AvE campaign/setting in Cyrodiil

Streega

Gisgo wrote: »

Streega wrote: »

Yep, you are a thug. If you were RP'er or a real soldier you would know that engaging in combat is the last option when you can avoid it. War isn't cheap, you know.

How does this make any sense?

*sigh* Let me quote:

“Who wishes to fight must first count the cost. (...) The wise warrior avoids the battle.”
“Hence to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.”

― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

I've had this kind of discussion many times before and I know it's poinless, so please don't respond. It has nothing to do with RP or me being afraid, it's just something a cannon fodder would never understand: I don't kill only because I can.

Gisgo

Oh and here we go quoting Sun Tzu... it didnt take long.

I think you are forgetting one thing: we are speaking about Cyrodiil.
Cyrodiil is a PvP area of a videogame, a place where you are supposed to kill and get killed by other players, and to have fun while doing so.
If you dont, there is a whole continent available to you.

Avoiding the enemy and all your blah blah about Sun Tzu does not make any sense, this isnt real life.

But by all means, if you are too sensitive to be killed in a videogame, stay away from Cyrodiil, because i dont want to have to feel guilty for playing a game. Thanks a lot.

And Sun Tzu is waaaaaaaaay overrated.
In fact quoting Sun Tzu shows you have no clue about strategy, but this is a different topic.

Streega

Whatever, meat. I have a follower of Sun Tzu winning a real war nearby - tell him he has no clue, maybe he'll say sorry and take his thugs away. Anyway, EOT for me. Have "fun" in Cyrodill.

Gisgo

I will, say hi to Rambo.

sylviermoone

Well......that went in an unexpected direction......

TicToc

Eorea wrote: »

The point of the post is that I don't want to be locked out of a full quarter of the game just because I'm level 36 and everyone else is level VR12. You didn't get to VR12 by PvPing, that's for sure.

The problem is, you have not even tried. In my 20's I picked up most of the skyshards, gathered many resources, completed many quest, and gained good amounts of XP and alliance points. There is absolutely no reason that you can't explore. Cyrodiil is a big place. You can travel great distances and never see an enemy player. Plus you have the ability to sneak, just like anyone else.

If you want to RP, pretend that you are a spy doing covert missions. If you get caught, you'll be killed, so you do your best to not get killed. It adds a whole lot more tension to the experience when you might actually be killed. Or does your RPing only involve talking about it rather than experiencing it?

You can do quite a bit of exploring on your own. And getting killed is not all that bad. It may even help you travel to certain places much quicker.

I think it would be a little unfair to allow you to do quests, gather resources, collect skyshards, and run dungeons in a completely safe manner when everyone else has to risk getting ganked. That would pull a lot of people from PvP so that they can also do that completely unhindered. I just can't see Zenimax doing that.

Pick a low population campaign, or one that your faction is dominating, and get out there and explore.

Streega

TicToc wrote: »

Eorea wrote: »

The point of the post is that I don't want to be locked out of a full quarter of the game just because I'm level 36 and everyone else is level VR12. You didn't get to VR12 by PvPing, that's for sure.

The problem is, you have not even tried. In my 20's I picked up most of the skyshards, gathered many resources, completed many quest, and gained good amounts of XP and alliance points. There is absolutely no reason that you can't explore. Cyrodiil is a big place. You can travel great distances and never see an enemy player. Plus you have the ability to sneak, just like anyone else.

[snip]

I think it would be a little unfair to allow you to do quests, gather resources, collect skyshards, and run dungeons in a completely safe manner when everyone else has to risk getting ganked. That would pull a lot of people from PvP so that they can also do that completely unhindered. I just can't see Zenimax doing that.

Pick a low population campaign, or one that your faction is dominating, and get out there and explore.

I agree (mostly), but what is unfair? If I could do stuff in a safe manner, so would everybody else. My point is... oh well, nevermind. I know it won't happen, so I'll just keep sneaking Thanks for the tips, guys, I'll try them.

Eorea

Commiseration is what I wanted, but instead I largely got what I expected :P At least you dispassionate PvPers were relatively civil about it, which is surprising.

I RP with people. Not at people. I cannot RP with someone I cannot communicate with. Group doesn't count. Private tell doesn't count. That is out of character communication. I am not RPing with you just because you are in the world with me. You know nothing about my character, nothing about my character's reasons for being where they are, nothing about the fact I'd rather be looking at mudcrabs than your uberleet spells as you throw them at me and force me to spend several minutes attempting to return to that spot I saw those mudcrabs and where you're probably waiting anyway to do it again. Alternately, I know nothing about yours, so you may as well not exist. In fact, I can choose to act as if you do not exist. Except when you're killing me, but that's beyond the point

I want to be able to hang out in Cyrodiil with my other PvE friends without worrying about some jerk with a superiority complex busting in to our remote, quiet RP spot with four or five friends (or alone, because face it, VR12 steamroll ganking is all the rage) and wrecking the entire story we had going because they don't give a damn that we were RPing, only that we were faceless players in the zone they get especially for themselves on top of all the PvE zones as well.

It's not something I can make you PvPers understand. You never will. The solution is not to "pretend I'm on a covert spy mission" because not only is it not fun to Rp alone and silent without any emotes at all, anyone as high above my level as a VR- even with the boost- can detect me instantly no matter how much I sneak or how many points into my Khajiit passives I have sunk. I did at least find a few people in this thread I might contact for friends once the private messaging system reactivates. Effin' spammers ruining everything. Are there spammers in Cyrodiil, too? I dearly hope you all can escape them there... I've heard about wall hacking, etc... but again, I digress...

There was one thing I did like hidden in these comments somewhere. If they boosted all of us to about VR5, it might at least make a big enough competitive difference to quell my intense, burning hatred of PvP and my worries about being unable to defend myself should I and a buddy be found minding our own business, bothering nobody, eating bread and chicken legs in those supposed abandoned houses nobody ever checks but totally do because you know about them...

Legitimate question, is it actually true that opposing factions can't so much as see a custom emote from one another? Because if we can be tracked down by "hearing", then no amount of hiding will help.

HandofBane

@Eorea‌
I spent much of my last several years in WoW in/running a RP guild, during and before that, I was a fairly rabid PvPer. Going into the guild, I managed to get a good portion of the members to give PvP a chance, though it was a serious uphill struggle during the early attempts because of fighting the prejudices and preconceptions held by the RPers - which you are showing in your own views here in the last post.

At least you dispassionate PvPers were relatively civil about it, which is surprising.
...
I want to be able to hang out in Cyrodiil with my other PvE friends without worrying about some jerk with a superiority complex busting in to our remote, quiet RP spot with four or five friends (or alone, because face it, VR12 steamroll ganking is all the rage) and wrecking the entire story we had going because they don't give a damn that we were RPing, only that we were faceless players in the zone they get especially for themselves on top of all the PvE zones as well.
...
It's not something I can make you PvPers understand. You never will.

Not blaming you personally for holding those opinions, I know quite a few of my fellow PvPers are not the greatest of welcoming committees to introduce folks to learning how to adapt to PvP situations when they become unavoidable. But realizing that you let yourself hold that view is a fairly important step in getting a change of perspective to be able to make the most of, and get the most out of, having fun in the PvP zones while still being able to pull off some RP.

A few simple things to start you can try - you say "being on a spy mission" alone is not conducive to RPing? Then bring a friend, both of you pick up scouting missions off the board in your home camp, and you have each now been issued orders from your faction to help aid the war effort by sneaking behind enemy lines. Now both of you are doing your part, watching out for each other, and generally trying to avoid getting jumped by the enemy to accomplish your mission, which is vital for your faction's success.

You get a group of people together and find a quiet spot to RP, but some enemy players find you and charge on in spells blazing? Adapt and account for it in your own storytelling efforts - after all, you are meeting in what you hope is a secure location deep inside a known warzone. At any time the enemy could find you and try to do their part because you are likely (from their viewpoint) there to spy on them, or planning a surprise attack. That is an important part of RPing - even without PvP involved - being able to adapt a story to things that pop up, as well as being able to work *in character* to find ways to ignore or work around the non-RPers in the area. You are an RPer? Then you know and have already dealt with people in safe areas coming up and intentionally interfering with planned scenes/events - the only difference here is some of you may need to come back from a wayshrine should you fail to repel an attack.

As far as the opposing factions go - to my knowledge enemy emotes cannot be seen at all, chat cannot either, so you should be safe from giving away your location that way if you are inside a building/cave/etc. If you are still worried about such, you can always shift all your chat to group, and just flag your emotes with * * or something similar, though it shouldn't be necessary.

Gisgo

Eorea wrote: »

I want to be able to hang out in Cyrodiil with my other PvE friends without worrying about some jerk with a superiority complex busting in to our remote, quiet RP spot with four or five friends (or alone, because face it, VR12 steamroll ganking is all the rage) and wrecking the entire story we had going because they don't give a damn that we were RPing, only that we were faceless players in the zone they get especially for themselves on top of all the PvE zones as well.

Are you still pretending you are RPing?
You arent RPing, if you were RPing you would accept the war as a fact instead of "hanging out" in a warzone like it was your backyard garden.
Everything you are asking is out of character, against the lore and anti climax.
Asking the game master to modify the rules to fit your very personal view of the game is about the most anti RP thing you can do.

Again, just be honest, say that you dont like to be ganked, you wouldnt be the first; but do not use roleplaying as an excuse.

Polyscikosis

Streega wrote: »

Gisgo wrote: »

Your point being?
Enemies are enemies.
If you have a yellow/red shield on your head and i can kill you i will, or die trying.
Now argue that im not RPing correctly.

Yep, you are a thug. If you were RP'er or a real soldier you would know that engaging in combat is the last option when you can avoid it. War isn't cheap, you know.

EDIT: spelling and stuff

that it the stupidist thing I have EVER heard...

Navy SEALS in the middle east dont say "lets try to avoid those enemy combatants that are in our patrol path"....

they KILL them.... DEAD... GANK STYLE.

this whole RP'ing a WAR is asinine at best

Vendersleigh

HandofBane wrote: »

@Eorea‌
I spent much of my last several years in WoW in/running a RP guild, during and before that, I was a fairly rabid PvPer. Going into the guild, I managed to get a good portion of the members to give PvP a chance, though it was a serious uphill struggle during the early attempts because of fighting the prejudices and preconceptions held by the RPers - which you are showing in your own views here in the last post.

At least you dispassionate PvPers were relatively civil about it, which is surprising.
...
I want to be able to hang out in Cyrodiil with my other PvE friends without worrying about some jerk with a superiority complex busting in to our remote, quiet RP spot with four or five friends (or alone, because face it, VR12 steamroll ganking is all the rage) and wrecking the entire story we had going because they don't give a damn that we were RPing, only that we were faceless players in the zone they get especially for themselves on top of all the PvE zones as well.
...
It's not something I can make you PvPers understand. You never will.

Not blaming you personally for holding those opinions, I know quite a few of my fellow PvPers are not the greatest of welcoming committees to introduce folks to learning how to adapt to PvP situations when they become unavoidable. But realizing that you let yourself hold that view is a fairly important step in getting a change of perspective to be able to make the most of, and get the most out of, having fun in the PvP zones while still being able to pull off some RP.

A few simple things to start you can try - you say "being on a spy mission" alone is not conducive to RPing? Then bring a friend, both of you pick up scouting missions off the board in your home camp, and you have each now been issued orders from your faction to help aid the war effort by sneaking behind enemy lines. Now both of you are doing your part, watching out for each other, and generally trying to avoid getting jumped by the enemy to accomplish your mission, which is vital for your faction's success.

You get a group of people together and find a quiet spot to RP, but some enemy players find you and charge on in spells blazing? Adapt and account for it in your own storytelling efforts - after all, you are meeting in what you hope is a secure location deep inside a known warzone. At any time the enemy could find you and try to do their part because you are likely (from their viewpoint) there to spy on them, or planning a surprise attack. That is an important part of RPing - even without PvP involved - being able to adapt a story to things that pop up, as well as being able to work *in character* to find ways to ignore or work around the non-RPers in the area. You are an RPer? Then you know and have already dealt with people in safe areas coming up and intentionally interfering with planned scenes/events - the only difference here is some of you may need to come back from a wayshrine should you fail to repel an attack.

As far as the opposing factions go - to my knowledge enemy emotes cannot be seen at all, chat cannot either, so you should be safe from giving away your location that way if you are inside a building/cave/etc. If you are still worried about such, you can always shift all your chat to group, and just flag your emotes with * * or something similar, though it shouldn't be necessary.

This is good advice.

And I have checked (by going to Cyrodil at the same time as a guildee from an opposing faction and finally locating each other, via guildchat), chat cannot be seen at all by anyone outside your faction.

I am an avid rper and I have seen most of Cyrodiil by heading there at quieter times. So far only for the skyshards and exploring but eventually I shall return for the quests and likely some RPPvP.


RP has to be fluid. If one is interrupted in a PvE area then yes one can ignore the intruders (especially if they are not acting very much in character). But if one is interrupted in a PvP area then think about it, one is there in the middle of the war and must expect attack. Cyrodiil is not the place for static stories that do not allow for the (hostile) existence of others.

Vendersleigh

joshisanonymous wrote: »

Some tips:
On a side note, I am curious about RPPvP, and just RP in general, though. I've never RPed but I have an RP guild that I've yet to actually play with because I was busy leveling and thinking up a story for my character. My concept of RPing was that you literally play the game as usual, but everything you say and do is informed by the character you've made up. So, if you're PvPing ICly, you'd literally PvP but your speech and such would by that of your character, pretty much as Gisgo described it. But you're saying that's not how it's supposed to work, and I've heard of RPers setting up staged PvP that sounds more like a war re-enacted than just playing the game ICly. My guild also seems to RP almost exlusively at one tavern instead of going through PvE content ICly. Is this actually how it's supposed to work? Seems.. odd, to take the game out of the game to RP when it seems like you can play and RP at the same time. Honestly curious about this.

Edit: Also, for what it's worth, in NA, Skull Crusher is the unofficial RP campaign and is completely owned by AD almost 24/7. That might work for you if you're AD. I know a lot of RPers were trying to get everyone to change it to Volendrung, too, so there might be a lot of like-minded players there. I think AD owns that map, too.

There is no one correct way to rp.
There is a range of rp styles, including the following:

A. There are a few elements of the game world that one has to/one can ignore (eg. a lot of roleplayers do not incorporate the main quest Vestige story into their character's story) but in general some characters are actually doing the things they are doing when their players are playing the game.

B. However, some people create innkeepers, teachers, drunken bums and a whole variety of other civilians who do not (in character) go out into the world, divorcing their gameplay from the lives of their characters. Thus the only rp they tend to do is more at taverns and other quiet places.

C. Then there are those that create scenarios for themselves and others about them to play through (or even set up stories solely for others, effectively playing a Gamesmaster-type role).

D. Then there is RP-PvPing, where one is a hero/soldier/lowly conscript actually out there participating in the war. This can to an extent include player-created stories or scenarios set in Cyrodiil, usually by communication out of game between guilds on opposing sides that are both interested in exploring this aspect of the game.


You may find teso-rp.com an interesting site, especially for the listing of rp events there (and perhaps to find an rp guild that is more your style (A)).
I dip into all styles at some point, though I tend to lean to A more than the others.

Vendersleigh

Eorea wrote: »

Commiseration is what I wanted, but instead I largely got what I expected :P At least you dispassionate PvPers were relatively civil about it, which is surprising.

I RP with people. Not at people. I cannot RP with someone I cannot communicate with. Group doesn't count. Private tell doesn't count. That is out of character communication. I am not RPing with you just because you are in the world with me. You know nothing about my character, nothing about my character's reasons for being where they are, nothing about the fact I'd rather be looking at mudcrabs than your uberleet spells as you throw them at me and force me to spend several minutes attempting to return to that spot I saw those mudcrabs and where you're probably waiting anyway to do it again. Alternately, I know nothing about yours, so you may as well not exist. In fact, I can choose to act as if you do not exist. Except when you're killing me, but that's beyond the point

I want to be able to hang out in Cyrodiil with my other PvE friends without worrying about some jerk with a superiority complex busting in to our remote, quiet RP spot with four or five friends (or alone, because face it, VR12 steamroll ganking is all the rage) and wrecking the entire story we had going because they don't give a damn that we were RPing, only that we were faceless players in the zone they get especially for themselves on top of all the PvE zones as well.

It's not something I can make you PvPers understand. You never will. The solution is not to "pretend I'm on a covert spy mission" because not only is it not fun to Rp alone and silent without any emotes at all, anyone as high above my level as a VR- even with the boost- can detect me instantly no matter how much I sneak or how many points into my Khajiit passives I have sunk. I did at least find a few people in this thread I might contact for friends once the private messaging system reactivates. Effin' spammers ruining everything. Are there spammers in Cyrodiil, too? I dearly hope you all can escape them there... I've heard about wall hacking, etc... but again, I digress...

There was one thing I did like hidden in these comments somewhere. If they boosted all of us to about VR5, it might at least make a big enough competitive difference to quell my intense, burning hatred of PvP and my worries about being unable to defend myself should I and a buddy be found minding our own business, bothering nobody, eating bread and chicken legs in those supposed abandoned houses nobody ever checks but totally do because you know about them...

Legitimate question, is it actually true that opposing factions can't so much as see a custom emote from one another? Because if we can be tracked down by "hearing", then no amount of hiding will help.

Correct, your custom emotes cannot be seen by others.

Remember that there is no hard division between RPers and PvPers. Mostly I am the former but I do participate in RP-PvP on occasion (and being ambushed involuntarily).
And remember also that in war, the opposition ARE mostly faceless, in fact encouraged often not to be seen even as fully human. Thus though it is not fun to be interrupted, it can be very much in character for enemy soldiers to attack.
RP is interaction. It is not always nice interaction and to expect a story to play out exactly as planned/desired by the original participants is wholly unrealistic in an area which ICly is a warzone.

If you want to rp there, and I do myself, then go at quieter times and plan for interruptions. I have only been attacked 8 times while collecting the Cyrodiil aboveground skyshards on 6 different characters so it is do-able.

Dayv

I agree with the 100% with the OP. I like PvP battles, but mixing PvP with PvE objectives just isn't to my taste.