skill that is remotely 'challenging', and that's simply because it's the slowest to level.

Recovering a rare ingredient during -every- decon of an enchanted item would soon flood the market with these ingredients that would then not be 'rare' - and the rarity is the point. The point is not to have every single player running around in gold/purple gear within a month or two of launch.

Failing on an 80% chance is, sadly, part of the odds. 80% does not equal 100%. There will be failures, and we're all subject to the RNG. You had the choice to bump it up to 100%, and chose not to, the game didn't force you to. Yeah, it's gambling, and doesn't require 'skill'. Sadly, there really isn't an MMO 'crafting' element that requires real 'skill' that I am aware of.

Merchants do not sell Turpen, Dwarven Oil, etc, but plenty of players do. I see these elements for sale constantly, and even sell some myself when I have extras. Yes, some people try to gouge when they sell them, and it's a land of buyer-beware for the most part. But that's part of the economy.

I am also quite amazed that you've NEVER gotten anything other than gold from any dungeon boss you've killed. I almost always get -something- other than gold, even if it's a soul gem and a white trash item. Of course, if dungeon bosses dropped rare crafting mats - they'd be hard-core farmed even worse than they are now, especially by bot-farmers - and again, the value of 'rare' items would drop, and the 'rarity' would become pointless.

In the end, I respectfully disagree with almost every point you made. I rather like the system as-is. No, I am not a 'big time crafter', nor have I made a fortune from crafting or selling crafting mats. The system makes gold stuff super-rare (which is should be), purple a bit less so, and so on, and to me it's a great system. I have a few dozen gold mats that I am saving for the right time to use, and this forces me to really put some thought into how I am going to upgrade my gear, rather than just assuming I will max-upgrade all my gear every few levels or so. I just don't think that was ever the intent.

That being said I do NOT think the system is perfect, and I still think the crafting system in this game is super-easy as it stands. The rare elements are super easy to come by as well, require no skill to acquire from Hirelings, can be purchased from other players, or luckily scored when breaking items down. None of these methods involves a risk to you, the player, but -might- require some amount of patience.

Just my 2 gold's worth.

Carnage2K4

If you could buy the rare, epic and legendary crafting mats, they would no longer be rare, epic and legendary, I think having them in a store is a silly idea, the uncommon one... maybe... the implementation of their use can be done better, but they are hard to find for a reason.

Fleymark

Consider investing in the improvement mastery passive at the bottom of each trade. I've never once had a 100% attempt fail and the mats savings with these passive is quite significant.

That said, I do have the extraction passive also and I think the yields could be tuned up a bit. It's kind of ridiculous that 3/3 in hireling yields consistently more and better upgrade mats for doing nothing than 3/3 in the decon ones considering you are sacrificing a piece of gear that you had to go out and get.

Other than that, some of the inconsistencies with leather drips gathered higher VRs that are being reported, and the lack of more crafter set choices for stamina builds (which they are looking at they say) I'm pretty happy with crafting overall, personally.

Some better traits might be nice, maybe.

NightWatch

OMG, of all the things that are horribly, horribly wrong with ESO, you picked crafting? Not VR grinds, nerfed class abilities, unplayable 'solo' missions, reuse other factions in lieu of new content, etc; but crafting?

I fully agree with all of your points, I was just taken aback by someone selecting the crafting system as a reason to leave the ESO community when there's such a wealth of other issues to chose from.

sigsergv

Crafting is more-less ok right now, the only disappointing thing is a very small chance of getting upgrade mats by refining raw materials. On top levels no one pick up resource from resource nodes because it's pointless.

AinGeal

You make some fine points but there are some flaws though...

MarblePine204 wrote: »

a. The randomized success/fail system around extraction, improvement, etc. doesn't behave in a rational manner or successively track with improved skillsets - I had an 80% chance of success at improvement utterly fail. Partial or proportionally reduced improvement would have seemed far more logical, since I am not a zero level beginner.

When upgrading, you either pass or fail. There is no partial. You tried your luck at 80% and landed in the 20%. The beauty of this system is that it allows you to get a higher % with few upgrade components. Now compare this to Aion's system.

You gathered a couple dozen of about 5 or 6 types of mats. You craft an item but there is something like a 20% chance to get a higher quality of that item. Now this higher quality item (which you had a 20% chance to get) is now a component to combine with a few dozen of a couple more mats to make the next item. Again, you have just a 20% chance for this next item to be of top quality. Compound RNG for the win (*jumps off cliff*).

b. The complexity of the system would be an acceptable and even somewhat pleasant long-term pursuit if not for the scarcity of the ingredients needed for improvement/creation: embroidery, turpen, etc. Merchants don't have the items for sale (as one would assume would be only logical in a system of commerce)

Incorrect. The best markets are ones that are player driven. Vendors will set price floors and ceilings. Governments do this with the real economy. Examples are minimum wage (a floor on the wage market), and rent limits (a ceiling on the rent market). These disrupt their respective markets in a negative way. So why do they exist? Out of necessity, often for the sake of the worker/tenant. In a game like this, it's simply unnecessary. Unlike the RL example, in-game it will only result in the negative disruption without any benefit.

, and I have not had one single "dungeon boss" drop anything other than 1 or 2 gold. Nor can one craft them at an alchemy station, and the random extraction / deconstruction process moves from mildly frustrating to brutally punitive when I've spent hours questing and hoping for an item with a specific trait to drop, only to then receive the message nothing of value was recovered after I've eagerly rushed to the nearest crafting station. What would be the harm to the game of having the rarest ingredient in an enchanted item be at least the minimum recovery?

What would be the harm? It would lose it's rarity. Think about it. You want the rarest ingredient to be a guaranteed return? For upgraded gear, the upgrade component is the rarest ingredient. I see some of the most rare (to upgrade gear to gold) selling for ~2k. That's actually not that much.

Kalann_Pander

Hireling Alts > Problem solved.
Yes, even for enchanting, although it might take a bit more time.

Mortosk

Even Tera realized destroying the item if you fail wouldn't fly in an American MMO. They changed it so you just lose your mats and retain the item you were trying to improve. Guess the ESO dev's didn't get the memo.

twev

I notice nobody mentioning point 'c' in the discussion?

Thats one of my main gripes with the system, as I tend to play alone now that all my friends who got me to come here from another game have all gotten bored with the crap and quit.

Moiskormoimi

NightWatch wrote: »

OMG, of all the things that are horribly, horribly wrong with ESO, you picked crafting? Not VR grinds, nerfed class abilities, unplayable 'solo' missions, reuse other factions in lieu of new content, etc; but crafting?

I fully agree with all of your points, I was just taken aback by someone selecting the crafting system as a reason to leave the ESO community when there's such a wealth of other issues to chose from.

Perhaps they aren't vet levels yet or it just doesn't interest them or they could be bored with the ZOMG NB NERFS VR LEVELS ARE ***! wailings. Which, I agree with, but do we need 100 threads daily about it?

Razour

NightWatch wrote: »

OMG, of all the things that are horribly, horribly wrong with ESO, you picked crafting? Not VR grinds, nerfed class abilities, unplayable 'solo' missions, reuse other factions in lieu of new content, etc; but crafting?

I fully agree with all of your points, I was just taken aback by someone selecting the crafting system as a reason to leave the ESO community when there's such a wealth of other issues to chose from.

+1

badmojo

One thing I hate about crafting is your ability to extract materials(jute, leather, iron ingots, etc) while deconstructing items, is based on your character level and doesn't take in to account your skill level in that craft or your unlocked passives. So, I have a level 6 dedicated clothier with almost level 40 clothing skill and everything unlocked, but I can't get anything above the next(level 15) tier of materials, because she's only level 6. I still get the race, trait & tempers, just no mats.

Jexie

badmojo wrote: »

One thing I hate about crafting is your ability to extract materials(jute, leather, iron ingots, etc) while deconstructing items, is based on your character level and doesn't take in to account your skill level in that craft or your unlocked passives.

I agree with you! It should definitely be based on the crafting level. Though in my opinion skilling crafting is far too easy, perhaps it should be much harder to justify the higher level materials. However I am happy with the amount of improvement materials. I regularly recieve legendary materials on my level 6 hirelings.

Mortosk

amber_picchiottino_ESO wrote: »

NightWatch wrote: »

OMG, of all the things that are horribly, horribly wrong with ESO, you picked crafting? Not VR grinds, nerfed class abilities, unplayable 'solo' missions, reuse other factions in lieu of new content, etc; but crafting?

I fully agree with all of your points, I was just taken aback by someone selecting the crafting system as a reason to leave the ESO community when there's such a wealth of other issues to chose from.

Perhaps they aren't vet levels yet or it just doesn't interest them or they could be bored with the ZOMG NB NERFS VR LEVELS ARE ***! wailings. Which, I agree with, but do we need 100 threads daily about it?

They have a track record of listening to those that yell the loudest.

Falmer

I have no problem at all with the crafting system. Its definitely one of the bright points of the game for me.

If there is a downside, its the sheer lack of storage space required for the multitude of mats required. I have spread my crafting across three characters whose sole 'job' is crafting and maintaining the inventory space required by their professions.

FrauPerchta

Falmer wrote: »

I have no problem at all with the crafting system. Its definitely one of the bright points of the game for me.

If there is a downside, its the sheer lack of storage space required for the multitude of mats required. I have spread my crafting across three characters whose sole 'job' is crafting and maintaining the inventory space required by their professions.

This is me. Love crafting but we need more storage slots. Give each character their own bank along with the account bank. You know Devs, like most over MMOs do.

MarblePine204

Good Morning.

Following my initial letter, I thought it worthwhile to test out the advice and/or experience of others for a little while, and my subsequent in-game experience in line with this philosophical approach has refined my thoughts further.

1. The problem with temper extraction persists, despite the fact that I have invested as many skill points as possible across several crafting lines.
2. Over the last couple of days, I have had a minimum of 15 higher level extractions either fail completely or fail to extract anything other than base materials.
3. I acknowledge that others have said this is not occurring to them, and I do indeed wish I were such a Blessed Son/Daughter. If it is true that the consistency of failure of which I speak only happens to a percentage of players, then it demonstrably stands as evidence that somewhere, somehow, the system isn't working as it should. I remain steadfastly convinced that I am not alone. This is a simple request for an improvement to the system which would level it out for those of us who ARE experiencing this statistical anomaly.
4. While I offer my thanks for all comments from others, I would like to ask, please, if you are not a crafter or dedicated to crafting, please do not weigh in negatively on an issue that concerns many crafting devotees. I am not trying to draw attention to an either/or scenario - I believe your concerns about your devotions to the different areas of the game to be equally valid. They are just different.

BETHESDA, if you are indeed listening, I am asking again to refine this system so that it behaves on a more logical and consistent basis. I do not take my car to the mechanic and ask him to roll the dice to see whether or not his repairs will work. This is supposed to be a SKILL based system - otherwise, why am I investing Skill Points?

I am paying to play this game. We're talking real-world money, here, now, not theoretical in-game economics. I know you have the expertise to prevent over-leveling resulting in a flood of tempers in the market, and to prevent players from accessing Blue, Purple, Gold, etc. tempers before their skills have advanced to that level. I know you can also set the economics of the system that tempers would not have in-game value. It doesn't have to be a flood, and I'm not asking for one. I'm asking for equitable exchange of value. I have, after all, quested long and hard to be in the right place at the right time and fought my battles to win these items on which I am attempting to perform extraction.

While I don't know if the specific alterations to the mechanics to the problem I mention would be the choice you would make, I don't think it is unfair to ask that something be done in the name of the respect a paying customer deserves.

Thank you again,

MarblePine204

Katkon

I realize I will sound contrarian, but I believe all 3 points to be non-issues insofar as not impacting my personal enjoyment of the game.