Vet level took my motivation out back and beat it to death with an aluminum baseball bat.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

aleister wrote: »

AlrikVads wrote: »

Gotta remember that the game is coming up on three months old. Pretty sure WoW wasn't perfect and "complete" enough at that age. Have patience.

No, while WoW certainly wasn't perfect at release, it was pretty complete. You could max level a character and still have plenty to do with raiding, etc. I played for years and never got a point to a point where I was completely bored and didn't have any other options. It took about 4 weeks to get to that point with ESO.

Well, Onyxia and Molten Core were indeed raids on a larger scale than any other MMO has tried, not sure they were hugely successful for any significant number of players .. Blizzard admitted less than 15% of players ever saw inside them, far, far fewer ever completed both.

Animus0724

Oh dam, you know what I just remembered....this is an MMORPG...long hours of gameplay, slow, seemingly minimal progression...yep its an MMO...

At least with TESO, if you knew enough about the lore, you'll find some interesting content to keep you interested, if not, its better than repetitive grind i.e. killing 5000 wolves to gain half a level...

If not, go grind Craglorn like all the other weak VR12s running around Cyrodiil..

Kraven

50+ was not bad. 50++ is a bear while solo. I could have been okay with that by just taking a break and leveling an alt however with the release of Craglorn and the mind numbing brainless level grinding of anomalies I fail to see any point. People complain they took Xp away from the crystals, so what. Personally I wish they had phased them and limited them to groups of 4-6, then the majority of people throwing a hissy fit would be furious indeed as they lack the actual skill to do them without a massive amount of over kill.

By allowing the grind (which is something they've been combating since launch) to continue they've negated any reason to do ++ content at all. Oh so you get a few skill points, big deal. Much easier to grind to V12 in a couple of days and then go back through ++ than to actually do the crap to level. Then you get V12's who are so use to brainlessly grinding they have no actual player ability to take on the content, so they complain about difficulty in 50+ and quit in frustration at ++.

Group vet dungeons should give the best XP but the xp given in them is negligible. The dropped gear from vet dungeons need to have traits to go along with set bonuses and the dungeons need to give considerable xp, to make them worth doing over and over. Now it's do them once for the sp then craft weapons & armor because crafting isn't on par with drops crafting is the best. Not to mention crafting is so easy everyone does it. Hell let every craft take as long as Enchanting does to level and you might see some value to crafters. A different subject though.

As it stands you're forced to grind PITA quests in ++, mind numbingly boring zergs in Crag, or exploits in certain dungeons (glad they're fixing those). Neither of which is fun. The fixes to these so far have been knee jerk reactions like removing xp completely from certain mobs, punish everyone for the actions of a few and make certain content obsolete already.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

In Eastmarch I went to The Frigid Grotto to pick up the skyshard in there. I sneak around the VR4 trolls until I get to a point I have to run pass one. The troll kills me in 3, maybe 4 hits while I do little to no damage to it. I'm a VR5 DK with bow, no point in using sword a shield here. I rez and continue to skyshard, where I meet Frostbite Mangler, the dungeon boss. In 2 to 3 mins of fighting I kill him with little damage to myself. After getting the skyshard, I port out to a wayshire since any VR 4 troll in the Grotto will kill me in 10 secs or less.
This is whats wrong with VR levels. Pulling a third skeever is death is you miss one block, as for 3 saber cats, forget it, you're dead.

Alphashado

richard.a.ellisb16_ESO wrote: »

AlrikVads wrote: »

Gotta remember that the game is coming up on three months old. Pretty sure WoW wasn't perfect and "complete" enough at that age. Have patience.

I remember fishing for freaking hours to get golden pearls and buy "Gnome Diving Helmets" just to earn enough buy my first horse. WoW also had its fair share of moaners and complainers from day 1, sad part is Bizzard listened to a lot of them and changed. Many long term players got to watch the spoiled brats leave, whilst living with the consequences of their dumbed down universe (for a time anyway).

It is amazing how the loudest and most obnoxious voices tend to be the first to leave and thereby prove they are the least economically important to the game. They should simply be ignored.

This is not about a few grumblers. This isn't about a few whiners or a few QQers.
This is about people who care about ESO recognizing that there is a gigantic hole in the side of the ship and it's going down fast. The same people that you are complaining about are the ones trying to patch the hole in order to save the ship.

It's people like you, standing at the front of the ship while it's sinking, sipping tea, ignoring the rising water and telling all the "fools" that the ship is unsinkable..... that is being obnoxious.

Decimus_Rex

Elyna wrote: »

Not kidding. Vet lvling is arguably the worse part of this game. It basically turned into a Korean MMO with the grinding. And theres no real incentive to lvl anyway, theres no instant gear reward, no faction goodies, all we get are 3 outfits. Which are cool and all, but you need to give people more reason to go on a grind quest.

Dear Sir or Madam:

I would like to take the opportunity to offer to purchase the rights for the use of your Header title as a possible option to convert it into a screen play.

"Vet level took my motivation out back and beat it to death with an aluminum baseball bat"

This provocative title would surely have to be shortened to a manageable marquee size for obvious reasons but none the less, I believe you have a wonderful piece of intellectual property that could gross millions if marketed correctly.

My revision of this spectacular title could Possibly be

JOE PESCI ..took my motivation out back and beat it to death with an aluminum baseball bat.

Well no, still to long, how about

JOE PESCI beat my motivation to death with an aluminum baseball bat.

DAMMIT ! Still to long

Here, what about this one?

JOE PESCI The aluminum baseball bat Don That beat me to death

Better? NO! Scratch that, ruins any element of foreshadowing

Oh never mind, your title will take to much work just to get it to fit on a bill board I give up

cparker15

I just wanted to add my perspective to this topic. It seems like I'm in the minority. I fell in love with the Elder Scrolls lore when I was introduced to the saga with Skyrim. I was hoping that, one day, there would be a multiplayer version of Skyrim where I could share the experience with others. The scenery, the storyline, everything, was so marvelous that I couldn't wait for the next installment

Now, with my one and only character at VR4, I'm still satisfied with the result. I couldn't be happier that Zenimax/Bethesda created a game that plays like a multiplayer Skyrim. It truly feels to me like they've taken people like me, who couldn't care less about a game being "MMO-like", into consideration when developing this game. People shouting about how this game is unlike [inser other MMO here] confuse me. In my opinion, ESO should play like an Elder Scrolls game, but with a multiplayer component. It shouldn't try to copycat an "MMO" model. I didn't sign up for this game to play "yet another MMO". If I wanted to do that, I'd be playing an EverQuest game, or World of Warcraft, or any of the other "Me, too!" games that have popped up out of the woodworks in the past decade.

If you want to play a run-of-the-mill MMO, then you're playing the wrong game. You're not going to find it in ESO. Nor should you.

The Elder Scrolls franchise has always been about delivering the best, most developed story to the player possible. By enabling a player to experience things from all factions with a single character, we get the benefit of a full storyline picture, so we can develop further attachment to the story and the lore. To empathize with one's "enemy" is to truly understand them, and therefore oneself.

It's my hope that, upon completing all three factions' story arcs, there will be a way to reconcile all three factions' differences and bring them all together under one unified banner. Unless a single character lived through the lives of all three "sides" to this silly war, that just wouldn't work out very well with regard to developing the story.

I would never see myself creating more than one character in the game. What's the point? I'm playing for the story. Not to game the system, or rack up the most stuff, or anything like that. I don't want this game to turn into a throwaway game, where everything is cheapened by farming, "grinding" (whatever the hell that is), or any other MMO-esque lingo you MMO fanatics have invented.

Gripe all you want. It's your right. And complaining loudly enough may get enough attention to make the game more playable to more people. And it should follow that, the more people there are who play, the more enjoyable the game should be for everyone. So go ahead, whine, complain, bellyache until your face turns blue. But understand that there are players among you who just find your incessant nagging about how this game isn't "MMO" enough for you highly irritating, and ultimately wish you would just go away and let the rest of us true "Elder Scrolls" fans play in peace.

steveb16_ESO46

Nobody is saying it's not MMO enough. They are saying VR is boring and the story insults their intelligence. It's great you like it because it's going to need a lot of you to keep paying subs.

You like it - others don't. No one is right or wrong.

I'm a 'true scotsman Elder Scrolls fan' and that's why when I've finished the excellent faction story my sub will lapse. I'd have had a lot of fun in what is a very good looking and very entertaining single player game with some optional MMO bits attached.

And BTW 'grinding' is what some of us experience VR content as. Boring, pointless and not fun at all.

You don't experience it as that, which is good. ESO is designed for players like you. Enjoy.

Adramelach

cparker15 wrote: »

The Elder Scrolls franchise has always been about delivering the best, most developed story to the player possible. By enabling a player to experience things from all factions with a single character, we get the benefit of a full storyline picture, so we can develop further attachment to the story and the lore. To empathize with one's "enemy" is to truly understand them, and therefore oneself.

...

I would never see myself creating more than one character in the game. What's the point? I'm playing for the story. Not to game the system, or rack up the most stuff, or anything like that. I don't want this game to turn into a throwaway game, where everything is cheapened by farming, "grinding" (whatever the hell that is), or any other MMO-esque lingo you MMO fanatics have invented.

It would be really cool if the game actually allowed you to evolve like that, and didn't beat you into the ground upon landing in alliance #2, where you're running away from roving bands of skeevers after just defeating the God of Schemes.

steveb16_ESO46

Adramelach wrote: »

It would be really cool if the game actually allowed you to evolve like that, and didn't beat you into the ground upon landing in alliance #2, where you're running away from roving bands of skeevers after just defeating the God of Schemes.

Well I guess the inexplicably super-powered wild-life explains why there are no alliance people about. Just a whole bunch of traitors from another faction charging about like they own the place.

The skeevers and the mud crabs got them all.

Ohioastro

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Ohioastro wrote: »

So - we'd be better off if we couldn't advance our characters at all past 50? We'd be better off if we couldn't experience more than 1/3 of the stories on one character? If we could do mechanical grinding to "get to the end game"?

Strawmen argument by the field-load there.

The issue is the horrible over-tuning of the mobs to make the questing experience a truly horrible grind. There was no reason the leveling pace should have changed post-50.

In fact the whole concept of 'veteran ranks' is superfluous, they should have been levels 51-60.

I 'get' some players want a 'challenge' and that's where OPTIONAL content like group instances and raids belong, LEVELING content should be this insane grind.

Since ZOS are continually raising the level cap the argument for 'end-game' difficulty is spurious, Craglorn isn't end-game, just like VR10 wasn't before Craglorn.

I suppose that it's possible that the designers are fools. It's more likely that they had reasons for doing what they did.

From the point of view of PvP I think that you really don't want to make people have to invest 300+ hours into the game to be competitive. So, ideally, the difference between VR1 and VR10 should not be that large - there is very good game logic to diminishing returns at high levels.

As far as the difficulty goes - this is a perpetual struggle in MMOs. People like me view games as puzzles of a sort, and simple puzzles are boring. A lot of MMO players want to succeed the first time without putting a lot of effort in - and resent anything where they might fail. This is the impulse to run to the message boards and demand that the game be changed, rather than going to get advice on how to succeed.

I think that it's destructive - because it never ends. I saw this in LOTRO - where, first, people wanted the more challenging content to be optional. Then they wanted to make sure that there was no extra reward for it (because it wasn't fair that the "hardcore" players could get better items). Then they demanded that it be eliminated completely - as it bothered some people that there were quests that they couldn't clear out. The net effect was utterly trivial game play, where you could win everything with autoattacks. The vet content isn't "overtuned" - it provides a more challenging game experience than the regular content. I don't mind providing alternatives, but sanding it down completely is another matter.

Worstluck

cparker15 wrote: »

I just wanted to add my perspective to this topic. It seems like I'm in the minority. I fell in love with the Elder Scrolls lore when I was introduced to the saga with Skyrim. I was hoping that, one day, there would be a multiplayer version of Skyrim where I could share the experience with others. The scenery, the storyline, everything, was so marvelous that I couldn't wait for the next installment

Now, with my one and only character at VR4, I'm still satisfied with the result. I couldn't be happier that Zenimax/Bethesda created a game that plays like a multiplayer Skyrim. It truly feels to me like they've taken people like me, who couldn't care less about a game being "MMO-like", into consideration when developing this game. People shouting about how this game is unlike [inser other MMO here] confuse me. In my opinion, ESO should play like an Elder Scrolls game, but with a multiplayer component. It shouldn't try to copycat an "MMO" model. I didn't sign up for this game to play "yet another MMO". If I wanted to do that, I'd be playing an EverQuest game, or World of Warcraft, or any of the other "Me, too!" games that have popped up out of the woodworks in the past decade.

If you want to play a run-of-the-mill MMO, then you're playing the wrong game. You're not going to find it in ESO. Nor should you.

The Elder Scrolls franchise has always been about delivering the best, most developed story to the player possible. By enabling a player to experience things from all factions with a single character, we get the benefit of a full storyline picture, so we can develop further attachment to the story and the lore. To empathize with one's "enemy" is to truly understand them, and therefore oneself.

It's my hope that, upon completing all three factions' story arcs, there will be a way to reconcile all three factions' differences and bring them all together under one unified banner. Unless a single character lived through the lives of all three "sides" to this silly war, that just wouldn't work out very well with regard to developing the story.

I would never see myself creating more than one character in the game. What's the point? I'm playing for the story. Not to game the system, or rack up the most stuff, or anything like that. I don't want this game to turn into a throwaway game, where everything is cheapened by farming, "grinding" (whatever the hell that is), or any other MMO-esque lingo you MMO fanatics have invented.

Gripe all you want. It's your right. And complaining loudly enough may get enough attention to make the game more playable to more people. And it should follow that, the more people there are who play, the more enjoyable the game should be for everyone. So go ahead, whine, complain, bellyache until your face turns blue. But understand that there are players among you who just find your incessant nagging about how this game isn't "MMO" enough for you highly irritating, and ultimately wish you would just go away and let the rest of us true "Elder Scrolls" fans play in peace.

Hate to break it to you, when you complete Cadwell's Gold, he gives you a crappy blue necklace that still has level 50 stats (when I completed it, the necklace was still level 50). There is nothing else, no story, no lore, no nothing. Just a 'here, take this crappy reward. oh and we sent you a nice costume in the mail!'. The story does not continue at all. You have nothing to do except head to Craglorn or go to Cyrodiil, work on achievements (achievements are not content) and upgrade your gear.

Furthermore, I don't know if this game could even be more 'run of the mill' at max level. There is nothing to do but a raid, some pvp, and a some veteran dungeons when you reach max level.

I applaud your bright-eyed approach though, I was the same way a month ago too.

Ohioastro

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

Animus0724 wrote: »

The people complaining about vet areas being "boring" are obviously not TES fans.

i've been a TES fan for longer than some of you have been alive. And that's absolutely and precisely why I find the VR grind not worth doing and the hand-waving excuse to send us into stories that make no sense at all no matter how frantic the hand-waving, utterly risible.

My first game was Arena and I disagree with you. Opinions are wonderful that way.

Runoff

Same here. Enjoyed 1-50 , Learnt how to dodge v1-v5 basically done every quest/dolmen/world boss. v5+ the Mob heavy attack damage killed enjoyment for me. Ended up v8-v12 in Crag. Nothing to do now bar AvA which is too laggy atm so back enjoying 1-50 on alt.

Paladin_echo1

nelsonus_ESO wrote: »

I also want to point out that VR12's beat down lower VR players in Cyrodil. Which means to really be at a level playing field you have to get to VR12.

I missed the craglorn free VR exp train before they nerfed it, so now Cyrodil has a million VR12 players and I am stuck grinding at half the exp that they got.

Also don't let the other VR12 players tell you how you should grind. A large portion of all of them did spindleclutch and other things similar to it. These are the same players that cried about Craglorn AFTER they got all the loot they wanted to sell back to you. These are those original exploiting V12s. May they be beaten, tarred and feathered.

Vis

Vet level grinding is what is stopping me from creating alts for all 4 classes.

Worstluck

Vis wrote: »

Vet level grinding is what is stopping me from creating alts for all 4 classes.

I am the opposite lol. The lack of anything to do at VR12, and the boredom of trying to level my VR3 up has driven me to play low level alts. I made a melee sorcerer the other day and am just taking it extremely slow. If nothing changes by the time he is VR1, I guess I'll just play my low level templar

starlizard70ub17_ESO

Adramelach wrote: »

It would be really cool if the game actually allowed you to evolve like that, and didn't beat you into the ground upon landing in alliance #2, where you're running away from roving bands of skeevers after just defeating the God of Schemes.

I learned to really hate those rats after a group of them killed me right after I'd just finished killing 2 VR3 Bloodfiends. Seems I accidentally backed into their zone and....well you can guess the rest.

Rivqua

I know, let's do a rollback and make the cap 50. That will solve all the problems. No more vet levels to think about. Ooo yea on that rollback, we also will take away what you gained after hitting level 50. Cuz you can not have anything that you gained after level 50..
Problem solved..
YAY me

Nukeyak

Zakq wrote: »

Are you enjoying the other faction stories? . My suggestion is to maybe read more lorebooks or join a guild. If the game isn't fun anymore maybe you should take a break and play another game like Titanfall, etc..

I have never road a lore book cover to cover, in fact I can only claim that for a select few rl books. Has anybody purchased this game just to read the lorebooks, racing thru all the annoying combat and so forth?

Belitseri

Nukeyak wrote: »

Zakq wrote: »

Are you enjoying the other faction stories? . My suggestion is to maybe read more lorebooks or join a guild. If the game isn't fun anymore maybe you should take a break and play another game like Titanfall, etc..

I have never road a lore book cover to cover, in fact I can only claim that for a select few rl books. Has anybody purchased this game just to read the lorebooks, racing thru all the annoying combat and so forth?

Actually...

Kinda.

Of course, I'm not playing an MMO just for the lore books, but I do enjoy them greatly! Lore books are probably the reason I'm not vr12 now... oh, and skeevers, I guess.

Jaxom

I hit my wall when I went into the VR7 zone (this was post Craglorn) and there was maybe 1 other person on the map. Not only was it impossible to do the anchor and worldbosses but having a completely empty zone is not fun.

With some of the recent changes to PvP experience, I've actually been leveling at a similar tick to VR Questing. Went from VR7-VR9 just by PvP-ing in probably 2 weeks. Sad part is, in the last 3 days, I've been doing Craglorn grinding groups (post nerf) and went from VR9-almost VR11 (will hit it tonight) in like 3 days of grinding roughly 3 hours a night.

My plan is to grind out the rest of VR12 (should hit before the end of this week), JUST do Cadwell Gold quests (because I want the satisfaction of knowing I finished ALL the story quests), and gear up from Trials/PvP.

Grageeky

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Well over 50% of the player base is unhappy with VR content for one reason or another. 48% alone find it over tuned. Considering that it's mandatory for progression, this is a big time problem. Regardless of your individual taste, when 50%+ of paying subscribers dislike your product, you have a serious problem.

1-50 was fabulous. VR not so much.

98% of statistics are made up on the spot.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/99207/how-much-trouble-do-you-have-with-veteran-content/p1

His statement is accurate.

steveb16_ESO46

Ohioastro wrote: »

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

Animus0724 wrote: »

The people complaining about vet areas being "boring" are obviously not TES fans.

i've been a TES fan for longer than some of you have been alive. And that's absolutely and precisely why I find the VR grind not worth doing and the hand-waving excuse to send us into stories that make no sense at all no matter how frantic the hand-waving, utterly risible.

My first game was Arena and I disagree with you. Opinions are wonderful that way.

Yea. My first game was Arena also. Awesome game.

And in the end the only opinions that actually matters are the guys funding Zenimax.

I posted their names in some thread. Not one charity among them. It's they who'll decide what happens to ESO.

Not you, not I and not Fiore.

devincutlerb14_ESO

I don't understand the complaints about veteran content as content. How can it be boring from a content point of view?

If you enjoyed the content from level 1-50, you are effectively just, at veteran level, playing the same enjoyable content for the other factions. In other words, let's say you played as an AD faction for 1-50 and enjoyed the content. Content-wise, there would be no difference between rolling up an alt and playing the EP faction or playing your veteran character through the veteran EP content.

So the issue should not be one of "boring" content.

That leaves:

1) Veteran content is too hard

2) You find it "boring" because you don't get enough good stuff for your effort

I think both of the above two reasons can sometimes point to a mindset of wanting to speed through content and get phat lootz as quickly and easily as possible. I have no sympathy for this mindset.

I might find merit in the too hard argument except that too hard is entirely too subjective. Too hard for what? Too hard to complete at all? NO WAY! I play one of the least optimized builds in the game and I am a sucky player and I have gone well into VR8 content.

Too hard to enjoy? I guess that depends on how you enjoy content. I like a good challenge. I don't like dying endlessly, but I do like dying if I make a mistake, and in most cases that's how I die in veteran content. But death is not a big deal. There's not a lot else to spend your gold on but to repair armour and at VR levels you should have stacks of soul gems, so you don't even have to run back from a wayshrine. Yes I have to sneak around more in veteran content and avoid groups of 3 mobs unless I have my ultimate up....but sneaking is part of the strategy IMO....a lot more strategy than just running up and mashing a couple of buttons and decimating mobs right and left.

Too hard to blaze through at lightning speed? No sympathy.

Alphashado

This just happened from an npc that was inside a house casting spells through a wall.

I'm not sure which part is more ridiculous. The fact that this npc was casting though walls, the part where her spells hit for 3x the damage of any of my spells, or the part where this is a common theme in VR lvls.

This isn't a boss. This is trash mob. This crap has to change.

Worstluck

Inb4 dodge, or did you see the red stuff, or l2p.

(Sorry I had to...this all you get when you talk about ridiculous damage these trash mobs do).

tordr86b16_ESO

Hey, what did you expect from this company? The difficulty scaling in Skyrim was horrible there as well. Legendary mode simply increases their damage by 3 times, just like in ESO it seems.

Adramelach

Alphashado wrote: »

This just happened from an npc that was inside a house casting spells through a wall.

I'm not sure which part is more ridiculous. The fact that this npc was casting though walls, the part where her spells hit for 3x the damage of any of my spells, or the part where this is a common theme in VR lvls.

This isn't a boss. This is trash mob. This crap has to change.

Exactly - thanks for the screen shot. THAT is why I think Vet content is too difficult, because these mobs (and some bosses) have pumped-up attacks that will kill you in one or two shots, and sometimes because of lag or bugs or simply not having perfect reflexes every time, you can't get away fast enough. I don't like that kind of "challenge". to me, that's just frustration.

Loco_Mofo

Alphashado wrote: »

I'm not sure which part is more ridiculous. The fact that this npc was casting though walls, the part where her spells hit for 3x the damage of any of my spells, or the part where this is a common theme in VR lvls.

This isn't a boss. This is trash mob. This crap has to change.

Gotta love those homing fireballs that even walls can't slow down.