[Wall-Of-Text] Risk/Reward, Balance, Classes and Stamina

zazamalek

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

He used all CAPS, what does it take to get through to you?

Cupcakes. If he had presented his argument with cupcakes it would have stamped it with a 10/10 approval rating.

Nobody argues with people bearing cupcakes. Nobody.

dragnier

zazamalek wrote: »

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

He used all CAPS, what does it take to get through to you?

Cupcakes. If he had presented his argument with cupcakes it would have stamped it with a 10/10 approval rating.

Nobody argues with people bearing cupcakes. Nobody.

Unless they are allergic to gluten... or on a diet... or diabetic...

AND, if you fix all of those making it gluten free, fat free, and sugar free... you might as well eat cardboard so they'd probably still argue.

AlexDougherty

dragnier wrote: »

zazamalek wrote: »

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

He used all CAPS, what does it take to get through to you?

Cupcakes. If he had presented his argument with cupcakes it would have stamped it with a 10/10 approval rating.

Nobody argues with people bearing cupcakes. Nobody.

AND, if you fix all of those making it gluten free, fat free, and sugar free... you might as well eat cardboard so they'd probably still argue.

I have to diagree, I've tried gluten free snacks, cardboard is much much nicer.
It's totally unfair on cardboard to compare it to gluten free food.

Paladin_echo1

I see wolf hasn't responded to that comment about the presence of those skills. I bet he can't explain the reason why the set bonuses exist for many melee players either. Maybe they are just for show? Go look at the trial sets... Too bad stamina is poor at the moment.

jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO

I'm just going to just sneakily tag these guys @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ @ZOS_JessicaFolsom here as I think there are a lot of really good constructive points/suggestions about melee dps/class balance in this thread and I think it could be beneficial to the balance teams just as positive and constructive feedback

Would hate for a thread like this to be buried without being seen by the folks upstairs!

Audigy

TLDR; stamina builds should actually be the highest sustained DPS builds in the game, using stamina for DPS should continue to put the user at substantial risk.

Why is that so?

Why should someone who is using mana do automatically do low damage? Did I miss a secret MMO rule over the past 20 years?

In my opinion any MMO should have classes and specs which are different and have strengths and weakness. If you base classes and specs only about max dps like Blizzard does, then you will have a new OP class every few months until it must be nerfed again and a different class takes its place for a few months until the game starts from scratch again.

I also think that way too many people focus on DPS in MMO´s. There was a time at Ultima when the kill mattered and not how much DPS someone did. The whole idea that people can measure their own DPS and those of others has ruined a lot in MMO´s.

Gaming companies form classes not based on variety anymore, but on similarity so that the players are equally strong in theory. Truth however is, that no MMO is balanced and therefore every content patch ruins one class and buffs another, while we lose all variety over time.

Compare Vanilla WOW to MOP and you will understand that issue.


If you ask me, having a variety is what defines an MMO. It is fully ok that one class doesn't do as much DPS as another, but therefore can use a better CC or better buffs or is a better tank etc.

Last but not least I agree that Stamina is currently in a bad shape, as you run out of it way too fast, especially as a tank. There some fixes should be applied, as the current dodge and block system works totally fine for any range class, but melee´s always run out after a few seconds and are then sitting ducks.

jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO

Audigy wrote: »

TLDR; stamina builds should actually be the highest sustained DPS builds in the game, using stamina for DPS should continue to put the user at substantial risk.

Why is that so?

I think maybe he meant that given melee should need to disengage from bosses to avoid mechanics that casters don't that they should be able to do a higher dps so that at the end of a boss fight for example, both would roughly do the same total damage.

That is a difficult balancing act though and I lean more towards agreeing with you that their dps should be far more even

zazamalek

jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO wrote: »

I think maybe he meant that given melee should need to disengage from bosses to avoid mechanics that casters don't that they should be able to do a higher dps so that at the end of a boss fight for example, both would roughly do the same total damage.

Precisely. I explain it using risk/reward but it can also be explained in the way that the resource has a dual-purpose.

jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO wrote: »

That is a difficult balancing act though and I lean more towards agreeing with you that their dps should be far more even

I think once they do equal DPS I will need to re-evaluate my post: at the moment it's all theory because stamina does so little damage.

dafraorb16_ESO

SilverWF wrote: »

only stamina-using specs was not intended, so stop moan about this!

oh man you are too scared that ZOS will fix your OP Sorcerer light+staff

jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO

zazamalek wrote: »

jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO wrote: »

I think maybe he meant that given melee should need to disengage from bosses to avoid mechanics that casters don't that they should be able to do a higher dps so that at the end of a boss fight for example, both would roughly do the same total damage.

Precisely. I explain it using risk/reward but it can also be explained in the way that the resource has a dual-purpose.

jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO wrote: »

That is a difficult balancing act though and I lean more towards agreeing with you that their dps should be far more even

I think once they do equal DPS I will need to re-evaluate my post: at the moment it's all theory because stamina does so little damage.

Once again, loving your post man. If everyone wrote like this I'm sure the ZOS folks would have a much easier and more pleasant time reading through and taking suggestions from the community.

Bravo!