Nerfing is the kinda thing you do when your game is really popular and people can't stop playing.

GrimCyclone

Does anyone else feel it's a little dangerous for them to nerf like they have been when the level of hate and displeasure for this game is at a critical high? People have said "It's always like this with mmos." But we all know the loss in popularity and drop in subscriptions written all over the signatures of many regular posters here is real.

Some guy said there's a state of the game announcement or speech coming out soon. Outta curiosity, let's say I'm right. Let's say they are at a critical low for their game. Will they release it on consoles anyway just to see what happens? Do you think by failing it'll just go F2P and survive or do you think there's a chance of total failure and shutdown? I have no idea myself. I just know the hate and sub drop is real. It's not just talk.

It's just that these nerfs man... sometimes they feel like the last nail in the coffin for this game to some people. Anyone agree?

doggie

They nerf to balance the raids so players will not run with 12/12 DK with staffs and light armor.

The problem is that Joe the Average who does not have a optimal build and is just about getting around in the VR zones will be hit. Suddenly he goes from beeing able to kill stuff to die far too often.

There's quite a few average Joe's around. So that could push quite some players away ofcourse.

In other games how they've solved this problem is to give each class a special buff or ability. Class stacking is a problem in almost every mmorpg.

You have to wonder when they just reduce a skill's damage, what happens to the skill budget and total balance? Suddenly you have a skill that only uses 75% of the budget? hmm.

GrimCyclone

doggie wrote: »

The problem is that Joe the Average who does not have a optimal build and is just about getting around in the VR zones will be hit. Suddenly he goes from beeing able to kill stuff to die far too often.

There's quite a few average Joe's around. So that could push quite some players away of course.

Yep that's me. That's why it pisses me off.
I'm always getting nerfed and these leets that are causing it.

Nox_Aeterna

The problem is , the game needs nerfs and at the same time , people dont receive nerfs well.

They should have release the game with all classes being crappy , then buff/balance them from that point.

People would be happy to keep getting small buffs and the game would not be umbalanced.

Now they have OP crap like the DK and UP stuff like the templar , DKs will quit if they get too many nerfs , templars will quit if they cant be like the DKs , which is also a problem to zen because the overall game becomes to easy ...

They are doomed if they do , doomed if they dont.

Mablung

GrimCyclone wrote: »

doggie wrote: »

The problem is that Joe the Average who does not have a optimal build and is just about getting around in the VR zones will be hit. Suddenly he goes from beeing able to kill stuff to die far too often.

There's quite a few average Joe's around. So that could push quite some players away of course.

Yep that's me. That's why it pisses me off.
I'm always getting nerfed and these leets that are causing it.

I wish that I could find some hard statistics on numbers of endgamers at a certain point in a MMO release. I completely agree that those who get to end game so quickly are the one that cause the most harm to the life of MMOs.

The number has to be >75% of subs for developers to bow down to their cries of displeasure and needs.

GrimCyclone

I'll be honest guys. I'm gonna finish out VR++. I'm VR7 and I've got two or three maps left. But after that I'm probably just going to go back to SWTOR. I'm not saying I hate the game, but it's no where near as fun as SWTOR is as a soloer/casual pvper. At least for me.

This will be a game I check out again later on though.

But yeah I'm one of those who doesn't take nerfs well.
SWTOR never nerfed me like this. Not that I can remember.
I remember anger. I don't remember getting angry with them.
It's like they're taking something away from little old me.
I wasn't doing anything wrong anyway

Dayv

They say themselves, that console is 6 months away. In all honesty I don't think the difficulty gradient from normal to VR can be considered suitable for console the way it is now. I couldn't hack VR without any addons to give me a bit more info than the vanilla HUD, especially ability timers.

Mablung

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

The problem is , the game needs nerfs and at the same time , people dont receive nerfs well.

They should have release the game with all classes being crappy , then buff/balance them from that point.

People would be happy to keep getting small buffs and the game would not be umbalanced.

Now they have OP crap like the DK and UP stuff like the templar , DKs will quit if they get too many nerfs , templars will quit if they cant be like the DKs , which is also a problem to zen because the overall game becomes to easy ...

They are doomed if they do , doomed if they dont.

The best way to do it would have been to make players too powerful and then tone down from there as opposed to what you suggest. People stay if they are having success (easy or perceived to be easy). They leave when it gets a little difficult. This is why you saw everyone going nuts with Patch 1.1.2 mob difficulty 'bug'.

I seriously doubt it was a bug and they thought hey, lets give it a try. It failed. Now if we were all super powerful like your standard level 50 in any TES game, many might have accepted the challenge and changes to come from that point but we were not and will not ever be there.

Ultimately it comes down to poor project management and design.

anakaki

GrimCyclone wrote: »

Does anyone else feel it's a little dangerous for them to nerf like they have been when the level of hate and displeasure for this game is at a critical high? People have said "It's always like this with mmos." But we all know the loss in popularity and drop in subscriptions written all over the signatures of many regular posters here is real.

Some guy said there's a state of the game announcement or speech coming out soon. Outta curiosity, let's say I'm right. Let's say they are at a critical low for their game. Will they release it on consoles anyway just to see what happens? Do you think by failing it'll just go F2P and survive or do you think there's a chance of total failure and shutdown? I have no idea myself. I just know the hate and sub drop is real. It's not just talk.

It's just that these nerfs man... sometimes they feel like the last nail in the coffin for this game to some people. Anyone agree?

On the contrary, you nerf to balance/improve the game. People that leave because of nerfs are children. Others that leave due to the fact that we are beta testing their finsihed game I understand completly.

GrimCyclone

anakaki wrote: »

On the contrary, you nerf to balance/improve the game. People that leave because of nerfs are children. Others that leave due to the fact that we are beta testing their finsihed game I understand completly.

It's not all due to the nerfs. But bro.. I'd gladly be called a child and move on to something I like better. Problem is, there's a lot of children leaving. Again SWTOR never nerfed me like this to the point where it pissed me off. So that's why I'm probably going to go back.

I see what you're saying, but it still pisses me off. Whatever though. I'm a child. Hey, I can live with that.

Mablung

anakaki wrote: »

GrimCyclone wrote: »

Does anyone else feel it's a little dangerous for them to nerf like they have been when the level of hate and displeasure for this game is at a critical high? People have said "It's always like this with mmos." But we all know the loss in popularity and drop in subscriptions written all over the signatures of many regular posters here is real.

Some guy said there's a state of the game announcement or speech coming out soon. Outta curiosity, let's say I'm right. Let's say they are at a critical low for their game. Will they release it on consoles anyway just to see what happens? Do you think by failing it'll just go F2P and survive or do you think there's a chance of total failure and shutdown? I have no idea myself. I just know the hate and sub drop is real. It's not just talk.

It's just that these nerfs man... sometimes they feel like the last nail in the coffin for this game to some people. Anyone agree?

On the contrary, you nerf to balance/improve the game. People that leave because of nerfs are children. Others that leave due to the fact that we are beta testing their finsihed game I understand completly.

That would work if minor improvements needed to be made to the classes. This game needs major improvements since the disparity in ability and what specific classes bring to the table is huge. Nerfing under performing classes is not what this game needs. Having a well designed class system in the first place for both PvE and PvP is what this game needed and since it did not, these fixes and nerfs are what we will see for a long, long time.

P.S. Ease up on the labeling and name calling.

driosketch

Your title sounds counterintuitive. Wouldn't nerfing at the height of a game's popularity bust long used metas and *** players off? Where as waiting to balance due to wide spread dissatisfaction would only compound that negativity.

anakaki

GrimCyclone wrote: »

anakaki wrote: »

On the contrary, you nerf to balance/improve the game. People that leave because of nerfs are children. Others that leave due to the fact that we are beta testing their finsihed game I understand completly.

It's not all due to the nerfs. But bro.. I'd gladly be called a child and move on to something I like better. Problem is, there's a lot of children leaving. Again SWTOR never nerfed me like this to the point where it pissed me off. So that's why I'm probably going to go back.

I see what you're saying, but it still pisses me off. Whatever though. I'm a child. Hey, I can live with that.

I understand the frustration. I played SWOTR too and I see your point. But this is the price for rushing an unfinished release.

Had they finished it, you'd be non-thewiser to these nerfs/fixes as it would never had hit the market in the first place.

Syzmicke

I just wish once in awhile that people ask for buff's to class's they think are week and not ask for nurf's to class's that are in a good place.

crislevin

would be good to know some sales number for sure.

GrimCyclone

driosketch wrote: »

Your title sounds counterintuitive. Wouldn't nerfing at the height of a game's popularity bust long used metas and *** players off? Where as waiting to balance due to wide spread dissatisfaction would only compound that negativity.

You'd think so right? But I've personally witnessed this in EQ and EQ2. People just moaned, whined, maybe 5% quit or rerolled. The biggest nerf in EQ was the aoe range and mobs/per hit they did to bards. I was bard when it happened. lol. But hey... in THAT particular instance, I knew I was doing something that was a bit crazy. In this game? lol.. no. The nerfs they're giving me seem stupid. We're not overpowered. Maybe the leets are that know all the cool tips and tricks, but not little old me. Hell, I'm too lazy to even research what fotm is. I just found out what fotm meant due to these boards. I'm a soloer. If I hear about how to be leet, it's because someone in chat mentioned it. I don't go all Kripparrian on these games. I just try to play them naturally and make decent decisions.

GrimCyclone

anakaki wrote: »

I understand the frustration. I played SWTOR too and I see your point. But this is the price for rushing an unfinished release.

Had they finished it, you'd be non-thewiser to these nerfs/fixes as it would never had hit the market in the first place.

Just for the SWTOR comment and understanding I love you.
That is all. I love you.

And yeah, I'm being childish, but look guys.. I just don't like indian giving.
I wasn't that overpowered. I probably had the potential to be.
All these damn nerfs really have effected me visually.
It's like.. "thanks... I can't do this anymore."
Oh you got me again. "thanks, now I can't do that anymore either."

I'm left with a feeling of blandness and a lack of vitality.
I don't know. It's just not pleasant.

Hey... maybe I'll get over it.

GrimCyclone

crislevin wrote: »

would be good to know some sales number for sure.

I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money that whatever their sales numbers are? They are 75% less than they where they wanted to be after the exodus. I can't give you any numbers, but I have a strong feeling on that 1/4 what they wanted to be. I say 1/4 because it seems lower than 1/2.. and well maybe 1/3 but naah.. I'm really saying 1/4. People are pissed. These forums show it.

Mablung

GrimCyclone wrote: »

anakaki wrote: »

I understand the frustration. I played SWTOR too and I see your point. But this is the price for rushing an unfinished release.

Had they finished it, you'd be non-thewiser to these nerfs/fixes as it would never had hit the market in the first place.

Just for the SWTOR comment and understanding I love you.
That is all. I love you.

And yeah, I'm being childish, but look guys.. I just don't like indian giving.
I wasn't that overpowered. I probably had the potential to be.
All these damn nerfs really have effected me visually.
It's like.. "thanks... I can't do this anymore."
Oh you got me again. "thanks, now I can't do that anymore either."

I'm left with a feeling of blandness and a lack of vitality.
I don't know. It's just not pleasant.

Hey... maybe I'll get over it.

I played a Jedi Consular and there were some minor nerfs to that class and to the healer Bounty Hunters that I remember but nothing class breaking, they were to bring them more in line with others and it definitely helped brings things into a more competitive level .

GrimCyclone

Mablung wrote: »

I played a Jedi Consular and there were some minor nerfs to that class and to the healer Bounty Hunters that I remember but nothing class breaking, they were to bring them more in line with others and it definitely helped brings things into a more competitive level .

Yeah I do remember them hitting Consulars and my sage took a bit of a nerf, but I was using telekinetics at the time and I was still healing great in pvp. And even the nerf to snipers in pvp really didn't change me. I had full conqueror's gear and was still tearing through people.

Blade_07

I agree completely. Taking something away that players like is just another disappointment they will add to other many disappointments they already have. Simply just gives people all the more reason to cut their losses and quit. lol, keep up the great job Zenimax.

Phantorang

This is just QQs, why the need to come here and tell us that you are going back to swtor? Why not just go back?

Because bla bla bla, more QQs...

GrimCyclone

Phantorang wrote: »

This is just QQs, why the need to come here and tell us that you are going back to swtor? Why not just go back?

Because bla bla bla, more QQs...

You draw my tears so well<3
Thank you *hugs*

Maverick827

Phantorang wrote: »

This is just QQs, why the need to come here and tell us that you are going back to swtor? Why not just go back?

Because bla bla bla, more QQs...

Why come in here and QQ about the QQ?

Have fun in your empty game with this attitude.

GrimCyclone

Maverick827 wrote: »

Phantorang wrote: »

This is just QQs, why the need to come here and tell us that you are going back to swtor? Why not just go back?

Because bla bla bla, more QQs...

Why come in here and QQ about the QQ?

Have fun in your empty game with this attitude.

QQ about the QQ lolol. I don't know why but that made me laugh.
I need to sleep. I'm high on being too damn tired.

Gokmak

f2p in a few months, but still won't survive... most guilds and friends lists have lost most players, and getting worse.

WE NEED MORE NERFS!!! That will fix things LOL

Oh, and calling people children for complaining when their build has been rendered USELESS... yeah... that will help too. Good Job.

GrimCyclone

Gokmak wrote: »

f2p in a few months, but still won't survive... most guilds and friends lists have lost most players, and getting worse.

WE NEED MORE NERFS!!! That will fix things LOL

Oh, and calling people children for complaining when their build has been rendered USELESS... yeah... that will help too. Good Job.

Yeah! This was one of the evidence pieces I forgot to mention and it's why my feeling on the bad sales is probably true.

Friend's list totally dead now. Guilds dead. People have been talking about this way more than usual. And a few times people have mentioned how scary it is in the game. You usually hear a lot of talk in the beginning zones about this if you're banking or feeding your horse. I always go back to Auridon to feed my horses.

Swordguy

Trolling is the kind of thing you do in General Forum section, where developers avoid

that being said, the nerfs in this game are result of hardcore min-maxer's complaining/causing problems for casuals in pvp. At the end of the day, its not the developers that need a slap in the head, its whoever is directing this game and leading the teams. end of story... I predict big roster changes in the next 6 months at Zenimax. I've seen it many times before, and it will surely happen again until someone with a "feel" for what the majority wants is given the captains chair, or the fat cats make the f2p call. one will happen, I hope its the first.

Genada

ESO knows hot to balance the game, just as this man knows his ship:

xaraan

No, nerfing needs to be done when it's needed. If you don't nerf a power that is doing too much damage, then it will always do too much damage, even if you buff other skills. Unless you also buff all of the health of players in addition, then it will still be killing people faster than intended for balance. Making every other class have powers that also almost instantly kill things is not the best way to fix it. Not to say every nerf or buff they are doing is right, but the players saying they should only be buffing are a bit off.

Syzmicke

What about nerfing some NPC's that hit for crazy amounts instead of making it 3 times harder to play.Getting 2 hit from npc's is not fun when your class has skill lines broken is just not fun.

And another thing why have "Overcharged Stats" how can i "play as you want" when they are restricting you i mean if i want to tank with 4K HP let me ffs or i want to stack magicka let me.