Are Imperial Racial Skills too powerful?

Vunter

At the maximum levels of the skills, imperials gain:
+12% health from Tough
+10% stamina from Conditioning
10% chance to restore 6 health on every melee attack from Red Diamond.

In my opinion, yes. And I have the imperial edition, the money argument is just stupid, but since some people may think that I added the option.
Tough needs a nerf (-2% at least, -4% maximum, in my opinion) and Conditioning should be replaced by another stamina recovery skill or a new skill since Redguards have this skill too and they don't need a nerf.
Red Diamond isn't an issue.

Furthermore, the description of the race in the character creation screen says something like "their skills reflect their ability in combat and diplomacy".
Conditioning could be replaced by a skill that gives a 6% stamina bonus and a discount at npc vendors and repairing cost.

nerevarine1138

No, they aren't.

Every race has a passive that others would consider "OP" in specific situations. It makes the races unique; stop asking for homogenization.

Blackwidow

Yes, they are.

I just voted yes to make you feel good about your post. I have no clue.

Vunter

Yes, they are.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Every race has a passive that others would consider "OP" in specific situations. It makes the races unique; stop asking for homogenization.

Did you even read what I wrote? I don't ask for a huge nerf. And the uniquity of imperials in TES games was always that they were good negotiators, not being tanks that have a huge health and stamina.

Sindala

Nerf Orc's then....they run faster than anyone else and that's a big plus in PvP.
Lizards get health regen in battle ect.
They all get bonuses and restrictions, that's the whole point of choice.

The only thing I would really love a Dev to reply on about the Imperial race is....What the hell does Luck affect????

Doctoruniverse

Nerf nerf nerf dont you people ever get tired of yourselves ?

Aeaeren

Vunter wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Every race has a passive that others would consider "OP" in specific situations. It makes the races unique; stop asking for homogenization.

Did you even read what I wrote? I don't ask for a huge nerf. And the uniquity of imperials in TES games was always that they were good negotiators, not being tanks that have a huge health and stamina.

But why ask period? I mean you guys saying this or that is OP is just getting stupid. I lost to so and so and it's not because he had uber skills no it's because he used this OP power that needs to be slightly adjusted. JUST PLAY THE GAME and learn to deal with it!

hk11

No, they aren't.

The somewhat powerful racial of the Imperial is countered by the players inability to make a decent looking imperial character. It's fine.

LadyDestiny

No, they aren't.

Good thing the majority said no, or there would be a nerf coming lol

adam.s.jonesub17_ESO

No, they aren't.

High Elves are farm more op than imps as a class. With soft caps those values are less impactful in the VR levels than you think. Also your stats on red diamond are just based on the skill tip. Did you even play this race to figure it out before you posted requesting a nerf? This part of the reason we are playing nerf tennis in this game and its getting old.

Limitless

No, they aren't.

You've got to be kidding me..

You really think Imperials are an OP race? Especially when ESO is so Magicka built right now, Imperials are still OP?

Nerf High Elf before Imperial.

Red Diamond is a 10% chance on hit, not some crazy number like 50%.
As a 2H, Bow, and Resto Templar Imperial it barely ever pings.

(Note, I'm not saying nerf anything. Just saying that if you're going to nerf a class it might as well be the one that has the most to do with the best build in the game"

Wifeaggro13

No, they aren't.

Considering all those passives are melee based they are pretty friggin worthless

BrassRazoo

So now it's the Imperials turn ... a class that hardly anyone plays except those that payed a little extra.
Give me a break.

EnikSleestak

I wonder what the psychological profile is for individuals who start nerf threads?

Tabbycat

No, they aren't.

Their racial bonuses are pretty much in line with the Orc.

nerevarine1138

No, they aren't.

Vunter wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Every race has a passive that others would consider "OP" in specific situations. It makes the races unique; stop asking for homogenization.

Did you even read what I wrote? I don't ask for a huge nerf. And the uniquity of imperials in TES games was always that they were good negotiators, not being tanks that have a huge health and stamina.

Well, since the social meter from Oblivion didn't make the game (thank Talos), being good at diplomacy obviously isn't going to be a real help in ESO.

Imperials are just as strong/weak as any other race.

Aoifesan

No, they aren't.

EnikSleestak wrote: »

I wonder what the psychological profile is for individuals who start nerf threads?

They are tiny. Tiny minds. Tiny bodies. Tiny self worth.

Bhakura

No, they aren't.

On that note nerf argonians, they swim to fast, if i have to swim im slow no fair. Nerf dark elves, they to dark.
Nerf high elves, they to high.
Nerf woodelves, they to small.
Nerf redguards, they to red.
Nerf nords, they drink to much and run around naked THINK OF THE CHILDREN !
Nerf bretons, they to ... um brittish, whatever.
Nerf orcs, to big teeth.
Nerf khajit, bunch of junkies.

Vunter

Yes, they are.

Ok people, I understand your points, but geez, you really need to calm down.
I asked your opinions, that's why I made a poll.
Try to be constructive and don't just come here and think "it's a nerf, it's bad, it's the end of the world, Alduin will destroy us all".
I just taught +12% health and +10% stamina for Imperials were too high.

EnikSleestak

Doctoruniverse wrote: »

Nerf nerf nerf dont you people ever get tired of yourselves ?

It's every new MMO now. They create such a ruckus on the forums that the endless balancing cycle starts and it just tears your heart out to have your character and playstyle that you've developed constantly shifting; especially when life doesn't leave you much playtime.

Besides bug fixing, stick to your vision ZOS and avoid the trap of endlessly "balancing classes." Work on content and fix existing skills.

nerevarine1138

No, they aren't.

Vunter wrote: »

Ok people, I understand your points, but geez, you really need to calm down.
I asked your opinions, that's why I made a poll.
Try to be constructive and don't just come here and think "it's a nerf, it's bad, it's the end of the world, Alduin will destroy us all".
I just taught +12% health and +10% stamina for Imperials were too high.

And now you're discovering that very few people share your opinion.

Lodestar

No, they aren't.

Vunter wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Every race has a passive that others would consider "OP" in specific situations. It makes the races unique; stop asking for homogenization.

Did you even read what I wrote? I don't ask for a huge nerf. And the uniquity of imperials in TES games was always that they were good negotiators, not being tanks that have a huge health and stamina.

Hmm... fair enough point. It does seem like quite a departure. Going from diplomats and traders to this. Not sure I feel they are OP though.

Estridde

No, they aren't.

Vunter wrote: »

Ok people, I understand your points, but geez, you really need to calm down.
I asked your opinions, that's why I made a poll.
Try to be constructive and don't just come here and think "it's a nerf, it's bad, it's the end of the world, Alduin will destroy us all".
I just taught +12% health and +10% stamina for Imperials were too high.

Yes, and nine people sort of agree with you. Everyone else, not so much. You asked, we answered.

Imperials really don't offer an advantage over other races as nearly each race has one or two passives that make said race desirable. If there wasn't, why would we play them?

Zabalah

Vunter wrote: »

At the maximum levels of the skills, imperials gain:
+12% health from Tough
+10% stamina from Conditioning
10% chance to restore 6 health on every melee attack from Red Diamond.

In my opinion, yes. And I have the imperial edition, the money argument is just stupid, but since some people may think that I added the option.
Tough needs a nerf (-2% at least, -4% maximum, in my opinion) and Conditioning should be replaced by another stamina recovery skill or a new skill since Redguards have this skill too and they don't need a nerf.
Red Diamond isn't an issue.

Furthermore, the description of the race in the character creation screen says something like "their skills reflect their ability in combat and diplomacy".
Conditioning could be replaced by a skill that gives a 6% stamina bonus and a discount at npc vendors and repairing cost.

Where do you come up with all these numbers? Are you on the development team with access to their algorithms? Do you or have you played other Factions to make comparisons?

Vunter

Yes, they are.

Zabalah wrote: »

Vunter wrote: »

At the maximum levels of the skills, imperials gain:
+12% health from Tough
+10% stamina from Conditioning
10% chance to restore 6 health on every melee attack from Red Diamond.

In my opinion, yes. And I have the imperial edition, the money argument is just stupid, but since some people may think that I added the option.
Tough needs a nerf (-2% at least, -4% maximum, in my opinion) and Conditioning should be replaced by another stamina recovery skill or a new skill since Redguards have this skill too and they don't need a nerf.
Red Diamond isn't an issue.

Furthermore, the description of the race in the character creation screen says something like "their skills reflect their ability in combat and diplomacy".
Conditioning could be replaced by a skill that gives a 6% stamina bonus and a discount at npc vendors and repairing cost.

Where do you come up with all these numbers? Are you on the development team with access to their algorithms? Do you or have you played other Factions to make comparisons?

I'm pretty sure racial skills are "static".

dodgehopper_ESO

No, they aren't.

Imperials aren't even close to overpowered. If anything they are underpowered and I'll tell you why. Firstly, when I made my Imperial, I did so for story reasons not for power reasons. Originally my main character was going to be a Redgard Templar. The storyline regarding Cyrodil was far too compelling to remain with that concept when Imperials came up, and furthermore were conducive to being an in your face tank. Sadly, the melee build is hurting right now, but even setting that aside, its not overpowered. Redgard and Imperial are essentially the same. Redgard is simply more focused on Stamina, which might arguably be better.

Now lets look at another race that most people seem to think is a bad one: Argonians. Argonian passives improve any form of self heal whether it be from Potions or Abilty based heals, whether you cast it yourself or someone else does. I'm fairly certain that a reliable heal boost instead of something relying on 10% RNG to succeed with small proc is better. If that wasn't enough, Argonians also have the cool swim speed, which is just plain fun and pure icing on the cake. They have a strong Poison and Disease Resistance, which you might scoff at til someone spams poison arrow on you a lot.. and I suspect its usefulness will come up in raiding in the future. Finally they get a little boost to max health, nothing huge mind you, but its not bad. I'd argue the Argonian is actually better at this role, and it doesn't rely on being in Melee alone. Red Diamond does not work on Bows or Staffs, so its not as confining.

Next you have the Altmer and Bretons, whose innates are far more useful for every Class ability, and most every other ability you use in game except for weapons. Even if you're a weapon user their skills are useful because of the power of class abilities.

Nord and Orc Tankiness is nice because their benefits are useful in all situations. NPC frost mages come up quite a lot, and being able to run fast is always useful. They also get other nice tank abilities that enhance regen, stats, etc. Nords have a nice Armor buff which makes wearing Medium armor a lot more feasible for that tank build, or even robes. They both get a good health regen speed. Orc gets a nice +6% boost to health and stamina, Nord gets a moderate +3% health (but don't forget that armor boost, allowing for lighter armors).

Now how about the Dunmer, who make fantastic mages, particularly fire mages, but likewise get fantastic stamina boosts and fire resists as well (The most common magical damage). When all is said and done they have Max Magicka + 9%, Max Stamina + 6%, The strongest Fire damage passive buff, and A strong Fire resistance.

Khajit and Bosmer are the kings of sneak attacks, with Khajit being slightly better at it because of the crits (but that's assuming you use bows or melee weapons). They're niche characters also in this regard, in that their passives lead you down a path toward sneakiness (though it doesn't force it).

In short, I think the notion of nerfing Imperials is just a bad idea. Red Diamond is not as great a passive as a lot of people think. Its nice when it procs but its terribly unreliable and hugely dependent on melee. The magnitude of the heal that it procs you with is likewise not that amazing. From a storyline perspective, Imperials were excellent at war, and their culture comes from a hodgepodge refinement of Nord/Nedic ideals intermixed with some elven, and other human intermixture. In this era, I can certainly see their warrior sides coming out, and frankly up until this game I never wanted to play an Imperial because they were A) Ugly, Misshapen, and C) Sucked.

I think you simply don't understand how weak and situational Red Diamond is. Ten melee attacks on average to get one very tiny burst of health. Sorry, I think I'd rather take Orc or Nord Health Regen, or Argonian passive boost to self heals and potions: It would be a lot more useful and reliable, and it wouldn't require me to melee to use it.

All of this being said, I would like to see them find a way to open up the Imperial race to other players, perhaps they could sell it on their market, like that stupid horse they have for sale.

Vunter

Yes, they are.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Imperials aren't even close to overpowered. If anything they are underpowered and I'll tell you why. Firstly, when I made my Imperial, I did so for story reasons not for power reasons. Originally my main character was going to be a Redgard Templar. The storyline regarding Cyrodil was far too compelling to remain with that concept when Imperials came up, and furthermore were conducive to being an in your face tank. Sadly, the melee build is hurting right now, but even setting that aside, its not overpowered. Redgard and Imperial are essentially the same. Redgard is simply more focused on Stamina, which might arguably be better.

Now lets look at another race that most people seem to think is a bad one: Argonians. Argonian passives improve any form of self heal whether it be from Potions or Abilty based heals, whether you cast it yourself or someone else does. I'm fairly certain that a reliable heal boost instead of something relying on 10% RNG to succeed with small proc is better. If that wasn't enough, Argonians also have the cool swim speed, which is just plain fun and pure icing on the cake. They have a strong Poison and Disease Resistance, which you might scoff at til someone spams poison arrow on you a lot.. and I suspect its usefulness will come up in raiding in the future. Finally they get a little boost to max health, nothing huge mind you, but its not bad. I'd argue the Argonian is actually better at this role, and it doesn't rely on being in Melee alone. Red Diamond does not work on Bows or Staffs, so its not as confining.

Next you have the Altmer and Bretons, whose innates are far more useful for every Class ability, and most every other ability you use in game except for weapons. Even if you're a weapon user their skills are useful because of the power of class abilities.

Nord and Orc Tankiness is nice because their benefits are useful in all situations. NPC frost mages come up quite a lot, and being able to run fast is always useful. They also get other nice tank abilities that enhance regen, stats, etc. Nords have a nice Armor buff which makes wearing Medium armor a lot more feasible for that tank build, or even robes. They both get a good health regen speed. Orc gets a nice +6% boost to health and stamina, Nord gets a moderate +3% health (but don't forget that armor boost, allowing for lighter armors).

Now how about the Dunmer, who make fantastic mages, particularly fire mages, but likewise get fantastic stamina boosts and fire resists as well (The most common magical damage). When all is said and done they have Max Magicka + 9%, Max Stamina + 6%, The strongest Fire damage passive buff, and A strong Fire resistance.

Khajit and Bosmer are the kings of sneak attacks, with Khajit being slightly better at it because of the crits (but that's assuming you use bows or melee weapons). They're niche characters also in this regard, in that their passives lead you down a path toward sneakiness (though it doesn't force it).

In short, I think the notion of nerfing Imperials is just a bad idea. Red Diamond is not as great a passive as a lot of people think. Its nice when it procs but its terribly unreliable and hugely dependent on melee. The magnitude of the heal that it procs you with is likewise not that amazing. From a storyline perspective, Imperials were excellent at war, and their culture comes from a hodgepodge refinement of Nord/Nedic ideals intermixed with some elven, and other human intermixture. In this era, I can certainly see their warrior sides coming out, and frankly up until this game I never wanted to play an Imperial because they were A) Ugly, Misshapen, and C) Sucked.

I think you simply don't understand how weak and situational Red Diamond is. Ten melee attacks on average to get one very tiny burst of health. Sorry, I think I'd rather take Orc or Nord Health Regen, or Argonian passive boost to self heals and potions: It would be a lot more useful and reliable, and it wouldn't require me to melee to use it.

All of this being said, I would like to see them find a way to open up the Imperial race to other players, perhaps they could sell it on their market, like that stupid horse they have for sale.

Thanks for the reply, really
This is the perfect kind of answer I wanted on this topic: useful and not offensive ^^

Mescalamba

Not so sure 12% HP is overpowered. Simple math says that with 3K HP you get 360 HP extra. Doesnt seem as big deal to me.

Plus they are "reward" for real life money you spent. Im sure owners would be bit disappointed if they didnt get that something "extra".

Also Red Diamond seems worthless.. If anything I would either change that racial or buffed it a lot.

reggielee

Yes, but since it's a "premium" race it's right.

I voted yes, but its premium just to be sassy.

tbh, i have imperial and I dont want to play my imperial class at all, they are such arrogant arses.

caelumpanache

No, they aren't.

Racial abilities are supposed to be powerful. Imperials abilities aren't even the most powerful. If anything, I would say buff a few of the less played races to make them a little more viable.

BBSooner

No, they aren't.

Damage increasing racials are far more useful at this point in the game than stat increasing racials. It won't be until the super creep starts to set in and were running 20k - 30k resource pools that the racials will actually make a difference. As it is now my resource increases are barely noticeable.