Why do the crafted set bonuses seem to favour magicka builds? Stamina builds get the shaft

Valn

Magicka Builds

Twilight's Embrace [5/5] 5% spell crit

Night Mother's Gaze [5/5] 5% spell crit

Willow's Path [3/5] 5% spell crit

Ashen Grip [5/5] 14 magicka recovery

Seducer [3/5] Reduce cost of spells 3%
[5/5] 14 magicka recovery

Magnus's gift [3/5] 5% chance free spell
[5/5] Add 105 max magicka

Oblivion's Foe [3/5] 14 Magicka recovery

Spectres Eye [3/5] adds 105 max magicka
[5/5] 20% dodge for 3 seconds after using magicka

Eyes of Mara [5/5] 3% less magicka cost when using resortation staff

Shalidor's Curse [3/5] Adds 14 magicka recovery

Stamina builds:

Nights Silence - [5/5] 5% weapon crit

Hundings Rage - [3/5] 14 stamina recovery
[5/5] +20% damage with weapon abilities

Kagrenac's Hope - [3/5] Adds 12 stamina recovery


Obviously with the non-crafted sets it's a bit more equal. But crafting sets really seem to favour magicka builds. I'd really like to see more crafted sets based around stamina and melee users.

Amsel_McKay

Orgnum's Scales 3 Items Adds 157 Max Health. 5 Items If below 50% Health, increase Health Revoery by 50%.

The Arena 3 Items 157 Max Health. 4 Items Adds 350 Armor. 5 Items Reduce cost of CC Break by 15%.

Kagrenac's Hope 3 Items Adds 14 Stamina Recovery. 5 Items Decrease time to resurrect an ally by 25%.

Night Mother's Gaze 3 Items Critical attacks also reduce the targets armor by 20% for 5 seconds. 5 Items Adds 5% Spell Critical.

Valn

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Orgnum's Scales 3 Items Adds 157 Max Health. 5 Items If below 50% Health, increase Health Revoery by 50%.

The Arena 3 Items 157 Max Health. 4 Items Adds 350 Armor. 5 Items Reduce cost of CC Break by 15%.

Kagrenac's Hope 3 Items Adds 14 Stamina Recovery. 5 Items Decrease time to resurrect an ally by 25%.

Night Mother's Gaze 3 Items Critical attacks also reduce the targets armor by 20% for 5 seconds. 5 Items Adds 5% Spell Critical.

i'm mainly listing the things specific to magicka and stamina builds, for example all classes can take use of the night mothers gaze [3/5] bonus.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

We don't have details to provide yet, but this is something we're working to address. We agree that there's a need for improvements to set bonuses for stamina builds.

Valn

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We don't have details to provide yet, but this is something we're working to address. We agree that there's a need for improvements to set bonuses for stamina builds.

Thanks for making us aware that you are aware of this issue

Amsel_McKay

But you know the problem... All class skills are magic based... so all armor that has magic "effects" are useful in all builds. The problem is not the armor, its how the game was designed... if the game was balanced then we would have a problem with crafting bonuses

Tiyamel

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We don't have details to provide yet, but this is something we're working to address. We agree that there's a need for improvements to set bonuses for stamina builds.

awesome thanks for the feedback, glad to know us stamina builds have something to look forward to

Svann

Hunding's Rage gives 11 stamina regen for a 3 piece bonus. A 3 piece bonus.

Bigtuna

Good post, I had wondered myself if there were plans to put in more stamina based "things" into the game. I started off trying to play a s/s DK stamina build and it worked but not as well as my fire mage build.

FrauPerchta

Stamina/Melee as a whole needs to be fixed. But as I has said before many if not most MMO that have magic in them seem to always come out with Magic much more powerful that melee. Usually attempts are made to correct the design flaw about month 3 but unfortunately that "balancing" often drives off the player base which these days means an MMO changes it's payment model to F2P or in some cases a hybrid F2P/P2P like STO or KOTOR

The thought was that mages were glass cannons that needed to shoot and scoot so the big bad and bodacious melees didn't stomp them into a greasy spot in one or two hits. With ESO the glass cannon is a thing of the past because with the right build can easily be a a nuke firing tank that doesn't have to scoot.

Liquid_Time

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We don't have details to provide yet, but this is something we're working to address. We agree that there's a need for improvements to set bonuses for stamina builds.

Despite what you are adjusting in attempt to approve stamina builds.. It is nice to see some light being shined upon this subject.

Looking forward to hear some more regarding this!

Also, there has been some awesome suggestions posted in the past that I hope your team looks at.

tuntuns

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We don't have details to provide yet, but this is something we're working to address. We agree that there's a need for improvements to set bonuses for stamina builds.

You know that this sounds like complete lack of planning during early development stage? Guys come on... Company that manages milions of $ should afford section to regulate such things before release...

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Also, I heard hundings rage set doesn't even increase the damage of melee weapon skills. Lies, truth?

It would be also good to get some news on what they plan on doing about stamina usage in general, like making it so using stamina skills doesn't take away from our survivability. And what will be done so that melee goers aren't 'required' to use melee specific gear sets and 'while slotted' abilities/ultimates like Flawless Dawnbreaker in order to be somewhat as effective damage-wise as magica users who can use any ultimate they wish.

vyal

Also, the Hunding's Rage does not increase your weapon damage by 20%, nor 19%, nor 18%, nor any percentage it states.

Due to the ridiculously (and needlessly) complicated way that damage is calculated in ESO, what you get is less than half of that value, rounded down. Or, if you prefer, the tooltip is a lie.

So if you hit for 100 with a light attack, you'll hit for 108 with a VR6 five piece Hunding's Rage set.

<sarcasm> Hold me back, I may faint at the overpowered nature of such a thing.</sarcasm>
(yes, this means Hunding's Rage is among the worst 5 piece choices, given other options like 10% more healing, flame breath proc, or even 100 more armor, as useless as armor is).

Similarly, all skills that "reduce target armor" by 20, 40, or 50%? Those don't do anything in PvE. They might increase your damage by 1, 3 or 5 damage. Why? NPCs don't wear the "armor" that could be reduced by these abilities.

Given the current PvP/Game design around Bright Wizards 2.0, it's clear the ESO (*cough* Mythic *cough*) devs are still living in their glory days of "dresses and sticks at a distance."

Play like the devs play, or have less "fun". Wee!

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Daethz

Because ZOS intended for every single player in the entire game to utilize nothing but staffs. Obviously.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Well, I just tested hundings rage before I saw that post and its a sad truth. An Uppercut sneak attack crit goes from 2391 to 2485 with hundings rage equipped. That is hardly 21% more. The numbers without sneak attack/crit are even more laughable... like 40 damage increase in the 500's.

Where did they even get 21% from, and did they even test it at all? Oh wait I know, its increasing the already nerfed weapon damage number when you use a weaponskill by 21%, not the damage of the weapon skill so for me increases 160 by 21%....

c0rp

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We don't have details to provide yet, but this is something we're working to address. We agree that there's a need for improvements to set bonuses for stamina builds.

Uhh...stamina builds need A LOT more improvements than "set bonuses". Being required to wear a set to make a stamina build even halfway competitive is entirely asinine.

Frankly, Im quite dissapointed in ZoS lack of acknowledging just how *** stamina builds are right now (dont even get me started on werewolf). Buffing set bonuses is not even close to fixing it. You can pass this along please, thanks.

Ragnar_Lodbrok

c0rp wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We don't have details to provide yet, but this is something we're working to address. We agree that there's a need for improvements to set bonuses for stamina builds.

Uhh...stamina builds need A LOT more improvements than "set bonuses". Being required to wear a set to make a stamina build even halfway competitive is entirely asinine.

Frankly, Im quite dissapointed in ZoS lack of acknowledging just how *** stamina builds are right now (dont even get me started on werewolf). Buffing set bonuses is not even close to fixing it. You can pass this along please, thanks.

Monkees could do better

Robocles

alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »

[Moderator Edit: Edited/Removed quote from moderated post.]

Regardless, this thread is accurate, and is merely pointing out a disparity in crafting options.

Sorry if he hurt your feelings.

Kalanar Highwatch

I tried the Hunding's Rage 5 piece yesterday for the first time at VR7 and it wasn't increaseing my damage by any meaningful amount. I tested it with the 2-handed skill Stampede. I don't have the numbers in front of me but it was something like 317 damage to the bat I was testing on without the bonus and 318 with the bonus. I'm wearing a power enchanted ring and using a +power weapon enchant so maybe I'm hitting the cap, but then I have to question whether the caps are too low if I'm hitting it with a blue quality VR6 maul as a VR7 character.

maxilaub17_ESO

Valn wrote: »

Magicka Builds



Stamina builds:

Nights Silence - [5/5] 5% weapon crit

Hundings Rage - [3/5] 14 stamina recovery
[5/5] +20% damage with weapon abilities

Kagrenac's Hope - [3/5] Adds 12 stamina recovery


Obviously with the non-crafted sets it's a bit more equal. But crafting sets really seem to favour magicka builds. I'd really like to see more crafted sets based around stamina and melee users.

FYI Hunding's Rage has a known bug, the damage bonus with abilities doesn't work. Unfortunately I didn't know this until after I crafted an Epic set, tested it and then read the forums to confirm my test results.... it doesn't work.

I'll give you one example I remember, stampede hit tested mob for 368 without Hundings Rage and 370 with the set bonus. All abilities I tested, executioner, and momentum had similar results. I saw about 1/2% increased damage, not the 21% the set is supposed to give. Someone posted above for uppercut out of stealth they got 94 damage increase (from 2391 to 2485), that would be almost 4%. For the abilities I tested I never saw close to a 4% increase.

At least the 14 Stamina recovery worked....

SirAndy

maxilaub17_ESO wrote: »

I saw about 1/2% increased damage, not the 21% the set is supposed to give.

Maybe they meant to write "2 or 1 %" instead of "21 %" ...
;-)

Wifeaggro13

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We don't have details to provide yet, but this is something we're working to address. We agree that there's a need for improvements to set bonuses for stamina builds.

Jessica there is far more wrong with Stamina then just the sets. We do appreciate your response though. some sort of official "hey we know melee in general is lacking as of now but we are working ion improvements". right now melee players at end game are leaving in bus loads specifcally night blades due to the issue. as well as many Tank type DK's. the community would simmer quite a bit if we knew they would at least Kluge a fix in the near future.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Also why don't you guys just do away with "spell crit" and "weapon crit" and just have "crit", for everything. It would easily alleviate one way to accidently favor magicka builds.

Medium armor would increase Crit, of everything. Mages light would increase crit, of everything. Not set would be super specially geared toward magic or weapon. Certain skill morphs that increase both spell and weapon crit can just plain increase crit. No one would be able to get more crit in one build than the other easily this way.

maxilaub17_ESO wrote: »

Valn wrote: »

Magicka Builds



Stamina builds:

Nights Silence - [5/5] 5% weapon crit

Hundings Rage - [3/5] 14 stamina recovery
[5/5] +20% damage with weapon abilities

Kagrenac's Hope - [3/5] Adds 12 stamina recovery


Obviously with the non-crafted sets it's a bit more equal. But crafting sets really seem to favour magicka builds. I'd really like to see more crafted sets based around stamina and melee users.

FYI Hunding's Rage has a known bug, the damage bonus with abilities doesn't work. Unfortunately I didn't know this until after I crafted an Epic set, tested it and then read the forums to confirm my test results.... it doesn't work.

I'll give you one example I remember, stampede hit tested mob for 368 without Hundings Rage and 370 with the set bonus. All abilities I tested, executioner, and momentum had similar results. I saw about 1/2% increased damage, not the 21% the set is supposed to give. Someone posted above for uppercut out of stealth they got 94 damage increase (from 2391 to 2485), that would be almost 4%. For the abilities I tested I never saw close to a 4% increase.

At least the 14 Stamina recovery worked....

That was me, and that was a upper cut in stealth. I don't know anyone who gets 2391 with an uppercut out of stealth, and if anyone has managed it I would really like to know what set they were using!

Out if sneak its 574 without hundings rage, and 597 with hundings rage. Pretty pathetic increase.

I also have 31 more stamina with hundings rage set fully equipped so that is probably the better part of the damage increase lol.

With the same stamina and no hundings rage it becomes 579 normal and 2461 sneak attack crit. So:

579 -> 597
2408 -> 2485.

So yea pretty crap.

Rioht

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We don't have details to provide yet, but this is something we're working to address. We agree that there's a need for improvements to set bonuses for stamina builds.

Please consider additional set bonues that differ from the typical + magicka/stamina/health regen or +magicka/stamina/health when below whatever %.

Set bonuses need to be unique and create opportunities for players to developed their own builds. +% specific elemental damage, +%dmg to random weapon type (encourages trading if you don't find your weapon type!!!), cool visual effects, +% block DMG mitigation etc etc.

This would drastically add to the itemization that we currently have. Please and thank you.

Lyall84

Hunding's Rage does not buff any weapon abilities. It should, it even says it does, but it does not. The 5 set is currently broken at the moment.

I would hope ZOS is aware of the issue already but if not, here is an explanation. I crafted new sets to make sure my numbers are exact and the controls are not messed with.

Bottom line: the 5 set reads (at VR 9 white quality) "Increases weapon damage by 18% when using weapon abilities". This reads to me that it increases the weapon abilities damage by 18% of the weapon's portion of the damage.

Base Damage:

Completely ungeared (ie naked) my Executioner IV (two handed morph) deals 81 damage.

Gear: All gear listed is white, with no enchantments or traits, unless otherwise listed.

Level 13 vendor bought great sword (Green) = 40 damage.

VR9 crafted great sword = 134 damage.

VR9 crafted medium hunding's rage set (5 pieces) = 18% increase.

Test:
Naked with green level 13 sword, Executioner does 106 damage. So far it can be noted that a about 62% of the weapon's damage is added to the skill's damage.

Naked with white VR9 sword, Executioner does 166 damage. It appears that this weapon added about 63% of the weapon's damage to the skill's damage. Pretty consistent.

5 Piece Hunding's Rage set equipped with green level 13 sword. Executioner tool tip still displays 106 damage. It appears that the set has 0 effect. Set is broken and useless. Should be around 110 damage if you count the set as only increasing the weapons portion of the effect. Would be around 125 if the set counted to the ability as a whole.

5 Piece Hunding's Rage set equipped with white VR9 sword. Executioner tool tip still displays 166 damage. It appears that the set has 0 effect. Set is broken and useless. Should be around 180 damage if you count the set as only increasing the weapons portion of the effect. Would be around 195 if the set counted to the ability as a whole.

Conclusion: a crafted 6 trait requirement, 5 set bonus, that can do nothing but help any type of weapon skill or stamina build, is 100% useless.

S1L3NTKiLLaH

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We don't have details to provide yet, but this is something we're working to address. We agree that there's a need for improvements to set bonuses for stamina builds.

Yeah lol, I bet you are. Along with another patch to require something else to be fixed.

S1L3NTKiLLaH

Tiyamel wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We don't have details to provide yet, but this is something we're working to address. We agree that there's a need for improvements to set bonuses for stamina builds.

awesome thanks for the feedback, glad to know us stamina builds have something to look forward to

In the meantime keep paying that sub fee for your broken character!

Sleepydan

Given stamina builds have the inherent mechanic of cc break and whatnot, I can see it needing a little something extra. Maybe it needs to have crafted set bonus in medium armor that are build enabling. Horizontal progression!

Fleymark

Was just thinking this same thing last night when making my new VR4 set.

So I went Hundings Rage. Just found out just now that the 5 piece bonus is broken.

Brilliant. Just brilliant. I'm doing my best to be patient as I have since pre release but still running into bugs and imbalances at every turn in a game that I'm paying monthly for one quarter of a year after release is getting very old very fast.

Valn

Can you provide details please